Do you think this will be the last expansion for GW2?

[witcher.3197]

On 11/27/2021 at 12:56 PM, Vayne.8563 said:

I get it.  I felt that way when they added raids to the game. I just think that literature, fiction, games it all evolves. Nothing stays the same. D&D today is not the same D&D I played 40 years ago. Music has evolved too. That's not the same either. You either embrace the change, or you live in the past.

Chess?

Besides, everyone knows the MMO community hates change. Why do you think just about every major MMO is doing a "classic" release right now? Knowing that, making sweeping changes isn't a daring or logical choice, it's a dumb one. You can't explain people why they should like something if they don't.

[Ellye.9123]

1 hour ago, witcher.3197 said:

Chess?

Besides, everyone knows the MMO community hates change. Why do you think just about every major MMO is doing a "classic" release right now? Knowing that, making sweeping changes isn't a daring or logical choice, it's a dumb one. You can't explain people why they should like something if they don't.

Only if by "every major MMO" you meant "one major MMO"; and the level of success of that was... debatable.

Meanwhile, some years ago, you had Final Fantasy XIV making sweeping changes from 1.0 to 2.0 and saving their game, or TESO making sweeping changes with the launch of Tamriel Unlimited and likewise saving their game.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Ellye.9123

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

I don't think its the last expansion, but I really only see one more expansion after this.

• GW2 has reached a point where there isn't much left in the way of "big new feature" to add into an expansion that people will be excited about. The only really big feature GW2 doesn't have that people ask for frequently is player housing, but that would just be the guild decoration system in a more limited space, even if they gave us something like Caudecus' manor to decorate.
• We are also fast approaching there being so many elite specs in the game that classes have become too similar to each other/share too many mechanics that class individuality is degrading. Doing more then one more expansion would just make that problem worse. Also, classes like Warrior have all of about 4 weapons they don't have access to, and I don't see them doing a scepter/focus/staff warrior elite spec. So like... maybe one more expansion until they don't have any more viable weapons to add? You also dont want any class to have access to everyone weapon in the first place for the same class difference reasons mentioned earlier.
• Similarly, on the subject of narrative, GW2 has pretty much finished up all the major plotlines, and the vast majority of the smaller plotlines, its set up over the years. With EoD seemingly ending the dragon plot, LWS6 could easily wrap up the god plot with Lyssa, and a LWS7 could wrap up the remaining side stories. If they wanted to do an Xpack 4/LWS8 based around a mist plot they could, but I don't see that lasting multiple xpacks/LW seasons.

So maybe one more Xpack, and 2-3 LW seasons after this before I thin GW2 would be really out of things to do.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[mercury ranique.2170]

I think GW2 has a bright future...
But also, some things has to change.

I think before the next expansion, the game needs a massive overhaul.
I am not just saying lifting the gameplay up to a new level, but also renewing what we know now as the core game.

I do believe that now the era of dragons has finished, the next part of the game needs a new start. So new races, new starting maps/leveling maps and a new unexplored part of the world with updated graphics and gameplay. The current game can exist as a massive free to play part of the game. But a new (paid) campaign is needed to offer people a new fresh start and a new overall experience.. After that there is also room for expansions.

[witcher.3197]

3 hours ago, Ellye.9123 said:

Only if by "every major MMO" you meant "one major MMO"; and the level of success of that was... debatable.

Meanwhile, some years ago, you had Final Fantasy XIV making sweeping changes from 1.0 to 2.0 and saving their game, or TESO making sweeping changes with the launch of Tamriel Unlimited and likewise saving their game.

Debatable? Classic WoW had 1 million+ concurrent views on twitch for the release, millions of returning subs, is currently in the middle of their first classic expansions and they already rereleased Classic again. That is not debatable, that's a massive hit.

And it's not just WoW. 2007 Runescape is more popular than the new version, Lineage I is more popular than Lineage II, even Aion's getting a classic release.

The TESO and FFXIV examples are a completely different subject. There you had 2 terrible launches with tanking player numbers and the reworks saved the games because they were both necessary and better than the original. Here we're talking about things that worked, getting changed.

We're getting a bit derailed here, the original topic is how the game world and setting is going through too many changes. GW2 alienated a lot of GW1 players when it released, partly because they changed Tyria a little too much. Now they are changing even more things. Things people used to love as they were, and they are being replaced, not improved.

If 10 people like something and you give them what they want, you'll have 10 happy customers. If you change the product drastically, some might like it even more, but some will inevitably feel alienated. Going from a high-fantasy setting to sci-fi is not "logical" progression, it's narrative suicide.

