Echovald wilds critiques

[Animando.7956]

I find they did a good job....

 

https://imgur.com/a/at4qAU3

[Fueki.4753]

As a former (mostly) Kurzick player, I'm mostly disappointed with what has been shown. Nothing of what made the area neat in GW1 is present in the preview.

It simply looked like a variant of the HoT maps that's somewhat easier to navigate.

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[rylien.3824]

34 minutes ago, Animando.7956 said:

I find they did a good job....

 

https://imgur.com/a/at4qAU3

 

At the same time, it is the only area that seems to be successful, Echovald is not limited to the cathedral of Zu Heltzer my faith ... if not as much to make it a hub like the eye of the north in this rhythm.

 

It is even worse than a Living Story it is to say.
Even looking at the work done on the faces, not even have a Canthian...

 

Besides, if they follow their moldy principle, that the forest of Echovald has regained its original shape, then the "stone" of the cathedral should be wood and not stone with vegetation on it ... that proves although they have no knowledge of Guild Wars 1 (or just don't care).

 

[Kayberz.5346]

"Omg anet, not everything is a carbon copy from gw1 frozen in time as if nothing ever happened here, totally ruined, how dare you make the forest not be 100% gray and stone even though we literally unpetrified it at the end of gw1, i was expecting it to have the same exact gothic people in it 260 years later with zero deviation even though lore thats over a decade old now already established that wasn't going to be the case, how dare anet make a region develop and evolve in a way thats consistent with already long established lore"

Edited November 13, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[Sigerk.2897]

Love it. Colours are good, textures look good, I'm a sucker for forests and this seems like its going to be a good one that will be fun to explore. 

[witcher.3197]

48 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

"Omg anet, not everything is a carbon copy from gw1 frozen in time as if nothing ever happened here, totally ruined, how dare you make the forest not be 100% gray and stone even though we literally unpetrified it at the end of gw1, i was expecting it to have the same exact gothic people in it 260 years later with zero deviation even though lore thats over a decade old now already established that wasn't going to be the case, how dare anet make a region develop and evolve in a way thats consistent with already long established lore"

The difference between you and people like me is that you can go to another game if you don't like the look and feel of GW, but we can only get that here. So it's natural that we have certain expectations and things we're looking forward to.

And before you say "just go back to GW1",  trust me we would if Anet bothered to do anything with that game. But they don't, and we were promised a sequel that's "going to take everything we loved from the first one", so here we are.

Edited November 13, 2021 by witcher.3197

[Mizuira.8245]

49 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

"Omg anet, not everything is a carbon copy from gw1 frozen in time as if nothing ever happened here, totally ruined, how dare you make the forest not be 100% gray and stone even though we literally unpetrified it at the end of gw1, i was expecting it to have the same exact gothic people in it 260 years later with zero deviation even though lore thats over a decade old now already established that wasn't going to be the case, how dare anet make a region develop and evolve in a way thats consistent with already long established lore"

As a start they could also create real new assets and not re-using everything from HoT... But they didn't and now spit at GW1 fans 🙃

I already played in Maguuma years ago and don't see the point to go on Echovald if not for nostalgia or Kurzick "vibes". At least they admite their failure, saying themselves they didn't play GW1. Not a surprise their earnings for Q3 2021 is so low, they are even unable to sell a full fanservice expansion 😂

Edited November 13, 2021 by Mizuira.8245

[Xanadrine.4352]

I dont even get what the letters are for? is this some new fangled rating system?

[Duke Blackrose.4981]

1 hour ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

"Omg anet, not everything is a carbon copy from gw1 frozen in time as if nothing ever happened here, totally ruined, how dare you make the forest not be 100% gray and stone even though we literally unpetrified it at the end of gw1, i was expecting it to have the same exact gothic people in it 260 years later with zero deviation even though lore thats over a decade old now already established that wasn't going to be the case, how dare anet make a region develop and evolve in a way thats consistent with already long established lore"

We don't expect it to be exactly the same as it was. We expect it to be recognizable and respectful. There was a happy balance to be struck between petrification and regrowth. That balance was not struck. It's not an evolution of an old setting, but rather something new and grossly more generic.

[Kayberz.5346]

Funny how if you read the comments you would think most people dont like it, yet when you look at actual poll results the exact opposite is true

 

Pessimistic vocal minority doing what they do best, being impossible to please and making sure everyone else knows it

[Sigmoid.7082]

16 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Funny how if you read the comments you would think most people dont like it, yet when you look at actual poll results the exact opposite is true

 

Pessimistic vocal minority doing what they do best, being impossible to please and making sure everyone else knows it

Its just how its going to be for a lot of Cantha.

