Removed the WvW participation grace time granted from repairing

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

For those upset over participation from siege:

- You can now only build participation with fast siege like Catapult directly on wall or Flame Ram.

- Slower, long-range siege like Trebuchet or Catapult from long range (like safe position on cliff, etc.) barely maintain participation, or lose participation over time.

- Defensive siege gives no participation at all.

 

So, can we please stop complaining about participation from siege? Besides, most of the time when you take an objective at off-hours its because someone was trying to open it for you. I doubt you do it yourself.

 

There's very few ways of building participation in off-hours now especially if everything is T3. All you can do is flip Sentries back and forth, put on your PvE builds to solo T2-T3 camps often reinforced with mercenaries, or hope that there's a wooden tower somewhere you can take.

 

These changes seem good for engagement, but they may actually reduce engagement in the long run since there's going to be alot less open objectives all around, especially upgraded ones. Matchups last way too long and most players stop playing after 2-3 days into the matchup. We can't tune the entire game mode just for reset, prime time, etc. because its not sustainable in the long-term, even with Alliances.

 

The majority of WvW, by which I mean 2/3rds of the day, is small-scale and always will be unless they manage to attract alot more players to the game mode.

 

But, at least they solved the worries about walls always being open due to no rewards from repairing? 😛

Edited November 12, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[ArchonWing.9480]

I can't really agree with the siege changes. People don't want to get on trebs especially. I mean while I repair a lot of walls, I probably haven't used a treb in a few months. 😗

Edited November 12, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I can't really agree with the siege changes. People don't want to get on trebs especially. I mean while I repair a lot of walls, I probably haven't used a treb in a few moths. 😗

 

Yeah I mean, Trebs is honestly something you only really do by yourself when you are not zerging and using cata's or rams for speed, this change effectively removes Trebs from the game mode, as if you decide to build one and use one, by the time its built, and used, you are getting no rewards for actively playing wvw. So even though for some reason they didn't include it in the notes, what this means is less walls being damaged outside of zergs. Which would mean less repairing to do. They've actually removed multiple playstyles with this update all at once. 

So they don't want us repairing, and they don't want us sieging outside of a K-train Zerg. They don't want us defending, and yet they don't want us attacking, outside of a K-train zerg. Is that what Anet wants wvw to become then? A pve place that contains no enemy players with us just zerging from pve objective to pve objective? Well, it'll be funny to soon see that outside of the zerg running, everything is just t3 now. I already seen the most people I've seen in a long time going from camp to camp nearby the spawn locations and just afking every ten minutes.  

[retsuya.4708]

Found the guy repairing the wall, draining supplies, while it is being sieged.

[SweetPotato.7456]

On 11/10/2021 at 5:00 PM, Zok.4956 said:

There is a simple solution to this: Go in the squad of your zerg and ask the commander to give you participation for repairing and scouting and then you will not loose participation.

Of course, there are not 10 people needed to scout a structure, one is enough.

 

Have you try asking any commander for participation? 

[Strider Pj.2193]

8 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Have you try asking any commander for participation? 

When I have been useful to the commander, I haven’t had to.  
 

Give the commander what he/she needs, be an actual asset, and they will often offer it.  
 

There are some players who spam team and map chat with such vitriol about the commander not defending this tower or that keep…. Those players won’t get a young cat thing for their version of ‘scouting’.

 

Most commanders what info on position of the enemy Zerg including guild tag and numbers.  They don’t want extraneous 💩.  Give that accurately without editorial comments…,  You might see some assist with participation.

[Zyreva.1078]

8 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

Yeah I mean, Trebs is honestly something you only really do by yourself when you are not zerging and using cata's or rams for speed, this change effectively removes Trebs from the game mode, as if you decide to build one and use one, by the time its built, and used, you are getting no rewards for actively playing wvw. So even though for some reason they didn't include it in the notes, what this means is less walls being damaged outside of zergs. Which would mean less repairing to do. They've actually removed multiple playstyles with this update all at once.

You are basically confirming that trebbing is useless and the only purpose was to gain rewards with minimal effort and risk. It is also funny how the notion changes from "oh nooo, nobody will repair and all walls will be open constantly" to "oh nooo, nobody will siege and walls will be closed forever" from post to post. Reality is, nothing has really changed for the vast majority of players.

