Echovald wilds critiques

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

42 minutes ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

 

Hmmm...do you think it's possible that they're lying about the so called "too much spoiler content"?  Not to rip on the devs, but it just doesn't look like there could be that much extra content, compared to what we've seen from earlier expansions and the marketing for them.

 

I am of the mind that they will say whatever they are told to say to keep their jobs, and if ncsoft says "don't effing tell them this is a last gasp money grab", then they're probably not going to.  I could be wrong, but I was already deeply disturbed by how cringey and awkward the first couple of livestreams were, as they were clearly trying to read off a teleprompter, meaning Someone had written out a specific Script for them, something the devs have never needed in the 9+ years that I've been playing, at least not that I've noticed.

 

Based on what I've seen, the EoD content looks disturbingly weak and poorly done.  All but 2 of the elite specs need major reworks, and at least 3 pretty much need to be scrapped completely and redesigned from the ground up.  And of course, that's not going to happen.  Add to that, that most mounts are, apparently, going to be disabled for Cantha.  The 4 relatively small maps compared to recent content we've gotten in the last 4 years.  And oh boy, "fishing"...literally the last thing I could ever had thought of for an addition to the gw2 universe.

 

I am experiencing deep and profound misgivings about this "expansion".

That's a you problem. I've had no issues with anything they've showcased so far aside from E-Specs, but the reason I have issues with E-Specs is because I actually got to play them. You sound like you're forcing too much of your own personal expectations, so that's definitely your issue, not mine. 

[Kayberz.5346]

59 minutes ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

 

Hmmm...do you think it's possible that they're lying about the so called "too much spoiler content"?  Not to rip on the devs, but it just doesn't look like there could be that much extra content, compared to what we've seen from earlier expansions and the marketing for them.

 

I am of the mind that they will say whatever they are told to say to keep their jobs, and if ncsoft says "don't effing tell them this is a last gasp money grab", then they're probably not going to.  I could be wrong, but I was already deeply disturbed by how cringey and awkward the first couple of livestreams were, as they were clearly trying to read off a teleprompter, meaning Someone had written out a specific Script for them, something the devs have never needed in the 9+ years that I've been playing, at least not that I've noticed.

 

Based on what I've seen, the EoD content looks disturbingly weak and poorly done.  All but 2 of the elite specs need major reworks, and at least 3 pretty much need to be scrapped completely and redesigned from the ground up.  And of course, that's not going to happen.  Add to that, that most mounts are, apparently, going to be disabled for Cantha.  The 4 relatively small maps compared to recent content we've gotten in the last 4 years.  And oh boy, "fishing"...literally the last thing I could ever had thought of for an addition to the gw2 universe.

 

I am experiencing deep and profound misgivings about this "expansion".

Literally everything you said in this post was cringe inducing nonsense, what the hell are you even going on about with mounts being disabled. they have said the exact opposite multiple times, and where the hell are you even getting your information about the maps? 4 "small" maps? They have only shown us 2 of them, and of the 2 they showed they only previewed a small fraction of the map. The Echovald forest map had like 45 points of interest which would make it as big or bigger than most path of fire maps which are the biggest maps they've made. And were you even around for the previous 2 expansions? They literally showed only 1/3rd of the first maps of each expansion with barely any events, this is the most they have ever showed before an expansion by a longshot 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Just now, Kayberz.5346 said:

Literally everything you said in this post was cringe inducing nonsense, where the hell are you even going on about with mounts being disabled. they have said the exact opposite multiple times, and where the hell are you even getting your information about the maps? 4 "small" maps? They have only shown us 2 of them, and of the 2 they showed they only previewed a small fraction of the map with the echovald forest map had like 45 points of interest which would make it as big or bigger than most path of fire maps which are the biggest maps they've made

 

 

It's amazing how these "deep and profound" replies are always the cringe filled backseat developers who think they know everything when they have nothing to prove lel 

[solarisnox.8521]

8 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

That's a you problem. I've had no issues with anything they've showcased so far aside from E-Specs, but the reason I have issues with E-Specs is because I actually got to play them. You sound like you're forcing too much of your own personal expectations, so that's definitely your issue, not mine. 

nope, I actually played them all as well, and they are extremely troubling.  The rest is just additionally problematic when I see how much there really doesn't seem to be.  But the specs alone are enough to make me reconsider playing or buying.

[solarisnox.8521]

11 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Literally everything you said in this post was cringe inducing nonsense, where the hell are you even going on about with mounts being disabled. they have said the exact opposite multiple times, and where the hell are you even getting your information about the maps? 4 "small" maps? They have only shown us 2 of them, and of the 2 they showed they only previewed a small fraction of the map with the echovald forest map had like 45 points of interest which would make it as big or bigger than most path of fire maps which are the biggest maps they've made

 

 

um...yeah, but no, not really.  I've watched all the livestreams, and dozens of other content creators, and more than one have commented on the limited mount selection we will have access to at launch.  And yes, "small" maps.  The entire "continent" of cantha makes up only a tiny portion of elona.  How you think you were able to count 45 poi's is curious, but tbh, it's more about the elite specs, and the massive emphasis on...ugh..."fishing".  literally the most boring thing in any game ever.  In 9+years of playing, I've literally Never seen anyone in any chat channel anywhere in the game, or in any discord, EVER suggest anything like: "y'know what would TOTALLY make this game awesome??? FISHING!!".  Said literally: No. One. Ever.

