End of Dragons Elite Specialization Updates

[Skyroar.2974]

I still don't understand why Vindicator's alliance stance couldn't simply be split into 2. This revenant-inside-a-revenant concept is a bit silly. Why have a F3 button to swap between (alliance's) legends, when you already have F1 for that? Just split Kurzick and Luxon sides into two different legends, and give the player the choice if they want to use them together or not...

Instead, Vindicator is going to suffer the elementalist's design bloat problem: where they'll have an entire extra skillset available that will likely be ignored in PvE. So why bother? If I'm playing DPS revenant, I likely won't use Ventari as one of my legends, so why should I be forced to have a support side with Alliance that is there-yet-not-there? Again: like an elementalist that rotates between fire-air (or fire-earth for condition builds) while ignoring the remaining attunements. It's bloat for the sake of bloat, IMO. Just split it into 2 and let players equip them only when they need them.

Outside of that, Greatsword is a very exciting weapon that any revenant player desperately wanted to gain access to, but most of its skillset still feels flat and bland. #5 is definitely an exciting skill, even more so with the QoL changes, but everything else is so generic/vanilla. It doesn't seems to have any interesting rotation/combo, IMO.

 

For Virtuoso, its defensive utilities remain underwhelming, and should get a look at. I also feel that the "blade tooltip" mechanic remains underdeveloped. Giving bleeding to sword and greatsword through traits is nice, but outside of condition builds, I feel there's a lot of untapped potential to make these two existing weapons play differently - which just doesn't happens when all the "blade tooltip" mechanic offers for power builds is extra vulnerability, a very passive condition. Also, dagger #2 should create two blades: one if it hits any target the first time, the other if it hits again when it gets back to you (unless it already does that and I missed it).

Edited November 25, 2021 by Skyroar.2974

[Smoosh.2718]

Bladesworn

Pistol still on offhand? how have they not fixed this game breaking bug for Bladesworn yet? It made the class feel really horrible to play with this bug, I really hope they get this sorted for the release of EoD.

[Skyroar.2974]

For Catalyst, I think additional active defenses won't be enough enough: the spec simply needs a good passive defense upfront. Something like a simple +vitality/toughness in a minor trait. One that doesn't needs to be stacked.

[GuriGashi.5617]

Sounds like Willbender is on a good way. 3 changes would round up the elite spec perfectly.

 

1 - please make Lethal Tempo last longer. Huge issue in the first beta was that Lethal Tempo lasted far too little to get value out of it or its corresponding grandmaster trait Tyrant‘s Momentum

 

2 - the trait Righteous Sprint should grant 3 seconds of Superspeed instead of 5 seconds Swiftness on Virtue cast. Willbender is supposed to be the Guardian mobility spec and it would be a great opportunity to introduce superspeed to the profession. It would also certainly help to chase targets and get hits to trigger virtues even in competetive game modes and not just PvE

 

3 - please increase velocity and range of the stunbreak utility Roiling Light. It had a big part in the spec feeling clunky in the first beta

Edited November 25, 2021 by GuriGashi.5617

[Every day pon.5386]

On 11/23/2021 at 9:45 AM, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

Dragon Slash's maximum damage has been reduced appropriately. As a result of it being faster to charge,

Unfortunately in WvW Dragon Slash damage was already low, the full Dragon Slash charge time was not the difficult issue, but the effectiveness of the damage! "Fierce as Fire" will be required to pull major weight & divide barriers like the profession's image

I also enjoyed the sweet previous anime speeds, but overall still a fun Bladesworn designs & RIP to the leveled Lush Forest, it was what made the profession stellar 

[Cronos.6532]

Please make it so thieves give quickness instead of alacrity! Alacrity isn't really useful for thieves; I'm starting to not want to play the specialization!

[zaery.6478]

Guardian main here: Am I reading correctly that you're putting alac on a passive? Like an effect that triggers without pressing buttons? Willbenders will be able to keep up permanent alacrity while afk? What? I genuinely can't think of a good way to respond without profanity. 

[RyuDragnier.9476]

20 minutes ago, Cronos.6532 said:

Please make it so thieves give quickness instead of alacrity! Alacrity isn't really useful for thieves; I'm starting to not want to play the specialization!

Alacrity effects utility skill and Shroud cooldowns, so it IS useful. It's just not useful for initiative purposes.

