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The breakbar GATE!


kanemi.4903

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Hello Gamers!
How it's possible that patch after patch and we haven't seeing any addition to the skills regarding 'break bar'?!
How the 'newbies' will know which skill to use if those skills have not a single information about break bar?

A new expansion on the way and one of the CORE mechanics of the game has no information on skills over several years? how?
The devs are unable to add a line with a icon on every skill saying 'break bar'? (UNBELIEVABLE)

Another issue at least for me is:
Is the home instance some kind of labyrinth? 
For god sake spawn things on one location, its very hard to keep looking for things in the groove instance ¬¬ (I'm annoyed by this)
You know how many time I lost tryna find the crops? 🤣🤣🤣

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I thought it was common knowledge what skills to use for break bars. You can find informations about the in the wiki or ask ingame. So I don’t see the need for additional infos in the tooltip. Or you can just figure out yourself which skills to use. 

Edited by yoni.7015
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Breakbars:

Literally any soft or hard CC will chip away at the Defiance bar, in proportion to the overall "intensity" of that effect.

 

Home instance nodes:

You can go to any one you want, it's not race-specific. If you hate the weird little roof garden on the Sylvari one, try the Charr home instance (Black Citadel) instead.

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2 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

I thought it was common knowledge what skills to use for break bars. You can find informations about the in the wiki or ask ingame. So I don’t see the need for additional infos I’m the tooltip. Or you can just figure out yourself which skills to use. 

So now, instead of looking on 'tooltip' we refer people to WIKI! 
WOW!

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2 minutes ago, kanemi.4903 said:

So now, instead of looking on 'tooltip' we refer people to WIKI! 
WOW!

Well, you can still figure it out while playing the game. It’s not that difficult, just use CC skills. The tool tips show you what cc the skills do. So it basically already is in the tool tip. 

Edited by yoni.7015
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3 minutes ago, kanemi.4903 said:

So now, instead of looking on 'tooltip' we refer people to WIKI! 
WOW!

If you'd like to know specifics, then the wiki is a good resource.  But how oblivious does one need to be to reach endgame without ever noticing that blue bar and what it does?  Do you need a tutorial for the health bar, too?

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1 minute ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

If you'd like to know specifics, then the wiki is a good resource.  But how oblivious does one need to be to reach endgame without ever noticing that blue bar and what it does?  Do you need a tutorial for the health bar, too?

It is pretty obvious what you have to do when the break bar comes, I mean you can see what skills have an effect on the break bar. 

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There's 3 breakbars in DS where you literally can't progress the event unless you do and 1-3 in Forging Steel, the current return to. I mean currently there's lots "teaching." It's a common complaint and anet has been trying to address it all throughout IB saga. 

The only thing Anet could do further would be like blinking indicators on skills when you have a mob with an active (blue) breakbar up. Like maybe a yellow blinking outline for soft CC and a blue blinking outline for hard CC.

Edited by Firebeard.1746
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Dunno, we used to play just fine when games didn't even come with manuals of any kind.

 

I personally enjoy games a lot more without any HUD indicators where to run, and without tips and hints being thrown at the player at every opportunity.

 

Imo, its a lot more immersive and makes people play a lot better.

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1 hour ago, yoni.7015 said:

It is pretty obvious what you have to do when the break bar comes, I mean you can see what skills have an effect on the break bar. 

You mean the same "light up" effect that's over your combo finishers, too? Often they're one and the same -- finisher and CC -- so they'll just be highlighted the whole fight...

GW2's never done a good job of communicating with the player what's meant to be going on.

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17 minutes ago, Tiilimon.6094 said:

Dunno, we used to play just fine when games didn't even come with manuals of any kind.

 

I personally enjoy games a lot more without any HUD indicators where to run, and without tips and hints being thrown at the player at every opportunity.

 

Imo, its a lot more immersive and makes people play a lot better.

To some extent I agree with you but I also remember feeling like I'd had a major breakthrough when many hours into my first RPG I learned that an elf would always be a better mage than a half-giant and going through the entire game without knowing what Dex or Con were...or what Dexterity or Constitution meant, so even the full titles wouldn't have helped (I was 8 years old).

I had a similar problem in GW2 many years later; for several months I thought power was for melee weapons and precision did the same thing but for ranged weapons - because back then the ranger's Skirmishing trait line booster power and Marksmanship boosted precision and it would have mirrored how it worked in GW1.

If the game doesn't tell you everything you can eventually end up understanding it better because you have to do the trial and error and pay attention to what's happening when you do, but that takes a long time and a lot of people won't bother, if what they're doing seems to be ok they'll keep doing it and won't worry about whether it's right or not.

Having said that most people I meet do seem to understand how CC skills and breakbars work and if not it's pretty quick to tell them. I did meet one person who thought breakbars changing to blue and draining was random and didn't realise it relied on player skills but they'd not been playing for long.

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You seem way too angry about something that is so easily researchable by you. The wiki has all the answers you need.

As for the home instance, try visiting another city's and see if it better suits your sensibilities. I prefer Rata Sum, above all the others, for example.

1 hour ago, kanemi.4903 said:

So now, instead of looking on 'tooltip' we refer people to WIKI! 

GW2 has arguably the most extensive, up-to-date and accessible wiki among all MMOs. (Granted, I don't visit other wikis all that often.) It is an integral part of the game, much more than with other games, and has been so since GW1. There is a reason why it is directly accessible from within the game. And the best one: the wiki is and has always been edited entirely by players who found things out the hard way. Using the wiki is, by all intents and purposes, equivalent to asking another player. So, yes, it is better to refer to the wiki rather than flaming ANet for your inability to learn what your skills do.