Edited November 14, 2021 by solarisnox.8521

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

23 minutes ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

yes, that is exactly me, "backseat developer", thank you Jessica Price, LoL.  I don't think I've suggested at any point that I "know everything", but I'm able to look at my own experiences with the extremely poorly designed elite specs, and be appropriately discouraged.  But, hey, you keep kissing anet's back side, as they shovel half assed, poorly designed content out to you and the other eager masses, lol

You literally just went through an entire textwall of "profound misgivings" because you kept pushing stupid high expectations on ANet when you literally have no idea on the amount of things they went through over the years that made development difficult thanks to an incapable publishing parent that leeches off them. 

So again, that's a you problem. I've tempered mine because I've seen ANet's ups and downs. And no, for the record I already told ANet plenty of times how they've messed up E-Specs alone, I've simply stated I'm satisfied with what I saw with the Echovald Wilds preview. If I'm gonna be disappointed with anything else, that's a "To Be Determined" situation

But hey, you're welcome to continue having deep and profound thoughts of how ANet half-skritts things.

Edited November 14, 2021 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[solarisnox.8521]

On 11/12/2021 at 2:31 PM, radda.8920 said:

It looks good visually. In the sense that we find good colors and normal saturation and not the horror of shing jea. But it looks like a generic maguma map, I even had the impression of seeing Auric Bassin a few times .. The textures, vegetation, tree trunks and even some structures are exactly  the same.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with echovald. All the originality of the guild wars 1 area is lost: no more stone, no more sinister and gothic atmosphere, no more yellow stained glass with amber, no more mysterious and oppressive environment. It's a total failure at this level once again

 

But I understood the reason during the live. Echovald's developer makes it clear that she has never played guild wars 1. How do you want to respect the soul and style of this iconic map without ever having played the original game. Mind-blowing....

 

As for the content, we haven't seen much, the events seem basic and without challenge as usual but we will see later. The new faction and the jade structures, it's totally ridiculous, however, I already miss the kurzicks people 😔

I agree,

It seems to me like there is a giant disconnect between development teams, and no real overriding guidance.  I think they may be either lacking development leadership, or the leadership they have is incompetent, because the discrepancies between the thematic designs and the character designs, per elite spec, are really glaring and suggest a complete breakdown in communication between teams.

The idea that someone wasn't able to offer guidance on what the echovald map *should* look like, is deeply problematic.  But again, also suggests that there are a lot of corners being cut, which is also obvious in the elite specs.

 

[Kayberz.5346]

26 minutes ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

um...yeah, but no, not really.  I've watched all the livestreams, and dozens of other content creators, and more than one have commented on the limited mount selection we will have access to at launch.  And yes, "small" maps.  The entire "continent" of cantha makes up only a tiny portion of elona.  How you think you were able to count 45 poi's is curious, but tbh, it's more about the elite specs, and the massive emphasis on...ugh..."fishing".  literally the most boring thing in any game ever.  In 9+years of playing, I've literally seen anyone in any chat channel anywhere in the game, or in any discord, EVER suggest anything like: "y'know what would TOTALLY make this game awesome??? FISHING!!".  Said literally: No. One. Ever.

Well you obviously are very bad at comprehending information if you claim to have watched all the live streams and multiple videos about the expansion and still believe there will be any restrictions on mounts at all, and i didn't "count" the pois, you can literally see the map poi count pop up on the livestreams when they discover a location and your comment on the size of cantha relative to elona just gives another example of how bad at parsing information you are when you consider that a vast majority of the continent of elona isnt even playable space in gw2 even with the massive maps in it

 

you really aren't proving your takes to be worth much of anything 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[solarisnox.8521]

8 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

You literally just went through an entire textwall of "profound misgivings" because you kept pushing stupid high expectations on ANet when you literally have no idea on the amount of things they went through over the years that made development difficult thanks to an incapable publishing parent that leeches off them. 

So again, that's a you problem. I've tempered mine because I've seen ANet's ups and downs. And no, for the record I already told ANet plenty of times how they've messed up E-Specs alone, I've simply stated I'm satisfied with what I saw with the Echovald Wilds preview. If I'm gonna be disappointed with anything else, that's a "To Be Determined" situation

But hey, you're welcome to continue having deep and profound thoughts of how ANet half-skritts things because apparently you know better. 

LoL, yeah, sure, you be you, cowboy.

 

Yes, I have deep and abiding misgivings, not because I have "unrealistic expectations" and not because I "don't know all they've been through".

 

My misgivings are based on the 9+ years of playing and supporting the company, Through all their ups and downs, and continuing to observe a generally superior level of original and innovative content development, within the existing thematic framework of the Guildwars Universe.  Until Now.

 

Now I'm seeing exactly what I described: half assed and poorly "designed" elite specifications from people who seem not to have ever played the game and have no real familiarity with the existing thematic framework.  And in a game like gw2, the Thematic Framework guides Everything. 

