End of Dragons Elite Specialization Updates

[X T D.6458]

Looking forward to trying out the specs with all these new changes. Not sure if I like harbinger elixers being ground targeted though.

[Martzi.7341]

I'm proud of the  community for the useable feedbacks, and grateful for the devs to listening to them.
The changes so far seems great, I'm hyped to test the Vindicator, the Harbinger and the Untamed changes.
One little feedback and idea: The change on the Unleash visual effect is great, and maybe could be great to do the same /something similar with the Soulbeast visual effect. It's a bit hard to create a dark/edgy style while merged and having a vivid spiritual effect on the character.

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Elbritil.3817

[Morde.3158]

lets here less mobility for harbinger and less healing and still shroud is 10seconds. I wonder how other professions will just run me down me down this expan for this reason I don't play scourge. Seems like I will be playing Core/Reaper for the next few years or maybe not.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Morde.3158

[ReaverKane.7598]

No change to underwater mechanist? It feels really useless when playing underwater. I doubt the changes that alleviate the pet power will change this.

I think the changes to bladesworn seem to be good to "normalize" its gameplay, but i'd like to see a trait that leans into the original big risk huge reward play-style. Giving people that want skill-based play something to sink your teeth in, since in reality the blinks you have while sheathed can be used to minimize the losses.

Untamed pet unleashed skills should have skill sets that match their Archetypes, current pet Unleashed skills lean a bit to the power side, which is limiting to builds.

[Darnok Iksnibiks.9426]

I'm slightly disappointing that Spectre, the class that suits my fantasty of shadow mage the most, is seemingly dedicated to work in group content. Half of the skills and all of traits need other players . And I'm stereotypical lone wolf... Not everyone can be pleased ;)

 

It would be fun if new mechanic/theme, Shroud, would be pushed further to accent its duality. Same as skills it is granting, and Siphon, traits could also be dual purpose (separate bonus to both offensive and support aspects) 

 

Good changes overall, and I will be more than happy to test in next beta round :)

[anna.5487]

To me, it seems like Harbinger was nerfed too much, and became even more complicated to play.

For Virtuoso, Willbender, Catalyst, there is not enough to make them preferable to other specializations.

Specter is too complicated as it is, targeting and lack of macros makes it very hard to play.

The rest are really improved.

[Abyss.5986]

Please im begging i have been waiting for support thief so long...... and these changes make me really sad especially since you did NOTHING to adress the extreme action cam buggs that break the spec like siphon and scepter / dagger 3   + not being able to select most players in combat scenarios. Second single target heal is just a bad idea im sorry  even if it would be extremely op since most aoe healers can already overheal 5-10 players and provide way more Boons (tempest druid and the almighty Firebrand). And forcing that playstyle will just make the spec not beeing used. I have to say at the moment i feel cheated out of a elite spec....and for a player with 4000+ hours on that class alone i am very let down. And as a customer i have to say i will get a refund if these changes aren't addressed.

 

Also you should really think over how you approach this since 90% of responses here Are negative.

And not crybabyes since they give a lot of concrete suggestions how to fix a lot of these problems. 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by elbalzo.7830

[SkyCake.4216]

Really happy to see the changes! I think a lot of people were worried we either wouldn't see changes, or wouldn't see bigger changes needed. While not all the changes are exciting to me, just that they're happening is a good sign. 

These are my quick thoughts. 

- Harbinger traits still relatively boring. In comparison, I think Reaper has wonderful traits. They're creative and fill an idea/role without being so direct, such as Deathly Chill. I would really like if Harbinger traits could be more interesting than "do more [damage] with Blight." I'm worried about the Life Force change.

- I'm not convinced this will fix Catalyst's "frontline" potential. I also worry about the e-spec being held back by its energy resource still. Auras themselves need a look at before trying to force them to be so important to Catalyst. The 5 second duration on fields, the low duration on augments, the low duration on Hammer 3, low duration on auras. This spec is going to feel like you're always in a rush to do something because whatever affect you have going on doesn't last long at all. Elementalist already has a frantic e-spec, I'm not sure why Catalyst also has to be so frantic. 