[Shockwave.1230]

The dragon slash change to lower the damage and decrease the charge time is disappointing. Can you look into separating 3 different charge rates into the trait line selection. The old high charge time and high damage as one option, the new medium charge rate as an option, and then the fast rate is already a trait I believe.

 

Perhaps look into blind immunity and weakness immunity as baseline into dragonslash.  Perhaps that's too much for the fast charge option though.

 

I really enjoyed the commitment of charging for a long period of time for a hit that goes over 6 digits in my solo open world play.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

I am disappointed in the mechanist changes making the stupid mace now mandatory if you want the full dps now. Oh well, it was nice knowing you as you were since I have no interest now in it because I am forced to use that ugly weapon like I feared.

[Caitmonster.9036]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:45 PM, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

We are aware of specific mechanics in certain content (such as Vale Guardian's green circles) that are affecting pets and are treating these as individual bugs in those encounters to fix in future updates. We do not intend for any current encounter mechanic to disproportionately impact your ability to use pets.

I mean, there's a fix for that. It's called "doing the mechanic".

Skipping green circles is supposed to be punishing. If you don't want your necro minions / mechs / ranger critters / spirits dying, maybe... don't skip greens?

Please don't change this, Anet. You'd be making raid mechanics even easier to faceroll than they currently are.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Caitmonster.9036

[Jokuc.3478]

Most of these changes seem great. The change to elixirs giving you blight on Harbinger got me excited. I am not happy to hear that

The other thing I don't like is the change to Bladesword charge-up time. The fun thing about it was to stay put in a risky way with a huge pay-off. I do think giving it stability is good, but reducing the charge time just makes it play more like a generic greatsword class which I'm not too excited about to be honest.

I am actually not super happy that they are buffing condi damage on Virtuoso. Mirage is already the go-to condi spec for Mesmer, and with all the support that Chrono have I feel like having a spec that performs better as power would be healthy. Condi builds are super busted in the game right now so if condi Virtuoso performs similarly to power Virtuoso there will be little to no reason to even play the latter.

Same thing with Willbender, I think it was perfectly fine to make it a power only spec. Making condi strong on it too will only make power builds more irrelevant. Willbender can give alac to allies with the trait combo now, I really really don't like this. I feel like alac should be more of a mesmer exclusive boon. I don't like that it's becoming something more and more classes can access. I like the idea of more trait interactions, but I don't like the idea of alac on guard to begin with. If you want fast-paced skill usage just nerf the skills and lower the cooldowns. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Jokuc.3478

[Opopanax.1803]

Warrior E-spec is a mess.  No weapon swap and only an OH melee pistol.  

I get that the blade thing isnt going to change, but this spec adds nothing to warrior's quiver.  

 

Pistol needs to be both MH and OH and RANGED

[Matoro.9708]

My feedback is for the Mechanist:

I think these are all great changes and I appreciate the work that went into them.

BUT (you know this was coming):

It simply doesn't synergize enough with core engi. I really only need to say one word, and it'll probably get my post blacklisted: turrets.

[LucianDK.8615]

1 hour ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

I am disappointed in the mechanist changes making the stupid mace now mandatory if you want the full dps now. Oh well, it was nice knowing you as you were since I have no interest now in it because I am forced to use that ugly weapon like I feared.

It was kind of useless before. Now it gives mace an identity as a 'control rod'.      But a nice compromise could be to unlock full weaponswap for mechanists due to the other limitations on the spec.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

4 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

It would also allow for more interesting power ranged builds (dual pistols & rifle), making the warrior something different than just "melee dps focus" which we already have.

I didn't realize I wanted this until I read it! Having the 3 weapon sets (Sheath/Unsheath and Weapon Swaps can all share the same CD) able being able to go full Gun-Fu-Weebo would be incredible! 

[Aens.2713]

Good changes for the most part, but some of them still need more changes, we'll give feedback after next beta.

[Avatara.1042]

HAMMER 3 FOR CATALYST STILL CRIPPLES THE SPEC.

No one wants to be forced to swap Attunements every 3-4 seconds to keep those orbs spinning to not lose ~30% of our damage.  Also, why bother making half the attacks 600 range when you are forced to melee for the orbs?

Also I hope the cooldown on that Elite was reduced substantially.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Avatara.1042

[hgkmaxymus.9321]

5 hours ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

The default is F6/F7, but you can change it in the control Options, so it's not a massive deal. Once you change it, that pretty much fixes the problem (if the changes are to be believed) 

But why not use the default ones for the normal ranger pet commands? (F1/F3) 

Or is F6/F7 the untamed pet skills? 