As a consumer, I have poured tons of my own personal money into supporting this game.  And, as a consumer, I have every right to expect a company of the caliber of Arena Net to live up to it's own reputation, and it's own exceptional standards.  If I see those standards fall off dramatically, am I supposed to just say "Oh...well...clearly this is going to completely suck and be a total waste of my money, okay, here you go, take my $100"??  Is that what I'm supposed to do?  Continue to pour my hard earned money into a now sub-standard product?  Is that what You would do?

 

My "concerns" are that, given what I *have* seen, and my experience with games in general, when I start to see things like: reskinning old specs instead of actually creating something new and innovative; "breaking the rules" to create things that make zero sense within the framework of the existing lore because someone is not creative enough to invent something that works within the lore AND is inventive and innovative, (think "I'm gonna use my starship as a hyperspace bullet to destroy that fleet of ships because apparently no one in the 20,000 years of the galactice empire has EVER had this idea, and completely break the star wars universe because I'm ryan round head johnson who cant come up with an original idea to save my life and I don't care about star wars anyway). 

That's pretty much the vibe I'm getting, and it's the TREND that I'm seeing, that I find concerning.  Because if they're already struggling with just living up to the standards of the Core game, then there really isn't anywhere for them to go.  And yeah, it kittening sucks because of every game I've ever played, I've loved this one the most, and put more time and energy and money into than any other.

I'm well aware of how vile and rapacious publishing companies like NCSoft are.  But Anet has been working with them for nearly 20 years, so this shouldn't be anything new.

[solarisnox.8521]

5 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Well you obviously are very bad at comprehending information if you claim to have watched all the live streams and multiple videos about the expansion and still believe there will be any restrictions on mounts at all, and i didn't "count" the pois, you can literally see the map poi count pop up on the livestreams when they discover a location and your comment on the size of cantha relative to elona just gives another example of how bad at parsing information you are when you consider that a vast majority of the continent of elona isnt even playable space in gw2 even with the massive maps in it

 

you really aren't proving your takes to be worth much of anything 

don't be dumb, I obviously wasn't talking about the non-playable spaces in elona, kitten.  WP said explicitly that mounts would be limited to, iirc, Raptor. And the ridiculous siege turtle, which while sort of an interesting idea, is only going to be useful for pve siege, obviously.  I've seen people on various mounts, so maybe they changed that since the video he made, but that's where I got that specific information from, and it would not surprise me if they turned mounts off for cantha, at launch.  I believe his reasoning, from the dev's, was they didn't want all the new people to be feeling "left out" because they didn't have all the different mounts that everyone else had.  But man, you totally Got me on the poi count. Good on you! You're the Best! Go You!  Here's your participation trophy.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

1 minute ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

LoL, yeah, sure, you be you, cowboy.

 

Yes, I have deep and abiding misgivings, not because I have "unrealistic expectations" and not because I "don't know all they've been through".

 

My misgivings are based on the 9+ years of playing and supporting the company, Through all their ups and downs, and continuing to observe a generally superior level of original and innovative content development, within the existing thematic framework of the Guildwars Universe.  Until Now.

 

Now I'm seeing exactly what I described: half assed and poorly "designed" elite specifications from people who seem not to have ever played the game and have no real familiarity with the existing thematic framework.  And in a game like gw2, the Thematic Framework guides Everything. 

As a consumer, I have poured tons of my own personal money into supporting this game.  And, as a consumer, I have every right to expect a company of the caliber of Arena Net to live up to it's own reputation, and it's own exceptional standards.  If I see those standards fall off dramatically, am I supposed to just say "Oh...well...clearly this is going to completely suck and be a total waste of my money, okay, here you go, take my $100"??  Is that what I'm supposed to do?  Continue to pour my hard earned money into a now sub-standard product?  Is that what You would do?

 

My "concerns" are that, given what I *have* seen, and my experience with games in general, when I start to see things like: reskinning old specs instead of actually creating something new and innovative; "breaking the rules" to create things that make zero sense within the framework of the existing lore because someone is not creative enough to invent something that works within the lore AND is inventive and innovative, (think "I'm gonna use my starship as a hyperspace bullet to destroy that fleet of ships because apparently no one in the 20,000 years of the galactice empire has EVER had this idea, and completely break the star wars universe because I'm ryan round head johnson who cant come up with an original idea to save my life and I don't care about star wars anyway). 

That's pretty much the vibe I'm getting, and it's the TREND that I'm seeing, that I find concerning.  Because if they're already struggling with just living up to the standards of the Core game, then there really isn't anywhere for them to go.  And yeah, it kittening sucks because of every game I've ever played, I've loved this one the most, and put more time and energy and money into than any other.

I'm well aware of how vile and rapacious publishing companies like NCSoft are.  But Anet has been working with them for nearly 20 years, so this shouldn't be anything new.

If we're going to bring up the amount of years you've supported this game, then you've got absolutely nothing against the 16 years I've poured into this series and company since the first Prophecies campaign when our character select screen literally had our characters lined up and they ran towards us when selecting them. So maybe don't bother bringing that up because that's a pretty moot point in the video game industry as companies change and so do their development philosophies. 