- I'm sad that the Specter nerfs came without any of the QoLs or fixes people have been asking for. I'm actually one of the weirdos that enjoy the single-target healing aspect of it. I'm disappointed that Wells weren't touched because I believe they could use some tuning. I'm curious about the Shroud changes in-game. But, the Shroud already felt really lackluster and relatively boring for a Thief. I still feel like it needs more than what it got. 

- Mace is being forced onto Mechanist and I don't think that's a good idea. Rocket Punch needs to be accessible to Pistol and Rifle as well. 

- I don't really want to talk about Virtuoso too much because I really only have negative things to say about it and it makes me sad as someone that has spent well over a thousand hours on Mesmer. But, Anet didn't listen to the feedback at all. 

 

Thank for the post! 

[ledernierrempart.6871]

it seems they don't want to change any of the core design of each spec.

applying band-aids instead.

 

mechanist underwater hasn't been addressed.

f6, f7 are too far away from the hand.

catalyst still lack leap/blast finisher. how do you generate aura?

[Squigglez.1236]

It's good to see you're willing to change actual mechanics and rework skills instead of just trying to balance numbers.

Harbinger:

I like the harbinger elixers changes but since I don't think they can maintain anything except quickness it may not be chosen much for support and if the nerfs to condition damage bring it's dps under scourge it probably won't see use till it's changed.

Catalyst:

Really glad some changes were made to catalyst because it felt like it was being punished for just existing, you had to keep hitting every skill on cooldown or you'd lose your buffs. That said I think catalyst needs a passive survival boost not more active skills that may be in a different attunement when you're getting stomped on. A minor trait given a vitality buff would be a big help. The augment utilities lasted for such a pathetically short time for their cooldown it wasn't worth bringing, the extended duration/reduced cooldown will have to be pretty significant to make them function as is.

Virtuoso:

I didn't play this much but I agree it should just be power damage focused. Mirage already covers condi and since mesmer damage was boosted chronomancer as a power dps has been a thing for a while. If virtuoso doesn't have something to give it an edge over chronomancer it's hard to justify using it.

Vindicator:

I couldn't even judge the skills for this when the beta happened. The GS felt weak and the flip skills made it too confusing to use. That said I really hope you consider reworking Urn of Saint Viktor, this skill doesn't really serve any function. Compare it to things that regen in an area that are already in the game and the fact that this hurts you and prevents healing doesn't make sense. Necro transfusion, Ele soothing mist, guardian absolute resolve and signet of courage, even herald improved regen and renegades heal. None of them hurt you or prevent healing, I think every single one has a larger radius than the urn, have better heal scaling and sometimes other benefits. The renegade heal even shares the condition damage reduction with 5 people. The urn has no use, and the skill to smash it doesn't activate when your energy runs out, gives boons that can easily be maintained by other builds.

Willbender:

You changed almost every trait they had, which makes me wonder why you didn't do that for some other specs like the harbinger power line or catalyst in order to give the specs more focused playstyle with more variety in that playstyle. It also seems like a 180 to go from making them so selfish to possibly being able to give group alacrity. I don't know I'll have to poke at it next beta.

Specter:

I'll admit the 3 target quickness left the skill in a weird spot where it couldn't get a full party but did more than single target. The reasoning behind single target focus still hasn't been described. I hope the action cam bugs were fixed like others said but even with the action camera selecting allies is difficult if not impossible depending on how much clutter there is. If an ally is surrounded by enemies you're going to catch hell trying to heal them. The heal for shadow shroud didn't demotivate people from staying in to use shroud skills, the fact that the shroud skills don't do anything did. The heals shroud applies to your linked ally are weaker than just smacking them with scepter autos, and the conditions it applies are about on par with the condition the venom will apply for you. I think this will just have people wait the 5s and leave and still use almost no skills.