 

"This doesn't appeal to my personal sense of nostalgia therefore its bad" is going to be a prevalent complaint.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Sigmoid.7082

[Infusion.7149]

I don't understand the complaints about grass in Echovald. It's Echovald Wilds now.

We're talking about a zone that has evolved from GW1 , it isn't supposed to be GW1 set in GW2 time.

[Debesyla.7102]

And Ascalon should be without any plants too, because GW1 🙂

[Zauriel Mooncat.4968]

I just find it funny how many here are talking about how it doesnt look like the original or what ever lore they wanna talk about but in reality, almost no one really cares? Its pointless and useless at this point.

 

It only comes down to "what do I get from this map?" and if the map has terrible loot and worthless events that dont keep you engaged with a good variety of goods, guess what? It can look like the fanciest map ever, replicate on point the look of the original, and have the best lore, but no one will give a kitten about this map 3 weeks later, many will just go back to the meta maps that actually keeps the pockets full, and the map will become a desert pretty much 3 months later, and that estimation is a VERY generous one XD

 

I only hope they implement a good loot system to keep these new maps alive, or else, is a failure, no matter how "respectful" the lore is to the original or how "the map feeling" is. ALL comes down to monetary benefits, if thats not there, its useless in the long run, and maps like Drizzle, RIBA, or popular picks like fractals and raids prove my point. 

[witcher.3197]

17 minutes ago, Zauriel Mooncat.4968 said:

I just find it funny how many here are talking about how it doesnt look like the original or what ever lore they wanna talk about but in reality, almost no one really cares? Its pointless and useless at this point.

 

It only comes down to "what do I get from this map?" and if the map has terrible loot and worthless events that dont keep you engaged with a good variety of goods, guess what? It can look like the fanciest map ever, replicate on point the look of the original, and have the best lore, but no one will give a kitten about this map 3 weeks later, many will just go back to the meta maps that actually keeps the pockets full, and the map will become a desert pretty much 3 months later, and that estimation is a VERY generous one XD

 

I only hope they implement a good loot system to keep these new maps alive, or else, is a failure, no matter how "respectful" the lore is to the original or how "the map feeling" is. ALL comes down to monetary benefits, if thats not there, its useless in the long run, and maps like Drizzle, RIBA, or popular picks like fractals and raids prove my point. 

You are talking from the perspective of someone who is invested in GW2 and cares more about the rewards.

What you fail to realize is that Anet took us to Cantha for a reason, they are hoping to cash in on the nostalgia and lure people back who had already left the game. If that wasn't the case they would've simply put a halt to the IBS and gave us the rest in an expansion, but no, they axed IBS to take us to the other side of the planet to a fan favorite continent. Wonder why..

So yes, doing it justice does matter, otherwise all the alienated people won't come back and won't stick around, and the couple dozen people casting votes on a forum where you risk getting banned for being negative is not a good way to measure success.

 

 

[Kayberz.5346]

11 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

You are talking from the perspective of someone who is invested in GW2 and cares more about the rewards.

What you fail to realize is that Anet took us to Cantha for a reason, they are hoping to cash in on the nostalgia and lure people back who had already left the game. If that wasn't the case they would've simply put a halt to the IBS and gave us the rest in an expansion, but no, they axed IBS to take us to the other side of the planet to a fan favorite continent. Wonder why..

So yes, doing it justice does matter, otherwise all the alienated people won't come back and won't stick around, and the couple dozen people casting votes on a forum where you risk getting banned for being negative is not a good way to measure success.

 

 

This literally makes zero sense

 

They cant just "pause" the IBS story and then do cantha and then pick back up with IBS

 

You do realize the entire plot of this franchise has been planned out far ahead for years right? The story in cantha likely wouldn't make any sense if jormag and primordus are still alive

 

They rushed IBS out way faster than it should have been because they wanted to make an expansion,  the last half of IBS wasn't enough content to warrant an entire expansion and they knew cantha was the next stop after the IBS, so they opted to gut IBS in order to fast forward the story

Edited November 13, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[InsaneQR.7412]

Looks good. Like the verticality and the looks.

I hope its the only real vertical map alla HoT. 

I like the lore implications and the architecture. Cant wait to explore.

Edited November 13, 2021 by InsaneQR.7412

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

This literally makes zero sense

They cant just "pause" the IBS story and then do cantha and then pick back up with IBS

The point (as I understood the comment) was that instead of being Cantha, the third expansion would have been a significantly more fleshed out second half of the Icebrood Saga. There are people who believe the saga was cut short specifically to bring people back to a place that is supposed to stimulate nostalgia (Cantha). However, so far everything they presented failed to stimulate nostalgia.