I never said that you should just outright see the flaws and "accept them", it's fine if you have your gripes. Like I said, it's a you problem. My issues lie in the fact that you're far too busy hating on ANet to see that others genuinely do support ANet and enjoy the content they see with the expansion, even if they aren't exactly up to par on what they were before. Whilst I've been satisfied with my own personal expectations on what ANet has delivered, especially because of what NCSoft did to them, I'm not gonna let someone ruin that for me because they think it's trash and therefore everyone should suddenly see it as trash as well. 

Once more, and I will say it again, if you've got gripes with the current state of EOD, that's a you problem. Undermining my own thoughts like you just did in the three times you quoted me only proves to me that you are indeed trying to push your own stupidly high expectations when I don't need you to do that for me. 

[solarisnox.8521]

4 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

If we're going to bring up the amount of years you've supported this game, then you've got absolutely nothing against the 16 years I've poured into this series and company since the first Prophecies campaign when our character select screen literally had our characters lined up and they ran towards us when selecting them. So maybe don't bother bringing that up because that's a pretty moot point in the video game industry as companies change and so do their development philosophies. 

I never said that you should just outright see the flaws and "accept them", it's fine if you have your gripes. Like I said, it's a you problem. My issues lie in the fact that you're far too busy hating on ANet to see that others genuinely do support ANet and enjoy the content they see with the expansion, even if they aren't exactly up to par on what they were before. Whilst I've been satisfied with my own personal expectations on what ANet has delivered, especially because of what NCSoft did to them, I'm not gonna let someone ruin that for me because they think it's trash and therefore everyone should suddenly see it as trash as well. 

Once more, and I will say it again, if you've got gripes with the current state of EOD, that's a you problem. Undermining my own thoughts like you just did in the three times you quoted me only proves to me that you are indeed trying to push your own stupidly high expectations when I don't need you to do that for me. 

Well, again, no, it's really not, it's just my observations of a disturbingly reduced standard of creativity and development.  But even if it were "my problem", what of it?  I've simply been expressing my observations, wasn't demanding that You or anyone else agree with me.  They are an observation of significantly lowered standards.  I didn't set those standards.  Anet did, when they created a game that is absolutely superior in nearly every way that matters, to me. I have also been extremely satisfied with my experience with anet for the 9+ years that I've been playing, and yes, I'll bring it up again because your extra 7 years don't diminish my history with the game.  So stop being passive aggressive and stop trying to gaslight me.  

 

My observations are entirely valid in light of the exceptional standard they've set for themselves over the years.  This is not a "me" problem, this is a simple observation.  But my observations are just that: mine.  I haven't at any point said or even suggested that You or anyone else should also have the same observations as I do.  As an adult and design professional, I am capable of having a rational discussion that includes disagreement and opposing views, without feeling the need to evaluate or gaslight the person I'm having a discussion with.  Apparently, you are incapable of separating the idea that I am entitled to my observations and opinion, without any necessity to impose my opinions on you, or convert your opinions to agree with mine, and that is most definitely a "You" problem.

 

[Fueki.4753]

9 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

OR.....The way more likely explanation :

 

anet wasn't planning on making an expansion after PoF and they started the story of IBS which was going to last probably another year or two longer than it did, then midway through IBS the plans changed and NCSoft said they needed to make an expansion. They were already midway through the jormag vs primordus plot they had planned out, the other half of the IBS story wasn't going to have enough meat to warrant an entire expansion and they knew that the next phase of the story after jormag and primordus were dead was going to take us to Cantha, which has probably been the plan for years, so instead of making an expansion with only half the remaining plot of IBS as the narrative focus with likely not a whole lot of ideas for how to fit new expansion level masteries and content into it, which would have made for a very lackluster expansion, they instead decided the best option given the circumstances was to simply gut the second half of the IBS and rush the narrative forward so that the 3rd expansion could then have an actual expansion worthy setting and a good fresh starting point to work with in Cantha

They dont just create expansion ideas on the spot, the entire narrative and plot of gw2 has been planned out for years, they have flexibility when it comes to the nitty gritty details and supporting characters and minor plots, but as far as the major story beats such as, the order we fight each individual elder dragon or which regions of the world we are going to while doing so are very likely set in stone with very little wiggle room because changing those things would compromise the cohesiveness of the long term narrative they have planned

 

Your "explanation" is thoroughly lacking the why Cantha I brought up.

It was cut short to make any expansion. It could have been literally anywhere else.

It could have been Charr homelands.

It could have been the very far north Shiverpeaks, where they could have staged an expansion that leads into the conclusion with Jormag alone (no Primordus involved).

It could have been some cosmic fanciness, like with FF14's Shadowbringers and WoW's Shadowlands, based on the cancelled Utopia campaign for GW1.

So, why is it Cantha in your "explanation" and not anywhere else?

And no, they definitely didn't already know it's going to Cantha next. They didn't even know what to do after Kralkatorrik died. I doubt they were even planning to involve Primordus in the Icebrood Saga at all, until they had to rush the second half and used him as a mcguffin instead of building his momentum as a villain in his own arc.

Given the pacing up until Drizzlewood Coast, it seemed obvious to me that they have far more planned for the second half than repeat the near-identical missions twelve times and Dragon Breeze. Instead of it being the third expansion (as suggested above), they could even just have given us one final Living World chapter dealing with (and killing) Jormag instead of the DRM drag and then they could have used the Primordus arc, which many people have been waiting for since GW1, in an expansion.