Untamed:

Thank you for getting rid of that visual effect, it was a blasphemy to fashion wars. I'm curious to how ambush skills will work, if they're not worth it there still won't be a reason to give your pet unleashed. In a group you'd be best served just keeping unleashed yourself since pet unleashed skills are all the same and don't do much, and you'd have most of the boons that the swapping traits can give already.

Bladesworn:

Attacking more often for reduced damage sounds fine to me, I hated that the best playstyle involved waiting in place 5s repeatedly. I didn't play with this as much but was weapon swap going on cooldown when dragon trigger was used get removed? Can dragon trigger be jumped into without going into gunsabre first? With so much damage focused on dragon trigger you end up stuck on gunsabre the entire time.

Mechanist:

Despite being the coolest elite spec I was too burned out at the time to test it much, sounds like the stat exchanges have been brought in line which sounds good. I do think that maybe it'd be better to apply the removed auto attacks to a skill in every weapon instead of forcing mace use. Skill 3 is used a lot on pistol and rifle so maybe just make weapon skill 3 activate rocket punch.

I look forward to poking at these next beta. Really hoping it shows a step in the right direction since classes like vindicator felt so bad I couldn't even see how they could be made useful.

Edited November 26, 2021 by XDeathShadowX.2619

[TheeBlackDeath.5692]

One more change you guys need to add to Vindicator is to add a Chilled condition proc to the mist bursts of Eternity's Requiem since not only does it make more sense given the Mists, but it'll also add more viable options for Vindicator as well, especially since the damage of the bursts is reduced per target each time they are struck by them. 

[Bomboed.5697]

As an Engineer player I am disappointed with Mechanist changes and borderline offended by Harbinger changes.
For Mechanist, power mech will be useless now. And it was the only fun way to play it in PvP. Yes, it was a little bit OP, but instead of tuning it, Anet decided to completely destroy it. And also they want to force Mechanists to use Mace, limiting already limited customization options.
But they most ridiculous changes are for Harbinger. "Elixirs are boring" they say. Yeah, they are boring. ON ENGINEER!
Core Engineer, which literally has a traitline called Alchemy, now less alchemical than necromancer. Engineers needs more options for condi build to be able to play something outside of "4 kits piano build". Engineers needs an option to use elixirs offensively to make them compete with kits.
But for some reason Anet decided to make elixirs fun for Necro and only for Necro.

Anet hates Engineers.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

12 minutes ago, Bomboed.5697 said:

As an Engineer player I am disappointed with Mechanist changes and borderline offended by Harbinger changes.
For Mechanist, power mech will be useless now. And it was the only fun way to play it in PvP. Yes, it was a little bit OP, but instead of tuning it, Anet decided to completely destroy it. And also they want to force Mechanists to use Mace, limiting already limited customization options.
But they most ridiculous changes are for Harbinger. "Elixirs are boring" they say. Yeah, they are boring. ON ENGINEER!
Core Engineer, which literally has a traitline called Alchemy, now less alchemical than necromancer. Engineers needs more options for condi build to be able to play something outside of "4 kits piano build". Engineers needs an option to use elixirs offensively to make them compete with kits.
But for some reason Anet decided to make elixirs fun for Necro and only for Necro.

Anet hates Engineers.

 

elixir on engi aren't boring. gave access to either tons of boons with some that could be shared or very cool utility (miniaturization, superspeed, dodge refresh, invisibility, pulsing reviver, convert all condi to boons, transform into tornado/rampage and even transform enemies into MOA. can harbringer elixir do that? NO. only give boons.).

harbringer on the other hand was only drink for some boons and gain blight to get killed faster. which was boring.
mace is half condi. mechanist can actually be played condi tho it is heavily focused on confusion.
scrapper flamethrower condi work in pvp. no need to play full kit. you wont be doing that with mechanist anyway.

[Avatara.1042]

4 hours ago, anna.5487 said:

To me, it seems like Harbinger was nerfed too much, and became even more complicated to play.

For Virtuoso, Willbender, Catalyst, there is not enough to make them preferable to other specializations.

Specter is too complicated as it is, targeting and lack of macros makes it very hard to play.

