Thoughts (and prayers) after coming back to GW2

[VeriBeri.9528]

I am a returning player, back to GW2 after nearly 6 years, happily bought all the expansions, thinking how cool all the new content is, and how fun the new mesmer specs must be. Mesmer was my first character right at the launch, and it was my main ever since. So, after playing for about a month and catching up on all the content, I decided to check what's the current best build. First thing that caught my attention: there's almost no recent results, only old threads, sometimes updated to say it's been "slightly nerfed". Things that came up: "its like any other power build but with hard mode turned on, more effort same reward", "1) youre already pulling a weird by bringing mesmer to fracs2) power chrono and condi mirage are only ‘really good’ when your group is bad/pug". From the discretize site "The Power Chronomancer is the strongest (and only) build for Mesmer in fractals. (...) To succeed as a Power Chronomancer in higher-end groups you'll need to be able to adapt your rotation on the go and push the limits of your class, but even then you will probably be a hinderance for your group". So I'm basically stuck with one build, which is not very good at all? Needless to say, my initial excitement is completely gone. Seeing how the new elite spec is even worse than previous two, I don't know if I want to keep playing. Mesmer has been almost extinct in pve and wvw for few years now, and none of the devs actually feel like they are ruining the only unique class in their game? Why, because it's too complicated to balance, so just nerf it to the ground, so no one plays it anymore? What's the point of tryharding through sweat and tears, to play the squishy, underpowered class, with no passive damage increases, and no weapon variety, to barely catch up with everyone? Everything except sword is trash dps, so yeah, there are 2 new specs with 2 new weapons, too bad I have to sit on the same boring weapon, that I had to camp 7 years ago (but now with ruined Phantasmal Warden that never moves to the target!). This is just sad, and completely ruined the game experience for me, because I'm not going to switch classes, just to enjoy pve content without being a hinderance. I know there's salt in this post, but I come from times when the meta was 4 warriors and a mesmer, who provided nice burst, utility, cc, and support for everyone to sit back and spin to win. Now every single class has the same utility, more damage, cc, and better support. I don't see any nerfs being done to warrior though, still does 20k dps with two buttons. I came back, because I like playing mesmer, and the only thing I can now properly do, is to join champ train (although not nearly as efficiently as other classes). Seriously, what is the balance team thinking about all this? Are there plans to buff and rebalance anything, or they're just going to throw in the Virtuoso, and tell mesmers, that they get what they deserve?

[mungozen.2379]

Slow down there a moment…

We are about to see several revisions to the new eSpecs alongside (most likely) tweaks and balances to all professions through the launch of EoD. Before you start complaining, wait until we get through this to decide if Mesmer is not exciting for you. 
 

As well, skilled Mesmer can exist anywhere in the game. Profession build sites distill the information down to its most basic statements. The average player playing the average meta build should probably not be playing a Mesmer in T4. 

When the post EoD meta shakes down I don’t expect Mesmer to be in a significantly better place, but I do believe that skilled Mesmer players will be found in all parts of the game.

[Joxer.6024]

I too am hoping for some positives as  Mesmer is the only class i dont have and am keen to give it a shot, but not if insta kicks are the norm. Sad that in 2022 that is still a thing.

Just let people play what they want and if they suck at mechanics, fine, say bye-bye. 

[Noodle Ant.1605]

i recognise some of those lines as one of my own (the 1) and 2) ones), but its actually more in the context how people like to try things out and then they get disappointed that theyre not doing as much dps as {insert class here}. basically, when you play any flavor of mesmer as dps in given context, you sign an invisible contract that states that youre playing mesmer because you want to, not because its efficient/meta

but the problem isnt actually that mesmer is "unplayable" bad, its just that a portion of the gw2 endgame community is a little too fixated on meta than it should be, and that its best to be prepared to meet some possible resistance if you choose to think differently

[Infusion.7149]

If you step outside the doom and gloom of the forums, mesmer is actually used in both PVE and WVW even if not PUG meta. It's even been seen in the automated tournaments as side mirage and other such duelist builds.