In my opinion, that'd have been better than the handling of Cantha by developers who never played factions and thus don't understand anything of it and why it was liked so much. They didn't even bother picking up the thematics of Winds of Change as part of their expansion and basically said "that's in the past, we don't want to have anything to do with that."

Edited November 14, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

1 minute ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

Well, again, no, it's really not, it's just my observations of a disturbingly reduced standard of creativity and development.  But even if it were "my problem", what of it?  I've simply been expressing my observations, wasn't demanding that You or anyone else agree with me.  They are an observation of significantly lowered standards.  I didn't set those standards.  Anet did, when they created a game that is absolutely superior in nearly every way that matters, to me. I have also been extremely satisfied with my experience with anet for the 9+ years that I've been playing, and yes, I'll bring it up again because your extra 7 years don't diminish my history with the game.  So stop being passive aggressive and stop trying to gaslight me.  

 

My observations are entirely valid in light of the exceptional standard they've set for themselves over the years.  This is not a "me" problem, this is a simple observation.  But my observations are just that: mine.  I haven't at any point said or even suggested that You or anyone else should also have the same observations as I do.  As an adult and design professional, I am capable of having a rational discussion that includes disagreement and opposing views, without feeling the need to evaluate or gaslight the person I'm having a discussion with.  Apparently, you are incapable of separating the idea that I am entitled to my observations and opinion, without any necessity to impose my opinions on you, or convert your opinions to agree with mine, and that is most definitely a "You" problem.

 

If it's an issue you've observed, that's all well and good, and people have agreed that they also see that issue, but I'm not one of those people who are in that position. I've kept myself away from the people who see the fundamental flaws of EOD because I'm not in the same rabbit hole they or you are, I'm keeping a more positive light to what's currently happening, especially given the circumstance. What you literally did is quoted my positive feedback and piggybacked on it with your negative feedback in order to emphasize the negatives of EOD. 

If you're not seeing that issue, let's remember your entire textwall

2 hours ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

 

Hmmm...do you think it's possible that they're lying about the so called "too much spoiler content"?  Not to rip on the devs, but it just doesn't look like there could be that much extra content, compared to what we've seen from earlier expansions and the marketing for them.

 

I am of the mind that they will say whatever they are told to say to keep their jobs, and if ncsoft says "don't effing tell them this is a last gasp money grab", then they're probably not going to.  I could be wrong, but I was already deeply disturbed by how cringey and awkward the first couple of livestreams were, as they were clearly trying to read off a teleprompter, meaning Someone had written out a specific Script for them, something the devs have never needed in the 9+ years that I've been playing, at least not that I've noticed.

 

Based on what I've seen, the EoD content looks disturbingly weak and poorly done.  All but 2 of the elite specs need major reworks, and at least 3 pretty much need to be scrapped completely and redesigned from the ground up.  And of course, that's not going to happen.  Add to that, that most mounts are, apparently, going to be disabled for Cantha.  The 4 relatively small maps compared to recent content we've gotten in the last 4 years.  And oh boy, "fishing"...literally the last thing I could ever had thought of for an addition to the gw2 universe.

 

I am experiencing deep and profound misgivings about this "expansion".

When I said this was a you problem, I meant it. And when I mentioned backseat developer, I really meant it. Because you're trying way too hard to put a negative weight on a positive feedback I made, going as far as to call ANet cringey and awkward during livestreams. Like OK? And what does me giving a positive feedback have anything to do with how they do their presentations? I enjoy their presentation, in fact I find it more wholesome than some scripted presentation with no soul, they are genuinely enjoying themselves. And what does your design experience have anything to do with this? I've been in the game development field myself, I've never once brought it up because this literally has nothing to do with that. You're constantly bringing up strawmans for no reason. 

Observe all you want, you're more than welcome to, I have no issues with that. But if anyone's trying to gaslight anyone, it's you. I've been keeping a positive light on EOD, if I see any issues with it, I'll say it when I feel the need to say it, I don't need someone to piggyback off me just to get their point across that they hate ANet right now. So for the last time, this is a YOU issue, because I've not delved in that rabbit hole one bit. 

[solarisnox.8521]

7 hours ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

This perfectly describes how I feel. They trashed primordus' 10 year setup for this expansion so it better be worth it. So far it is not. Nothing but recycled animations, recycles assets, recycled textures and even recycled enemies. Oh and fishing, as a main feature. >>

you forgot recycled elite specs (ele-scrapper with a jade gyro...don't even get me started).

 

and oh yes...fiiiiiishiiiing.

the sad thing is, knowing anet, gw2 fishing will be the most awesome fishing implementation of any game ever, but I don't care.  I didn't want fishing.  No one wanted fishing.  I really wish they'd spent the tens of thousands of man-hours, resources, and creativity they spent on fishing, into creating interesting, original, and not entirely ridiculous nonsensical elite specs, with coordinated thematic designs.

But I'm not bitter about.

