End of Dragons Elite Specialization Updates

[RyuDragnier.9476]

2 hours ago, Mini.4806 said:

Thieves should always be a *selfish* class. Its only nod to group support should be making the enemies weaker, or, well, dead.  This spec needs to go back to the drawing board, 'cause this ain't it. 

And then they'll continue to not be taken simply because they don't provide anything to the group. No, the idea behind the spec is fine, the problem is rather than have the spec revel in its support, Anet is too terrified of Specter HAVING good support.

Look at all the Shroud skills, not a single one of them is good enough support to warrant staying in Shroud.

Look at Scepter, rather than keep the 3 person heal/quickness, they nerfed it. The AA for Scepter only hits 1 target instead of being able to hit multiple (at least 1 enemy and ally would work for this). The 2 is just the AA in a stronger form.

Look at Consume Shadows, they nerf it instead of dealing with Shroud to solve the problem of CS being a better use of Shroud's gauge.

Look at the Well of Bounty, it only gives boons you don't have and Might if you have them all.

Anet is TERRIFIED of Thief having actual support, and this spec will suffer unless they get over that fear and just let Thief have something good for once. We already have specs for damage, let us have a spec for support that can compete with the other big supports.

Edited November 26, 2021 by RyuDragnier.9476

[Astralporing.1957]

33 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

So there are nice changes, almost all of them. Now what will make them compete with the PoF specs(and half of HoT)? There must be another round of balancing in the works for the older e-specs.... right? RIGHT?

I'd rather they made the new specs good, than just went the easy way of nerfing everything else to make the new options "shine" in comparison. The latter option just invariably ends up with everything being bad, which is no fun.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

5 hours ago, ShionKreth.1542 said:

Don't tell me the old way is 'spammy and stupid', whatever that means, tell me the upside to the new system - why do we want it like this? In which way is it better at giving us more use of ammunition skills compared to the old version? How is it not the same as old mantras where you didn't want to use them up, which they changed to avoid exactly that?

It's pretty simple to understand really. Inital Luch Forest promoted you running full shoutheal builds and spamming them Off CD with no actual interaction. It simply became a press all your skills to gain Lush Forest and have them reacharge to spam them more. That's not very intuitive gameplay, especially for warrior which is a class it has been argued to lack depth in gameplay options/potential.

 

Initial Lush Forest would nerf Tactics, would increase shout CDs even. If that didn't happen, it would hit Tactical Reload, an elite that has use outside of Shout builds.

 

Arguably this version of Lush Forest (ICD of 1 sec isn't much of a nerf tbh) provides benefts at the start of the fght wthout havng burned out your CDs to engage. Not sure if they follow a similar strategy for Unshakable Mountain. Point being, Ammo -> Tactical Reload -> Ammo still gives you said benefit with 3 consecutive CD decreases, allowing you to store a final charge for actual use. 

 

Last beta some would basically spam SiO and spam every other skill to bring it back, just to capitalize on Lush Forest, leaving someone with no stunbreak for example till the skill refreshed.

 

Unlike Mantras, this isn't a situation you don't want to use your final skill at all. You want to keep it for when it matters. Lush Forest and Tactical Reload with the number of Ammo skill we can have can easily compensate you with the first charge of your skill in the meantime. 

 

Managing skills with Lush forest has simply become more elaborate. It needs some resource management. That's quite good gameplay other classes should have since we are the bar to ok balance. 

[Nerdbird.5782]

Virtuoso feels like what happens when console games get ported over to PC. Wonderful idea and concept, but not only does it not synergize well with what core mesmer already has to offer with the build, but because it replaces core mechanics that mesmer has been balanced around and tuned for for a decade it actually has dissynergy with the core of the class. It's such a shame that you had this entire concept of an ethereal psionic blades-slinger and completely failed to have the class sling blades in any meaningful way to fill the gaps that mesmer has when it comes to actual gameplay. Not only is the finished project lackluster in terms of balance and fun gameplay, it just pales in comparison to other elite specializations including chrono and mirage. 

All anet needs to do to improve virtuoso is ask "What am I— as a mesmer— bringing to the table that can't be brought better by someone else, and is Virtuoso the specialization to do that?"

[QuinQuin.9136]

I posted this in the Specter feedback section, but I am also posting it here because I believe it is important that it gets as much exposure as possible.

