Removed the WvW participation grace time granted from repairing

[SweetPotato.7456]

7 hours ago, Jaidy.1824 said:

anet doenst like to reward people who defend towers/keeps or repair stuff. Seems you no longer get participation for flipping a sentry or killing a dolyak either.

What no reward for flipping sentry!? Does Anet even play this game, sentry and supply delivery are very important elements in this game mode.

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

23 minutes ago, suialthor.7164 said:

They need add another way to get gift of battle for people who do not want to WvW.  Forcing people into a mode they would otherwise avoid, and removing one method of making it tolerable for them, is cruel.

Can we trade Gifts of Battle for Gifts of Exploration then?

 

Let's see... Full world completion is 19 hrs on a speed run, gives two GoE, one GoB can be gotten in about 4 hrs, so 2 GoBs for one GoE?

 

Sounds fair to me. We can make GoB purchasable for 500 Memories of Battle in exchange.

[Sviel.7493]

4 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Reward_Track#Increasing_Participation
 

So, for those that feel like repairing is ‘worthless’, know that if the structure is ‘under attack’ as defined by the ‘defense event’ being active, and you PUT SUPPLY INTO A WALL’ you will get credit for ‘defending the structure’ which gives you 10 minutes of participation.,,,

 

So, please stop with the misleading, I’ll informed posts.  
 

Have a good ‘eye roll’ day!  

The situation people are complaining about is the post-siege repair after a huge zerg tries to one-push your keep and then hops maps when they fail.  There are no more attackers so there's no defense event, but there's a ton of damage to be repaired and if your zerg also doesn't help (which is the usual), you may be stuck with a 10-20 minute repair job if you want your keep to survive the next zerg rush.

 

Thanks to this change, that repair job will now be harder to do without losing participation.

P.S. Repairing while a structure is under active siege is generally a poor idea anyway.  It does get you participation, but rarely has a meaningful effect on the defense.

Edit: It seems repairs while under active attack also give no participation.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Sviel.7493

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, Sviel.7493 said:

The situation people are complaining about is the post-siege repair after a huge zerg tries to one-push your keep and then hops maps when they fail.  There are no more attackers so there's no defense event, but there's a ton of damage to be repaired and if your zerg also doesn't help (which is the usual), you may be stuck with a 10-20 minute repair job if you want your keep to survive the next zerg rush.

 

Thanks to this change, that repair job will now be harder to do without losing participation.

P.S. Repairing while a structure is under active siege is generally a poor idea anyway.  It does get you participation, but rarely has a meaningful effect on the defense.

Edit: It seems repairs while under active attack also give no participation.

This exactly. Who is busy repairing while you are being sieged? disabling or killing the siege/enemy nearby is what you should be doing. Plus t3 keeps take the longest to fix up, if you are left alone to repair both 0%'s that is a very long time where repairing to save your objective is the only thing that will protect it. More often then not you are only repairing outside of being attacked and the only reason you'd do it during is because of participation. Essentially all this leads towards is more flipping going on as walls and doors will always be weakened. Its K-trainers love heart update. 

[SweetPotato.7456]

1) Repairing  during attack with reward is basically making it harder to defend against a next attack, everyone will be concentrating on repairing since the repair rewards only last during an attack. 

2) Supply drained issue - not fixed - now it will drained even more because 1)

3) No one is going to manage the repair work afterwards if you get a stupid zerg that doesn't help in repair after an attack.

3) No one is going to hold  structure because there is no reward in Trebbing, there is no reward in Disabling, there is no reward in repairing.  

Edited November 10, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456

[Zepoolpe.9217]

5 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Huh..  I’ll have to test it tonight as well.  My apologies.  Thank you for this info and correction.

And in any case a defense event is only as long as the objective is contested, so even if repairing a wall would still give participation during the event, it would not outside of it.

[SweetPotato.7456]

I've just defended a structure, kill enemy Catapult, cowed them, and prevented them taking the structure, have 0 wxp.

[LSD.4673]

Repairs aren't how AFKs maintain participation...they do that with trebs. So all this does is remove the ability for roamers to reset their ticks

 

[Sleepwalker.1398]

13 hours ago, Baytor.7642 said:

 

Wow so they just made it so you play zerg or nothing?!?!

kitten...there goes my outnumbered buff against SoS SEA Blob

[HazyDaisy.4107]

That moment when the fix for a by and large non issue, exacerbates the issue the fix was supposed to fix.