[DragoTheWise.7256]

In regards to the Mechanist, I have a few thoughts.

The Good

I want to start by thanking you into looking at some of the clunkyness of the skills/animations and cleaning them up. Buffing mace is a welcome change as well as I thought it was a bit lacking after thinking about over the past month. Increasing ranges on the support abilities is nice. The regen buff is good too as it allows a push into even better support.

I do like the buffs to signets as they needed to be more competitive as a choice.

Looks like we got some condi buffs and that is always welcomed.

The CD reduction for a dead Mech is welcomed, but hope it will be reduced further.

Concerns

I have concerns in a few spots with these changes. The Mech is getting nerfed without much to buff to the engineer to compensate. As stated, there was a concern that the Mech was too much as part of the engi's power/abilities, but I didn't see much changes to transfer that power to the engi. The changes to signets seem to have been part of this but the passives also work on the Mech, so that really wasn't a "transfer" to the engi. And the signet change doesn't help if an engi decides not to use them. Really the only thing that was increased for the engi only was mace which may not really be enough to balance that true transfer of power and kinda pigeon holes it to that one weapon.

Speaking of signets, I would have thought it would be a better fit to have the healing signet, Rectifier Signet, to have the passive for sharing boons. Putting it on Shift Signet is a bit odd and takes up a precious utility slot. This is suppose to buff the mech for group content, but we are giving up a precious utility slot just for boons to transfer. The rest of Shift Signet doesn't really fit with group content, at least from a PvE perspective, so it is an odd choice imo. At least with healing signet, it is in that same healing/boon category. A support build wouldn't need to worry about it, but a condi build would be sacrificing a lot just to ensure boons were being transferred over. I am unsure if full consistent boons with a signet not geared for group content is a good tradeoff with a loss of extra condi damage.

I got a little confused with the precision change and in the same thought the change with "Mech Frame: Variable Mass Distributor" (VMD).

• Precision Changes: Having 0 being inherited by the Mech from the Engi without VMD feels like to get any precision for the mech one is forced into that trait. At least previously, you were able to have some precision transferred and would more than likely have fury to boost it up even more. 
• VMD: The power inheritance missing from this is confusing for me. Sure Precision and Ferocity are at 100% inheritance but I'm unsure how being able to "crit cap" is gonna help here. Crit capping would be difficult since %/trait bonuses don't transfer to the Mech (High Caliber, Hematic Focus, sigil of accuracy, etc.). An engi would need to go in hard with precision stats to at least get close enough for fury to do the rest to crit cap the Mech and I don't think that is flexible.

The slight nerf on alacrity was a little odd since it is only 5 man and we had the mace bug on the previous beta to not really see its full potential.

I didn't see anything about medkit and how it is locked out of its self-heal. It would be good to hear if we are getting it back in some other form as the mechanist or we are just fully locked out of our tool-belt forever when using this spec... a concern I posted in the beta week 3 thread for the mechanist.

Final thoughts

I'll be able to test the Mechanist for beta weekend 4 and be able to give my thoughts, so I'll reserve final judgement then. I do believe there is a push/pull between what should hold the power, the Engi or the Mech. I know folks felt like the Mech held too much of the power, but in order for it to be transferred to the engi more traits would need to affect the engi on top of making some updates/reworks to core engi. The latter is for sure difficult since it will also affect holosmith and scrapper play. I think that the Mech should just be the one that holds most of the power. Just make it the power house that it is supposed to be while allowing some options for the engi when the mech dies/on CD. Nerfing the Mech just hurts the Mechanist more especially without additional power transferred to the engi.

At least from the initial thoughts, support and condi should still be pretty good choices for the Mechanist. I feel that power is just not worth the focus/option considering the changes that were made.

Edited November 25, 2021 by DragoTheWise.7256
word change

[Shaman.2034]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:45 PM, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

Full List of Changes to Virtuoso:

Skill and Trait Adjustments:

Bladesongs:

• Bladesong Harmony: Damage coefficient per blade reduced from 0.8 to 0.7 in PvE only.
• Bladesong Dissonance: Damage coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 1 in PvE only.
• Bladeturn Requiem: Damage coefficient reduced from 0.3 to 0.2 in PvE only. Base block duration set to 2s. 

Dagger:

• Flying Cutter: Damage coefficient per hit reduced from 0.65 to 0.5 in PvE only.
• Bladecall: Damage coefficient per hit reduced from 0.6 to 0.5 in PvE only.