[solarisnox.8521]

2 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

If it's an issue you've observed, that's all well and good, and people have agreed that they also see that issue, but I'm not one of those people who are in that position. I've kept myself away from the people who see the fundamental flaws of EOD because I'm not in the same rabbit hole they or you are, I'm keeping a more positive light to what's currently happening, especially given the circumstance. What you literally did is quoted my positive feedback and piggybacked on it with your negative feedback in order to emphasize the negatives of EOD. 

If you're not seeing that issue, let's remember your entire textwall

When I said this was a you problem, I meant it. And when I mentioned backseat developer, I really meant it. Because you're trying way too hard to put a negative weight on a positive feedback I made, going as far as to call ANet cringey and awkward during livestreams. Like OK? And what does me giving a positive feedback have anything to do with how they do their presentations? I enjoy their presentation, in fact I find it more wholesome than some scripted presentation with no soul, they are genuinely enjoying themselves. And what does your design experience have anything to do with this? I've been in the game development field myself, I've never once brought it up because this literally has nothing to do with that. You're constantly bringing up strawmans for no reason. 

Observe all you want, you're more than welcome to, I have no issues with that. But if anyone's trying to gaslight anyone, it's you. I've been keeping a positive light on EOD, if I see any issues with it, I'll say it when I feel the need to say it, I don't need someone to piggyback off me just to get their point across that they hate ANet right now. So for the last time, this is a YOU issue, because I've not delved in that rabbit hole one bit. 

Hmm...

Pointing out specific issues with design or thematic concept is not a "strawman".  You may want to look up what that term actually means.  In actual fact, you, attempting to gaslight me, are conjuring up strawman arguments, as in "this is a YOU problem".

 

And, while "piggybacking" off someone else's content might be something you would do, (projection), I was merely commenting in response.  Unlike you, I have no vested interest in your commentary, or your opinion of the game.  I'm not here to kiss kitten and I'm not here to destroy.

I'm free to express my own observations and opinions, as are we all.

You were entirely free to ignore my comment. 

You chose not to.

so, once again, this looks more like a "you" problem.

 

 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

24 minutes ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

Hmm...

Pointing out specific issues with design or thematic concept is not a "strawman".  You may want to look up what that term actually means.  In actual fact, you, attempting to gaslight me, are conjuring up strawman arguments, as in "this is a YOU problem".

 

And, while "piggybacking" off someone else's content might be something you would do, (projection), I was merely commenting in response.  Unlike you, I have no vested interest in your commentary, or your opinion of the game.  I'm not here to kiss kitten and I'm not here to destroy.

I'm free to express my own observations and opinions, as are we all.

You were entirely free to ignore my comment. 

You chose not to.

so, once again, this looks more like a "you" problem.

Seriously? You're trying to do a "No you" now? Man you really are reaching for whatever at this point. Feel free to spin that yarn but you know exactly what you've done and why this even became a thing to begin with. I'm well aware of what ANet's flaws are and I have no intention of focusing on that. You're welcome to do so.

24 minutes ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

You were entirely free to ignore my comment. 

So why didn't you ignore mine? You were entirely capable of making the exact same response to the thread without quoting me to piggyback off my positive feedback. 

And you obviously don't know what gaslighting or strawman means if you can't even see what you've done. I know exactly what I'm on about because I'm not the one who randomly quoted a person's positive feedback to piggyback on them, talk about my random number of years being with this game and suddenly claiming I have design experience out of the blue to back my point that ANet is terrible and I hate them hence why positive feedback shouldn't be a thing based on my observation. 

That was all you, so once again, a you problem lel. Ima leave it here, anything past this point only further proves my argument

Edited November 14, 2021 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

There sure are some exaggerations and misinformation in this thread. 

No one wanted fishing?  Only Raptors in End of Dragons? 

Some must not have been listening to the Devs, or even noticing them using Raptors, Skyscales, Springers. Even Wooden Potatoes talked about Skyscales in his video. 

Here's a snippet from a Guild Chat:

what if you don't have heart of thorns
and you haven't unlocked gliding so uh
with with with under dragons actually uh
we've made the decision to
unlock gliding for anybody who owns end
of dragons from the moment that you
enter into the maps
and so
you're going to have gliding no matter
what if you own any dragons you got
gliding first here easy on us
enjoy yeah and the overarching reason
for that was mostly that gliding is such
an integral part of our overarching joy
of movement and combat systems
that
we thought that it would be better to
make sure
that players have the like that we
didn't have to design around it right
because for certain expansions certain
things we always have to be like okay
well we can't do things this way because
players some players might not have
mounts some players might have gliding
so with end of dragons we kind of wanted
to try to remove that limitation and hit
on the areas that we feel we're the
strongest in which is mostly joy of
movement and gliding is a strong uh
indicator and mechanic slash tool with
that so yeah just long story short
anybody who doesn't have gliding the
second you enter into dragons you will
have gliding yeah and that eliminates
that question of we have to design
around yeah what if people don't have it
because now you do yeah exactly awesome

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Chat_-_Episode_111

[solarisnox.8521]

8 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Seriously? You're trying to do a "No you" now? Man you really are reaching for whatever at this point. Feel free to spin that yarn but you know exactly what you've done and why this even became a thing to begin with. I'm well aware of what ANet's flaws are and I have no intention of focusing on that. You're welcome to do so.