Edited December 13, 2021 by witcher.3197

[Gibson.4036]

18 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

GW2 alienated a lot of GW1 players when it released, partly because they changed Tyria a little too much. Now they are changing even more things. Things people used to love as they were, and they are being replaced, not improved.

If 10 people like something and you give them what they want, you'll have 10 happy customers. If you change the product drastically, some might like it even more, but some will inevitably feel alienated. Going from a high-fantasy setting to sci-fi is not "logical" progression, it's narrative suicide.

Well, they did give us "adventure from one central lobby" during IBS. That surely made some GW1 loyalists remember the good old days, right? 😄

I don't really understand the whiplash around "sci fi". Maybe because some of my earliest characters were Asura? From launch I was competing for the Snaff prize by presenting a magi-tech invention created by my krewe and I. From there I went on to kill an undead dragon with lazers and dirigibles.

The first big story added to the game involved steampunk sky-pirates, clockwork fem-bots, and a crazy inventor attacking LA with a giant drill.

Jade-tech doesn't look like a departure from any of that to me.

GW2 was always a mishmash of fantasy ideas, and never started in a place of strict medieval or even rennaissance fantasy.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I'm not sure how anyone would not have noticed "Sci-fi" from the pre-release trailer showing Rata Sum.  My first thought was that it reminded me of the Death Star.  (Of course, it didn't end up looking quite like that, but....)

[witcher.3197]

On 12/14/2021 at 4:58 PM, Gibson.4036 said:

Well, they did give us "adventure from one central lobby" during IBS. That surely made some GW1 loyalists remember the good old days, right? 😄

I don't really understand the whiplash around "sci fi". Maybe because some of my earliest characters were Asura? From launch I was competing for the Snaff prize by presenting a magi-tech invention created by my krewe and I. From there I went on to kill an undead dragon with lazers and dirigibles.

The first big story added to the game involved steampunk sky-pirates, clockwork fem-bots, and a crazy inventor attacking LA with a giant drill.

Jade-tech doesn't look like a departure from any of that to me.

GW2 was always a mishmash of fantasy ideas, and never started in a place of strict medieval or even rennaissance fantasy.

Those are also kind of a problem, but the asura are sort of a different topic.

The real problem is that they are doing this to Cantha. Everyone expects the asura to be more tech heavy, and the Aetherblades were a new faction so who cares, it's what they are.

Cantha is different because it was the most high-fantasy, spiritual land of the franchise with interesting cultures. Anet decided to wipe away most of the cultures and turn the continent into a homogenous, very high tech setting that's straight out of a sci-fi game. They took something that was established to be a certain way, and they pulled a complete 180 until nothing remained of the original vision. Some call it progress but it's more about replacement.

Most people who asked for Cantha did so because they liked Cantha the way it was. This Cantha is nothing like the one we loved, so I ask: why even give us Cantha, if Anet isn't interested in recapturing the essence of the original? They could still progress the region forward in time without killing literally everything about the source material. And if they aren't interested in anything Canthan, they should've given us a new region and then nobody would be complaining about it.

Imagine if Anet all of a sudden made asura forsake any and all technology and they went back to sticks and stones. That's the level of thematical shift we're talking here.

Edited December 17, 2021 by witcher.3197

[Gibson.4036]

38 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

 

The real problem is that they are doing this to Cantha. 

 

Okay, I can see that. Though the typical objection seems to feel that GW2 has suddenly changed direction, instead of that Cantha probably should have been left in GW1 rather than morph to fit GW2.

[witcher.3197]

2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Okay, I can see that. Though the typical objection seems to feel that GW2 has suddenly changed direction, instead of that Cantha probably should have been left in GW1 rather than morph to fit GW2.

I think those complaints are valid too, but like you said, the sci-fi elements were here since the beginning of GW2 so it's not completely out of nowhere.

GW1 was fantasy, GW2 is a mix of many things, and now the scale is tipping heavily into the direction of sci-fi so arguably the direction is changing and many are unhappy with that.

[Mesket.5728]

On 12/13/2021 at 3:31 PM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Also, classes like Warrior have all of about 4 weapons they don't have access to, and I don't see them doing a scepter/focus/staff warrior elite spec.

dude, we are still with only 1 single role in PVE,.. we have soooo much room to add gameplay. But at this point I think ANET really doesn't care and will probably give us ANOTHER dps bannerslave spec lol

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

6 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

Most people who asked for Cantha did so because they liked Cantha the way it was. This Cantha is nothing like the one we loved, so I ask: why even give us Cantha, if Anet isn't interested in recapturing the essence of the original?

