The Friendslist, Why I think it needs to be changed [Merged]

[AgentMoore.9453]

Just popping in to remind you guys that this thread is from 2021. That said, the OP's concerns haven't been addressed since that time. With a new player experience reboot inbound for 2022, I hope some of the suggestions contained herein are taken into account.

[CashCow.9548]

Some problems you guys got here...

 

Almost 20 years on the internet, never have I felt harassed.

 

Or I just didn't care.

 

Oh yeah, I didn't care.

 

You people taking your virtual problems too seriously. Friend's list is fine.

Edited May 11, 2022 by CashCow.9548

[Charall.4710]

On 5/11/2022 at 12:58 AM, Linken.6345 said:

Block and they cant do anything to you so yea dont really matter.

Not true at all, block is never the be all end all.

[Serephen.3420]

If they banned all the toxic players what would they have to do with the server mag runs on?

I kid I kid....or am I?😏

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I'd like to add that one of the reasons given in this old thread for why the changes shouldn't be implemented, is because people can follow you around while blocked (due to being able to see your location) but "can't do anything so its harmless". This is no longer the case, as they can hop in your turtle unless you restrict it to your party 24/7, a unique problem that has never existed before in the game.

 

Its one of the most recent forms of trolling for people you don't like, and the cause is in most cases due to the leaking map name, showing nameplate, etc. while blocked.

 

I imagine all future mounts will be shared so this problem will likely worsen, too.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

I'd like to add that one of the reasons given in this old thread for why the changes shouldn't be implemented, is because people can follow you around while blocked (due to being able to see your location) but "can't do anything so its harmless". This is no longer the case, as they can hop in your turtle unless you restrict it to your party 24/7, a unique problem that has never existed before in the game.

 

Its one of the most recent forms of trolling for people you don't like, and the cause is in most cases due to the leaking map name, showing nameplate, etc. while blocked.

 

I imagine all future mounts will be shared so this problem will likely worsen, too.

then take em for a ride like this guy

 

[MechanicalMind.9126]

I for one would be happy if once you took someone off a friends list, you disappeared off theirs. 

[SlayerXX.7138]

I'm pretty sure you can block mails if you want already. Don't know how as I'm not afraid of internet strangers. While we are at the topic of blocking people. Insulting people per whisper and then blocking them should be punishable per death sentence. If people wanna be a-holes they should at least stay their ground and don't huddle back in the dirt like the cowards they are.

 

That said blocking people should remove you from their friendslist. That does seem like common sense. I don't understand how people could be against that.
Little reminder if you don't have a commander tag and your stalkers does, they can kick you out of your own group. And I'm sure there is a bunch of other stuff a lunatic could come up with.

Edit: In case someone is confused. If you are in lfg in a group without a commander a stalker can join the group-> Tag up-> kick you.
Even without commander tag they can join and instant invite someone random and the group does delist. Happened to a group I joined. Commander had to fiddle for 10 minutes to quickly kick the troll and praying that someone joins in the 5 sec time window we had.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Charall.4710]

12 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

That said blocking people should remove you from their friendslist

And further prevent them from re-adding you.

[Charall.4710]

15 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

That does seem like common sense. I don't understand how people could be against that.

Forgot to quote this, reason people are against it is because this community actively seems to support  harassment and want to stalk people by what I have witnessed.

[SlayerXX.7138]

23 minutes ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

And further prevent them from re-adding you.

Obviously😂. Would be pretty pointless otherwise.

 

20 minutes ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

Forgot to quote this, reason people are against it is because this community actively seems to support  harassment and want to stalk people by what I have witnessed.

Such nonsense. Its probably just because some people are selfish and if it isn't a problem for them the problem might as well not exist. I just don't understand why their own self importance blind them on such issues. Lets be honest the main reason is Anet just not giving a damm.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Silent.6137]

Majority of players will not encounter issues such as this. However, for those who do, it can be disheartening. It's just amazing that Anet would not take a pro-active step to eliminate any form of stalkings/harrassments. Also, why some people would think it's not an issue just because they had not encounter it? If it does happen to you, then it's a little too late.

