Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Removed the WvW participation grace time granted from repairing


HARDOFREADING.7298

Recommended Posts

I have on ser

39 minutes ago, Mil.3562 said:

Most will not want to come and defend paper or low tiered structures. This common and understandable. But i am talking about T3 Towers or even T3 Keep, and this happened often in my server, are being ignored and our guild run zerg only want to recap them later to plant their flags on it. No incentives to do defense or build anything now. Also, seems like ANet wants it this way. Taking away more playstyles in a dying game mode. Ignorance is bliss. Indeed.

Can confirm this, Have on several occassions, call outs were made prior to enemy even dropping catapult on the T3 objective, following them, know they going to hit the keep, and there were tag (with a zerg) on the map, that didn't want to defend. 

BTW just prevented an attack on Hill, chase away the attacker, killed their cata, FORGOT To repair wall, and didn't get objective defender daily.  what I just did wasn't defending the keep???? 

  • Like 9
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mil.3562 said:

Most will not want to come and defend paper or low tiered structures. This common and understandable. But i am talking about T3 Towers or even T3 Keep, and this happened often in my server, are being ignored and our guild run zerg only want to recap them later to plant their flags on it. No incentives to do defense or build anything now. Also, seems like ANet wants it this way. Taking away more playstyles in a dying game mode. Ignorance is bliss. Indeed.

Players not showing up to to defend is often because they want to avoid confrontation with the enemy and a symptom of the reward driven mentality that's not only about maximising rewards but also minimising effort and risk. Nothing new ...

 

19 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

I have on ser

Can confirm this, Have on several occassions, call outs were made prior to enemy even dropping catapult on the T3 objective, following them, know they going to hit the keep, and there were tag (with a zerg) on the map, that didn't want to defend. 

BTW just prevented an attack on Hill, chase away the attacker, killed their cata, FORGOT To repair wall, and didn't get objective defender daily.  what I just did wasn't defending the keep???? 

Area for defense events is fairly small, if they are siegeing from further away you won't get any credit. Same when defending camps and the guards are already dead and the defense events runs out before you kill the attackers, because the capture circle being contested does not trigger the event. It is also kinda odd that singlehandedly killing multiple attackers with no other allied players arround often only results in bronze medal for the defense. Meanwhile sitting inside the circle while capturing with 50 others nets gold without having to do anything. Not the most thought out system for sure.

Edited by UmbraNoctis.1907
  • Confused 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, obastable.5231 said:


Someone catapulting a wall alone with no defenders interfering with them is certainly not PvP. Walls aren't players. Going off about other poorly implemented parts of WvW doesn't make this part less poor. They're both poorly implemented, they could both use improvements. NOT fixing something as simple as this because they also haven't fixed a dozen other equally problematic issues isn't a valid argument. If that was how things were done then nothing would ever get fixed.

 

SweetPotato answered this pretty well, but I will add that WvW is not PvP.  If you want PvP...go play PvP.

  • Like 4
  • Confused 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As ii stood before is you do not get any WXP during the defense, you do not get credit on anything. Defending a tower on an AC but no enemy dying; no reward, no participation. The item that needed removal of participation was on using siege weapons that be botted unattended. i.e. trebs. As someone mentioned, a simple way hold down the 2 key and participation forever if you use a blue treb on a T3 wall. Repairs will go undone on keeps and towers once defense participation has expired. We may as well just go back to the karma trains in a single BL again going around in circles . Just keep taking objectives in a circle because it has no benefit to holding or repairing objectives. Or maybe just remove all objectives on EBG and leave it as an arena for constant zerg fights. Eternal Battleground indeed. 


Nothing but zerg fights drives out the casual, the curious and only those with the fastest comps or reflexes will always rule. Hmm that will make WvW into larger scale PvP and just be as toxic eventually.

  • Like 4
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

SweetPotato answered this pretty well, but I will add that WvW is not PvP.  If you want PvP...go play PvP.

9 hours ago, Ed Stargazer.9358 said:

Nothing but zerg fights drives out the casual, the curious and only those with the fastest comps or reflexes will always rule. Hmm that will make WvW into larger scale PvP and just be as toxic eventually.

Again, WvW IS (supposed to be) a PvP game mode according to the very official description. If you don't like PvP, then maybe WvW is not the right game mode for you (luckily there is plenty of PvE content in this game, so no need to ruin WvW to cater to those individuals who seem to struggle to pick the right game mode).