Here's a hint for PVE raid: https://lucky-noobs.com/teamcompositions
It doesn't even include matthias where mirage reflect is a PUG requested role ; nor on Twin Largos which is a mirage-heavy fight ("purple DPS"). On Soulless Horror people often run mirages as well although torment is strong there so condition renegades and scourges are seen there ; Cairn has high confusion damage triggers but it isn't exactly a difficult raid so people just ignore comp there for the most part.

Some inspiration for you fractal wise

Spoiler

 

Raiding inspiration for you:

Spoiler

 

For WVW , see this recommended build:
https://gw2mists.com/builds/mesmer/support-chronomancer
 

PVP ATs:
 

Spoiler

All the way to semifinals

As a launch-day mesmer player I see all the people complaining that only started when chrono was a thing (post HoT) as weak in resolve.
 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Salt Mode.3780]

I love when people post videos that had lots of takes and edits complete as a way to tell you that its fine. The truth is NO mesmer isn't fine, is it useable yes any class is usable but it just requires more then others to make it as efficient as other classes.

This isn't gloom and doom as some might say it, its just history of patch notes and nerfs mesmer has a whole received over the years, this isn't an opinionated statement this is facts. 

Mesmer has been my main since day 1 of gw2 and those who continue to stay inside this copium that mesmer is fine after all the changes and nerfs are deluding themselves.

Again if you continue to play mesmer that is ultimately your choice you can make it work for sure just be aware that you might get picked over a "meta build class" especially in PvE content. 

Generally in WvW you would only need 1 Mesmer in the group and that usually is the commander. Glamour were never really updated nor have any traits. In terms of stealth engi can provide better setups then Mesmer can. Terms of roaming there are better choices like Rev and thieves, Core mesmer has the issue where if you fail a burst you generally have nothing to back up that fail burst, chrono sits the same way with core mesmer. Mirage on the other hand is probably the best of the 3 specs to roam with both power and condi even with one dodge. 

sPvP....really no comment, the game mode is pretty much lost with amulets taken away runes sigils etc.

Overall competitive wise Mesmers are newb stompers, and in PvE well you can bring it but there are just better options.

[Yoci.2481]

17 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I love when people post videos that had lots of takes and edits complete as a way to tell you that its fine. The truth is NO mesmer isn't fine, is it useable yes any class is usable but it just requires more then others to make it as efficient as other classes.

This isn't gloom and doom as some might say it, its just history of patch notes and nerfs mesmer has a whole received over the years, this isn't an opinionated statement this is facts. 

Mesmer has been my main since day 1 of gw2 and those who continue to stay inside this copium that mesmer is fine after all the changes and nerfs are deluding themselves.

Again if you continue to play mesmer that is ultimately your choice you can make it work for sure just be aware that you might get picked over a "meta build class" especially in PvE content. 

Generally in WvW you would only need 1 Mesmer in the group and that usually is the commander. Glamour were never really updated nor have any traits. In terms of stealth engi can provide better setups then Mesmer can. Terms of roaming there are better choices like Rev and thieves, Core mesmer has the issue where if you fail a burst you generally have nothing to back up that fail burst, chrono sits the same way with core mesmer. Mirage on the other hand is probably the best of the 3 specs to roam with both power and condi even with one dodge. 

sPvP....really no comment, the game mode is pretty much lost with amulets taken away runes sigils etc.

Overall competitive wise Mesmers are newb stompers, and in PvE well you can bring it but there are just better options.

100% true. A lot of developers have left the company. Mesmer looks as if it were the ones who liked Mesmer.

[phokus.8934]

2 hours ago, Yoci.2481 said:

100% true. A lot of developers have left the company. Mesmer looks as if it were the ones who liked Mesmer.

It definitely shows as Robert Gee was the brainchild around Chrono and Mirage and he left ANet earlier this year.  Now we're left with this mess that is called Virtuoso.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

59 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

It definitely shows as Robert Gee was the brainchild around Chrono and Mirage and he left ANet earlier this year.  Now we're left with this mess that is called Virtuoso.

Chrono and mirage are not that good. 

Chrono could have been so much better, like some sort of time mage, instead is mesmer+gimmick. 

Mirage mirrors are a kittening abomination and either shouldn't exist or have some actual cool mechanics inserted into them. 

But gosh, Mirage and Chrono are masterpieces if you compare them with the garbage we're getting with eod. 