I loved Cantha in GW1, and I love what I've seen about Cantha for EoD. Cantha was always more advanced then the rest of the world. It was even mentioned back in the manuals or w/e that when Cantha first established contact with Tyria and Elona both realized just how utterly outclassed they were by what Cantha had accomplished. I want and expect Cantha to wipe the floor with whatever is going on in Tyria and Elona, because they always have.

[Krzysztof.5973]

They will literally never in seven hells straight out say to their customers "Yeah, this is the last expansion". Death of content is never announced in this game, I expect nothing else for the game as a whole. 

[Anyandrell.6238]

Nobody noticed that they said "there will be more after End of Dragons and after Guild Wars 2"???

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I've seen the statements about there will be more after End of Dragons; I've not seen anything about more after Guild Wars 2.  😕

[Fueki.4753]

8 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

I think those complaints are valid too, but like you said, the sci-fi elements were here since the beginning of GW2 so it's not completely out of nowhere.

All the Sci-fi elements prior to PoF came from to the Asura, which are supposed to be the super-smart race. Even the tech used by the Aetherblades is Asuran (specifically Inquest).

But the toxic green eyesores are human technology. Maybe it'd have been better, if an Asura had invented it.

 

4 hours ago, Anyandrell.6238 said:

Nobody noticed that they said "there will be more after End of Dragons and after Guild Wars 2"???

That doesn't automatically mean more expansions. It can simply refer to one final season of living world to wrap up any loose ends that may still remain.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Burial.1958]

On 12/13/2021 at 7:31 PM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

I don't think its the last expansion, but I really only see one more expansion after this.

• GW2 has reached a point where there isn't much left in the way of "big new feature" to add into an expansion that people will be excited about. The only really big feature GW2 doesn't have that people ask for frequently is player housing, but that would just be the guild decoration system in a more limited space, even if they gave us something like Caudecus' manor to decorate.
• We are also fast approaching there being so many elite specs in the game that classes have become too similar to each other/share too many mechanics that class individuality is degrading. Doing more then one more expansion would just make that problem worse. Also, classes like Warrior have all of about 4 weapons they don't have access to, and I don't see them doing a scepter/focus/staff warrior elite spec. So like... maybe one more expansion until they don't have any more viable weapons to add? You also dont want any class to have access to everyone weapon in the first place for the same class difference reasons mentioned earlier.
• Similarly, on the subject of narrative, GW2 has pretty much finished up all the major plotlines, and the vast majority of the smaller plotlines, its set up over the years. With EoD seemingly ending the dragon plot, LWS6 could easily wrap up the god plot with Lyssa, and a LWS7 could wrap up the remaining side stories. If they wanted to do an Xpack 4/LWS8 based around a mist plot they could, but I don't see that lasting multiple xpacks/LW seasons.

So maybe one more Xpack, and 2-3 LW seasons after this before I thin GW2 would be really out of things to do.

 That can be solved when they introduce new Specs with new weapons. 

[Gibson.4036]

ANet, themeselves, probably dont' even know if this is the last expansion.

It really has nothing to do with "does the story have somewhere to go" nor "are there really any new things to add to the game?"

It has everything to do with "is the game still bringing in revenue, and would making a new expansion cause it to continue or increase its revenue?"

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

4 hours ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

 That can be solved when they introduce new Specs with new weapons. 

They are never going to add new weapons becuase that would involve having to go back and re-balance the new weapons for literally everything produced thus far. Its not reasonable.

[Gibson.4036]

31 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

They are never going to add new weapons becuase that would involve having to go back and re-balance the new weapons for literally everything produced thus far. Its not reasonable.

But, but, we really need macuahuitl!

Their omission from available weapons is a glaring hole.

Oh, wait.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pearl_Sabre

[Dawanarth.4601]

20 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

They are never going to add new weapons becuase that would involve having to go back and re-balance the new weapons for literally everything produced thus far. Its not reasonable.

There still the possibility of:

• Land Spear and Trident: Spear and Trident already have many weapon skin, though they have less than the others
• Alternate Usage: Using an Espec would change how the weapon work (would be harder to implement)

But at least Trident and Spear can be great candidate for espec:

Trident: Warrior (Gladiator/Retiarii); Necromancer (Squale or Lantern Fish)

Spear: Guardian (Paragon), Thief (Largos Inspired, maybe flowing Shadows)

[Ashantara.8731]

@OP: No, but likely the last one I bought. My characters simply aren't dressed properly for a cyberpunk world - a shame.