Edited by UmbraNoctis.1907
  • Like 1
  • Confused 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Again, WvW IS (supposed to be) a PvP game mode according to the very official description. If you don't like PvP, then maybe WvW is not the right game mode for you (luckily there is plenty of PvE content in this game, so no need to ruin WvW to cater to those individuals who seem to struggle to pick the right game mode).

It's still not PvP though.  As in structured PvP--you know, the mode that is only centered around killing opponents for the purpose of point capture.  That is what I meant in my reply, thought it was pretty clear but guess not.  

So while yes, WvW obviously has player vs. player elements it also has a lions share of PvE type elements.  Asking for reduction of rewards for engaging in the PvE side means fundamentally changing the mode.  

But no matter what, catt'ing a wall (the reason I replied in the first place) is not PvE OR PvP.  It's strategic part of the meta of the WvW mode--you know, taking objectives is the primary purpose no matter what 'fight guilds' like to say.  

Edited by Gotejjeken.1267
  • Like 9
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spvp has pvp and capture points.

Wvw has pvp and capture points.

 

It's the same thing! Wvw has npcs and walls to stall large groups cause it's large scale siege warfare too.

Obvious that people want to label wvw as pve to make changes for easy lazy legendary rewards, otherwise you'd be in pve that drops even more rewards than wvw in the first place.

  • Confused 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

It's still not PvP though.  As in structured PvP--you know, the mode that is only centered around killing opponents for the purpose of point capture.  That is what I meant in my reply, thought it was pretty clear but guess not.  

So while yes, WvW obviously has player vs. player elements it also has a lions share of PvE type elements.  Asking for reduction of rewards for engaging in the PvE side means fundamentally changing the mode.  

But no matter what, catt'ing a wall (the reason I replied in the first place) is not PvE OR PvP.  It's strategic part of the meta of the WvW mode--you know, taking objectives is the primary purpose no matter what 'fight guilds' like to say.  

WvW doesn't only have "PvP elements", it is just as much a PvP game mode as sPvP. Being less structured and taking place on a much larger scale does not change that. Some sPvP maps have PvE elements too, doesn't make them any less PvP centric. Structures and NPC in WvW mainly serve as funnels for players. They are meant to be something players fight for, just like capture points in sPvP. And siegeing (and repairing) are supposed to aid those fights, not replace them.

 

  • Like 1
  • Confused 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a war simulation game mode. There is more to war than clashing against an enemy, it is also running supply lines, cutting off enemy supply lines, defending objectives, and yes even maintaining objectives.

All the nice things we've received as of late, that make the QOL easier for the people engaged in all of the elements other than the Zerg v. Zerg circle jerking got nerfed because the ZvZ circle jerks QQ'd that it inhibited their jerking (See every single warclaw nerf).

Its a war mode, which surprise surprise much as Lord Faren learned is more than PvP. Not everyone Zergs. Nor everyone's PC can handle that load, some people prefer small scale.

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, HazyDaisy.4107 said:

I wonder if you can still afk treb in ebg like you can still afk repair in ebg.  Someone that's not in a que should check on that.

Those that have checked said that the participation gain was 2 seconds, which it takes 7-9 seconds between charging it and launching a stone, effectively saying..  no.  

  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It is a war simulation game mode. There is more to war than clashing against an enemy, it is also running supply lines, cutting off enemy supply lines, defending objectives, and yes even maintaining objectives.

All the nice things we've received as of late, that make the QOL easier for the people engaged in all of the elements other than the Zerg v. Zerg circle jerking got nerfed because the ZvZ circle jerks QQ'd that it inhibited their jerking (See every single warclaw nerf).

Its a war mode, which surprise surprise much as Lord Faren learned is more than PvP. Not everyone Zergs. Nor everyone's PC can handle that load, some people prefer small scale.

Idk why you would equate PvP and zerging. Any form of player vs player engagement is PvP.

Also warclaw and most other additions hurt small scale and mainly benefit zerging, so nerfing that kitten is a good thing if small scale is what you are looking for.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Idk why you would equate PvP and zerging. Any form of player vs player engagement is PvP.