If you block someone, there's usually a good reason. And also because you do not wish to interact with that person in any form. Is there a good reason why you have to interact with them against your will?

Suggestion: If you block someone, then

• They can't add you to their friendlist.
• Blocklist will not show any details regarding them either - i.e., to prevent reversed harassments.
• You will be invisible to them on any list including LFG, guild, squad, team, etc. (and they will be invisible to you as well).
• They can't join your team if you're the commander. And you'll be unable to join theirs as well.
• They can't kick you by assuming command of a squad you're already in.
• They can't see any of your chats and vice-versa.
• They can't email you and vice-versa.
• If you block someone, then you'll be on their block list as well - to prevent someone from blocking/unblocking repeatedly to message and harrass the other person.
• You can unblock the other person at any time but for the above conditions to disappear, it'll require both parties to unblock.
• There will be a time limit before you can unblock someone you just blocked - eg. 7 days.

In other words, absolute zero contact.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Charall.4710]

6 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Majority of players will not encounter issues such as this.

I will just point to WvW for this one in specific, but otherwise you are mostly correct. Competitive gameplay will always result in hostility/harassment.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Suggestion: If you block someone, then

• They can't add you to their friendlist.
• Blocklist will not show any details regarding them either - i.e., to prevent reversed harassments.
• You will be invisible to them on any list including LFG, guild, squad, team, etc. (and they will be invisible to you as well).
• They can't join your team if you're the commander. And you'll be unable to join theirs as well.
• They can't kick you by assuming command of a squad you're already in.
• They can't see any of your chats and vice-versa.
• They can't email you and vice-versa.
• If you block someone, then you'll be on their block list as well - to prevent someone from blocking/unblocking repeatedly to message and harrass the other person.

Absolutely spot on, I don't give a crap if I can see someone or not. I care that they can still fricken keep going even after they are blocked.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Albi.7250 said:

I'm pretty sure you can block mails if you want already. Don't know how as I'm not afraid of internet strangers. While we are at the topic of blocking people. Insulting people per whisper and then blocking them should be punishable per death sentence. If people wanna be a-holes they should at least stay their ground and don't huddle back in the dirt like the cowards they are.

 

That said blocking people should remove you from their friendslist. That does seem like common sense. I don't understand how people could be against that.
Little reminder if you don't have a commander tag and your stalkers does, they can kick you out of your own group. And I'm sure there is a bunch of other stuff a lunatic could come up with.

Edit: In case someone is confused. If you are in lfg in a group without a commander a stalker can join the group-> Tag up-> kick you.
Even without commander tag they can join and instant invite someone random and the group does delist. Happened to a group I joined. Commander had to fiddle for 10 minutes to quickly kick the troll and praying that someone joins in the 5 sec time window we had.

Thats because your are added to their list not yours so you delete them on yours but your still on their list.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

6 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

Majority of players will not encounter issues such as this. However, for those who do, it can be disheartening. It's just amazing that Anet would not take a pro-active step to eliminate any form of stalkings/harrassments. Also, why some people would think it's not an issue just because they had not encounter it? If it does happen to you, then it's a little too late.

If you block someone, there's usually a good reason. And also because you do not wish to interact with that person in any form. Is there a good reason why you have to interact with them against your will?

Suggestion: If you block someone, then

• They can't add you to their friendlist.
• Blocklist will not show any details regarding them either - i.e., to prevent reversed harassments.
• You will be invisible to them on any list including LFG, guild, squad, team, etc. (and they will be invisible to you as well).
• They can't join your team if you're the commander. And you'll be unable to join theirs as well.
• They can't kick you by assuming command of a squad you're already in.
• They can't see any of your chats and vice-versa.
• They can't email you and vice-versa.
• If you block someone, then you'll be on their block list as well - to prevent someone from blocking/unblocking repeatedly to message and harrass the other person.
• You can unblock the other person at any time but for the above conditions to disappear, it'll require both parties to unblock.
• There will be a time limit before you can unblock someone you just blocked - eg. 7 days.