So why didn't you ignore mine? You were entirely capable of making the exact same response to the thread without quoting me to piggyback off my positive feedback. 

And you obviously don't know what gaslighting or strawman means if you can't even see what you've done. I know exactly what I'm on about because I'm not the one who randomly quoted a person's positive feedback to piggyback on them, talk about my random number of years being with this game and suddenly claiming I have design experience out of the blue to back my point that ANet is terrible and I hate them hence why positive feedback shouldn't be a thing based on my observation. 

That was all you, so once again, a you problem lel

LoL

So after accusing me of pulling a "no you", you're going to literally do the same thing you just accused me of doing? 

LoL, what an interesting and clumsy display of hypocrisy.

 

At no point have expressed "hatred" for anet.  I have never indicated that in the 9+ years I've been playing gw2.  So do not think that you are in any position to understand me, my thoughts or my motivations.  You're not.  And again, stop with the passive aggressive gaslighting idiocy.  You're embarrassing yourself with your clumsy efforts.

 

I've stated pretty clearly, that I am pissed off about the shoddy and half assed "design" of most of these elite specs, about the ridiculously and totally unwanted addition of Fishing and the pointless waste of resources that went into it that could have far more intelligently been applied to the elite specs, and of the seeming lack of potential interesting content, Based on What I am Observing of what they are showing us.  And I'm not the only one, I'm not even in the minority.  The overwhelming response in forums and social media is "meh" at best and "total garbage" at worst.

 

Do you not understand how the facts of what a person or a company shows you in the present, predicts the future of what they  are Going to show you?  No.  Of course you don't.  You have your opinion based on nothing but your feelzies, and gods forbid anyone should dare have a different opinion than yours, lol.

 

I'm very happy for you that you have warm fuzzy feelings about the impending expansion.  I'm not sure how you do that, based on the evidence at hand that they've shown us, but okay Pollyanna, you be you.

 

Unfortunately, the fact that I am so pissed off that I am probably not going to play this game again is only serving to make me even More pissed off because of how very much I have LOVED this game, and the company that created it, the fun times I had, the friends I made, and so on.  But no, I don't hate the company, I'm just disappointed with them, and saddened at the loss of my favorite form of relaxation and enjoyment.  And I'm concerned that this expansion is almost certainly going to be their last.

 

And again, with the gaslighting: 

 

"that ANet is terrible and I hate them hence why positive feedback shouldn't be a thing based on my observation"

 

At what point did I ever suggest that You or anyone else are not allowed to have your fluffy bunny opinion which is based upon zero actual information other than you're own opinion? 

No, in actual fact I have repeatedly reaffirmed that we, you and I, are clearly in disagreement but are capable, I had thought, of having a rational conversation free of lame and feeble attempts at judging, evaluating, and gaslighting. 

See, THIS is a "you" problem.  YOU try to covertly manipulate and gaslight people by literally spreading actual strawman arguments.  LoL, it's hilarious to see it.

 

But clearly you are not capable of having a rational adult conversation with someone with an opposing viewpoint. And looking back over your previous responses, it is evident that you have been covertly trying to guilt me into changing my viewpoint, and insidiously (albeit feebly) trying to gaslight me into accepting your projection of your own actions, your own viewpoint, and your own biases, from the beginning. I would say "nice try" but it was sadly and pathetically obvious, as I called you out on multiple times.

have fun with the expac, I hope it lives up to Your expectations.

'ta

 

[solarisnox.8521]

8 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

There sure are some exaggerations and misinformation in this thread. 

No one wanted fishing?  Only Raptors in End of Dragons? 

Some must not have been listening to the Devs, or even noticing them using Raptors, Skyscales, Springers. Even Wooden Potatoes talked about Skyscales in his video. 

Here's a snippet from a Guild Chat:

what if you don't have heart of thorns
and you haven't unlocked gliding so uh
with with with under dragons actually uh
we've made the decision to
unlock gliding for anybody who owns end
of dragons from the moment that you
enter into the maps
and so
you're going to have gliding no matter
what if you own any dragons you got
gliding first here easy on us
enjoy yeah and the overarching reason
for that was mostly that gliding is such
an integral part of our overarching joy
of movement and combat systems
that
we thought that it would be better to
make sure
that players have the like that we
didn't have to design around it right
because for certain expansions certain
things we always have to be like okay
well we can't do things this way because
players some players might not have
mounts some players might have gliding
so with end of dragons we kind of wanted
to try to remove that limitation and hit
on the areas that we feel we're the
strongest in which is mostly joy of
movement and gliding is a strong uh
indicator and mechanic slash tool with
that so yeah just long story short
anybody who doesn't have gliding the
second you enter into dragons you will
have gliding yeah and that eliminates
that question of we have to design
around yeah what if people don't have it
because now you do yeah exactly awesome

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Chat_-_Episode_111

so I see a comment on "everyone is going to have gliding", in this text, which is fine.  WP is the one who actually said that mounts were going to be limited.  Maybe he was mistaken, but nothing I see here in this text tells me that all mounts are available. 

 

And while I've seen the dev's running around on various mounts during their livestreams, I've also seen the devs having zero cooldowns on all their skills so they can do ridiculous things to show off what the elite spec will never actually be able to do in game. 