Also warclaw and most other additions hurt small scale and mainly benefit zerging, so nerfing that kitten is a good thing if small scale is what you are looking for.

All the warclaws nerfs hurt small scale. When it was released a small group on warclaws could bust a Zerg. The zerglings QQ'd. Warclaws had three long distance evades. Zerglings QQ'd because said warclaws could bust the Zerg. Warclaws had vastly superior movement speed, Zerglings QQ'd because it was they had to rush to objectives rather than take their time in their circle jerking.

 

Meanwhile all of those abilities were made small scale roaming more fun and more fast paced.

  • Like 2
  • Confused 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

All the warclaws nerfs hurt small scale. When it was released a small group on warclaws could bust a Zerg. The zerglings QQ'd. Warclaws had three long distance evades. Zerglings QQ'd because said warclaws could bust the Zerg. Warclaws had vastly superior movement speed, Zerglings QQ'd because it was they had to rush to objectives rather than take their time in their circle jerking.

 

Meanwhile all of those abilities were made small scale roaming more fun and more fast paced.

Lol, warclaw was probably the most harmful implementation for roaming/small scale. It was never used to "bust" zergs with smaller numbers. All ppl did was finish off downs that others's generated, and it was usually the bigger zerg that could afford to have some players mounted at the side instead of fighting.

As someone who exclusively plays solo or in a small grp, the initial implementation of the mount made me quit the game for 1,5 years and if it hadn't been nerfed i would have never come back. Don't know a single roamer or small scale player who actually likes it.

Edited by UmbraNoctis.1907
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
  • Confused 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Lol, warclaw was probably the most harmful implementation for roaming/small scale. It was never used to "bust" zergs with smaller numbers. All ppl did was finish off downs that others's generated, and it was usually the bigger zerg that could afford to have some players mounted at the side instead of fighting.

As someone who exclusively plays solo or in a small grp, the initial implementation of the mount made me quit the game for 1,5 years and if it hadn't been nerfed i would have never come back. Don't know a single roamer or small scale player who actually likes it.

Well you just met one at least. That speed and the three long dodges made map traversal quick af. That and the finishing mechanic let you save a buddy in a 1vX situation where they and one of  the enemy were down. WvW was very much more dynamic as a result of the initial warclaw release.

  • Like 2
  • Confused 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Lol, warclaw was probably the most harmful implementation for roaming/small scale. It was never used to "bust" zergs with smaller numbers. All ppl did was finish off downs that others's generated, and it was usually the bigger zerg that could afford to have some players mounted at the side instead of fighting.

As someone who exclusively plays solo or in a small grp, the initial implementation of the mount made me quit the game for 1,5 years and if it hadn't been nerfed i would have never come back. Don't know a single roamer or small scale player who actually likes it.

I don't feel this is quite correct.

 

From my experience back when Warclaw could finish downs, and likewise with the no downstate events, having a vulnerable downstate greatly favors smaller groups because larger groups make up for lack of player skill (which is typical of the zergling mentality, and only following orders), by having alot of hands to revive players.

 

Defending in these situations in particular was far easier because you could just close the wall/gate, cloud and get some kills then eliminate those players from the battlefield entirely with no chance of return.

 

The game is notably more difficult for the weaker side when downstate is present.

 

Also, roamers mainly didn't like it because other roamers could avoid them (and that was fixed). Being able to pick and chose your battles depending on your enemy rank, class, etc. was something that players who like to pick battles for their enemies instead didn't agree with.

Edited by Hannelore.8153
  • Like 3
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Well you just met one at least. That speed and the three long dodges made map traversal quick af. That and the finishing mechanic let you save a buddy in a 1vX situation where they and one of  the enemy were down. WvW was very much more dynamic as a result of the initial warclaw release.

It made map traversal quicker for zergs, allowing them to karma train faster, avoid evil "gankers" (= anyone who dares to attack someone outside of a blob vs blob fiesta) in the process and chase down anyone who was stupid enough to show up with with a small grp or even solo. Saving someone outnumbered with warclaw happened maybe once in a blue moon (also saving someone outnumbered by actually fighting is much more satisfying anyway).

WvW wasn't more dynamic at all, quite the opposite. Kiting and splitting superior numbers up to eventually defeat them - removed. Intercepting reinforcements for the zergs - removed. Engaging in random 1vs1/small scale encounters - basically removed.

