Too Many No Down State Events Is Bad For WvW

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

15 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Have they ever implemented AoE Cap Increase week?

Man I miss the days of no target cap...

I want that with no downstate. My body is ready...

[Gibson.4036]

Seems like it’d be a worthy experiment. What would gameplay look like at 10? Or 25?

[Dawdler.8521]

39 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Seems like it’d be a worthy experiment. What would gameplay look like at 10? Or 25?

Depends on whether you add the other must have stuff, friendly fire and player collision.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[anduriell.6280]

Just now, Dawdler.8521 said:

Depends on whether you add the other must have stuff, friendly fire and player collision.

That should be a must with the no-downstate weeks. 

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Depends on whether you add the other must have stuff, friendly fire and player collision.

I wonder how hard player collision would be to add. It seems like it would be a huge deal, since the game doesn't function that way, as opposed to target cap, which would entail shifting a variable. I could see how collision would revolutionalize gameplay because choke points would suddenly matter a great deal.

Why would friendly fire be a "must have"? It doesn't seem to fit the game at all.

Why would a larger target cap be insufficient? It seems like there should be some tipping point where enough damage could be done to a clump that it would no longer be a good idea to clump.

[Dawdler.8521]

7 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I wonder how hard player collision would be to add. It seems like it would be a huge deal, since the game doesn't function that way, as opposed to target cap, which would entail shifting a variable. I could see how collision would revolutionalize gameplay because choke points would suddenly matter a great deal.

Why would friendly fire be a "must have"? It doesn't seem to fit the game at all.

Why would a larger target cap be insufficient? It seems like there should be some tipping point where enough damage could be done to a clump that it would no longer be a good idea to clump.

Player collision is already in the game (melee attack assist), but client optional instead of forced globally.

Friendly fire is definetly a must have yes. I would even accept permanent no downstate if we had friendly fire. I would just watch zergs all day trying to stack.

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Player collision is already in the game (melee attack assist), but client optional instead of forced globally.

Friendly fire is definetly a must have yes. I would even accept permanent no downstate if we had friendly fire. I would just watch zergs all day trying to stack.

Good point on melee attack assist. I'd thought of that, but wasn't sure that would translate directly into being able to implement across all WvW.

I wonder how complicate friendly fire would be to implement. I'm generally not a fan of it in games, and it seems like it would add a lot of rancor to the game. There's that "never unhappy to see another player" concept ArenaNet talked about at the beginning of the game's development. Obviously, not true of enemy players, but do you really want to add more "ugh, here come more clueless players" to WvW?

Would a larger target cap and player collision really be insufficient to shift away from stacking without friendly fire?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

14 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Player collision is already in the game (melee attack assist), but client optional instead of forced globally.

Friendly fire is definetly a must have yes. I would even accept permanent no downstate if we had friendly fire. I would just watch zergs all day trying to stack.

The lack of friendly fire is really putting a damper on my immersion. Also I would totally kill my own team on purpose if it were enabled.

[Xenesis.6389]

Friendly fire would be funny for 10 mins and then you'd have 4 empty maps for the rest of the week. Already have to fight two sides with up to 100 enemy players, now would have to constantly watch your back for any gank happy idiots that spawn on your side too? no thanks.

 

Target cap limit is there because of performance, unless you would like more combat lag?

[X T D.6458]

Im playing a glassy ele who dies when someone sneezes on me and I love no downstate! Healing, rezzing, and downstate need massive nerfs in WvW.

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

1 hour ago, X T D.6458 said:

Im playing a glassy ele who dies when someone sneezes on me and I love no downstate! Healing, rezzing, and downstate need massive nerfs in WvW.

that's why you wear a mask

[X T D.6458]

3 minutes ago, Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

that's why you wear a mask

Noted 😉

[subversiontwo.7501]

1 hour ago, X T D.6458 said:

Im playing a glassy ele who dies when someone sneezes on me and I love no downstate! Healing, rezzing, and downstate need massive nerfs in WvW.

So basically everyone should be a glassy ele who dies when someone sneezes on them? 😉

[subversiontwo.7501]

For the thread, I don't know. Isn't the amount of NDS event weeks just right? What is it? 2-4 per year? That feels like enough for it to be an exception that some can celebrate and others can weather.

I'm kind of okay with its nature of being fun for a day or two and then quickly stifling overall content in WvW for the rest of the week when the novelty wears off. I'd probably prefer it as a 2-day event a couple of more times a year, to the same totals but it's decent enough as it is. I mainly speak against it when people want more of it, or constantly. It does itself far better as an exception than a norm.

Edited November 8, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[X T D.6458]

26 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

So basically everyone should be a glassy ele who dies when someone sneezes on them? 😉

Of course not, just pointing out how terrible I am 🤣.

[Simonoly.4352]

On 11/7/2021 at 3:02 PM, Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

Eliminating the downstate is by players who don't want to or can't figure out how to manage a player once they  get them down.  The funny part is they claim its their 'skill' that's being diluted by a feature of the game.  Skilled players manage the whole fight. People who think they're skilled are looking to have part of the fight removed. 

"Skilled players manage the whole fight". Never a truer statement was uttered on this here forum. Downed state has been a part of the game since release so if someone is able to down players with ease but not secure a stomp or capitilise on that player being downed (honestly I could write a whole guide on just this) then they need to revise both their build and their playstyle - it's simply not good enough.

