End of Dragons Elite Specialization Updates

[Duke Blackrose.4981]

Thank you very much for all of this. I'm delighted with your Vindicator changes in particular.

[Swizzle.7982]

Quote

We've removed the two 'auto' skills the Mech would cast on its own, Rocket Punch and Jade Siphon, as Mech Command skills would queue behind them and be delayed.
Rocket Punch is now activated when you use Mace 3 (Prototype Rocket Fist)

 

Doesn't this punish Mechanist players who don't use a mace, effectively removing access to Rocket Punch entirely? One of the changes to the Untamed was made specifically because it felt punishing to use other weapons but how is this any different? I'd much rather have the Mech still use skills on it's own and simply have my commands interrupt them than be forced into using a specific weapon. 

[RetributionZero.1347]

I feel like the issues with Virtuoso were completely disregarded, as most of them were not even addressed in this post (or the livestream). The only issues addressed were fixed in half-measures.

Shatters still require target-facing, still have both a cast time and a travel time. This creates very clunky gameplay, not to mention make the shatters VERY bad in both PvP and WvW. On top of being able to be easily interrupted, they are able to be reflected as well as projectile hate means they are 100% useless in competitive game modes.

 

Speaking of projectile hate, all of the Virtuoso abilities are projectiles, so a well placed reflect completely nullifies the entire kit (except the Ultimate skill, which the damage is incredibly nerfed now).

 

Next up, for some reason ANET seems to want to make condi Virtuoso a thing. We have Condi Mirage, which means that Virtuoso unless it out-damages Mirage (which it wont) will never be played in this capacity. And with the power coefficients getting nerfed across the board, it seems that they want to push this spec into Condi DPS (which is problematic, given it has an enhanced fury trait. So you're wasting that if you're playing condi).

 

Virtuoso is useless in PvP, useless in WvW, and now as a low-mobility low-defensiveness (yeah, getting rid of the ability to distort on shatters because you cant shatter without blades, not to mention them not being instant-cast) spec with nerfed damage, will be pretty useless in PvE as well. Can we please stop ignoring the major issues, and please decide what this class wants to be? If it's going to be condi DPS, delete the power tree and give more options to apply conditions. If it's going to be power, delete the condi tree and give some options with unblockable and ability-combination use. As it stands, virtuoso is not only the worst mesmer spec, but it's unfun as well.

[Kheron.9062]

Hi! I love the changes I am reading on Vindicator, though I have one question regarding the GS3 (I think it was 3?) dash range. If I remember correctly the tooltip listed a 900 range, though using TacO range markers it only moved you ~400 units. I don't see this addressed as a bug or under the GS weapon skills section.

Do we get to go the full 900? Or was the tooltip changed to reflect the distance it was moving us? What is happening with that?

Please have it be the 900 unit range that was listed, because it felt like we could cover just as much ground just as quickly by simply walking. I am also a sucker for target-less moves, so I just really want it to be usable for leaping between packs of mobs without mounting up, or in areas we can't mount.

I look forward to trying Vindicator out again!

[Zekent.3652]

Anything about gunsaber stow?

[Zodryn.4216]

For Specter I thought Dawn's Repose needed MORE range not less. Why only 450 range?? It already wasn't worth it as a dash compared to just running.

 

Also Consume Shadows is not useable as an emergency heal anymore if you need to wait multiple seconds for it to be effective which is a giant nerf. It better be worth waiting 5s. I am extremely skeptical of this change.

 

And is it intended that siphon on allies doesn't proc any steal traits? So many complained about it but there's no mention of a fix.

[Milosz.5938]

Some changes... but only some for Catalyst. This is soo parody spec that need much more then 'some'.

Catalyst can do nothing against any range enemy... We do not have your cheats to be immortal presence in melee combat. 

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

52 minutes ago, Lucinellia.9247 said:

 

It is a massive shame that this is the solution you opted for from the feedback that was provided with respect to support Specter.