It was (and still is to some extent) nothing but karma train and players avoiding anything but heavily favoured fights, that got much harder to handle for the outnumbered side.

 

3 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

I don't feel this is quite correct.

 

From my experience back when Warclaw could finish downs, and likewise with the no downstate events, having a vulnerable downstate greatly favors smaller groups because larger groups make up for lack of player skill (which is typical of the zergling mentality, and only following orders), by having alot of hands to revive players.

 

Downstate favours numbers, yes, but in oder to use warclaw you also needed numbers. The outnumbered side usually wants  everyone in the fight itself to generate downs, while for the side with superior numbers it was no big deal to have a few players mounted for insta stomps. So if you could afford to have mounted players you either weren't outnumbered, or you were so much better that you would have won the fight with a few more players actually fighting instead of waiting on mounts anyway.

  • Like 3
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/13/2021 at 11:42 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

Last time I checked people repaired walls to protect structures, not to keep participation. Guess all the karma train servers agreed on moaning on the forums. 

 

Only, tell me, would your spend your entire day repairing if it meant getting no rewards? would you defend a keep for hours, tiering it up to 3, battling against wave after wave of players, for no rewards, such as Bay, which does NOT give grace time from a defence event? Your only way of getting participation now when defending objectives and scouting is kills. All the enemy has to do is just, not show up for a short while, then zerg the place and GG. Hours spent defending an objective where you got no rewards are gone.
Or would you join a zerg, sit there as a face in a crowd, not pvp at all but K-train which is what these updates are doing, these updates are actually trying to remove all pvp aspect wvw has, and get rewarded for basically doing nothing but being a face in a crowd? 

I can tell you didn't read a single post on this entire thread. And just came here to troll. Most likely another PVE troll like UmbraNoctis who has not said a sensible thing on this thread yet that is worth reading. The warclaw was great for roamers and scouting, it made solo play more fun but of course, zergs nerfed it. It still needs to exist, wvw would die tomorrow if they removed Warclaw from it, it maintains balance between classes who are a lot faster then the slower ones. 

I just don't understand why anyone is for this, something that objectively makes wvw worse for everyone. Like its not even subjective here, we now all get less grace time, everyone, its a nerf in every meaning of the word. The only people this does not effect, are faces in the crowd zerglings. 

  • Like 4
  • Haha 2
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

Only, tell me, would your spend your entire day repairing if it meant getting no rewards? would you defend a keep for hours, tiering it up to 3, battling against wave after wave of players, for no rewards, such as Bay, which does NOT give grace time from a defence event? Your only way of getting participation now when defending objectives and scouting is kills. All the enemy has to do is just, not show up for a short while, then zerg the place and GG. Hours spent defending an objective where you got no rewards are gone.
Or would you join a zerg, sit there as a face in a crowd, not pvp at all but K-train which is what these updates are doing, these updates are actually trying to remove all pvp aspect wvw has, and get rewarded for basically doing nothing but being a face in a crowd? 

I can tell you didn't read a single post on this entire thread. And just came here to troll. Most likely another PVE troll like UmbraNoctis who has not said a sensible thing on this thread yet that is worth reading. The warclaw was great for roamers and scouting, it made solo play more fun but of course, zergs nerfed it. It still needs to exist, wvw would die tomorrow if they removed Warclaw from it, it maintains balance between classes who are a lot faster then the slower ones. 

I just don't understand why anyone is for this, something that objectively makes wvw worse for everyone. Like its not even subjective here, we now all get less grace time, everyone, its a nerf in every meaning of the word. The only people this does not effect, are faces in the crowd zerglings. 

But let me ask you:  Who wants to keep the structure?

 

I know that sounds like a young cat question but hear me out:  if the server wants the structure, and you are providing a valuable service to the Zerg, why isn’t the commander giving you shared participation?  
 

Those spots exist exactly for that purpose.  
 

If your Zergs commander doesn’t want you getting shared participation, then they don’t want scouts….  And they don’t care about the structure.

 

At that point, your job is pointless…. No one will come with a call out so then why keep repairing?  
 

Everyone is concerned about the PARTICIPATION but participation has a purpose.  What then, is the purpose of repairing a structure that your server doesn’t want?

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ultimately speaking, defending is a team effort. If you're trying to take the role of 30-40 people, then you will burn out, 2 extra greens or not.