Utility Skills:

• Thousand Cuts: Recharge reduced from 75s to 60s in PvE only. This skill is now unblockable. Can now be aimed in any direction while moving. This skill is now cast instantly. Number of hits increased from 6 over 3s to 10 over 5s. Damage coefficient per hit reduced from 2 to 0.5 in PvE, and from 1 to 0.5 in PvP and WvW.
• Rain of Swords: Damage coefficient per hit reduced from 1 to 0.8 in PvE only.

This is not the way to nerf Virtuoso's damage... Mental Focus is right there. 10% damage for free. It needed to be replaced by a trait that does something more interesting. That would have been the way to nerf Virtuoso's DPS. These power coefficient nerfs now force you to take Mental Focus in PvE and stand in close range, where at least before, your power coefficients were high enough that you could take another adept trait if you wanted to, especially if you wanted to play Virtuoso at long range.

[Aedil.1296]

First of all Congrats to Guardians for being the first class to cover might, stability, quickness, healing, alacrity, power, condi, tanking, aegis, etc. etc.

Regarding my dear Ele main well, I appreciate the shy intent to make it a bit better, but still doesn't resolve the clunkyness I'm afraid and the lack of fantasy on the Catalyst mechanics in general. I would have loved catalyst hammer to be a fully ranged weapon and a bigger buff to utilities to be independant from jade sphere fields completely (if I'm Ele forced to be melee I would like to run wild on the battlefield as my life depends on it not being forced to stay in a tiny aoe). The elite as well i did expected something more interesting that cooldown reduction to be honest. Also I appreciate the changes to hammer 3, but I would have it to work more like revenant Jalis hammers were maybe also heals a bit and stay with us more during the battle? 

Actually thinking about it having energy to work like with revenant would be cool for the hammer 3 where the more orbs we have the more energy it drains till we shoot the orbs? I would remove energy cost from jade sphere completely as well tbh. 

Thank you for listening to our feedback for some of the classes at least. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Aedil.1296

[mortrialus.3062]

Some of the Virtuoso changes are ok but it doesn't address the issues of the spec in any meaningful way.

Unblockable bladesongs on dodge or block sounds nice but Virtuoso is a ranged damage dealer and should be avoiding getting targeted at all in the first place.  The quickness on dodge and block had the same problem as well, by the time you're done dodge rolling half the quickness is gone already while stuff like Soulbeast and Power Herald have it built in ways that'll naturally activate when they go on the offensive.  Like if they're attacking you so they trigger your block you probably don't need unblockable

 And if they are blocking, they aren't going to trigger your own block to unblockably punish them.  You'll never get the unblockable bladesong when you need it.  Only when you don't need it. It's dumb on it's face.

 

It's damage is undertuned in PvP.  It's projectiles are too slow to hit moving targets, it has no way to keep targets away, no answer for when they do get in close.  It has no answer for conditions, the F3 and F4 are extremely bad straight downgrades to core with no upside, it has no answer for the downstate as it can't distortion stomp, has no stability access, and it's pressure isn't high enough to cleave a body if someone is rezzing the way a herald, dh, or reaper can.

 

Extremely disappointed in the changes or lack thereof. No one in the feedback was even talking about blade generation being a problem.

Edited November 25, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Arannya.8324]

Harbinger changes make no sense. The nerf in mobility make it on par with reaper but with less sustain - yes, reaper has 1 leap but can perma chill, there's nothing stopping enemies from chasing or kitting you on HB.  The heal nerf just obliterates sustain and the trade offs make little to no sense - even with the added bonuses I doubt many people will pick elixirs over core utilities. The heal trait is seen as passive but for me it was an interesting balance game of trading off blight for regen and the amount of time you spent in shroud was heavily influenced by that. 

[Gorem.8104]

Sweet, Untamed can switch stances every second and all weapons get an unleashed move, hopefully its ranged so it works for all weapons, would be funny to melee attack with a bow.

Was hoping Flow would stay out of combat for Bladesworn in this which it didn't get, otherwise interesting changes with Flow Stabilizer, which I had used, being changed to something I won't use at all. Stab > some extra Fury which you don't even need if you trait for 100% crit. Really gonna depend on how many stacks of Stab they gave you when using Trigger, but now you don't have access to it outside of Trigger.

Ok but seriously why was Flow Stab, nerfed so hard and basically removed from play? Oh great. And please let flow stay out of combat. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Gorem.8104