 

Without quickness, PvE support Specter has no real use because the 10 person alacrity provided by Renegade and Mirage in 10 person content is too strong and Renegade remains far, far too useful in Fractals.

 

Support Specter needed to offer both quickness and alacrity in order to see a degree of play in either of these game modes because it does not provide sufficient other boons. This is a hugely disappointing change that really feels like you didn't bother to consider the changes of Specter in relation to what other elite specs can offer.

 

Worryingly, you've also not addressed the concerns people have expressed with single targeting of allies at all. Absolutely no mention of UI changes or such or even an acknowledgement that this is the most awkward part of support Specter. Couching the changes in the language of 2v2 gameplay is also very odd - this is an off-season gameplay mode in one area of the game. How does this single target healing supposedly work now in raids or Fractals? A Specter is still going to be wanting to target allies and apply Endless Night due to the strength relative to other (single target) heal skills.

 

If you want builds such as Willbender, Specter and Mechanist to see any play with alacrity sharing, you need to remove 10 person alacrity from both Mirage and Renegade if Willbender, Specter and Mechanist cannot also provide quickness, as per current Chronomancer (which already doesn't see much play as alacrity and quickness because 10 person alacrity is that good) .

I 100% agree. Some of the changes for specter make me disappointed as well.

Edited November 24, 2021 by ZeroTheRuler.7415

[Burial.1958]

Disappointing with the specter changes. The single target clunky mess still stays and the Spec overall makes no sense at all when u have other classes which are far better in the support job.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Reading the virtuoso changes was a legit bruh moment. What the actual kitten, my men, what the actual kitten indeed.

For the love of god, just remove the facing requirement on healing skill. I know making it good by now is out of reach, but fix this one thing I beg you.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Danikat.8537]

I'm looking forward to trying the updated untamed. In spite of the issues I like the spec, I think it's the closest we've had to what I want from a ranger elite but it was frustrating and kind of confusing (it took me a long time to understand what the unleased mechanic did, because I wasn't using a hammer). The new version sounds like it's going to be much better, especially the increased (restored) control over the pet.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Danikat.8537

[HotDelirium.7984]

2 hours ago, Hobu.8751 said:

Was hoping for greater changes around the virtuoso being projectile locked (unusable in WvW) with no real damage payoff to compensate for it. It still falls well below DH, necro, and herald as a group DPS class and there's no additional utility outside of boon strips comparable to chrono. 

Projectiles need to be addressed or damage needs to go way up. 

-There needs to be a trait that their projectiles either can't be reflected or blocked and if they are they still do their damage and conditions on the target (or become an AOE at the barrier point).

OR some more mechanics involving blades (maybe more aegis) or a passive buff for every stacked blade. Gota make em more interesting!

Edited November 25, 2021 by HotDelirium.7984

[Zenith.7301]

Did guardian really need to have every single role covered by all of its specs?

 

It has undisputed monopoly on aegis and stability and group Resolution uptime. It's already the best PvE healer once you get a single druid for the spirits.

 

It was the strongest quickness provider with utility on top of good DPS. DPS Firebrand is also top tier.

 

And then you went and gave it access to the group alacrity role.

[Malkarne.8167]

"Endless Night: The number of targets this ability affects has been reduced from 3 to 1."

 

Reducing the number of targets from 3 to 1 on Endless Night is devastatingly bad. You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater by changing it like that. I played a ton of Specter during the beta and even made a big post on it in this thread, so suffice to say I had a good amount of experience with the spec. A lot of the enjoyment with Scepter came from lining up that beam to splash on targets, both friendly and enemies. It played beautifully with Specter's emphasis on shadowstepping and positioning, and moving around to land cleave like that felt very fun and unique.

