Too Many No Down State Events Is Bad For WvW

[HazyDaisy.4107]

I don't care, I'd just suggest when they take away O.N. pips, subsequent events should also grant +X number pips in addition to other bonuses.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Hogwash! No-downed-state is the only time in wvw where huge blobs can actually be countered and defeated! I've said it before, those that complain the most are part of those same blobs. To this day, no-downed-state is the ONLY counter against the boon-barrier scourge/FB/rev/scrapper juggernauts.

You still need to deal quite large amount of damage to kill something in blob fights through barriers and boons one way or another.
You still need coordinated bombs to kill something.
Nothing much changed in that regard, where is here a "counter"??
Stealth and cheese lovers will have more advantage, but that's about it.

[JTGuevara.9018]

23 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You still need to deal quite large amount of damage to kill something in blob fights through barriers and boons one way or another.
You still need coordinated bombs to kill something.
Nothing much changed in that regard, where is here a "counter"??
Stealth and cheese lovers will have more advantage, but that's about it.

 

You don't need coordinated bombs. If anything, a typical AoE bomb is more risky to execute in this environment. If people mess up a bomb, they are basically sitting ducks. They are vulnerable to anything at that point: either a counter bomb or smaller groups picking them off. With support-heavy groups and zergs, people can simply spread out and wear them down one by one by applying pressure and forcing cooldowns. You can essentially chip away at it and it will slowly crumble. Another side effect of chipping away at the zerg is that it is slowed down. With dead enemies, zergs have to either go OOC to resurrect teammates or simply move on with less numbers. A big strength of support-heavy groups is resurrection and cleave prevention, which will be completely taken away here and made irrelevant. The typical support-heavy groups are fighting an uphill battle here.

[Malus.2184]

1 hour ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

With support-heavy groups and zergs, people can simply spread out and wear them down one by one by applying pressure and forcing cooldowns. You can essentially chip away at it and it will slowly crumble.

This is tactical gameplay.

1 hour ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

You can essentially chip away at it and it will slowly crumble.

This is stategic gameplay.

Any PvP environment should always be about tactical gameplay while strategies are laid beforehand. If PvP of any kind is based on strategic gameplay when the PvP will fail as those who have a strategic advantage will win if both sides have an average performance.

WoW's PvP is heavily based on strategic gameplay since you'll lose to some classes by default unless the player plays them extremely bad.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Malus.2184

[saerni.2584]

With or without downstate the strategy is "whittle down a larger opponent until the odds are better." 
 

No downstate is a refreshing reminder that in large scale PvP you only need to do "enough" damage to finish an opponent. It's more clear when that amount is smaller so you don't need as many people to pull it off.

 

Normally, in a 20v40 the 20 can still win because 20 people can focus a down well enough even with the 40 there. Same with 25 v 50 because the AoE is still enough to secure kills. 
 

But, in a 10 v 20 it gets more difficult because the 10 doesn't have enough focus damage to overcome the downstate mechanic itself. So, unless the 20 really messed up that is where it ends for the 10. They either run away or get mowed down. 
 

What no downstate brings is more flexibility at the low end. No one should notice at the large scale end because the mechanics matter less at that level. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Quick question: what constitutes "too many"?  I mean, we get these once every few months.  That's not a lot. 

Personally I like these weekends, because it makes fighting 1v2 and 1v3 easier.  Biggest problem I have with being outnumbered on normal days is that you can't just win the fight.  You have to win it by a large margin, otherwise you won't have the DPS to threaten rezzers from reviving right in your face.  Or, barring that, you won't have the health to survive the pressure needed to focus down a body under a bunch of AoE attacks.  On these weekends, there's a finality to combat.  If I managed to zero someone out, they're gone, and I can turn my attention elsewhere.  

[Junkpile.7439]

We need no downed state +no ress dead week. So lame when you one shot enemy in blob and they just ress him because it's hard to keep 30 enemies in combat alone.

[Simonoly.4352]

Yeah it does trivialise the combat mechanics of the game and makes it incredibly easy to sequentially murder a group with no real thought required. However, it does level the playing field for the roaming scene by making it simpler for inexperienced players to succeed - especially in 1vX scenarios where they aren't experienced enough yet to secure stomps.

Regardless, it's just a short, silly event so best to just dust off your most obnoxious DPS builds and mindlessly pop people. If you're into condi, I recommend bumping up your expertise for all those hilarious moments where someone flees into a tower and just dies before a cleanse is available - priceless.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Simonoly.4352

[Zizou.2358]

OP is just an Ele main. Lulw

No downstate adds a lot of fun in WvW.

[phokus.8934]

If you die in wvw you die in real life.  That’s how the anti-downers sound like.

[ollbirtan.2915]

No Downstate doesn't belong in gw2 - it goes against the games very core.  Period. 

[Morwath.9817]

37 minutes ago, ollbirtan.2915 said:

No Downstate doesn't belong in gw2 - it goes against the games very core.  Period. 

If promoting zerging is very core feature, then yes.

[ollbirtan.2915]

7 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

If promoting zerging is very core feature, then yes.

Not sure what you mean ---- I am against zerg mentality,actually. 

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

Eliminating the downstate is by players who don't want to or can't figure out how to manage a player once they  get them down.  The funny part is they claim its their 'skill' that's being diluted by a feature of the game.  Skilled players manage the whole fight. People who think they're skilled are looking to have part of the fight removed. 

[Morwath.9817]

1 hour ago, ollbirtan.2915 said:

Not sure what you mean ---- I am against zerg mentality,actually. 

 

When you down a guy in 1v1, downstate doesn't matters.

When you down a guy in 2v2, downstate doesn't matters, because you still have 2 people cleaving on body.