[Sol.8341]

I have not posted for years and cut my WvW chops from the War Machine days.  This move from the ignorant WvW devs is disappointing.  There is already a huge opportunity cost loss of WXP for defenders that stay behind to repair walls and replace sieges after an enemy attack.  The noobs and pugs always run off with the tag to cap more.  Bear in mind that structures already have zero supply after the noobs use up to do initial repair.  The defenders have to run to camp, fetch supply and back to repair.  This is a negative design decision to hurt defenders.  The positive way is to double /triple WXP for repairing so that everyone wants to repair and there are no walls left for afkers or bots to repair.  This decision to hurt defenders will result in WvW reduced to a karma training zerg blob.  WvW is so much more than the GvG the current devs think it all is.  Look at your current numbers in PvP and the guild organised GvG .  Those are horrible participation.  I challenge the WvW devs to do 2 hours of defending for your realm and experience the commitment and sacrifice of the wall repairers.  These defenders are helping their team and yet you want to hurt them more.  Also as stated by others, afkers / bots earn pips using trebs or mortars on a 1min - 2min timer each shot.  easy to check.  just go EBG and look for trebbing from SMC or the 6 towers nearest to it. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Sol.8341

[Zok.4956]

6 hours ago, Sviel.7493 said:

The situation people are complaining about is the post-siege repair after a huge zerg tries to one-push your keep and then hops maps when they fail.  There are no more attackers so there's no defense event, but there's a ton of damage to be repaired and if your zerg also doesn't help (which is the usual), you may be stuck with a 10-20 minute repair job if you want your keep to survive the next zerg rush.

 

Thanks to this change, that repair job will now be harder to do without losing participation.

There is a simple solution to this: Go in the squad of your zerg and ask the commander to give you participation for repairing and scouting and then you will not loose participation.

Of course, there are not 10 people needed to scout a structure, one is enough.

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Zok.4956

[Sol.8341]

11 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Reward_Track#Increasing_Participation
 

So, for those that feel like repairing is ‘worthless’, know that if the structure is ‘under attack’ as defined by the ‘defense event’ being active, and you PUT SUPPLY INTO A WALL’ you will get credit for ‘defending the structure’ which gives you 10 minutes of participation.,,,

 

So, please stop with the misleading, I’ll informed posts.  
 

Have a good ‘eye roll’ day!  

Wrong all the way !  Defenders should NOT be repairing during an attack. They should be fighting the enemy or using siege.  The repairing of walls come after the enemy was unsuccessful and runs off to resupply or attack other targets.   The value of walls is to delay the attackers reaching the Lord and allow defending team to get back to defend.

[Zok.4956]

5 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

3) No one is going to manage the repair work afterwards if you get a stupid zerg that doesn't help in repair after an attack.

I am sorry for you that you are on a server with stupid zergs. If your zerg does not really care about defending/protecting structures there is no way you can defend structures against attacking enemy zergs on your own. If attackers want to try again they can resupply a lot faster than you can repair walls on your own.

[Wyrdern.4092]

so it seems that the siege damage participation was actually reduced even tho its not in the patch notes, because hitting a wall with a trebuchet was only giving 2 seconds of participation (it used to be 2 minutes).  The fire rate of a trebuchet at max range is about 13 seconds so yes afk trebbing wont work anymore.

[schokelmei.8271]

Good change. Greatly appreciated.

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, salogel.1869 said:

so it seems that the siege damage participation was actually reduced even tho its not in the patch notes, because hitting a wall with a trebuchet was only giving 2 seconds of participation (it used to be 2 minutes).  The fire rate of a trebuchet at max range is about 13 seconds so yes afk trebbing wont work anymore.

lol, if that's true that's even funnier, I'd honestly hate to be a pve'r now. Ah well, no more repairing or sieging good luck getting your Gift of battles pve peeps :D. Better join up with that zerg and either afk now with participation that way or have to zerg to zerg your zergy zerg zerg gift of battle. 

Though honestly that's fine, as siege was the main cause of afk in wvw, whereas repairing walls is an active event and should be returned, the pip change ends up being fine for most players as its a benefit to everyone at all times of day. Even should make it base 3 extra, anything to reduce to many hours of now zerg play it takes to get next to no rewards. Anet hates scouts and roamers and defenders, they only want us zerging at all times.  We have to play how they tell us, we can only play as we are told, no more making up our own game in wvw, the "Cornerstone" of gw2. Maybe a dev has never spent their entire day defending and feeling good that you held a tower or keep solo and are the reason your side won multiple skirmishes due to your scouting before. 

[Strider Pj.2193]

25 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

lol, if that's true that's even funnier, I'd honestly hate to be a pve'r now. Ah well, no more repairing or sieging good luck getting your Gift of battles pve peeps :D. Better join up with that zerg and either afk now with participation that way or have to zerg to zerg your zergy zerg zerg gift of battle. 

Though honestly that's fine, as siege was the main cause of afk in wvw, whereas repairing walls is an active event and should be returned, the pip change ends up being fine for most players as its a benefit to everyone at all times of day. Even should make it base 3 extra, anything to reduce to many hours of now zerg play it takes to get next to no rewards. Anet hates scouts and roamers and defenders, they only want us zerging at all times.  We have to play how they tell us, we can only play as we are told, no more making up our own game in wvw, the "Cornerstone" of gw2. Maybe a dev has never spent their entire day defending and feeling good that you held a tower or keep solo and are the reason your side won multiple skirmishes due to your scouting before. 

I’d like to see the ‘defense event’ give some credit again.  But otherwise, I like the changes as well.  

[Boh.4568]

I've never seen a zerg who doesn't promptly repair walls after a successful defence, especially for keeps and high-tier towers.