[Alpha.1308]

On 11/20/2021 at 10:26 PM, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Before you start complaining

i'm sure people said that about mirage utility skills, and the mirrors themselves

look where those still are???

On 11/21/2021 at 1:42 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

If you step outside the doom and gloom of the forums, mesmer is actually used 

y.i.k.e.s.

imagine trying to make a point with "it's actually used"

then actually linking that hot garbage wasted stat-stick that's called a "chrono support" for wvw

(i don't actually personally care about your other arguments for pve/pvp, i only wvw/gvg, so i'm gonna nit pick that part and where my "dOoM AnD GlOoM" comes from, considering that's the game mode i play, and yes, in-game, it IS actually just that bad, and not just fake keyboard warrior complaints, and more people than just you say that exact same thing, so this isn't really an attack on you, just the overall argument and the devs neglecting the game mode overall and in particular this class)  

 

an entire strip meta in wvw and that sad excuse of a "build" brings concentration on a class with no boon application, and healing power on a class with absolutely no healing output at all

 

other classes bring strips with almost every single button press, and this class gets freaking mimic+null field to clog their utility buttons to pad arcdps stats like it's helpful because in open field pugmanding people will throw it out anywhere they can to pad as much numbers as possible to seem relevant 

 

chrono brings nothing but grav well and curtain to wvw, and it should have been the class with wells like reaper/scourge, it's pathetic and honestly excruciatingly sad that we have current chrono wells (grav well is strong though, don't get me wrong, just not an-entire-class-necessity-strong, you can kill people on curtain, itself, you don't need grav on a curtain to confirm a kill, and core mesmer has curtain, making chrono basically redundant, it's used because it's..... there, and basically the best option, but only because surrounding options are really just that bad)

 

not really picking a fight with you, more like the devs for allowing it, but it's mostly unfortunate to read "forum doom and gloom" while the actual game mode is actually having a problem

 

an entire bar on herald is used

an entire bar on scourge is used

an entire bar on reaper is used

an entire bar on firebrand is used

an entire bar on scrapper is used

 

chrono not only has an entire bar of wasted weapon skills, but an entire bar of wasted class mechanics (f1-3 are literally only pbaoe  SINGLE strips, which scourge can already do while dealing damage, AND cleansing, AND CC, AND granting barrier) and wasting 2 utility skills on sub-par strips (it can pad stats in the long run, but it doesn't burst-strip like Scourge f2 does with removing 2 on cast, Null Field is 1/s, the application is honestly worse, and that's where it mostly matters in an actual fight, not that null field is bad, but literally it's just such a questionable comparison given what else chrono lacks as a class as a whole)

 

don't even get me started on the selfish trait selections, because that's all mesmer has 

 

 

this class has had nothing for 10 years for fights larger than 10+ due to only having a really awful pet mechanic, then wells that are literally worthless (again, minus grav) then a pick-up mechanic, now they get projectiles on virtuoso which are just gonna get reflected and do absolutely nothing in the entire game mode because literally every class poops out reflects accidentally 

 

yet people just link this chrono build and pretend it's fine because it's a dead gamemode, despite its potential of being the best rvr game out right now, because lyssa only knows new world, eso, or crowfall seriously hasn't done the genre any favors whatsoever 

 

the only remotely decent thing is mirage greatsword ambush, i mean, anecdotally, i top charts even against heralds in gvgs and open field fights, and especially pugmander groups, but even that's barely worth it because it brings absolutely nothing besides ranged pressure, and it's barely even usable due to how finicky the ambush is

 

ranting, but i mean, again, not really toward you, specifically, i know you didn't make the build, and i'm sure your point on wvw was an afterthought, but it's seriously disheartening to see this game mode get brushed aside so easily (like, again, exactly what you did, but that's why we're still in this mess, because again, it's ignored, but by the devs in particular, and then everyone just assuming this chrono build is good because???? i dunno? arcdps strip stats???)

 

8 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Chrono could have been so much better

preach 

 

8 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Mirage mirrors are a kittening abomination

P.

R.

E.

A.

C.

H.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Alpha.1308

[Infusion.7149]

You're in luck because 90% of my time is in WVW.
Keep thinking that chrono is bad and following your confirmation bias. People tag on chrono because it's more effective for veiling than using firebrand as a tag (mantras are in a cone). Why don't you take it up with gw2mists then? Or just about any content creator that makes videos for WVW?