You just kind of have to act in sync with what your community wants. If your server's doing stuff like not PPT'ing to t1, they may even see you as a nuisance. At this point on, you'll really have to consider what you're really trying to accomplish here and is there really a reason for you to stay.

But hey. You can go on strike. See how people react to no WPs, no information (so everyone misses out on fights), and drop like a rock to the bottom. Granted, a lot of people would just transfer off to find other PPT slaves, but you have to make your stand somewhere.

I know you may say "it shouldn't be that way". But that's just reality here.

Also yea, there seems to be bugs...

Anyhow, this comment isn't really regarding the actual rewards mechanic but is rather about the situation when it seems like the server as a whole doesn't want to keep stuff as Pj Strider alluded to with commanders not giving participation.

Now to be fair, commanders don't grow on trees. It also helps to be proactive to form a tag and gather whatever people are on it so you can get at least 1 person participation even if there is no real commanding going on.

Btw still disagree with the siege changes. I mean, you couldn't even pay me to use a treb, but in most cases the trebber doesn't even get the stupid champ bag.

 

  

On 11/14/2021 at 11:38 AM, Gorem.8104 said:

 

Only, tell me, would your spend your entire day repairing if it meant getting no rewards? would you defend a keep for hours, tiering it up to 3, battling against wave after wave of players, for no rewards, such as Bay, which does NOT give grace time from a defence event? Your only way of getting participation now when defending objectives and scouting is kills. All the enemy has to do is just, not show up for a short while, then zerg the place and GG. Hours spent defending an objective where you got no rewards are gone.

Actually yes, all the time.

This week, for example, I've only joined a zerg for 20 minutes running circles around SMC. It was boring so I stopped.

 

Though to be fair there was not much success, so doing the above rewarded more lmao.

I also logged in late Friday when I got a callout in Armistice Bastion that a group of rather notoriously BM folks was bullying our borderland defenders.

I wasn't even planning to go into WvW but I figured why the heck not and came to stop them from camping some objectives.  I mean, killing them was the reward. (although still kept at level 6, mostly)

I do sometimes partake in this karma train for an hour or two, but it gets very boring and karma is useless anyways. If I wanted to waste my time on that, I would ask 4 guildies and earn like 4x doing fractals.

Currently on Diamond 2.

If they're doing stuff like only capping when I log off, or just sending a zerg after me, I really don't care. I already did my part and if it takes a whole zerg to undo my work, that's something to be proud of.

Edited by ArchonWing.9480
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

Only, tell me, would your spend your entire day repairing if it meant getting no rewards? would you defend a keep for hours, tiering it up to 3, battling against wave after wave of players, for no rewards, such as Bay, which does NOT give grace time from a defence event? Your only way of getting participation now when defending objectives and scouting is kills. All the enemy has to do is just, not show up for a short while, then zerg the place and GG. Hours spent defending an objective where you got no rewards are gone.
Or would you join a zerg, sit there as a face in a crowd, not pvp at all but K-train which is what these updates are doing, these updates are actually trying to remove all pvp aspect wvw has, and get rewarded for basically doing nothing but being a face in a crowd? 

I can tell you didn't read a single post on this entire thread. And just came here to troll. Most likely another PVE troll like UmbraNoctis who has not said a sensible thing on this thread yet that is worth reading. The warclaw was great for roamers and scouting, it made solo play more fun but of course, zergs nerfed it. It still needs to exist, wvw would die tomorrow if they removed Warclaw from it, it maintains balance between classes who are a lot faster then the slower ones. 

I just don't understand why anyone is for this, something that objectively makes wvw worse for everyone. Like its not even subjective here, we now all get less grace time, everyone, its a nerf in every meaning of the word. The only people this does not effect, are faces in the crowd zerglings. 

See what I mean? First line and your message is already wrong. "spending your entire day repairing", really?

If Anet wants to enforce participation between players on their war gamemode I'm fine with it, I've never been a fan of karma pipe farmers in WvW to care. 

I find funny that you call me a PvE player while you are just a forum warrior, look at your participation on this thread, look at your arguments, moaning about not being able to properly PvE on WvW because repairing walls and protecting dolyaks doesn't give you participation.

"WvW would die tomorrow if they removed Warclaw" sure, buddy...

  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...