In other words, absolute zero contact.

It should also hide their character from the game world. If you're in a party with them in Fractals or such, it should just give them a generic name and model, and the same for you.

 

This wouldn't just be useful for players who harass you, but for many other reasons too. You can finally get rid of Leddy McGlowShow and play in peace.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Charall.4710]

39 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

It should also hide their character from the game world.

Would be nice if they could but realistically, it's not possible with their current systems.

[Linken.6345]

4 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

It should also hide their character from the game world. If you're in a party with them in Fractals or such, it should just give them a generic name and model, and the same for you.

 

This wouldn't just be useful for players who harass you, but for many other reasons too. You can finally get rid of Leddy McGlowShow and play in peace.

I wonder how many ppl would complain that the servers seem dead because they blocked too many people

[Hotride.2187]

The only thing they have to add is to hide your location, so that you cant get followed into other borders. Would also help for spvp, where players can track whether you are in a game or not (and so queue depending on that).

For the rest just don't be a sissy. You are online, what do you expect?

Edited May 14, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

18 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

I wonder how many ppl would complain that the servers seem dead because they blocked too many people

I'm not sure what you mean, many players already use lowest Character Model Limit, which hides pretty much everyone else. I've never counted exactly but it seems to show mostly just your own party.

 

Believe it or not having your screen full of people you don't know isn't too useful.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Charall.4710]

On 5/14/2022 at 11:26 PM, Hannelore.8153 said:

Believe it or not having your screen full of people you don't know isn't too useful.

This too, it really isn't a problem with character models. - PS some peoples character models are an eyesore but y'know.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Dravvi.3146

[robertthebard.8150]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:59 AM, Zohane.7208 said:

I have to say I like the current system; I have people I follow who have chosen to not follow me, and vice versa. This works really well (for me).

Harrassment should not be handled by disabling systems that work well for lots and lots of people. Rather, it should be dealt with by Anet, through the report system. Actions would need to be swift, and outcomes for harrassers would need to be severe. (Then comes the question of what would actually count as harrassment, but that's another discussion entirely...)

 

That said, I don't think it'd be a bad thing if Anet were to implement a way for people to - optionally - change over to a mutual friends system, as long as it doesn't mean forcibly removing the current system for those of us that still want it. Not sure if it'd be worth the cost and developer time, though.

I am really all for swift action by ANet, and don't mind making the friend's list and follower list require approval by the target of the requests.

In so far as "what would actually count as harassment", however, I don't think it's a separate discussion, because "I don't care if there's a Gay Pride cape or not" was intimated to me as being an oppressor, and thus, could be counted as harassment.  This actually happened on these forums.  So, I believe that if this is something that is being reported as harassment, the reporter should be facing those consequences, instead of someone that seriously has no opinion on something.  In context with this thread, I have no idea what the harassment was.  Was it stalking, or did someone say "Hey, nice hair."?  Either one is a possibility.

[notebene.3190]

If they do change the friends list to be mutually accepted, I hope they fix the 'invite to group' click off the chat window.

For some reason, I can't invite everyone I want to into a group by clicking on their name. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I get around the problem by temporarily making them a friend, then adding them to the group from the friend list, and then removing them. I do this when I want to invite people to farm my home instance. I'm not about to type in all those names, especially when many of them have special characters.

I know there is a way that people do 'self invites' into their party for home instance farming, but after nearly 10 years, I can't seem to figure out how to do that: make a party that people can self-invite themselves to. 😞

[Zebulous.2934]

I would like a personal blacklist. The inability to communicate with people on my blacklist, and the inability for either player to see if the other has logged in.  I don't want the game to notify the persons that I have black listed them.  They are free to assume that I am simply ignoring them.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Alright, seems to be a recurring topic so as quickly as I can

* You shouldn't be able to see the location of people on your block list; that's just dumb.