 

 

This is my first (Technically second now) time posting on the Forums, and I'm normally not one to do so, but after seeing what they have in store for changes, I just felt I had to speak up about it.

 

"Consume Shadows was causing Shadow Shroud to feel like something you should enter, and then immediately exit, to get Consume Shadows' healing effect as quickly as possible. This diminished the utility and fun of the Shroud skills themselves, as it was a strong reason to never use them."

.

Specific changes made in response to this feedback: The maximum potential healing and barrier from Consume Shadows will now grow stronger for every second you are in Shroud, up to 5 seconds. In Shadow Shroud itself, the skill Dawn's Repose has been changed from a dash into a ground-targeted leap, to make it easier to target a specific location, and is now a leap finisher.

 

This was a pretty poor way of handling this Trait, and there are several reasons for it.
The main reason would be that this is essentially a nerf on top of another nerf, and not actually a rework. What I mean by this is that, on top of making the potential healing weaker in both modes, you're also losing out on even more by having to sit in Shadow Shroud, losing Shadow Force while waiting for these stacks to build and THEN coming out to gain access to any reasonable healing. Due to this, you likely won't be able to put out the healing needed during split moments when it's most important, while also actively using your resource to build it to a state where it can be used for healing. 
It's also problematic due to the potential of being hit at some point, losing even more Shadow Force and potential healing while waiting to build up to use it and by then you'll likely have none to convert, or very little and it'll be irrelevant. 

Another reason would be due to the fact that it doesn't address the main issue of WHY this trait was so attractive in the first place. That being Shadow Shroud itself doesn't really FEEL worth using unless it's just to sit in for Initiative. It feels weak and feel unimpactful in the rotation.

A better way of handling all of this would be at most kicking it to 75% but also looking into ways to make Shadow Shroud feel worth sitting in to where you wouldn't WANT to blow it all on Healing at once. It could be through increasing the potential damage in the form, adding additional mechanics, making the tether apply to more than one person, or make the tether very, very strong as an incentive to want to keep it up.

I haven't even touched on Endless Night being only 1 target now and it's Quickness being removed.

 

 

I'll be honest here and say I'm not very keen on the current meta of GW2 in it's PvE side, so when I ask this, it's genuine:
With these current changes is Specter worth considering in group content as opposed to other Specializations who seem to bring more with less effort?

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

Revert the shadow heal on exit 

revert the blight heal…

You fixed spectre and harbinger 

[ledernierrempart.6871]

9 hours ago, Jalad Lantana.3027 said:

Why is it that class design in this game seems to put PVP and WvW first and general open world PVE last when the great majority of players only PVE?

fun fact, most of them aren't super good in pvp and WvW either.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

7 minutes ago, ledernierrempart.6871 said:

fun fact, most of them aren't super good in pvp and WvW either.

 

The primary sin of espec design, and a main cause of most issues is that devs do not seem to have a clear vision of what they want each espec to be. And by "clear vision" i am not talking about aestethics and general gameplay, but about the roles those especs are supposed to fulfill.

[Rodzynald.5897]

Catalyst sounds better that's for sure and I am eager to take it for a spin on the next beta run. However, if it is meant to be a bruiser/more tanky build, it really could use more passive traits that grants Catalyst unconditional buff to survivability, such as toughness and vitality increase. Ele as is is too squishy, and if Cata's main theme is being an upfront fighter then they better get around half of necro's tankiness, or Cata's will end up being shredded to pieces before unleashing all four elements on hammer #3

Although I am biased for hammers, a longbow would have been just as nice, as the only somewhat reliable ranged weapon that Ele's have is the staff. Perhaps it could be considered to give the hammer fire and air attunement the option to hit at 1200 range? Or, at the very least, have one of these two attunements 1200 range? In this way Ele will keep their viability to some extent whenever they are forced to back away from melee (be it in PvE or PvP), to make up for no weapon swap during combat.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Rodzynald.5897

[Tsukuyomi.7509]

First of all I  wanted to say that I am happy that you try to improve the elite specs and the overall good/open communication sourrounding the changes made (like CMC being interviewed by Mightyteapot). Most of the changes seem to be great, good or at least a step in the right derection.

 

But in my option (and many others as far as I can tell from this threat) you dropped the ball on specter.