 

8 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

So they don't want us repairing, and they don't want us sieging outside of a K-train Zerg. They don't want us defending, and yet they don't want us attacking, outside of a K-train zerg. Is that what Anet wants wvw to become then? A pve place that contains no enemy players with us just zerging from pve objective to pve objective? Well, it'll be funny to soon see that outside of the zerg running, everything is just t3 now. I already seen the most people I've seen in a long time going from camp to camp nearby the spawn locations and just afking every ten minutes.  

They want players to engage and interact and just did one tiny step into the right direction.

There is not more or less T3 stuff and there are not more or less players flipping spawn camps inbetween afking.

[Zok.4956]

10 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Have you try asking any commander for participation? 

Yes.

[suialthor.7164]

2 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Reality is, nothing has really changed for the vast majority of players.

This may be related to the current server matchup.  

On outnumbered maps it seems harder to get participation.  Which seems backwards but the other servers simply have to many numbers and refuse to fight each other.  In theory the new alliance stuff addresses this but I have my doubts it will be completely resolved.

On maps where I have a number advantage or numbers are about equal, then things seem about the same.

[KrHome.1920]

I didn't play the game since monday, but when you say sieging now gives 2 seconds of participation then I guess this is only a bug and it should be 2 minutes.

This reminds me of the necro trident bug where the autoattack shoud grant 2% life force but actually grants 2 life force (which is comical because necro has a life force pool of multiple thousand).

[Stand The Wall.6987]

apparently they want you to interact with real people lol.

[Voltekka.2375]

Prepatch:

 

Repairing walls of uncontested structures: 5 mins of participation timer reset. 

Repairing walls of contested structures: 10 mins of participation timer reset (defender)

 

After patch:

 

Repairing walls of uncontested structures: 0 mins of participation timer reset

Repairing walls of contested structures: 10 (as far as i checked this week, correct me on this) mins of participation timer reset (defender).

 

So, the only thing that changed is the uncontested structures repairing thing. 

 

 

If i am wrong, feel free to correct me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

46 minutes ago, Voltekka.2375 said:

Prepatch:

 

Repairing walls of uncontested structures: 5 mins of participation timer reset. 

Repairing walls of contested structures: 10 mins of participation timer reset (defender)

 

After patch:

 

Repairing walls of uncontested structures: 0 mins of participation timer reset

Repairing walls of contested structures: 10 (as far as i checked this week, correct me on this) mins of participation timer reset (defender).

 

So, the only thing that changed is the uncontested structures repairing thing. 

 

 

If i am wrong, feel free to correct me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THAT makes sense.  Just throwing supply into a wall should give credit.  
 

And for those that say if a wall is being attacked you shouldn’t repair it:  Delaying a group until your group shows up can be quite beneficial for scouts to do.  
 

And for this complaining that the Zerg leaves and you are left repairing…. Let’s be clear, it’s a 3 minute event.  If it takes you that long to repair it, maybe your server doesn’t really want the structure.  

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

On contested structures you get participation if you repair the wall while the "defend" event is active and succesfully completed. At the time of repairing you get nothing, but if the event succeeds (e.g. enemy did not manage to capture within the event time ticker) you get participation grace time.

However from what I have been seeing (and I am keeping a very close eye on my participation since these changes to learn what does and does not count) It ONLY gives me reset plus grace time if the Event was succesful. 

If the enemy caps it before the ticket hits zero then the event failed and your participation is not reset. 

Not sure if that is how it is suppose to work, but that is what I see on my own participation counter. Seen in at least 3 cases where I helped defend a tower or keep and know I put supply in the wall.

If this should not be as I experienced it, it is bugged (at least in my case)

[Avatara.1042]

That siege change must be a bug.  They cannot be that inept, can they?

Edited November 13, 2021 by Avatara.1042

[Sugar Min.5834]

On 11/11/2021 at 7:20 AM, Bingus.4236 said:

Pressing F is hardcore gaming, gib rewards.

No. Hiding  inside a zerg gaining participation credits by just roleplaying and one hit tagging the enemies is the ultimate hardcore gaming.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Mil.3562

[SweetPotato.7456]

So, this is just another way roamers going to get kill sneakily.  
 