* "Invisible" is not a solution because you can't even type into guild chat when invisible. Why should people have to hide from everyone, just to hide from a few?

* Only friends and guilds should be able to see your location.

* And while you're at it, can I have an option to toggle squad /party invite spam from non-friends? The only way to stop that is to make your own squad. It's not my fault I'm so popular.

* "This isn't a problem for me, so it isn't a problem at all. Just deal with it ezclap even though I've never actually dealt with it. " Cool, thanks for your great insight. I hope you never need anything, or run into any problem, because you know what? It probably doesn't affect me either, so it's not a problem lmao. Just get gud! If you ever need help on anything, I'll be very happy to not only not help you, but also remind you it's not my problem.

Actually I suppose a lot of people are very lucky to not realize how petty people are, and how a combination of anonymity and excess free time can lead to some pretty messed up stuff. Some people have literally no life and have tons of time to try and make others miserable.

I've been pretty fortunate to attract very few of these crazies. But I've seen a fair share of salt, like people who write me long winded entire mails in-game about my lack of moral fortitude because of forum posts. To me, this is just all part of the memes and mostly harmless. (Note that if you send me stuff, everyone in the Discords I join WILL be seeing it)

 

but not everyone wants to deal with that. And I've also seen a lot of this repeated bullying and targeting of some individuals over the course of months and years. I'm sure the target has already blocked them all, but I still don't want to be seeing that crap. (Anet does eventually come around to banning though)

Edited May 17, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Charall.4710]

So I have posted about this before but wanted to follow up with things again a little more in depth.

Lot's of people are aware I am not a huge fan of guild wars 2's friendslist system and think it need to be changed, imma go into things such as "consent", "abuse", "stalking", etc here so this is not going to be a very upbeat post.

It is going to be realistic, it is going to be truthful, and it's going to potentially be controversial knowing my views on it but here goes.

_____________________________

The Problems with the Friends List

Consent
Players play an MMORPG to have fun and for alot of people fun includes consenting to certain activities, one of the big ones is people adding others to their friendslist to group up in game and do content with. The huge problem with guild wars 2's friendslist is there is no consent needed, people can add you to their friendslist whenever they want and see your account/character whenever you log into one and even see where you go.

I will acknowledge Anet actually did a silent change that they never talked about which is when a player is blocked? said player cannot add you to their friendslist, but this is not enough. It feeds into the next situation.

Abuse
Due to the the friendslist being based on account and not requring requests to be sent beforehand, Players can just be added at will and be harassed by those they maybe killed in WvW or PvP or accidentally wiped, etc. Theres really any number of ways people get upset so it's near impossible to pinpoint a specific "Well maybe you shouldnt have done this" to justify the abuse from other players adding people and sending them /tells repeatedly in verbal abuse/harassment in game. Yes. This. Is. A. Wide. Spread. Problem.

Having the ability to freely know where players are and be able to /tell them without them giving permission not only allows for abuse, but also the next issue.

Stalking
Countless times in guild wars 2 I have recieved /tells from people who have told me they have been stalked/harassed/run out of certain parts of the community because others got upset for them in one form or another or just disliked something about them, Again I am going to say this. Regardless of the persons behavior, it is no excuse for the friendslist being abused in such a way. Stalking is mentally damaging and it can lead others to spread bad word about the game as well. As that word spread it does in fact, impact your gameplay due to the negative views on the game keeping players away.

__________________________

The easiest most effective way to solve the problem in 2022-2023

Just make the friendslist require people to right click others and send a friend request like every other MMORPG, this negates the ability for others to randomly add people and know where they are, can help prevent people from using the friendslist to harass/stalk/abuse others, and in combination with the block system feature Anet has recently implemented? can entirely stop any unwanted contact as such outside of the usual say/map chat trash talking.


Edit: Anet has also made the blocklist not show players online or their locations anymore, the friendslist is still a widely used feature for this though.

Ending Conclusion

Consent is entirely important, friend requests are the logical option.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Dravvi.3146