[Freya.9075]

On 12/13/2021 at 10:41 PM, witcher.3197 said:

Debatable? Classic WoW had 1 million+ concurrent views on twitch for the release, millions of returning subs, is currently in the middle of their first classic expansions and they already rereleased Classic again. That is not debatable, that's a massive hit.

And it's not just WoW. 2007 Runescape is more popular than the new version, Lineage I is more popular than Lineage II, even Aion's getting a classic release.

The TESO and FFXIV examples are a completely different subject. There you had 2 terrible launches with tanking player numbers and the reworks saved the games because they were both necessary and better than the original. Here we're talking about things that worked, getting changed.

We're getting a bit derailed here, the original topic is how the game world and setting is going through too many changes. GW2 alienated a lot of GW1 players when it released, partly because they changed Tyria a little too much. Now they are changing even more things. Things people used to love as they were, and they are being replaced, not improved.

If 10 people like something and you give them what they want, you'll have 10 happy customers. If you change the product drastically, some might like it even more, but some will inevitably feel alienated. Going from a high-fantasy setting to sci-fi is not "logical" progression, it's narrative suicide.

Wow classic might have had a good start indeed. Many ppl went for the nostalgic feeling it gave. However if you check the 2021 November player count it’s clear it lost the player base and basically flopped. Ppl realized it’s not the same anymore. The changes to the game made the classic game feel slow and boring. 
 

changes might feel bad and scary for many ppl but change can be good if you embrace it. Gw2 should not be gw1. The world changed as it should do.  

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Freya.9075 said:

changes might feel bad and scary for many ppl but change can be good if you embrace it. Gw2 should not be gw1. The world changed as it should do.  

Not in a fashion that feels like a natural development that makes sense, and that assessment has nothing to do with people wanting the game to be like GW1. It mixes not only genres but also time periods that cannot co-exist in a credible way.

This post sums it up nicely:

 

[Kossage.9072]

On 11/19/2021 at 11:27 PM, eisberg.2379 said:

Well, the entire Guild Wars 2 saga has been about the dragons, with the next expansion bringing that to a close, it can also suggest it would be the last expansion.  Do they change directions and make an entire new threat that doesn't have to do with the dragons for future expansions, or do they end Guild Wars 2 and the team focus on Guild Wars 3 or an entire new IP?

As long as the company earns enough revenue and the powers that be decide to keep developing the game (even if/when other projects emerge from the studio), we should keep getting expansions. If older games such as EverQuest 2 and even the original EverQuest still get expansions, I don't see why ANet can't deliver such even if some far future expansions might end up being smaller in scope due to resource allocation reasons.

Cutting up and sacrificing the sadly rushed Icebrood Saga in favor of End of Dragons is enough proof that the suits who gifted the devs the opportunity to work on an expansion (while seemingly wanting the expac done now rather than allowing the saga to run its natural course with additional zones before leading the story to EoD) aren't happy with just the living world model's revenue and player interest, and it makes sense financially. While I would've been thrilled to have a 20+ episode Icebrood Saga (as there definitely was more than enough charr, norn, asura, dwarf, dredge, skritt, jotun, quaggan, centaur, human etc. lore and recurring characters as well as newcomer heroes and villains for the planned Jormag and Primordus storyline) to truly flesh out the Far Shiverpeaks, charr lands, the Tarnished Coast, Woodland Cascades, and the Depths of Tyria and allow us players to receive said content for "free" over the span of many years, many (if not most) players preferred the true and tested paid box expansion model with living world seasons in between, so here we are.

Regarding the plot of GW2 after the overarching dragon storyline ends, we're basically facing a similar closure of a decade-long story arc that WoW and FFXIV are currently undergoing. While FFXIV's Endwalker appears to signal the end of the overarching Zodiark and Ascian threat as a new dawn, they have more ideas and new threats in store for the Eorzean heroes in the future. Andrew Gray, one of the lead developers at ANet and one of the still remaining veteran devs from very early GW1 days, posted a rather fascinating comment on these forums a few years ago that I agree with: he views the GW1 god-focused plot and GW2's dragon-focused plot as all part of a greater tapestry that basically involves the burden and responsibility of magic. Both gods and dragons used magic for their own desires, hurting the lesser mortal races in the process. Similarly, mortals in their neverending greed will eventually want to become powerful via harnessing magic, so they'll repeat these greater entities' mistakes before long just like the great wars of King Doric's time were waged for the control of magic.

