Too Many No Down State Events Is Bad For WvW

[Jitters.9401]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:37 AM, Mil.3562 said:

1. People are more afraid of pushing or fighting because you can't rally back to fight if you made a mistake or the enemy got lucky on you. So it's all about who hit first and who got luckier.

2. No down state for those support players means no cleaving or kill tagging on downed enemies for loots and Wxp therefore way less rewarding to play during these periods.

3. All Reviving Skills and Traits become totally obsolete during these events.

4. Many players spent real money, NOT those gold-to-gem convert players, to buy Finishers and only to find out that ANet is depriving us from using our Finishers more and more often with these more and more regular no down state events. I want a full refund.

Conclusion: My friends and I never play WvW on no down state weeks. ANet took out all the fun and wasted our money for supporting them by making our Finishers redundant.

A very unhappy and disappointed player and soon to be ex-player.

I disagree. No Down State forces people to be better, or squirrel more to get that kill. Must be like 8 or 9  times today I jumped into a group of 4 or 5 enemies taking camps, killed one person, then ran away. Soooo Much Fun.  Players get too complacent in groups and with the no down state they finally have to be wary of the solo roamer running by.

 

I LOVE the No Down State and I am not the only one.

 

EDIT "I wish it would stay forever."

Edited November 11, 2021 by Jitters.9401

[Gorem.8104]

3 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

I disagree. No Down State forces people to be better, or squirrel more to get that kill. Must be like 8 or 9  times today I jumped into a group of 4 or 5 enemies taking camps, killed one person, then ran away. Soooo Much Fun.  Players get too complacent in groups and with the no down state they finally have to be wary of the solo roamer running by.

 

I LOVE the No Down State and I am not the only one.

 

EDIT "I wish it would stay forever."

 

Yeah tbh, I love no down state as well. It makes the game so much more about skill, and less about being a face in a group and just winning because there is more of you. You can actually get kills and win outnumbered. No overpowered downstate talents or abilities and just pure fighting. 

Don't wish it stay forever though as its fun as an event, gets people to play again for a bit. Do wish we got it more often though 

[Cyninja.2954]

No downstate is fun to some, and not fun to others due to 1 simple reason:

 

It requires adapting and changing builds to accomodate for the lack of downstate.

 

Most players neither have the desire, player skill or gearing ability to do so for a rare event as this.

 

If no downstate stayed, everyone would "tank up". Those easy "poke" kills some here enjoy would be gone because the temporary shift to favor the poke build would be gone as players would start expecting to have to survive longer. 

 

Some players have no issue with no downstate even in blobs, predominantely those with full legendary armor and gear. On the contrary, it's been great fun to make over confident 1 trick pony players donate bags once they jump in trying to kill someone only to realize that they were just a tad damage low.

 

Following that logic: players gravitating to builds which allow a balance between survival and damage in wvw, survival being the minimum to stay alive long enough for supports to save one, take a guess what would happen if the survival element of downstate was removed? 

 

If players build more tank to not even go into downstate, aka the survival of downstate gets rolled into the pre downstate build part, roaming against blobs dies.

 

In short: we would get a new meta which would be even more tanky.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Dawdler.8521]

19 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

No downstate is fun to some, and not fun to others due to 1 simple reason:

 

It requires adapting and changing builds to accomodate for the lack of downstate.

 

Most players neither have the desire, player skill or gearing ability to do so for a rare event as this.

 

If no downstate stayed, everyone would "tank up". Those easy "poke" kills some here enjoy would be gone because the temporary shift to favor the poke build would be gone as players would start expecting to have to survive longer. 

 

Some players have no issue with no downstate even in blobs, predominantely those with full legendary armor and gear. On the contrary, it's been great fun to make over confident 1 trick pony players donate bags once they jump in trying to kill someone only to realize that they were just a tad damage low.

 

Following that logic: players gravitating to builds which allow a balance between survival and damage in wvw, survival being the minimum to stay alive long enough for supports to save one, take a guess what would happen if the survival element of downstate was removed? 

 

If players build more tank to not even go into downstate, aka the survival of downstate gets rolled into the pre downstate build part, roaming against blobs dies.

 

In short: we would get a new meta which would be even more tanky.

I dont even understand a single line of this reasoning. Zergs already run more than half minstrels and even smaller guild groups built "right" are so tanky with all perma boons they are virtually untouchable by randoms. How exactly would they become more tanky? There's a double minstrels gear we dont know about?