Unless you call null field, portal, illusion of life , veil,  gravity well all useless you can't say you don't use utilities on chrono. Even focus pull and shield block / CC for boon rip and quickness is used.

That even goes for lesser used options such as mantra of concentration (stability) , mantra of resolve (AoE condi clear).

Also I don't have any idea how long you've been playing mesmer but boon chrono used to be a thing in WVW not just in PVE.

----
Just today I had someone on chrono StM on VG , Samarog, and Xera so I don't understand this idea people won't take/play chrono. You'd also be ill advised to run CFB over pChrono in KC/CA. Mirage is strong on every condi fight as well (Matthias / Soulless Horror / Twin Largos).

P.S. I'm pretty sure PUGs aren't going to allow tipcat to make hundreds of edits on a raid ; Dhuum was killed with autoattacks on mirage and there's multiple 98CM solo of MAMA on mirage with an axe (with 30k DPS).

Edited November 23, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

It is only in PVP that mesmer is bad.  In PVE they're great and in WvW they're O.K.

I recently got into raids.  Well... I've been doing them for months now.  There's two professions that I play more than any other there: revenant, and mesmer.  I play revs because alacrity is an often requested yet rarely played role.  But mesmer... that one is my choice.  I play purple because it is a one-stop shop for whatever random utility is needed for a boss.  Just today I went full STM Quickness for Vale + Spirit Run + Sloth, Alacrity Mirage for Matthias and Largos, Minstrel Tank for the entirety of wing 3 and Deimos.  Mesmers have an extremely wide toolbox of abilities that let me fill almost any role, solve any problem, or handle any bizarre quirk the boss has going on.  There isn't a single encounter where mesmer doesn't have a way to do good DPS, either.

They're great for overworld events, too.  While solo I run the dueling/illusions/chrono build that buffs me to the nines and shreds everything to death with phantasms.  The only thing that can survive the full continuum split rotation is a champion, which you can usually just kite and evade anyway.  In group events I swap to the full Diviner set, and pump out obscene amounts of quickness to the zerg  If you've ever done this, it is amazing to witness how much faster everything goes with a Diviner chrono around.  They're the strongest force multipliers in the game.  

[LKEY.9567]

You can viably play everything with your Mesmer (i can't speak for PvP so only for WvW and PvE).

But you need many different builds to do so.

Fractals, hm. Unless you play CM with good players, pChrono won't be a problem. Axe Mirage would be okay-ish too on some specific encounters.

In raids, it's great. But again - many builds.

[phokus.8934]

Power Chrono is fine for fractals and CMs with condi mirage preferred for CM 100.  You're there to kill and not set speed records and pChrono does that exceptionally well.

PvP Mirage is fine it's just other classes do more with lower APM and ease.  That's not to say it doesn't have its issues but not a dumpster like most make it out to be.

[Ombras.2853]

PvP is literally the only game mode where Mesmer is bad.

 

Could be made better in the others? Absolutely yes.

 

Do I think Anet could have done a better job the past years in that regard? Absolutely yes.

 

Do I think this subforum is plenty of crybabies? Absolutely yes.

[Salt Mode.3780]

6 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Do I think this subforum is plenty of crybabies? Absolutely yes.

In that case you should be saying this to every other sub-forum. This comment made my eyeroll so far back behind my head.

[Alpha.1308]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:59 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

Keep thinking that chrono is bad and following your confirmation bias. People tag on chrono because it's more effective for veiling than using firebrand as a tag (mantras are in a cone)

wait wattttt ahahaahahhaha

please read 

 

i didn't say chrono was bad, i said it has MASSIVELY wasted potential

 

i said chrono brings absolutely nothing besides grav well to differentiate itself from core mesmer

which is completely pathetic

maybe CS, sure, still isn't worth calling it acceptable 

 

and people tag on it because it gives them the easiest access to engagement utility in this meta (pulls, strips, and CC) to control not only their own group but the enemies while they're driving and literally having to be the head of the fight 

 

which is fine, it makes perfect sense, but that doesn't excuse the rest of everything i brought up, which i suppose you must be ignoring

 

 

 

On 11/23/2021 at 12:59 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

Unless you call null field, portal, illusion of life , veil,  gravity well all useless you can't say you don't use utilities on chrono. Even focus pull and shield block / CC for boon rip and quickness is used.