That management of fights extends to fight selection too. If somebody knows they can't win a 1vX fight because they can't overcome a player's downed state, then that's just how it is and they need to reconsider the whole encounter. If I'm in this scenario myself I just move on or I recruit some other players to help me. Alternatively, I will continue to harass that group as that's often beneficial if they're after an objection. These benefits include: delaying a point capture/structure siege, forcing the waste of important cooldowns for a subsequent battle or simply to demoralise and frustrate a group so they leave 😉

I get that downed state is an annoyance for some players, but it just requires a few build and playstyle tweaks to overcome and play around it. Still, no downed state events are a bit of a giggle, especially for my donky-donk staff Daredevil 😆

Edited November 8, 2021 by Simonoly.4352

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

52 minutes ago, Simonoly.4352 said:

"Skilled players manage the whole fight". Never a truer statement was uttered on this here forum. Downed state has been a part of the game since release so if someone is able to down players with ease but not secure a stomp or capitilise on that player being downed (honestly I could write a whole guide on just this) then they need to revise both their build and their playstyle - it's simply not good enough.

That management of fights extends to fight selection too. If somebody knows they can't win a 1vX fight because they can't overcome a player's downed state, then that's just how it is and they need to reconsider the whole encounter. If I'm in this scenario myself I just move on or I recruit some other players to help me. Alternatively, I will continue to harass that group as that's often beneficial if they're after an objection. These benefits include: delaying a point capture/structure siege, forcing the waste of important cooldowns for a subsequent battle or simply to demoralise and frustrate a group so they leave 😉

I get that downed state is an annoyance for some players, but it just requires a few build and playstyle tweaks to overcome and play around it. Still, no downed state events are a bit of a giggle, especially for my donky-donk staff Daredevil 😆

 

Just because I know how to manage DS does not make DS any less of an advantage to the side with greater numbers. You are making an assumption that people who don't like DS some how have no idea what to do after getting someone down in an outnumbered fight they are winning.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

It rly is an event that greatly benefits sic em soulbeasts tho so yay

[Malus.2184]

2 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

For the thread, I don't know. Isn't the amount of NDS event weeks just right? What is it? 2-4 per year? That feels like enough for it to be an exception that some can celebrate and others can weather.

Even once pr. year is too often. As I explained earlier the whole concept just messes too much with the core structure of GW and things that can be allowed to be in the game for a balance issue makes it fully unplayable if the thing they were in the game to balance is removed.

It would be more healthy for gameplay if the event rules were something like "Down-state's duration is halved" or "reduced to 33% of the initial duration. Just straight-up removing it makes stuff like high burst insanely op as the Down-state acts as a barrier that prevents that burst from being all-controling. While it was linked earlier, look up Yolosmith on Youtube. I've no desire to play WvW due to such a thing being possible.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Malus.2184

[KrHome.1920]

No casual WvW player (90 % of the playerbase) will change his build for a no downstate week. So all the marauder and zerk guys will die like flies. Removing downstate forever would form a whole new meta. Soldier and dire would become the meta even for dps builds and everything would be like before except outnumbering would not be such a huge carry factor as it is with downstate. And this would be great.

Regarding collision detection: No one who thinks this would be a good idea has spent at least 10 seconds to actually think about it. It would ruin the game. 5 bunkers in a line could stop the movement of a whole zerg. In smallscale one superspeed or speed rune player running in circles around a target would do more cc than any cc chain could ever do ... etc.

Edited November 8, 2021 by KrHome.1920

[Zikory.6871]

40 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

No casual WvW player (90 % of the playerbase) will change his build for a no downstate week. So all the marauder and zerk guys will die like flies. Removing downstate forever would form a whole new meta. Soldier and dire would become the meta even for dps builds and everything would be like before except outnumbering would not be such a huge carry factor as it is with downstate. And this would be great.

I don't think this would happen at all lmao. At least that's not the route I'd go if they removed downstate. 

Saying Dire like Scrapper and Firebrand get removed with downstate. 

The meta changes from having to down/finish to just down. It's actually easier on the current support comps.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

Logged in to play this week, discovered Ganker's Paradise, logged right back out.

[Malus.2184]

46 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

No casual WvW player (90 % of the playerbase) will change his build for a no downstate week. So all the marauder and zerk guys will die like flies. Removing downstate forever would form a whole new meta. Soldier and dire would become the meta even for dps builds and everything would be like before except outnumbering would not be such a huge carry factor as it is with downstate.

Unless they have leggos changing a set of stats is expensive. Take your utter lack of empathy and astoundiung arrogance. This is no hyperbole on the same level as Ben Shapiro's /forehead take thatr people near the coasts would just sell their homes in case of flooding due to climate change.

[Dawdler.8521]

51 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

 5 bunkers in a line could stop the movement of a whole zerg. 

But that's what people keep saying they want?

[ArchonWing.9480]

On 11/7/2021 at 7:02 AM, Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

Eliminating the downstate is by players who don't want to or can't figure out how to manage a player once they  get them down.  The funny part is they claim its their 'skill' that's being diluted by a feature of the game.  Skilled players manage the whole fight. People who think they're skilled are looking to have part of the fight removed. 

I agree to a certain extent.

However, I would say that because I am usually pretty good with the ressing and rallying others thingy. The players that go down a lot are not the skilled ones managing downstates unless they're doing some 4d chess salsa food tactic and the later is usually complaining about this week. Which side are you from?

I dunno, the most important part of the fight is usually when you are up.

And regardless, the ability to adapt trumps any so called "skill" anyways. I honestly could care less about who's superior between the downstaters and anti-downstaters, but if you ask me if a few minor changes (for just a mere week) like that destroys them, then they weren't much of a player  to begin with.

Edited November 8, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480