For even smaller scale, groups just go the usual meta gank builds instead. You dont go down if you kill the enemy 5v1 in a second and can move on to the next without a care in the world.

And for solos, people are already beating bunkers with better damage builds. Again, where's the super trailblazer with 4000 extra toughness that is going to be needed under your new meta?

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I dont even understand a single line of this reasoning. Zergs already run more than half minstrels and even smaller guild groups built "right" are so tanky with all perma boons they are virtually untouchable by randoms. How exactly would they become more tanky? There's a double minstrels gear we dont know about?

For even smaller scale, groups just go the usual meta gank builds instead. You dont go down if you kill the enemy 5v1 in a second and can move on to the next without a care in the world.

And for solos, people are already beating bunkers with better damage builds. Again, where's the super trailblazer with 4000 extra toughness that is going to be needed under your new meta?

 

So, because 2/5 of the blob run minstrel (Firebrand + off support, often less if supports are missing), you magically forget that the rest is running berserker?

Damage dealers in blobs run berseker or marauder. Last I checked, there is a ton of toughness which can get added there. It's not the minstrel/celestial blob builds which get spiked by poke builds, it's the squishies (at least on competent players).

As far as solo, is that why we get the constant: trailblazer is op, celestial is op... threads? 

If you think that adding more toughness to the remaining 3/5 of a blob won't be noticed, well I would disagree there.

This is even evidenced every single time a blob gets wiped already: first you lose more and more players until eventually the amount of players drops below a critical mass where damage does not get shared among enough players (and the amount of times I've heard a comm go: we have no damage dealers left, got to leave the objective... I've yet to hear a single: ups, only damage dealers left and no more supports even a single time), leading to more spikes of damage hitting individuals. Now if the entire blob runs more toughness in total, guess how that affects survival and player numbers with current sustain? (against uncoordinated or clouding opponents, blob v blob fights are similar but since damage is even more focused the critical mass is broken far faster).

Edited November 11, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Nomad.4301]

I think no downstate is great, and I'd be down for one a month actually. It's great as a roamer and it actually makes support feel even more valuable, the only ones I find who dislike it are those who are prone to playing glass builds and rely on zergs and towers to save them from any mistakes they make. NDS also helps groups fight outnumbered more evenly since groups can't rely on 10 zerglings picking up downs the moment you create them so in a way it makes people more accountable for their actions and forces them to have more situational awareness. Sorry to say, if you die, it usually means you messed up and need to evaluate why it happened (did I overextend? Was I not on the tag? was full zerkers REALLY the best choice for this?), rather than rely on sheer numbers to cover for your mistakes.

Also when i do die I actually prefer to skip the downstate since 90% of the time you aren't getting rezzed, and it allows you to respawn and return to the fight quicker, rather than sitting on the ground being worthless for 20 seconds.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Nomad.4301
Fixed spacing issue

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

13 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

During no downstate, I have seen a single, incredibly well played thief, kill a group of 20 by themselves.  Skirted the group, 1-3 kept squirreling thinking they could "easily take a thief".  Because the group was roaming they never bothered to res the dead.  Eventually, by sheer luck, I imagine a larger group could have gotten them, but it was amazing to watch.

 

My statement is still valid though.  Skill should win fights.  Large groups should not be carried just because they can instantly res each other over and over when they make poor choices.

I have solo wiped groups of 10 trying to take something, I have helped in a random group of 5 skilled players push off a group of 30+, the bads would always be out of position or would get thirsty and chase to far and get picked off without their boonball to support them, once down to the core 10 player group that stuck to tag perfectly, they jumped out.

 

Best part is when you get a PM/mail from one of them saying they are reporting me for cheating. They really do think they are that good of players that the ONLY way someone beats them is if they are cheating. Also, I am not that good, they are just pure bots.

[Fearless.3569]

I just want to say before it was impossible for me to make a difference in WvW, outside of the blob. With this No Downstate event. I am tearing it up on my Ele. Bad players who normally rely on superior numbers and overtuned revive skills. Are now killable if they don't have the skill to fight me. 

 

I only wish we could have at least one No Downstate event week every month. This event for sure made me play WvW a lot more.

[Bingus.4236]

I do well with X game option turned on/off therefore those that don't are obviously bad players even though I am the one that sucks in the reverse scenario.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

33 minutes ago, Bingus.4236 said:

I do well with X game option turned on/off therefore those that don't are obviously bad players even though I am the one that sucks in the reverse scenario.