As such, I can see future GW2 storylines dealing with powerful entities (return of the gods, arrival of demons, emergence of the god-slayers and tanneks if they're still canonical etc.) or just mortal nations/factions fighting for magic as Tyria will be experiencing a new golden age with the demise of planet-ravaging old guard of Elder Dragons.

Who's to say that more Bangars, Jokos and Faolains can't emerge from the shadows? Will Aurene's ever-expanding Crystal Bloom religious cult turn fanatical in their worship of her as certain IRL religions became (imagine if Sons of Svanir start gradually viewing Aurene as the new Dragon and the mightiest predator on Tyria despite her being a "girly" dragon, and they start killing people in her name to honor her?), will we see new balancers rising to protect the All and each of these Elder Dragon replacements gathering similar cults around themselves?

If all of these cults and their "dragon" masters want to protect the world but disagree with how to accomplish that (mirroring the fascinating if all too short Caithe and Ryland philosophical debate in the Brisban Wildlands dragon response mission), these "dragon guilds" could eventually come to blows and potentially lead the world into the Fourth Guild War canonically while we try to prevent a religious/philosophical war from breaking out between these global multiracial factions.

Similarly, we know that demons are antagonists that are even worse than Elder Dragons because they are pure evil (due to literally being born from malignant energies in the Mists...although it'd be fascinating to meet potential antivillain or antihero demons who try to forge a different path than their sadistic brethren while trying to understand their reason for existence); demons hate mortals and desire to tempt/torture/manipulatethem  while the magic-hungry dragons could be argued to not care for such things in such a manner and thus aren't as evil as demons. Who knows if a disguised archdemon or two (or even Balthazar's evil half-brother Menzies the Lord of Destruction if he still lives) could try to manipulate, say, the leader(s) of Doern Velazques's potentially Hispanic but oddly secretive human homeland (potentially west across the ocean in Sunrise Crest?) to invade Central Tyria, Cantha, and Elona to bring enlightenment to the "new world" of ignorant savages now that the Elder Dragons of old no longer pose a threat to their crusade, while the demons use the "righteous" bloodshed that follows as a means to prolong death and suffering on all the four continents so they can feast on all the emotions and pain and flesh while making the mortals they so despise pay for the sin of existing.

We could explore other aspect of the fallout of dragon demises too such as the revelations about other Pale Trees such as Malyck's Tree and the sylvari within those Groves and how they differ from the Dreamers, a Nightmare Court civil war to mirror Duchess Chrysanthea's struggles for the throne with Efram's hard path to do the same in the Flame Legion, the current power vacuum among the Spirits of the Wild while the four Great Spirits are weakened and recovering (likely as long as the Pale Tree herself is weakened) and if some ambitious and morally dubious spirits like Nulfastu (if he still lives) could try to usurp the Pantheon of the Wild while we may run into more "exotic" Spirits of the Wild like Gorilla and Whale, the existence of black norn (we still don't know where Braham's black norn dad Borje the Sun Chaser came from and why he was regarded as a great hero equal to Eir), potential discovery of a savage goblinoid clan of cavemen-level asura (similar to the earliest asura concept art) in the darkest depths of Tyria and us hopefully finally meeting with King Jalis and his dwarven clansmen if they still live, the revenge of Adelbern and his empowered Foefire army who should be charged up with all the slain dragons' magic via the ley lines while we find out who the Heir of Ascalon is and if Ascalon have ever truly have a proper charr/human duumvirate leading the land in true harmony, the exploratory awe of finally entering not only tengu's Dominion of Winds but also the so far undiscovered largos capital under the sea, political turmoil among charr if the charismatic populist tribune Fume Brighteye decides to challenge Mia Kindleshot for the Iron throne while being more politically savvy about her ambitions than Bangar was, metaphysical exploration of Tyrian cosmology via revealing the truth behind Koda the Creator and his dark Rage and if he's the creator deity of Tyria etc.

The above are just the tip of the iceberg of the hundreds of possibilities for future plots just from the wealth of GW1 and GW2 lore shown so far, not to mention what other, unrelated plots the writers may yet wish to explore. Planet Thyria and her many continents and peoples are ripe for exploring once the Elder Dragons are no longer blocking our way, and hopefully this means not only making new friends and enemies but also witnessing the occasional return of old ones too (not just the major players but also some of the folks from core personal story times too). 🙂