Of course SMC is another story, outer walls should never be repaired because it's a total waste of resources and free credit for AFK trebbers from nearby towers. All this would just be solved by entirely removing trebs from the game (way too much range) and possibly giving more ammo options to catapults.

[Dawdler.8521]

The thing that account for 0.0001% of my total participation in a match has been removed WvW IS RUINED!

[allshallperish.4620]

For science i roleplayed a player that doesn't like to leave a tower or castle and likes to watch a movie on a second screen aka be afk  kinda.  i legit spent time only repairing walls and running supply to walls, or trebbing, did this for over an hour.  I can confirm the change made little to no difference and i was rewarded and maintained t6 participation 95% of the time.  You can legit be almost afk and get rewarded.  I think the change needed to be harsher and promote more active gameplay, but hey its a step in the right direction and the game should be about active play and promoting pvp encounters.  GG anet also on the outnumbered pip change now you players can join the maps with, you know other players lmao.  BTW i was not in a zerg, so stop crying and typing absolute lies about how anet ruined the game.  These changes are good, but u can still pretty much afk and repair and get rewards so stop the tears ladies and gents.  If you want proof msg me privately and i can send u a stream vod link.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

2 hours ago, Boh.4568 said:

I've never seen a zerg who doesn't promptly repair walls after a successful defence, especially for keeps and high-tier towers.

Of course SMC is another story, outer walls should never be repaired because it's a total waste of resources and free credit for AFK trebbers from nearby towers. All this would just be solved by entirely removing trebs from the game (way too much range) and possibly giving more ammo options to catapults.

 

I've lost count of how many times I've been roaming on a map, doing defense/scouting, call out for a help in defense from an invasion, and after the defense zerg pushes them out, they promptly jump back to play around SMC leaving the keep/tower with walls and doors at no supply and 30% health.  

[Xenesis.6389]

9 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

Repairs aren't how AFKs maintain participation...they do that with trebs. So all this does is remove the ability for roamers to reset their ticks

 

 

Actually, was using a treb yesterday to hit anz, and the participation timer refresh was only 2s every hit, while it took me like 5s to fire off the shot, so I started losing participation. So it seems they did change participation with afk sieging too?

 

Funny thing too, I got participation credit for breaking down the wall don't remember if I got wxp, but got nothing for the tower cap that I was late to arrive for lol.

 

 

[Xenesis.6389]

7 hours ago, Sol.8341 said:

Wrong all the way !  Defenders should NOT be repairing during an attack. They should be fighting the enemy or using siege.  The repairing of walls come after the enemy was unsuccessful and runs off to resupply or attack other targets.   The value of walls is to delay the attackers reaching the Lord and allow defending team to get back to defend.

Um not entirely true, there are legit times to repair walls in the middle of battle, like cutting off enemy reinforcements, or even splitting their zerg in half. The problem is players don't actually look at the entire situation to see if they should or should not, as there are also times where leaving the wall open is best so your team can make use of the choke, but a lot of times it just ends up having your own zerg getting split up by an ill timed repair....

[obastable.5231]

16 hours ago, suialthor.7164 said:

They need add another way to get gift of battle for people who do not want to WvW.  Forcing people into a mode they would otherwise avoid, and removing one method of making it tolerable for them, is cruel.

The reverse of this has been the argument of WvW'ers since launch. The majority of all legendary crafting requires PvE, and no small amount of it. Same goes for some ascended stat sets. It took years for Anet to give WvW'ers means of accessing those mats and stat sets without as much PvE, and a set of legendary armor primarily crafted in WvW with significantly less fancy effects (because we clearly don't deserve or care about cool aesthetics or something). There are still no legendary weapons available in WvW, and only one accessory. The drop rates in WvW are awful, there is little to no money to be made by playing the game mode, especially if you play a support - then you receive about 85% less drops than other specs and this is actually an improvement over the 95% less you used to get.

So, I don't know what to tell you here, except welcome to our pain and plight.

Just try to keep in mind that changes and balances to WvW have more to do with keeping the combat interesting and balanced. Unlike PvE there are no NPC's or dynamic events generating the content. Everything in WvW is player generated, the balance has to be reflective of that. It has to entice and reward people for interactive gameplay because without that WvW is just a group of maps.

All that aside, it would be nice to have better access to loot, especially legendary accessories, and a reward system on par with PvE where you can make 50g or more an hour farming an endless loop of NPC's and dynamic events. If we didn't have to leave WvW for shiny things we would be able to generate more content within it, keep maps more populated across all hours, and generally create a more enjoyable and interactive environment for ourselves.

Edit to add: for what it's worth, the fastest means to gift of battle is to hop in a group and run around. Attack, defend, press 1 a lot if that's your thing, probably die but that's ok. It's not like there's special requirements for it anymore (you used to have to do map completion in WvW to get it - all 4 maps),  now you just need to get enough WXP for the reward track, which should go fairly quick even with a pug zerg, and especially if you can pop some boosters.

Edited November 10, 2021 by obastable.5231