I am not really happy about the main/new role you imagined for it in the first place.

Right now thief is lacking a role for endgame PVE and I think you kinda went for that but I am not sure a single target healer/support can even fill that role that well. GW2 PVE endgame is as far es I see in the end almost always about stacking and splashing out the most dps while sharing boons and healing. Most bosses deal aoe damage or change their target alot. So aoe focused support classes not only seem more viable but are also less difficult und clunky to use since you dont have so select the right ally at the right moment all while also looking out for boss animations while also trying to look through the flashy GW2 combat.

You could mabye resolve that a bit by playing the UI really hard, but that doesnt seem fun and is against one of GW2s original principles as far as I remember.

 

So I already feared that specter would become extremly niche. (I mean what kind of niches are 2v2s and supporting a friend in two man open world...). And that after deadeye already became a very niche spec (basicly only close to "meta" in WvW roaming).

I hoped that they would rework specter traitlines after the initial feedback to allow more focus on other playstyles apart from single target support (solo condi dps or self buffing variants for open world, pvp and wvw for example) but instead you doubled down on the support and even nerved it while making it even more single target orientet while also nervig the dps capability of the spec.

Also there were no changes to the clunky wells that have a long cast time for a very short blink which makes them akward to hit (especially in pvp). Some of which even feel kinda obsolete (e.g. regular damage well).  Some of the shroud skills - that dont even feelt worth the tradeoff for the Initiative thiefs lose for them - were even nerfed....

 

I really hope that wasnt the last change to specter before launch...

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Tsukuyomi.7509

[Extrinc.6301]

As a diehard thief main and someone who's very excited about Specter, I thought I'd go to the forums to share my thoughts. 

 

First, let me say THANK YOU for such detailed and amazing patch notes. I love the depth of explanation behind your decisions. Excellent work. 

 

As for specter, I can't help but feel the focus is in the wrong place here. Consume shadows was strong, but I hardly think it was over powered. It was simply the best thing to be doing with your shroud because shroud felt extremely unimpactful. Not only are your utilities locked off, all shroud abilities do not feel strong. They provide very little support AND damage... I really feel like boons should be added to some of these abilities to reinforce this as a support spec! 

 

I also feel that the quickness change was poor. I understand the vision for a 2 player support, but the reality is that gw2 does not support that vision inherently. AoE support feels good, and it is good. That won't change with EOD, and forcing specter into this nonexistent niche will ensure it is dead on arrival. Providing group alacrity isn't enough, and while I agree specter was very strong in the initial beta, all I see are nerfs in the wrong areas that render it needlessly weak. I think most of us would like to see a viable condi build and a viable support build for specter that is accepted in the content I and many others enjoy, such as T4s, Raids, Strikes. As it stands, Specter will not be welcomed into these groups in either role. 

 

I just feel as though the balancing for specter is very conservative and safe, reining in its strong areas but giving nothing in return... Which has rendered it now to be strong at nothing. I don't see the need for this conservative attitude given the state of some supports in the game, who can safely provide decent damage while spitting out might, quickness, stability and aegis all by themselves. Even in this imagined 2 player support scenario, I think I'd prefer firebrand over specter currently. 

 

It feels as if too much concern was given over specter excelling at something the developers didn't intend, despite the community liking it. The consume shadows and quickness change feel like a parent scolding me for playing a way they didn't agree with, and then making changes so I DO do that... But the reason I wasn't doing it was because it wasn't fun or effective. We lost our fun playstyle, but the initial issue of the intended specter playstyle being ineffective/unfun was not fixed. 

 

Tl;Dr 2 Player support spec is trying to address a niche that doesn't exist, and it doesn't even excel at it. Now you've gutted its group content role and we're left with a spec that excels at nothing. 

 

I will be playing and testing specter come the 30th to see if what I'm saying holds true. Based on this post, it seems you are ready to listen to feedback and make more big changes, which I'm excited for. Thank you for taking the time to communicate with us, we all appreciate it, even if some people have a hard time expressing so. Especs are very close to people's hearts and I appreciate that you're treating the subject with care. Thank you! 

[Monkey See.1498]

Lots of amazing changes here but one truly awful decision stands out

Quote

• Psychic Riposte: Blades stocked on activation increased from 1 to 3. Internal cooldown increased from 1s to 3s. No longer fires a damaging attack when triggered, instead causes your next Bladesong to be unblockable.