If there goal was just to bring in any candy-raining meta like Drizzlewood Coast or The Silverwastes, they wouldn't have to bring Cantha. It's obvious that people thinking about why Cantha and not literally anywhere else. And for the why, only be two possible reasons come to my mind:

1) nostalgia, as already mentioned

2) The developers don't want to invent the cultures and biomes that are outside the known landmasses of Tyria, so they simply chose to reinvent last remaining known area from GW1 that's big enough to fill an expansion.

And given these two options, I think the first one is far more likely.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Kayberz.5346]

40 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The point (as I understood the comment) was that instead of being Cantha, the third expansion would have been a significantly more fleshed out second half of the Icebrood Saga. There are people who believe the saga was cut short specifically to bring people back to a place that is supposed to stimulate nostalgia (Cantha). However, so far everything they presented failed to stimulate nostalgia.

If there goal was just to bring in any candy-raining meta like Drizzlewood Coast or The Silverwastes, they wouldn't have to bring Cantha. It's obvious that people thinking about why Cantha and not literally anywhere else. And for the why, only be two possible reasons come to my mind:

1) nostalgia, as already mentioned

2) The developers don't want to invent the cultures and biomes that are outside the known landmasses of Tyria, so they simply chose to reinvent last remaining known area from GW1 that's big enough to fill an expansion.

And given these two options, I think the first one is far more likely.

OR.....The way more likely explanation :

 

anet wasn't planning on making an expansion after PoF and they started the story of IBS which was going to last probably another year or two longer than it did, then midway through IBS the plans changed and NCSoft said they needed to make an expansion. They were already midway through the jormag vs primordus plot they had planned out, the other half of the IBS story wasn't going to have enough meat to warrant an entire expansion and they knew that the next phase of the story after jormag and primordus were dead was going to take us to Cantha, which has probably been the plan for years, so instead of making an expansion with only half the remaining plot of IBS as the narrative focus with likely not a whole lot of ideas for how to fit new expansion level masteries and content into it, which would have made for a very lackluster expansion, they instead decided the best option given the circumstances was to simply gut the second half of the IBS and rush the narrative forward so that the 3rd expansion could then have an actual expansion worthy setting and a good fresh starting point to work with in Cantha

 

They dont just create expansion ideas on the spot, the entire narrative and plot of gw2 has been planned out for years, they have flexibility when it comes to the nitty gritty details and supporting characters and minor plots, but as far as the major story beats such as, the order we fight each individual elder dragon or which regions of the world we are going to while doing so are very likely set in stone with very little wiggle room because changing those things would compromise the cohesiveness of the long term narrative they have planned

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[Poormany.4507]

44 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

They were already midway through the jormag vs primordus plot they had planned out, the other half of the IBS story wasn't going to have enough meat to warrant an entire expansion and they knew that the next phase of the story after jormag and primordus were dead was going to take us to Cantha, which has probably been the plan for years

It seemed very obvious that a ton of content in the Saga got axed in favor of EoD. Cutting out an entire 1-3 maps from the Saga doesn't give the vibe that there "wasn't going to be enough meat." There could have easily been a whole expac or another LW season entirely about Primordus and ending with the events of Dragonstorm (which I suspect was initially planned before the Saga began or even as far as the prologue to first episode were developed, hence the "expansion-level" features promise before the Saga). To me, it seems like Cantha and EoD were just NCSoft wanting profits from an expac as soon as possible and banking on nostalgia/Cantha hype to do so. However, by  cutting the Saga and making the second half lower quality in order to do so, justifiably raised most players' expectations for EoD by a ton.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[Cyndercat.7615]

57 minutes ago, Poormany.4507 said:

However, by  cutting the Saga and making the second half lower quality in order to do so, justifiably raised most players' expectations for EoD by a ton.

This perfectly describes how I feel. They trashed primordus' 10 year setup for this expansion so it better be worth it. So far it is not. Nothing but recycled animations, recycles assets, recycled textures and even recycled enemies. Oh and fishing, as a main feature. >>

[Kayberz.5346]

1 hour ago, Poormany.4507 said:

It seemed very obvious that a ton of content in the Saga got axed in favor of EoD. Cutting out an entire 1-3 maps from the Saga doesn't give the vibe that there "wasn't going to be enough meat." There could have easily been a whole expac or another LW season entirely about Primordus and ending with the events of Dragonstorm (which I feel like was initially planned before the Saga began or as far as the prologue to first episode were developed, hence the "expansion-level" features promise before the Saga). To me, it seems like Cantha and EoD were just NCSoft wanting profits from an expac as soon as possible and banking on nostalgia/Cantha hype to do so. However, by  cutting the Saga and making the second half lower quality in order to do so, justifiably raised most players' expectations for EoD by a ton.