 

 

i said the class wastes buttons, as well as stats, i didn't call their utility useless    

 

this thing is using freaking minstrels

all you're stating for is health and armor, (and there's better stat combos for that) because you certainly aren't healing, and boon duration is basically irrelevant in a strip meta, but more so on a class that, what, gives allies alacrity and quickness on a single 40s cooldown skill???

boons that are already given by other classes in much quicker applications?

 

(actually, i do believe illusion of life is more or less useless, but that i'll agree is an opinion and a personal difference; it's just stupid easy to just poke at people that have been raised to double down them, which is asinine in a real fight, and not just pugmanding, but i guess it's strong for pug zergs due to how easy it is to lose sight of people)

 

the fact that they have 2 utility skills for a weaker version of a necro well is what i was talking about in particular 

 

and mantras.... yikes, those are so undertuned, they're "okayish" for additives, sure, but your group should already have cleansing and stab, if your chrono is bringing that, there's another issue, but having them as a supplement or as a driver for personal sustain is fine, they're at least good back ups for certain scenarios (fighting some weird condi builds or having gank squads forcing out stab cooldowns), but those are so niche, that's such a moot argument, that's like bringing up that elementalists have access to Tornado for like a bridge fight, like yea it's silly and all, but that's not why they'd be selected in a comp for a group

the majority of chronos are going to be (and should be) using null field/mimic/illusion, not mantras 

 

then, you have almost an entire bar of wasted skills on your weapons, and as your whole class mechanic on f1-f3

 

not to mention the build linked has sword on both weapon slots, so that fact alone makes 2 and 3 the same skill, which just removes even more skills from your bar 

 

but sword 3 is awful in a group, you reposition yourself to what? let your allies get 1 less damage soaking body??? just to maybe immob?

at least 2 can save yourself, but that's still pretty much a waste to begin with, especially using it as two weapon sets, and again, not moving puts you out of position, meaning you're not soaking damage for your group at all, something someone in M.I.N.S.T.R.E.L.S. gear should be doing to begin with...................

 

4 on focus is obviously the biggest star of the show that a core mesmer can bring of value, no argument there at all, including being a class that you can swap in a portal on, but again, both of those are C.O.R.E. mesmer

 

5 on focus is a literal joke because it's a phantasm, you know, the point of my post saying 80-90% of the class is a waste

 

4 on shield is too selfish, offers absolutely nothing for a group, but it's a reason i mentioned above that people drive on it, because at least it gives you an "out" button, which again, is fine, but you're not slotting in a mesmer to the group just to survive 

 

5 on shield is "meh" at best, it's alright for a stun/stab rip, however it's also pretty disgustingly hilarious that an "invuln" on something hit by it will cause the ability to disappear entirely, which is laughable on its own given the topic and what this skill is on 

other than that, it only gives quickness and alacrity, which is already being pooped out by renegades and scrappers

and it... blocks missiles... hurray.... big brain move with all the FBs and scrappers in the game right now

 

every.

single.

trait.

is selfish

all 3 traitlines offer quite literally absolutely nothing to an actual zerg fight

even the domination GM is stripping on CC, which you need to CC first.... which means it can't even rip the most important boon in the game mode: stab

 

i don't care if someone has 200 strips to someone's 5 

if that 200 had barely any stab ripped when we needed to CC the enemy, and just tossed them out haphazardly to remove regen/vigor/swiftness in a fight, i literally couldn't care less and i value the one who stripped 5 targets of their stab proc into their deaths much, much higher 

 

 

On 11/23/2021 at 12:59 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

Also I don't have any idea how long you've been playing mesmer but boon chrono used to be a thing in WVW not just in PVE.

i've mained mesmer since the game launched, and have been my guilds primary mesmer since i joined and started wvwing about a year or so after launch and i got into wvw after having my fill of pve and pulling mobs into a corner to just aoe faceroll 

 

support chrono with the broken signet of inspiration had to be removed, sorry not sorry, i want a boon support chrono to be a thing, definitely, sure, (actually i'd rather USEFUL wells that aren't just grav well, like Calamity ticking for cripple/weakness, that'd be a freaking GREAT well, especially if it dealt damage)

 

but THAT support chrono was just simply too much

 

maybe not so much now that there's more easy access to boon strips in the game since PoF's power creep in that area?