Virtuoso does not need to be running around with unblockable in PvP or WvW.  It was incredibly well balanced before and this change puts it to insanely overpowered territory. 

[Riot Inducer.8964]

Love the Vindicator stuff, I liked it before and these changes sound like good streamlining of the spec. Can't wait to try it out next week.

Harbinger changes are interesting, good to see elixirs become more interesting, as is being able to manipulate blight. Not sure how removing the regen effect will work out in the long run, Harbinger already gives up a lot of defense/sustain, think this change might hurt the spec a lot. 

Untamed, I must say these changes don't really change my opinion of the spec. Pet unleashed mode is still a static skill override with no flexibility or bonus to the pets stats. While it's nice to have the attack and return commands bendable again, I still see no mention of automating pet skills which is still a marked downgrade in pet function in 90% of cases. Also hammer still doesn't have any skills that interact with the pet. All in all I feel Untamed needs a much bigger overhaul if it wants to be a spec that empowers ranger pets.

[Narrenwinter.2637]

1 hour ago, Monkey See.1498 said:

Lots of amazing changes here but one truly awful decision stands out

Virtuoso does not need to be running around with unblockable in PvP or WvW.  It was incredibly well balanced before and this change puts it to insanely overpowered territory. 

 

Please elaborate how one unblockable yet easily dodged Bladesong per evade/block makes Virtuoso "insanely overpowered".

Did you even play Virtuoso during beta?

[Sifolstour.3210]

First of all i have to say thank you for the hard work, too much stuff has been done on a few days.

It seems to be too much criticism onto the virtuoso, but for me and the classes that i'm looking for (untamed, harbinger and mechanist) i'm pretty excited.

 

A quick first look on those:

 

*The Untamed at first felt like an unfinished class, as it will be right now on paper feels a pretty solid class and playing around the new mechanic more rewarding cause you get more benefits depending on who is unleashed.

   _The adition of  the1st skill being a special Ambush version while unleashed is just what we needed for a better cohesion between the new elite and all the core weapons adding much more build diversity and not having to rely only on the hammer to get the benefits of the unleashed powers.

   _The tweaks made on the Hammer, mainly the mobility added to the kit seems promising 🙂

   _Those changes made on Cantrips are incredible, as an example Mutate conditions now with the adition of the stun break on it will be my pick for sure to fill the stunbreak/condi clear utility skill slot. Also I like the boons granted while unleashed or not.

  _Traits for me are a mixed bag; First one that confuses me is corrupting vines cause we already had boon corruption on it so adding boon removal on top feels strange maybe  add +1 corrupted boon while landing the ambush skill instead of removing it to maximize its potential, Vow of the untamed minor trait removed??. But for the major part of the changes in my opinion will define more your playstile going for more sustain with the addition of barriers and heals or going the opposite way more damage focused.

 

One major complaint that i have with this spec are the unleashed skills of the pets being the same for all of them. As an example i would love to have on the f2 a different skill based on archetypes and call them BEAST ABILITY for better trait sinergy with the beastmastery and wildness of survival traitlines. That would be alot of work, but for me will make the class a 10/10. Maybe a minor change cause we have already some traits bounded to them that are pretty well crafted but something that will define more the pet we are using.

 

*The Harbinger elixirs changes for me are perfect and make them relevant and interesting to build around them, i liked alot both the boon that we will get just by using them and the additional effect on impact.  But what i liked the most is the blight management and augmented effects over the blight treshold.

Some things to note here:

_Vile Vials seems to me a wasted/weak trait now that you removed half of it, so removing it and adding the vulnerability on impact to the Twisted Medicine trait feels the logic move.

_Removing Vile Vials will let us open a trait choice and here is where im gonna make the call: BRING BACK THE LIfE REGENERATION THAT YOU REMOVED FROM LIFE FORCE DRAIN IS THE WAY TO GO ADDING IT AS A TRAIT CHOICE. This will allow some interesting build that dont rely that much on the soul reaping traitline cause picking this trait instead of Wicked/Septic Corruption will make more build diversity (for example geting blood magic instead of it for solo play adding some selfsustain builds), specially with the addition of the new blight threshold mechanic that empowers certain skills. With this change we can choose between maxing out and maintaining the blight at max for a sustained heavy damage or use it just for BURST COMBOS.