Obviously we as the players and an audience to the story lose in this situation, what they did to the second half of IBS was a tragedy from a player point of view.

 

But the reality is the only way games of the quality of GW2 get created is through the funding of big companies like NCSoft which have to answer to shareholders.

 

Given the likely situation that if the 3rd expansion doesn't do well then we probably wont get a 4th and NCSoft wasn't going to give anet the 1-2 more years it probably would have taken to finish IBS as living world style content, I much prefer the route they took than the potential alternative.

 

If they tried to pivot the second half of the IBS as the focus of an entire expansion i don't think it would do nearly as well as EoD potentially can, sure it would be better in the short term but would you really want them to try and stretch out a living world season into an entire expansion and then potentially have the follow up cantha part of gw2 story be stuck as IBS style living world content in little pieces at a time which is what would likely happen if the expansion flopped, which it probably would considering they would be trying to make an expansion out of half a ongoing plot rather than a fresh setting and starting point

 

At this point the damage is done, we'll find out if it was worth it after Eod launches 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

I've enjoyed what I've seen so far, especially since ANet has repeated time and time again during livestream that they couldn't reveal the majority of the content in the area yet because there's too much spoiler content if they did. 

Considering the limited amount of stuff they could reveal, I'm pretty confident there's more to Echovald Wilds than what was showcased. That said, I've still got tempered expectations on the expac as a whole cuz I know expecting too much isn't the best thing to do with modern video games in general. 

[Zauriel Mooncat.4968]

3 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

You are talking from the perspective of someone who is invested in GW2 and cares more about the rewards.

What you fail to realize is that Anet took us to Cantha for a reason, they are hoping to cash in on the nostalgia and lure people back who had already left the game. If that wasn't the case they would've simply put a halt to the IBS and gave us the rest in an expansion, but no, they axed IBS to take us to the other side of the planet to a fan favorite continent. Wonder why..

So yes, doing it justice does matter, otherwise all the alienated people won't come back and won't stick around, and the couple dozen people casting votes on a forum where you risk getting banned for being negative is not a good way to measure success.

 

 

 Yet still rewards remains as top priority. 

 

Dont get me wrong I understsnd your point, and I do am invested in the game in many ways including its lore, but in the end what keeps the game afloat is, in its heaviest part, the reward system, and this post have just gotten pretty negative replies and toxic responses all towards just its look and feel XD is like... what? That is, fundamentally, a small part of the whole thing. 

 

People that have gone many times go due to the lack of activities that make the time worth investing in, and few of them may have the reason you say they left, and even so, the only way to retain people in the game is the rewards, the content, the satisfactions of getting your time worth instead of doing one same thing 7 hours to just get nothing in return and just a story in an MMO. 

 

And look I am not against any one here all points are valid in favor and against, but it is an undeniable fact that the content on itself that will keep the most people interacting for the longest time should be the focus of what is best on this expansion, what one gets in return from their grind and their time. 

[solarisnox.8521]

4 hours ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

I've enjoyed what I've seen so far, especially since ANet has repeated time and time again during livestream that they couldn't reveal the majority of the content in the area yet because there's too much spoiler content if they did. 

Considering the limited amount of stuff they could reveal, I'm pretty confident there's more to Echovald Wilds than what was showcased. That said, I've still got tempered expectations on the expac as a whole cuz I know expecting too much isn't the best thing to do with modern video games in general. 

 

Hmmm...do you think it's possible that they're lying about the so called "too much spoiler content"?  Not to rip on the devs, but it just doesn't look like there could be that much extra content, compared to what we've seen from earlier expansions and the marketing for them.

 

I am of the mind that they will say whatever they are told to say to keep their jobs, and if ncsoft says "don't effing tell them this is a last gasp money grab", then they're probably not going to.  I could be wrong, but I was already deeply disturbed by how cringey and awkward the first couple of livestreams were, as they were clearly trying to read off a teleprompter, meaning Someone had written out a specific Script for them, something the devs have never needed in the 9+ years that I've been playing, at least not that I've noticed.

 

Based on what I've seen, the EoD content looks disturbingly weak and poorly done.  All but 2 of the elite specs need major reworks, and at least 3 pretty much need to be scrapped completely and redesigned from the ground up.  And of course, that's not going to happen.  Add to that, that most mounts are, apparently, going to be disabled for Cantha.  The 4 relatively small maps compared to recent content we've gotten in the last 4 years.  And oh boy, "fishing"...literally the last thing I could ever had thought of for an addition to the gw2 universe.

 

I am experiencing deep and profound misgivings about this "expansion".