When you down a guy in 5vs20, downstate means you won't be able to finish guy and extra bodies will not only soak damage, but also revive them without any problems.

[Jaruselka.5943]

I like no-downstate events because it increases the pace of gameplay. If I get killed I can immediately respawn instead of waiting around to bleed out (I main an engineer). 

[Zyreva.1078]

28 minutes ago, Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

Eliminating the downstate is by players who don't want to or can't figure out how to manage a player once they  get them down.  The funny part is they claim its their 'skill' that's being diluted by a feature of the game.  Skilled players manage the whole fight. People who think they're skilled are looking to have part of the fight removed. 

That's because when outnumbered downstate is sometimes straight up impossible to deal with. The tools just aren't there after everything BUT downstate/revive has been nerfed quite significantly.

[LionZero.3479]

No Ds-weeks are awesome, ever since the damage shave downed hp and mechanics didn't really change along with it.

 

Outmanned fights are a lot more enjoyable again like this, and that's a good thing cause balance in wvwvw is never equal, giving the outmanned side a fighting chance by removing players from the field ensures they got a chance at defending vs numbers that otherwise would permares cause there simply is a hard stat-check these days to contest a downed when outmanned.

[Zikory.6871]

Y'all should just take advantage of all the XP bonuses they are throwing at us lately. Everybody complaining about pips and what not, I've already gained 15 ranks in 2 nights. 

[Xenesis.6389]

Not much point going hardcore on ranks past 1226 ranks for mastery, or 1395 before the spread between pip ranks become large and would require multiple events to participate in to make dents into it.

I have like another 1.2k ranks to go for my next pip.. lol.

[Gibson.4036]

Too Dark; Didn’t Read

[bigo.9037]

On 11/6/2021 at 1:57 PM, BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

 

You: 'Do you realise rally is the main way to come back from DS ?'

Also you: 'killing a player will only rally ONE other player, you can't rally your full biggest squad just by killing one people from the smallest squad.

Is rally the main way to come back from DS or is it an insignificant part of the game because you've amazingly said both at the same time. Also nothing to say about target caps and having more 3k armor meatshield rezbots and having more rez CDs lol.

Go fight 20 with 10 and tell me downstate doesn't favor the 20, pretty funny stuff you playing another game. And no, I don't care about this hypothetical situation about 40 man squads vs 50 man squads, this week is finally a time to enjoy other areas of the WvW instead of catering to full squads like usual.

Servers can't even support a decent 40v40 fight, balancing around lagwars is a clown move.

kitten, Koolgai spot on in this thread. 

Yea I love when blob fighters try to pretend blobbing is somehow the intended way to play wvw.. the game engine cant even handle it even on low settings you run around with like 15fps, the servers start crashing etc etc. 

The game is much better off if it starts to promote and encourage 5 man group play, 5 man is enough to take down walls and gates , its the perfect sized team to have enough variety in builds also. 5 man teams spread out across the map(s) means more fights for everyone, just smaller. Instead of all the pugs feeling like they contribute nothing to a blob fight because they are only 1 out of 20 or 40 players, 5v5 group play means you the player is now contributing 20 % of your team efforts, which is MUCH more engaging.

blobfights literally make me fall asleep at keyboard. 

Remove DS permanently and rework traits, refund finishers or whatever. Remove target cap for Aoe DMG only, not healing. 
(healers were never supposed to be in gw2. yall wanna talk about DS being core game feature, well, having 0 support builds in the game was ALSO a core game feature, how funny you DS lovers always forget that. 
Then nerf EWP cooldown to 90m 🙂

EDIT: 

I also wanna add that, not only does wvw fighting require skill in terms of combat, but it also requires good positioning. if you die during the no DS event, have you considered maybe you strayed too far from your team mates and got picked out as an easy target to burst? 99% of the time, when me and my team gets a kill in a fight, say its 5v10, the nr 1 reason our targets die is because they got greedy or went out of position to the point where his teammates could no longer defend him in time. 

I don't understand all this fuss about NDS means kills are luck based or dont  require skill. 
All we do is punish your mistakes with very coordinated attacks. Last night my  team with 1 aura mancer and 1 core corrupt necro + power roamer herald + me on soulbeast + scrapper had to coordinate our burst attacks by having the necro strip stab off of the enemy nade scrapper at exactly the right time so the rest of us could port into him while he was out of position and burst him down.

This gameplay strategy requires lots of coordination between all members of the team. please explain how it requires less skill for 4-5 ppl too coordinate an attack on a target? If you think it doesn't , im pretty sure you just got targeted cus you made the mistake of getting way out of position, which in itself is a SKILL. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by bigo.9037

[Dawdler.8521]

25 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

The game is much better off if it starts to promote and encourage 5 man group play, 5 man is enough to take down walls and gates , its the perfect sized team to have enough variety in builds also. 5 man teams spread out across the map(s) means more fights for everyone, just smaller. Instead of all the pugs feeling like they contribute nothing to a blob fight because they are only 1 out of 20 or 40 players, 5v5 group play means you the player is now contributing 20 % of your team efforts, which is MUCH more engaging. blobfights literally make me fall asleep at keyboard. 

Except people dont spread out because of no downed state - quite the opposite, they seek shelter in the blob because they know they instantly die outside it to 5 man gank groups.

[bigo.9037]

22 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Except people dont spread out because of no downed state - quite the opposite, they seek shelter in the blob because they know they instantly die outside it to 5 man gank groups.

Sure, but with changes that promote 5v5 combat styles instead of larger 20+ player squads that isn't much of a problem imo. I mostly care about bringing down the scale of the fights. Right now theres too many things that favor running around in a huge blob. 

[Gibson.4036]

Have they ever implemented AoE Cap Increase week?