The rest are really improved.

Virtuoso ad Catalyst need a lot of help to make them viable, but the Willbender is completely different.  It already has super-powerful utility and alacrity.

[Unknown.3976]

That's a HUGE hit to harbinger's sustain.  And the nerf to Harbinger's dps seems heavy-handed, was expecting some nerfs but not to this degree. This could potentially upend harbinger's "high risk, high reward" play-style.

 

Kinda mixed on catalyst's changes,  it's ultimately still core ele with boon well(s). 

 

And not to keen on bladesworn changes, the long buildup was central, thematic to the spec.

[ShionKreth.1542]

9 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Tbf, initial Lush Forest was very spammy and stupid to use. Despite being a strong option for warriors I much so prefer it somewhat "nerfed" aganst the idea of said spamm-y gameplay, instead of that gameplay never altering and resulting in even greater Tactics nerfs.

 

Instead what needs to be addressed now is lesser overall CDs in Gunsaber and Shout skills fro comp, Fear Me and SiO. 

Don't tell me the old way is 'spammy and stupid', whatever that means, tell me the upside to the new system - why do we want it like this? In which way is it better at giving us more use of ammunition skills compared to the old version? How is it not the same as old mantras where you didn't want to use them up, which they changed to avoid exactly that?

[Jalad Lantana.3027]

I main a Necro but also have at level 80 a Ranger, a Mesmer, a Guardian, and a Warrior.  I have been playing on and off since the original GW2 Beta weekends.

When these new specializations come out it is a bit overwhelming to the point I find I only have time to fully explore a few.

This time around I tried the Ranger, and the Mechanist just to see what the mech was all about.

Having never played engineer before, I can't really comment too much other than what the mech was like from a Rangers point of view, which was  basically OP compared to Ranger pets.  It remains to be seen when we get our hands on them if it has been brought down to Ranger pet level.

I found the new Ranger elite did not address any of my wishes for the class.  Why is it that a castor or melee class can have a one button skill that does multiple things (high damage, CC, Boons, and cleansing) automatically for many seconds, when it is not acceptable that a pet do the same thing on command?  Why add elixirs you can throw instead of being able to throw traps?  Ranger is the second most played class after Guardian. One of the reasons for that is players like pets as a main part of their combat tool set, but the new elites seem to change the balance to less pet, more direct player action making it less of a ranger and more like the other classes.

My concerns seem to fall on deaf ears here in this community.  I get castigated for just wanting the original skills and pets make stronger and more versatile instead of new skills that sideline the pets and render old trait lines useless.

Why is it that class design in this game seems to put PVP and WvW first and general open world PVE last when the great majority of players only PVE?

I am not interested in any of the new elites for my toons classes as they all dramatically change the nature of each class.  I always hoped elite specs would build on the original class metas, not slap on complicated systems copy pasted from other classes with cosmetics and verbiage applied to make them seem unique.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Jalad Lantana.3027
more thoughts

[anna.5487]

2 hours ago, Avatara.1042 said:

Virtuoso ad Catalyst need a lot of help to make them viable, but the Willbender is completely different.  It already has super-powerful utility and alacrity.

Yeah, possible. I'm not maining guard, so can't say much. It felt squishy in the beta, but they did reworked a lot of it.

[Aravind.9610]

15 minutes ago, Jalad Lantana.3027 said:

Having never played engineer before, I can't really comment too much other than what the mech was like from a Rangers point of view, which was  basically OP compared to Ranger pets.  It remains to be seen when we get our hands on them if it has been brought down to Ranger pet level.

The difference being you have the option to play without pets on multiple builds on even core ranger, whereas mechanist is entirely designed around the mech and nerfing it would basically leave us with one entirely useless traitline.

[Kodama.6453]

59 minutes ago, Jalad Lantana.3027 said:

Having never played engineer before, I can't really comment too much other than what the mech was like from a Rangers point of view, which was  basically OP compared to Ranger pets.  It remains to be seen when we get our hands on them if it has been brought down to Ranger pet level.