 

Please, please revert that change. I'm begging you. Maybe make it so only the target gets the Quickness/Slow but the two cleave targets only get barrier/torment with damage? At least then you'd still be able to provide barrier and have some cleave and it would also resolve your concerns about Specter providing too much Quickness to a group along with Alacrity. Just don't burn the whole functionality of Endless Night to the ground. 😞

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Malkarne.8167

[HotDelirium.7984]

3 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

Disappointing with the specter changes. The single target clunky mess still stays and the Spec overall makes no sense at all when u have other classes which are far better in the support job.

Specter needs to be less single target SPAM boons and more of single target anchor point who will get some boons and then spam boons to their nearby allies as their focal point. That target can go far away also so when we resume dpsing our extra "shadow magic mechanics" get transferred as an added bonus. Sage ff14 realness.

[UNOwen.7132]

I have to say, the changes on Bladesworn and Mechanist feel like a swing and a miss to me.

 

Bladesworn: Making the movement skills slower feels unjustified. Moving fast was fun, and it was what made those skills powerful, yet it's being removed despite them not being overpowered? Reach also seemingly didnt get any major buff to its speed or width, which seems to me means it will still miss on a jumping on running enemy. Likewise with Boost, the jumping over the hitbox thing is not addressed. Additionally, the common complaing of Gunsaber itself being a bit lackluster in PvP, in particular when it came to the attack ranges, were left completely unaddressed. The Dragon Trigger change is nice, but Dragon Trigger was not the classes main issue in PvP.

 

Mechanist: The 2 main complaints were the fact that toolbelt skills were not available at all, and that the traits did not affect the engineer, meaning without a mech you were too weakened. Neither of these were addressed. Likewise the fact that the mech customisation was extremely limited due to the traits being too tied to their respective stats was unaddressed, as was the fact that some of the mechs active skills were really underpowered in PvP (like core reactor shot). The removal of power inheritance from the mech feels reasonable, but now I worry that while the mechs damage was significantly lower as it should've been, the engineer has not been compensated for it at all, and the class as a whole might be woefully weak now.

[Silesium.5623]

As rev main want to see vendictior after changes but still hoping for more. See some staff was not touched that people complained about and they focus on biger problems for now. Also people need remb that classes gone get lots of nerf in future when people come up with some OP builds that braking game.

[Atille.5047]

The elixir changes for Harbinger are a step in the right direction, but ultimately boring trait choices + pistol being a copy paste of Engineer's with no cool animations to show for it still make it just a better core necro. Hopefully you'll do more in character animation department so we don't literally use Daredevil's Vault on shroud 4 while holding an invisible staff. 

[Lucinellia.9247]

12 minutes ago, Malkarne.8167 said:

"Endless Night: The number of targets this ability affects has been reduced from 3 to 1."

 

Reducing the number of targets from 3 to 1 on Endless Night is devastatingly bad. You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater by changing it like that. I played a ton of Specter during the beta and even made a big post on it in this thread, so suffice to say I had a good amount of experience with the spec. A lot of the enjoyment with Scepter came from lining up that beam to splash on targets, both friendly and enemies. It played beautifully with Specter's emphasis on shadowstepping and positioning, and moving around to land cleave like that felt very fun and unique.

 

Please, please revert that change. I'm begging you. Maybe make it so only the target gets the Quickness/Slow but the two cleave targets only get barrier/torment with damage? At least then you'd still be able to provide barrier and have some cleave and it would also resolve your concerns about Specter providing too much Quickness to a group along with Alacrity. Just don't burn the whole functionality of Endless Night to the ground. 😞

 

 

 

The other great irony is that you can still cycle Endless Night fully over 4 targets in a sub group at 100% boon duration to provide quickness with the new changes. If it is now simply a single target ability that goes to the person you select, you just click through each person in your sub group one by one casting Measured Shot then Endless Night and filling with Wells. Now you've covered Alacrity and Quickness and the gameplay still feels incredibly unfun and not supported by the UI.

 

It is nice that TBC Restoration Druid raiding without addons has been independently created, but there is a reason that design is now pretty antiquated. It isn't fun to play and it is even less fun to play with a game where the UI does not support it in the slightest and encounters are not designed with people clicking raid frames and party members in mind.