 

but that still makes it..... questionable, at best, because again, you get basically every boon elsewhere, and now you're banking on it coming from ONE ability on a 20s cooldown, which is awful in a game about strips:

you want application, not just duration (not saying concentration is bad, but again, in THIS particular case, it is) 

 

however, what chrono is now.... is just.... disheartening 

 

 

TL:DR;

grav well and Continuum Split are just simply not an excuse for an entire e-spec

and the "best build" that we can use that involves having two wasted stat selections, just simply because there IS "nothing better" due to the abysmal OPTIONS that we have available, is horribly sad 

 

[Infusion.7149]

You have a wall of text that looks more poetry than prose. There's nothing stopping you from running a more offensive mesmer stat set , just keep in mind that due to Vicious Expression and Mind Spike your damage is greatly lowered. Similarly there's nothing stopping you from running inspiration + domination similar to PVE StM Chrono. Except revenants running brutality there really is no targeted boon rip so I don't understand the point about boon rips: it's certainly better to have null field than a boon corrupt when you are dealing with scrappers.

Chrono has alacrity innately when you shatter, that differentiates it from core already.

What does "massively wasted potential" even mean? In the same post you say boon chrono was too strong. You're at odds with your own opinion. I for one don't think it was too strong because of the skill involved, only highly skilled chronos could pull it off in a competitive setting (i.e. not a PUG build similar to scrapper and firebrand where everything is just fire and forget) and that was really before scourges and superspeed meta.

Your only real point is shield 4 is defensive, well guess what you don't have to run shield if you don't want to. You lose on on unlimited boon rips from shield 5 though, so that's your choice.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Yoci.2481]

I think they made a lot of valid points that you seem to just brush away.

[Alpha.1308]

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You have a wall of text that looks more poetry than prose.

 

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

What does "massively wasted potential" even mean?

yea, so, i can't help you if you refuse to read

these two sentences are just so conflicting to each other 

the "wall of text" is literally a step by step explanation of it 

  

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

There's nothing stopping you from running a more offensive mesmer stat set

also, there is

and that's the entire point 

mesmer cannot utilize basically any stat in a large group, because everything in their kit is counterintuitive to the game mode  

(except... greatsword ambush.... but it doesn't do much else) 

everything is either projectiles (coughs in virtuoso), condis which are trash in large fights and not to mention have been nerfed into oblivion on this specific class due to its dueling potential, and literally everything being centered around illusions/shatters that can't be used in a fight of more than 10+ people

 

and StM is not going to do anything, scrappers already poop out quickness much better than this thing that requires you to have clones, which again, are the problem in large scale fights

 

  

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Except revenants running brutality there really is no targeted boon rip so I don't understand the point about boon rips: it's certainly better to have null field than a boon corrupt when you are dealing with scrappers.

i don't understand this argument 

revenants weren't the problem

necros and spellbreakers with their boon rips that shave off 2+ at a time was the argument 

not this one random trait on revenant 

also.... corruption is absolutely strong vs scrappers, ever since the nerf to their cleanse to boons trait, now it's more or less worthless, you're gonna just cleanse a bleed stack for like regen then it goes on cooldown???? it's just so random and awful now compared to it pre-nerf

null field is a fine skill, just not worth mimic to pad arcdps stats when no engagements are happening

and it's just a weaker well of corruption, that thing got a 2.1 freaking power coeffecient

do you even know what kind of power coefficients mesmer skills have?

i'll give you a hint;

it doesn't matter, because their skills won't actually land regardless, because they're all NPCs

and DEFINITELY not virtuoso's projectiles 

Well of Calamity is the only thing with a heavy coefficient and reliable damage;

BUT IT'S ONLY ON THE LAST TICK 

nobody is standing in a well for all 3 ticks

(actually?????? i just noticed calamity ticks weakness, i actually thought it was only on the last tick, so, that's actually really good, but again, it offers basically nothing else of value in the long run due to surrounding mesmer problems) 

  

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

In the same post you say boon chrono was too strong. You're at odds with your own opinion. I for one don't think it was too strong because of the skill involved, only highly skilled chronos could pull it off in a competitive setting

i said

the

old

chrono

as in, when signet of inspiration was broken

that gave everyone every single boon in the game that existed at the time

and at that time, there weren't many AoE boon strips 

and there was absolutely nothing "skilled" in that at all, dunno what that argument has to do with anything to begin with 

 

  

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Chrono has alacrity innately when you shatter, that differentiates it from core already.