[obastable.5231]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:59 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Wait...what? Someone catting a wall should absolutely reward participation, as a lot of times that is how havoc is done.  Trebbing on the other hand is a different story, because people LOVE to afk treb.  

As a sidenote, if catting a wall is 'PvE'ing' then what exactly is flipping camps? As that's literal PvE if no one comes, right?

Anyway, removing participation for repairing something is about the dumbest thing they could have done.  I say this because to my knowledge you can't afk repair, and repairing is an essential part of WvW....so why remove the participation time gain from it? 

At this point in time, everything defense related is pretty thankless--escorting yaks, repairing, refreshing siege....

Someone catapulting a wall alone with no defenders interfering with them is certainly not PvP. Walls aren't players. Going off about other poorly implemented parts of WvW doesn't make this part less poor. They're both poorly implemented, they could both use improvements. NOT fixing something as simple as this because they also haven't fixed a dozen other equally problematic issues isn't a valid argument. If that was how things were done then nothing would ever get fixed.

[SweetPotato.7456]

5 minutes ago, obastable.5231 said:

Someone catapulting a wall alone with no defenders interfering with them is certainly not PvP. Walls aren't players. Going off about other poorly implemented parts of WvW doesn't make this part less poor. They're both poorly implemented, they could both use improvements. NOT fixing something as simple as this because they also haven't fixed a dozen other equally problematic issues isn't a valid argument. If that was how things were done then nothing would ever get fixed.

Catapulting a wall alone in WvW is an essential part of the game, it is a strategy, weather you like it or not, the person who goes catapulting alone contribute more then a guy leeching in a zerg. If you don't check everything that shown and X (contested), than your team will lost the objective. I do that all the time, some time defenders come, sometime they don't, sometime it is able to distract a whole zerg to come if the objective is a tier 3 structure. 

don't de-value what roamers do.

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456

[Sugar Min.5834]

12 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

......

There are some players who spam team and map chat with such vitriol about the commander not defending this tower or that keep…. Those players won’t get a young cat thing for their version of ‘scouting’.

 

Most commanders what info on position of the enemy Zerg including guild tag and numbers.  They don’t want extraneous 💩.  Give that accurately without editorial comments…,  You might see some assist with participation.

Why do scouts even bordered to stay and helped repairing those damage walls and run supply dolyaks to upgrade structures when they could be like the others following (hiding in) zerg to gain pips? Like someone mentioned, it's a different kind of playstyle for those who want to do something else.

And it's not like what some comedian said just press F to get rewards. It takes time and sacrifices to build Tier'ed structures fast and then what? A small group of 10+ zerg comes along and tries to take that out and multiple callouts to help defend it were being totally ignored while some fishmonger (sellfish) guilds with most of our ppl are in other maps busily earning pips for themselves. All it takes is just 5 mins for them to come and save hours of hard work.

Oh they will come alright BUT only if sieged Keep or Tower belongs to their guild, otherwise, let the enemies take it who cares if it's T2 or T3. They will want to recap it later and yay more pips! To these players it's all for their guilds and none for the team. They are just fishmonger Tags not Commanders. Real Commanders siege and defense. I truly miss them.

Vitriol or not depending on which side you are on.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Mil.3562

[Strider Pj.2193]

14 minutes ago, Mil.3562 said:

Why do scouts even bordered to stay and helped repairing those damage walls and run supply dolyaks to upgrade structures when they could be like the others following (hiding in) zerg to gain pips? Like someone mentioned, it's a different kind of playstyle for those who want to do something else.

And it's not like what some comedian said just press F to get rewards. It takes time and sacrifices to build Tier'ed structures fast and then what? A a small group of 10+ zerg comes along and tries to take that out and multiple callouts to help defend it were being totally ignored while some fishmonger (sellfish) guilds with most of our ppl are in other maps busily earning pips for themselves. All it takes is just 5 mins for them to come and save hours of hard work.

Oh they will come alright if only sieged Keep or Tower belongs to their guild, if not let the enemies cap it and who cares if it's T3. They will recap it later and yay more pips! To these players it's all for their guilds and none for the team. The are just fishmonger Tags not Commanders. Real Commanders siege and defense. I truly miss them.