Leaving out the context that the reverse scenario heavily favors groups that outnumber lol especially after Warclaw was added. It's ok lil bb you'll get your downstate in a day, and your moms and dads can pick you up and kiss the boo boos from the mean thief better.

Edited November 11, 2021 by BeepBoopBop.5403

[Bingus.4236]

1 hour ago, BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

Leaving out the context that the reverse scenario heavily favors groups that outnumber lol especially after Warclaw was added. It's ok lil bb you'll get your downstate in a day, and your moms and dads can pick you up and kiss the boo boos from the mean thief better.

 

Nice projection, I don't remember stating what I thought either way about down state.

[Jitters.9401]

11 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

So, because 2/5 of the blob run minstrel (Firebrand + off support, often less if supports are missing), you magically forget that the rest is running berserker?

Damage dealers in blobs run berseker or marauder. Last I checked, there is a ton of toughness which can get added there. It's not the minstrel/celestial blob builds which get spiked by poke builds, it's the squishies (at least on competent players).

As far as solo, is that why we get the constant: trailblazer is op, celestial is op... threads? 

If you think that adding more toughness to the remaining 3/5 of a blob won't be noticed, well I would disagree there.

This is even evidenced every single time a blob gets wiped already: first you lose more and more players until eventually the amount of players drops below a critical mass where damage does not get shared among enough players (and the amount of times I've heard a comm go: we have no damage dealers left, got to leave the objective... I've yet to hear a single: ups, only damage dealers left and no more supports even a single time), leading to more spikes of damage hitting individuals. Now if the entire blob runs more toughness in total, guess how that affects survival and player numbers with current sustain? (against uncoordinated or clouding opponents, blob v blob fights are similar but since damage is even more focused the critical mass is broken far faster).

The game is not all about blobs. Personally I do not care about blobs nor do many others and the only reason many run in blobs is because roaming with the downed state makes it pointless to fight against 2/3/4/5 enemies.

 

My preferred method of play is called "Reckless Abandon".  While 2 blobs are gathering and empowering, I am already stealing into one, popping dagger storm, then death blossom 3 times before i try to escape. I do not care if both blobs are the enemy blobs. Reckless abandon is where it is at.

 

Now when I see people dropping straight out dead instead of a downed state where they get right back up again, it makes the WvW much more entertaining. 

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

2 hours ago, Bingus.4236 said:

 

Nice projection, I don't remember stating what I thought either way about down state.

Well you are trying to represent the two situations as equal, and they are not. Who else but someone in favor of downstate would do that?

[Bingus.4236]

44 minutes ago, BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

Well you are trying to represent the two situations as equal, and they are not. Who else but someone in favor of downstate would do that?

 

I'm not representing anything. I was laughing at the previous poster's logic for liking no down state.  Personally, I don't care either way whether it's there or not. If you want a decent quality balanced PvP game, go load one up, there are loads of them about.  You don't need to try and talk non interested people into doing something they don't want to do.

[Ed Stargazer.9358]

All no down state week does is bring out hordes of power one wolf pack rangers getting single barrage kills.

[GoldenPants.1870]

4 hours ago, Ed Stargazer.9358 said:

All no down state week does is bring out hordes of power one wolf pack rangers getting single barrage kills.

1. play a reflect class.

2. use Reflect.

3. enjoy your freshly aquired ranger bag.

[Lonecap.4105]

I would also be down for monthly no downstate week. 

[SweetPotato.7456]

No Down State is for lazy kitten and cowardly players who stand on the wall or those hitting people from far away and wants to collect bags fast. 

[Zyreva.1078]

26 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

No Down State is for lazy kitten and cowardly players who stand on the wall or those hitting people from far away and wants to collect bags fast. 

But without downstate those cowardly players on walls can actually die. Why would it benefit them?

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

5 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

But without downstate those cowardly players on walls can actually die. Why would it benefit them?

There are some builds that can 100-0 pretty much anything, so without downstate they can get away with it much more easily. They still can just dodge of enemy "bombs on wall" without much problem and really need to screw-up hard to actually die.

[Zyreva.1078]

4 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

There are some builds that can 100-0 pretty much anything, so without downstate they can get away with it much more easily. They still can just dodge of enemy "bombs on wall" without much problem and really need to screw-up hard to actually die.

"Just dodge" also works vs those builds that can 100-0 pretty much anything, so i guess whoever screws up dies. Sounds fine to me.