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What if we introduced Core "Elite" specs?


Ashgar.3024

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Right now a lot of classes have 1 Trait lines that's mostly ignored by both the players and the devs, often because its just redundant thematically with an existing Elite spec but just worse.

 

The Tools line on Engi, the Acro line on Thief and the Retribution line on Rev etc.

 

What if these lines would get buffed/rework to function as competent Elite specs at the cost of not being matchable with the other Elites, ofc.

 

I understand the point of Core specs is to act like a bit like jack of all trades but once EOD is out there will be 27 Elite spec, my idea would push that number to 36, that's more than enough to justify giving each of them their own niche and identity.

 

Also a more focused design approach could prevent situations like right now with Scourge and Firebrand

Edited by Ashgar.3024
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Well, here's the thing - it already exist. For example core necro has an "elite" ranged shroud that reaper and scourge cannot use. Some has it on a smaller scale, such as the "elite" core engineer F5.

We can argue the strengths of skills all day long and how Anet could improve it for all core classes to make them just as unique as current elites but there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

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5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Well, here's the thing - it already exist. For example core necro has an "elite" ranged shroud that reaper and scourge cannot use. Some has it on a smaller scale, such as the "elite" core engineer F5.

We can argue the strengths of skills all day long and how Anet could improve it for all core classes to make them just as unique as current elites but there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

But i mean,  that's the thing, we're already halfway there with Core already have its own profession mechanic. Wouldn't be a full scale effort to simply buff/rework some traits and utility line (Gadgets for Engi for example) and make it into its own "thing".

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This comes up a lot and what people forget is that some of us are quite happy with the core traits and how they work as they are independently of the elites. What they lack in terms of impact on their own, they make up for in versatility and ability to work with each other and sometimes even with the elites. Changing them isn’t really necessary and defeats the idea of core and elites specs altogether

Edited by Randulf.7614
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I think the issue is that once you have access to elite specialization, it can feel 'wasted' not to take advantage of them. How many core builds come even close to meta?

I would personally welcome something that could boost the appeal of not selecting an elite specialization in your third slot. It could be another track akin to those we progress through when we first unlock an elite specialization. We could invest extra hero points in and that would provide additional benefits when one does not have an elite specialization equipped. Just enough to significantly lessen the gap between core and elites.

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That would be akin to making the core specs "better" than the elite ones, which is not as I understand the intention of them.  As for core not being "even close to meta", it depends on what content you're playing.  At least, that's how I see it.  There are some specs I wouldn't consider using for group content and some that I wouldn't use for solo play.  To me, that doesn't make a certain spec better or worse than another; rather, more niche for the content.

All specs should be able to complete all content.  That we as players have found some to be more "meta" is on us.  I don't see that as a design deficiency.

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10 minutes ago, Harfang.1507 said:

I think the issue is that once you have access to elite specialization, it can feel 'wasted' not to take advantage of them. How many core builds come even close to meta?

I would personally welcome something that could boost the appeal of not selecting an elite specialization in your third slot. It could be another track akin to those we progress through when we first unlock an elite specialization. We could invest extra hero points in and that would provide additional benefits when one does not have an elite specialization equipped. Just enough to significantly lessen the gap between core and elites.

In PvP a lot of Core builds are currently meta actually since they tend to end up being well balanced builds between offense and defense and general ease of use to get their damage out as they aren't hamstrung by some of the Elite "counterbalance" mechanics in the format.

 

Either way, my point is just that having dead trait lines kind of sucks. The "jack of all trades" design of the core spec worked pretty well back in the core game and even when the game had only 9 elite specs, but i feel if we could get more focused designs now, it could allow for more diversity in the game.

 

 

 

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There is plenty of diversity across all professions and core/elite specs.  It's just that many players want the "best possible" build for whatever content they play.  This leads to less diversity as players copy the same "best possible" build.   Once the next xpac hits, and players have had several months to run with it (and Anet to tweak it), we'll see that certain builds will rise to the top as the new meta and we'll still have the same diversity that we have now.

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24 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

There is plenty of diversity across all professions and core/elite specs.  It's just that many players want the "best possible" build for whatever content they play.  This leads to less diversity as players copy the same "best possible" build.   Once the next xpac hits, and players have had several months to run with it (and Anet to tweak it), we'll see that certain builds will rise to the top as the new meta and we'll still have the same diversity that we have now.

 

If they just add the new elites and don't look at other trait lines, meta won't shift much. Taking Engi as an example, Tools and to a lesser extent Inventions (i guess its useful to support WvW blobs) are still dead trait lines as DPS Mecanist just run the exact same Firearms/Explosives combo using the exact same traits Holo and Quickscrapper uses.

 

You can see that pattern for a lot of classes, particularly the ones with no dedicated meta support build and even then Specter doesn't give you a reason to run Acro on Thief.

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