Vitriol or not depending on which side you are on.

They don’t care if the tower belongs to them…

 

They’ll come if they want to defend the structure, or if there are enough bags to be had.  
 

I’ve never seen a guild go ‘oh my, North East Tower is ours!  Let’s go defend it! ‘    🙄

 

Large zergs are less likely to come for 10 players..  the expectation is that the players on that border will.  In our server, they’ll come if it’s T-3.  Or if it’s a group worth fighting.  
 

Most of our zergs won’t cap low tier towers.  It just doesn’t elicit a response.  They leave that to the solos and the small groups.  

[SweetPotato.7456]

This thread is making the Dev  to look like they don't know what type of players are in WvW, so Just For information
 

There are players who

1) play in a group with a tag that goes around and taking everything on every map (usually when they know enemy servers are on downtime)

2) play in a smaller group sneak around taking everything they can on one favourite map, will hop map during down time to take other objectives, will help if they know for sure another group is there to help. (usually invisible tagging, these guild stays together long)

3) play in a small group that wants to bust a Zerg  (These guild usually disband after a while)

4) play in a small group because they have become friends over time. (Usually becomes big and have some guild grudge and split)

5) play in a small group for guild stuff and daily, (often not in WvW long hour, because they probably play all parts of the game hence no time for WvW) these people stays together long 

6) the people who pvp in wvw 

7) there roamers that runs around flipping camps, killing dolyaks, fight other roamers, take camps, sometime they tag along a visible tag when available.

8 ) the camps and dolyaks busters, this players hold camps, kill enemy's dolyaks making sure enemy structures doesn't tier up.

9) the people who hunt noobs in wvw 

10) the people who still think they are doing stuffs for the server 
11) and then there are the AFKs 

pretty sure there are many more type of playstyles/players in this game mode 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

This thread is making the Dev  to look like they don't know what type of players are in WvW, so Just For information
 

There are players who

1) play in a group with a tag that goes around and taking everything on every map (usually when they know enemy servers are on downtime)

2) play in a smaller group sneak around taking everything they can on one favourite map, will hop map during down time to take other objectives, will help if they know for sure another group is there to help. (usually invisible tagging, these guild stays together long)

3) play in a small group that wants to bust a Zerg  (These guild usually disband after a while)

4) play in a small group because they have become friends over time. (Usually becomes big and have some guild grudge and split)

5) play in a small group for guild stuff and daily, (often not in WvW long hour, because they probably play all parts of the game hence no time for WvW) these people stays together long 

6) the people who pvp in wvw 

7) there roamers that runs around flipping camps, killing dolyaks, fight other roamers, take camps, sometime they tag along a visible tag when available.

8 ) the camps and dolyaks busters, this players hold camps, kill enemy's dolyaks making sure enemy structures doesn't tier up.

9) the people who hunt noobs in wvw 

10) the people who still think they are doing stuffs for the server 
11) and then there are the AFKs 

pretty sure there are many more type of playstyles/players in this game mode 

2-7-9 here o7

[Sugar Min.5834]

-- delete --

double post

Edited November 13, 2021 by Mil.3562

[Sugar Min.5834]

4 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

They don’t care if the tower belongs to them…

 

They’ll come if they want to defend the structure, or if there are enough bags to be had.  
 

I’ve never seen a guild go ‘oh my, North East Tower is ours!  Let’s go defend it! ‘    🙄

 

Large zergs are less likely to come for 10 players..  the expectation is that the players on that border will.  In our server, they’ll come if it’s T-3.  Or if it’s a group worth fighting.  
 

Most of our zergs won’t cap low tier towers.  It just doesn’t elicit a response.  They leave that to the solos and the small groups.  

Most will not want to come and defend paper or low tiered structures. This is common and understandable. But i am talking about T3 Towers or even T3 Keeps, and this happened often in my server, they are being ignored and our wvw guild zerg only want to recap them later to plant their flags on it. No incentives to do defense or build anything now. Also, seems like ANet wants it this way. Taking away more playstyles in a already dying game mode. Ignorance is bliss. Indeed.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Mil.3562
edited few times and still many typos >.>