Edited by MikeG.6389
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2 hours ago, MikeG.6389 said:

You seem way too angry about something that is so easily researchable by you. The wiki has all the answers you need.

As for the home instance, try visiting another city's and see if it better suits your sensibilities. I prefer Rata Sum, above all the others, for example.

I'll try just that.
 

2 hours ago, MikeG.6389 said:

You seem way too angry about something that is so easily researchable by you

If you see the amount of people running raid/CMs without even trying to CC... 
Relying 'on GOD know who/what', you wouldn't be saying that.

And no, I'm not angry, I'm just perplexed by how many DPS don't actually know 
or don't bother to CC'ing doing END GAME content.

 While learning CM 100, somebody said to me that support players don't need to CC (outside of sanct the sorrow), 
so usually I don't CC, but as I have been watching arcdps (adv sort -> breakbar) , some DPS players don't CC at all, 
so I have to not only support the party but doing DPS job as well, reason why i'm wondering if the problem may be me not CC'ing  because as far as I know is a DPS job or the DPS 'some of them', just smash the keyboard without knowing what CC is...

*I may be wrong here.*

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1 hour ago, kanemi.4903 said:

I'll try just that.
 

If you see the amount of people running raid/CMs without even trying to CC... 
Relying 'on GOD know who/what', you wouldn't be saying that.

And no, I'm not angry, I'm just perplexed by how many DPS don't actually know 
or don't bother to CC'ing doing END GAME content.

 While learning CM 100, somebody said to me that support players don't need to CC (outside of sanct the sorrow), 
so usually I don't CC, but as I have been watching arcdps (adv sort -> breakbar) , some DPS players don't CC at all, 
so I have to not only support the party but doing DPS job as well, reason why i'm wondering if the problem may be me not CC'ing  because as far as I know is a DPS job or the DPS 'some of them', just smash the keyboard without knowing what CC is...

*I may be wrong here.*

What is so perplexing about lazy people? There is definitely not shortage of those in the world.

Why should they change when they have people like you covering their kitten?

 

It's like people who have an annoying brother/sister/cousin/etc. that are always "borrowing" money, why would they change their behavior if their existing behavior works?

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The tricky thing with breakbar damage on tooltips is that soft CCs effectively have a global dps cap based on 100% uptime of the corresponding condition. In many open world situations, this means your soft cc is worth almost nothing when there is so many people incidentally applying the same condition all the time. In specific content soft ccs are also quite slow, when an enemy is scaled up, and fail to be meaningful where the breakbark has a limited window to be depleted. So I don't know how you would label the damage of soft CCs, in some cases it will do significantly less damage than advertised. Similarly to damaging conditions before they removed the 25 stack cap.

Edited by PseudoNewb.5468
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7 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

I thought it was common knowledge what skills to use for break bars. You can find informations about the in the wiki or ask ingame. So I don’t see the need for additional infos in the tooltip. Or you can just figure out yourself which skills to use. 

That's the dig ... why would a new player know that's where to get that information or that it's even something they should ask about in the first place? As long as they see they are able to complete content and not know about 'breakbar' ... it's weird to presume it would trigger them to investigate.

Edited by Obtena.7952
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A QOL visual aid may actually help with the CC.

I think Anet should consider making CC effects in the toolbar a unique and vibrant colour to indicate that this effect is a CC and will deal damage to break bars.

If I had to vote on a colour I would probably go with purple.
Make is so that the icons and text for Knockback, Knockdown Stun, Daze, Fear, Taunt, Sink, Float and Launch are all a light purple colour.
Stun and Daze already have this kind of colour standout on their icons but not on the associated text.

Do the same with soft CC effects as well, give Cripple, Chill, Blind, Immobilize, Slow and Weakness purple Icons and text as a visual indicator that these conditions will inflict breakbar damage.
Add a popup tutorial for when you gain your first hard and soft CC skills that details that some powerful enemies have breakbars and to break them them you hit those enemies with skills that have purple effects and that'll probably be enough for some people.
Breakbar = use purple skill.. it's surprising how something that simple can make a difference at times.

As for the new tutorial areas in End of Dragons, I think these are great additions to the game honestly.
But Anet needs to seriously consider duplicating these tutorial areas into all the 1-15 starter maps in core Tyria, or at the very least the starting areas of the secondary maps, the 15-25 maps like Kessex Hills where they can be more assured players will have access to CC skills by then.
I don't think they should be removed from End of Dragons, they will find use there with returning players naturally, but to not add the to the maps where they would literally be the most useful to the most people would be just ridiculous.
While i'm at it as well, give us the ability to make training Golem arena's for our Guildhalls as well.

Edited by Teratus.2859
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My solution is to host training runs (fractals, dungeons, strikes) where I tell people what cc is. Also when I'm mentoring newbies in starter maps, I sometimes explain the defiance bar.

Keep in mind though, plenty of players have been able to figure it out themselves. It's more confusing that we call it "cc" when the skills are labelled individually, like stun, push, knockdown, etc. Sometimes people know how to break the bar but have no idea what to do when people say "cc". And it's an acronym, which is more confusing.

Home instances aren't limited by your race. If you're a sylvari, you can still enter your own home via the asura instance, which imo is the most organized and condensed, great for daily farming. That's just something that you learn from exploring.

Everything, really, is discoverable in the game if you pay enough attention. The wiki is made by players. Players who figured out the stuff first and are kind enough to publish it for us. You're not alone in being confused, but I think you're unfairly blaming the game. The game is fine. You just need to learn it.

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11 minutes ago, wolfsblut.9435 said:

The could simply highlight all CC skills when one hits a target that actually has a defiance bar active.

 

that would tank the servers on a unprecedented level. and if people were interested, they would had found out on their own.

fact is: it is a boring mechanic, and it prevents players from using the skills they prefer

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