 

chrono gives itself alacrity on shatter, not allies

it's completely worthless in a group setting

and again, alacrity is given elsewhere from other classes like renegades, and even mirage 

making it even more worthless

  

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Your only real point is shield 4 is defensive, well guess what you don't have to run shield if you don't want to. You lose on on unlimited boon rips from shield 5 though, so that's your choice.

also again, useless fluff

"unlimited boon rips"?

it only rips boons if it stuns

therefore, it will never rip stab

i don't care what people rip if it's not stab, you aren't catching anybody with that boon 

protection, resolution, fury, might, absolutely none of them matter

(they do.... but.... not as much as stab, i will 100% take a group with 100% stab uptime that can't be ripped, with no other boons, over a group that has 100% every other boon uptime that can't be ripped and absolutely no stab)

if someone is CC'd in damage, they will die, period

otherwise your group isn't localizing damage, which is their problem

i'm not saying the ability is necessarily "bad", neither is vicious expression

but again, neither of the 2 are going to be the reason you bring a mesmer, they're just there because they're the "least useless options", which is a pathetic excuse 

 

 

5 hours ago, Yoci.2481 said:

I think they made a lot of valid points that you seem to just brush away.

i'm honestly just angry, which i'm throwing information at them that they probably don't care about, despite it being the...... entire point... all that information is literally the reasoning behind it all, but, it's probably fine, because i think they're just misunderstanding 

 

but i'm not angry at them for not reading through it, just mostly the devs for allowing this scenario to happen, and the general idea that this is acceptable, when it's certainly not, i don't blame the individuals for not understanding, just the ones who are supposed to be actually fixing the issues, yet remain so ignorant 

 

i'm also ranting, so it's fair to say it's probably taking away a lot of the read-ability of it 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Alpha.1308

[Infusion.7149]

There's no change to SOI since the initial nerfs to sharing which is more of a raid change than a WvW one. The only difference is bountiful disillusionment. If you look at the boons output by bountiful disillusionment other than stability none are particularly noteworthy; stab is 1 stack (Inspiring Reinforcement for example is pulsing , True Nature on dwarf is 2 stacks, Mantra of Concentration is stacked stability, Dolyak Stance with LotP is stacked stability, and Defense Field is stacked stability). The rest is all due to other classes' changes: namely 2019 gyro rework. Quickness output by StM is no longer reliant on clones, you can get quickness out of it even with zero clones and there's nothing stopping you from instant shattering.

The only time you are limited by the boon rip depth is when there is stacked stability , as CC removes stab. For shield 5 it hits twice , once when it comes out from the mesmer and the second time on the way back.

You can run boon chrono (inspiration) from 2018 and the fundamental change is SOI doesn't share boons and bountiful disillusionment doesn't share boons. Running SOI still allows you to output aegis if you run inspiration via blurred inscriptions. If your major complaint is "wasted stats" that is your choice.

P.S. I find it funny you ask me if I know the power coefficients for mesmer. I've been active maintaining the competitive mode coefficients on the wiki for all classes since around POF.