So, while I admit that WP is not the final authority on the subject of mounts, his longstanding relationship with anet certainly affords him some insider information.  So, if he misspoke, or if he corrected that statement in a later video that I missed, so be it, I stand corrected, and thankfully so. 

 

However, ultimately, the mounts issue was pretty much insignificant to the overall issues I'm seeing with the elite specs, and the expac in general, and was more like an extra final straw, rather than the entire bushel of crappy half assed elite specs, pointless waste of resources on fishing, skiffs, turtle mount, and so on.

 

And yes, in all the time I've played the game, I've never seen or heard anyone say "fishing would really make this game sing".  Ever. 

 

Now, that being said, I know that anet will create an incredible and innovative spin on fishing.  But, it's still fishing.  And no one cares.  Just like literally no one wanted an ele "scrapper" with a hammer and useless unworkable jade "gyro". 

But that's just my thoughts.

What other "exaggerations and misinformation" were you referring to?

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

1 hour ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

I didn't want fishing.  No one wanted fishing. 

These are two completely different things that you are getting confused.

 

Just because you didn't / don't want something doesn't mean that's the same others since it's factually incorrect and incredibly disingenuous to say no one wanted fishing. 

 

Over the years time and time again adding fishing had been brought up and has been some of the longest discussion threads the forum has seen. 

 

You can double down all you want saying "I never heard it" and "But, it's still fishing.  And no one cares" but you are just wrong. 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Sigmoid.7082

[solarisnox.8521]

13 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

These are two completely different things that you are getting confused.

 

Just because you didn't / don't want something doesn't mean that's the same others since it's factually incorrect and incredibly disingenuous to say no one wanted fishing. 

 

 

 

They are not completely different.  They are two separate, but related, statements.  And no, I am not getting them confused, so let me clarify: in 9+ years of playing gw2, over 13,394 hours of actual game time, at no point in any of those 13,394+ hours has anyone, at any time, in any chat channel, in any game mode, or on any VOIP channel, EVER indicated anything like:

 

"Hey, y'know what would totally make this game awesome??? FISHING!!!". 

 

Literally said no one ever. 

 

So, maybe someone, somewhere, in china, thought fishing might be a good idea, and I would have missed that, not having access to the chinese servers.  But I doubt it. 

And my statement is reflected in the comments I've seen on the subject since the announcement, both in the forums and on various social media platforms and video streaming sites. 

 

So, if you are the person who likes fishing and wanted it in gw2, congratulations, you got your wish.

 

The rest of us would rather they had spent all that time and resources and manhours and creativity to create some actual elite specs that made sense.

Edited November 14, 2021 by solarisnox.8521

[Tukaram.8256]

20 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Seriously im so tired of the recent trend in all gaming communities over the recent years, not just gw, to just constantly kitten on everything and go out of their way to be overly pessimistic and complain about literally everything...

 

Unfortunately that is what most of the forum users are. Most of the happy players are playing...  😎

So far I love what I have seen in the teasers.  I already paid for the expansion, and am enjoying my Canthan raptor skin.  I am cautiously optimistic. I was very unhappy with HoT, but loved PoF.... we shall see how EoD goes, hopefully very soon. 

 

~Edit~ I gave it a B, because it is a bit dark for an A... and I do  not know what an S is.  We did not have those is my school grades.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Tukaram.8256

[Poormany.4507]

3 hours ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

"Hey, y'know what would totally make this game awesome??? FISHING!!!". 

 

Literally said no one ever. 

 

So, maybe someone, somewhere, in china, thought fishing might be a good idea, and I would have missed that, not having access to the chinese servers.  But I doubt it. 

And my statement is reflected in the comments I've seen on the subject since the announcement, both in the forums and on various social media platforms and video streaming sites. 

 

So, if you are the person who likes fishing and wanted it in gw2, congratulations, you got your wish.

 

The rest of us would rather they had spent all that time and resources and manhours and creativity to create some actual elite specs that made sense.

From before fishing was even announced: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/search/?&q=fishing&search_and_or=or&start_after=1326499200&start_before=1578960000&sortby=relevancy

There was definitely player demand for fishing before fishing or EoD were even announced.

Also, from Reddit 5 years ago: "Fishing would be awesome." (https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/57ns4s/fishing/)

Not everyone cares about e-specs as the sole factor of an expac's success (myself included).

Edited November 14, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[Sigmoid.7082]

2 hours ago, solarisnox.8521 said:

So, if you are the person who likes fishing and wanted it in gw2, congratulations, you got your wish.

 

The rest of us would rather they had spent all that time and resources and manhours and creativity to create some actual elite specs that made sense.

Weird attempt to paint yourself as the one who is right and everyone is with you in your opinions. You can reduce people who disagree with you to some singular and then add a plural to your argument all you want but that doesn't change the fact that its nothing but your own opinion and you can only speak for yourself...

 

Just because you refuse to see or acknowledge other wants besides your own is, again, a you problem.

 

For someone who has spent half a page defending things as just their opinion and observations, you sure as hell are trying to deny other the same position...because they are your opinions and they must be correct and everyone agrees with you right?