 

It really seems like the feedback has not been understood and the state of the game not fully considered (certainly for PvE at least) when implementing the Specter changes. Specter has a lot of promise, but it is going to end up messy and underplayed like Deadeye and Scrapper are/were if this direction is maintained.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Lucinellia.9247

[Wintermute.5408]

I really like the harbinger changes. Adding more functionality to blight and removing autoregen specifically sound really good.

Condi damage nerf was expected. Power damage still looks dead.

I feel like elixirs still are an absolute garbage of utility. While making them throwable and adding exceed functionality are absolutely steps in the right direction, they still don't look like they do much.

Anyway, yay for more interactive necro specs.

[Jijimuge.4675]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:45 PM, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

• Dragon Slash - Boost: Coefficient on max charge reduced from 24.8 to 10.2 in PvE only.
• Dragon Slash - Boost: This skill is now considered a movement skill.
• Dragon Slash - Boost: Reduced the movement speed of this skill by 40%. Distance traveled remains the same.
• Dragon Slash - Reach: Coefficient on max charge reduced from 39.6 to 16.3 in PvE only.

Have the coefficients for Reach and Boost been swapped?  I'm assuming/hoping this is just a typo in the notes?

In the first beta, the damage order was as follows - Force>Boost>Reach, but the above indicates otherwise.

[Kodama.6453]

I noticed that it isn't acknowledged in any way that mechanist is not functioning under water at all... does that mean it will be ignored and we are forced to always switch elite specs if we want to do under water content like the under water fractal? Would be great to know if you are at least considering to make the mech usable under water.

[Wintermute.5408]

As for specter, it's a shame the problems of single ally targeting weren't adressed. I know asking for Ui redisign because of 1 espec is stupid, but boy does specter need it. I still hope for at least some crutches to ease the pain. Maybe F3-F7 skills to memorize and target members of subgroup?

Edited November 24, 2021 by Wintermute.5408

[dou.7083]

2 things about Virtuoso

 

1. The issue with the projectile block needs to be resolved 
2. People crying about the condi variation and relying on the fact that Mirage is a "condi spec" need to be hard forced into queues with all the power Mirages in PvP and WvW until they forget that Virtuoso exists and start crying about the sword ambush instead, so that we can redirect useless feedback somewhere else until the release

[Rin.1046]

I am a little concerned there was no mention of the issue of Spectre skill 3 not working in action cam. As a player who pretty much exclusively plays in this mode, Scepter will be a right pain in the back end to use if this is not fixed, and will definitely put me off playing sceptre.

 

I am also a little sad that the Specter's utility skills were not mentioned. No mention that none of them are usable underwater!, or that the cast times are too slow and clunky.

 

Not sure I agree with the Consuming Shadows change. I can understand the need to reduce the power of Consuming Shadows, so it doesn't overshadow the Shroud skills, but I feel the changes are too heavy handed. Now, instead of it granting 100% shadow force as healing/barrier, it will only grant 50% and only after being in shroud for 5 seconds. So not only do we have to wait for our burst heal, losing force while we do so and potentially losing more from taking damage, but the cost of losing what force remains is less impactful. Either make us wait or reduce the numbers. Doing both seems excessive.
 

Regarding Endless Night, you reduced the number of targets to 1, which is a fun killing change, but you also reduced the duration of slow and quickness as well?! Again, another change that seems unnecessarily heavy handed to me.

 

At least there are some good bug fixes and Dawn's Repose is now a leap instead of a dash. That is a good change, even though it too seems to have been hit with the nerf bat. But at least I can kind of see the reason for the nerfs, as it will now be easier to hit with it. Not sure I agree with reducing both the radius and the fear duration though. One or the other would be tolerable, but not both.

Overall, I am a little disappointed with these changes to Specter, compared to some of the great changes to the other elite specs. I hope to see some better changes after beta 4.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Rin.1046