[Alpha.1308]

6 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

There's no change to SOI since the initial nerfs to sharing

which is.... what i was talking about... yea...?

how you gonna take my argument, remove parts of it so that it's no longer my argument anymore, then basically tell me i'm wrong?

that's not how anything works 

the point was specifically SoI being strong when it could output every boon in the game 

(though, also, again, in a meta with much less aoe strips, since because power creep) 

  

 

6 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If you look at the boons output by bountiful disillusionment

there is no "output"

it's all selfish  

this is a moot argument in a group setting

 

anything outside of casual pugmanding, nobody is going to care about some selfish waste of a spot on any other class, hence why thieves and rangers barely exist and get laughed out of groups (outside of niche immob builds which are strong when used, but awful when their one-trick-pony concept fails) 

 

plus, like, what? you start listing off road for rev, an AoE skill, after talking about BD's selfish use, then go back to warrior's personal stance right after the AoE skill? 

none of this is relevant, the argument here is group content, not some solo hero build, or trying to come up with a 1:1 comparison between every single ability in the game, it's about their entire kit;

 

the argument is that, quite literally, overall, chronomancer just offers abysmal efficiency of their skill usage and stat distributions to justify a slot in a party, if they didn't have curtain/grav well, i question if anybody would use them at all, as they can 100% be swapped out in a group already as they are right now, because they aren't a "necessity", they're just fluff, meanwhile, other classes utility/damage/etc, absolutely cannot be exchanged as easily as they can, such as guardian stab/heals/cleanses/bubbles, or rev damage/might/fury/dwarf stance/road, or necro damage/wells/shades/shouts/cleave/strips, or scrappers healing/superspeed/quickness/cleansing  

 

6 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Quickness output by StM is no longer reliant on clones, you can get quickness out of it even with zero clones and there's nothing stopping you from instant shattering.

uhmmmmmmmm

the thing stopping people, is how that's completely a worthless joke 

if you wanna bring an entire character to a 10v10 or 20v20 just to sit there and clog up a slot by making an entire build around giving 4 seconds of quickness, you're going to be laughed out of the fight about as fast as a ranger or thief would be

 

scrapper/guardian poop that much out by just using their other abilities that also primarily do something else, it's literally just accidental quickness from them

 

6 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The only time you are limited by the boon rip depth is when there is stacked stability , as CC removes stab. For shield 5 it hits twice , once when it comes out from the mesmer and the second time on the way back.

what...????

you know what else removes stab?

removing stab

you know, directly, with a boon strip

 

and that doesn't have a stack limit for removal

shield 5 is not a reliable source of stab removal

 

it's a fair skill, but again, no where near strong enough to be justifiable for an entire e-spec

 

nobody says "oh no here comes a chrono wall"

 

i have never once heard a single soul say anything about a chrono wall incoming, or actually dying to one

not pugmanders, not blob fests, not in gvgs, not a peep, nothing

 

but grav well?

that things sound on its own is enough to smack you into making sure you ain't out of position, because you will die in one

the value of shield 5 is just laughable, it's there, i guess, but compared to other skills in this game, it's really not a big deal, and again, my point being, this is on the class with already questionable "extras"

(again, no complaints from grav well/curtain) 

 

 

6 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Running SOI still allows you to output aegis if you run inspiration via blurred inscriptions. If your major complaint is "wasted stats" that is your choice.

 

literally what

did you just call SoI viable enough to output aegis and assume it's actually a not-wasted-use for concentration on a build you linked that doesn't even say to use inspiration or the signet trait 

 

no, my "major complaint" is certainly not "just" the "wasted stats"

please read if you're going to make comments like that

i have outlined plenty of points that you just seem to keep ignoring, while you simultaneously bring up fake excuses for a quick fix like "hur dur i put concentration on my 2s aegis proc once every 20seconds" and honestly i just can't help you at this point if you refuse to read, if there's a misunderstanding, that's fine, but if your only takeaway from all my "walls of text" that you said, is "it just wastes stats", then that's a you problem, though i could be explaining stuff poorly, which is fair, and i do apologize if it's just misunderstandings, or if i'm coming off too hostile, but clearly i'm annoyed, not with you, but the devs

 

6 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

P.S. I find it funny you ask me if I know the power coefficients for mesmer. I've been active maintaining the competitive mode coefficients on the wiki for all classes since around POF.

 

congratulations, you should realize, then, that every single button a mesmer has that has over, what, like a .5 coefficient, are simply unreliable to actually utilize and get much value out of in a group of 10+ people 

 

Mind Stab and Split Surge being the most reliable skills they have that can actually hit decently hard, yet those alone are not gonna get you very far in a group setting 

(split surge... maybe... but that means mirage, which still brings nothing else to the table as a class besides damage, which other classes are already bringing with much more utility on top of it) 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Alpha.1308