The mech is not supposed to be on ranger pet level, but stronger. Not sure how you came up with the idea that it needs to be equal to ranger pets.

The mech needs to make up for the loss of power with the toolbelt being removed. That is ALOT of power it needs to compensate, making it ranger pet level does not suffice.

[Mini.4806]

I was so, so excited for Specter, and the beta disappointed me immensely. It simply didn't make sense: It didn't do anything that a Scourge or Guardian couldn't do better, but it was certainly clunkier to use! Single-target buffing in an MMO where *everything* else functions as an AOE is just... why. WHY. ESPECIALLY in a large event where you've got a snowball's chance in hell of clicking the right kittening target. The only way that could possibly make sense is if the Specter did that single-target buffing better than any other class, which they don't. And that's not even getting into how worthless they are running solo, with Rothollow venom not self-stacking. 

Thieves should always be a *selfish* class. Its only nod to group support should be making the enemies weaker, or, well, dead.  This spec needs to go back to the drawing board, 'cause this ain't it. 

[Mukz.2704]

Virtuoso....

 

Illusionist turned Blade-ist, no new mechanic like deceptions (Mirage)/Slow mechanics (Chrono) nor mind magic just a blade flinger with a simple counter... reflects (PvP). What's the idea behind this Elite Spec? PvE there's no trick to using skill's just generate blades and fling them at a single target not nearby foe's such as how Core/Chrono/Mirage works - where's the enjoyment out of that?

 

Applying Vulnerability on the Virtuoso Minor trait tree line is just from critting the target from spec'ing certain stats on gear - nothing like the Domination trait line, illusion of Invulnerability / Dazzling - there's no thought/reward from out playing people mechanically in PvP.

 

Everything is just so underwhelming after Chrono and Mirage were so interesting mechanically - what's the Virtuoso designed for Anet - a selfish class who just benefits for itself with no sustain in PvP and nothing to bring to the table for raiding in a team environment. Compared to the other new Elite spec's it's so far behind it seems Mesmer is slowly dying if it's not already and where's the glamour trait utility gone is that ever coming back?

 

 

Thanks for reading.

 

 

[Kaenaydar.5631]

Most the stuff for untamed sounds good given im a ranger main. The pets skills ui should have a option to make them auto cast. We get too many skills to mess with it will become too much work. I am glad one thing though the whole killing my pet to get a heal is gone. If pet skills in raids and fractals get too much the pets will be nerfed given we will be too focused in raids and fractals about our own damage to tell pet to use a high damage skill. Or we risk losing focus on mechanics and get killed off by it.

 

I might get made fun of but i took to ranger because its ease of use given i have a cognitive disability. I just hope the new job will be easily used for people like myself. I look foreword to test it given i hope this will get me out of core ranger build lol.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Kaenaydar.5631

[Bazsi.2734]

So there are nice changes, almost all of them. Now what will make them compete with the PoF specs(and half of HoT)? There must be another round of balancing in the works for the older e-specs.... right? RIGHT?

[Bale.3851]

The good:

Nice changes to the blight mechanic. Nerfing the risk abit and adding baslince interaction with an actual benefit was well done. Maybe add more changes in this direction. Like Shroud skill 4 doesnt daze at 10 blight but fears the opponent for more interaction with other traits. Also nerfing the dmg was expectet and a good change in my personal view.

 

The bad:

Thank you for killing Harbinger in PVP. Now we can all just /quit and move to another class or play core necro / scourge like the last 4-5 years. The delete of sustain with NO real compensation is a joke and im really sad you even had to nerf the selling point of harbringer which is mobility. I simply dont get why. With less dps, no dmg absorbing shround, a stacking debuff on your total life and lacking mobility there is no reason to play this spec over a reaper. You didnt even add stability/ Aegis/ invis or other survival tools. Simply slapping the defence with a nerf bat. And the reason you came up with is a joke. Every medicore player could maintain lifeforce with this specc. You just have to alter your gameplay and kite more. So all in all a very bad change...