_I didn't like at all the reduction on damage per blight stack so i would like you to revert back this decision and let it like it was on the past, harbingers like core, reaper and scourge should build some life to fully utilize the shroud mechanic on solo playstyles and with the addition of some sources of blind/weaknes/regeneration /resolution/criple to the elixirs i think is enough to compensate the life we lose for the damage modifiers we get from blight (maybe add some damage mitigation on shroud 😘).

 

Overall it seems to me a well crafted GLASS CANON espec.

 

*O gosh what can i say off the Mechanist, maybe past times were better, at the beginning it wasn't my cup of tea but when i started playing it i couldn't stop. For me those stats reduction will hit so hard the class.

         I tried on beta lots of builds and the one i liked the most (and wasn't a meme like Berserker Jade Canons build 😝) it was a condi/support build Pistol/shield with 2/2/2 on alchemy 1/3/1 on inventions and Single-Edge Cutters/Channeling Circuits/Barrier Engine on mechanist. That allowed me to bring back the mech every time it died cause the perma alacrity and a good amount of barrier aplication and condi removal.

        

       The adition of mech commands were a must have. Besides that my major concern was the big cooldown of the mech on non alacrity focused builds so on those builds when the mech died i was relegated to a core engineer with 2 traitlines and no toolbelt skills... So what can i say lets see how all those changes will play out cause they reduced to 50 seconds the cd but also reduced mechs stats to the floor.

       Also i will note that i dont like how you moved from the minor trait to the mace the usage of the mech skill rocket punch cause if we dont use the mace we wont get this amazing skill.

 

I CAN'T WAIT TO PLAY BETA 4!!!

 

[mortrialus.3062]

A brief list of issues Virtuoso had other than bugs that people consistently brought up that wasn't remotely addressed:

 

1. The projectiles are far too slow and are struggling to hit moving targets at any range.

2. There's no bladesong option for when fights get projectile hate heavy.  The F2 could very comfortably be replaced with a ground targeted AoE bladesong, giving Virtuoso more flexibility.

3. Bladesong Dissonance and Bladeturn Requiem are extreme 100% downgrades from Core Shatters with literally no upsides except hilariously low damage.

4. Bladecall and Mental Focus run 100% counter to literally every other aspect of the spec. Rapid Fire = Good damage any range. True Shot = Good Damage any range. Bladecall requires the Virtuoso to detarget the enemy, get point blank, lurch the camera at their enemy's feet, and then fire in order to get decent damage. Mental Focus rewards being in melee when literally 80% of the spec is designed around being at very long range. 

5. Between the Auto Attack, Bladecall and Unstable Bladestorm there are zero options on dagger when the fight gets projectile hate heavy. All of them are projectiles. Unstable Bladestorm is a projectile that shoots projectiles and if the main projectile is destroyed it cancels the entire skill. Ranger Longbow gets Barrage for when the fight is projectile hate heavy. Dragonhunter has Hunter's Ward and Symbol of Energy when the fight gets projectile hate heavy. Unstable bladestorm should be an AoE that you can cast wherever you want.

6. Dagger has no option to keep enemies away from them. There's no cripple or chill or immobilize or a ward. No mobility to maintain distance. Ranger and Dragonhunter have far better kits with multiple tools to make it a struggle for enemies to get into melee range in the first place. 

7. Dagger has no option for when enemies close the gap. No knockback or stun or mobility. Ranger longbow has point blank shot and stealth shot. Dragonhunter has Knockback shot and traps as well as a very powerful shield that they can cast skill through and the f2 leap. 

8. Virtuoso has no answer for Downstate. It doesn't have distortion stomping. It has no access to stability. And it doesn't have the cleaving damage of a Power Herald or a Dragon Hunter or a Reaper to either out DPS an attempt to revive the enemy or scare off an enemy attempting to revive.  Even if you score a down, too often the enemy will get revived by a teammate since you can't safe stomp and you can't out DPS the revive or punish the reviver.

9. The utilities are bad. Ventari rev and Druids have knockbacks that are half the cooldown of Psychic Force. Rain of Blades hits for less than half the damage of DH's Procession of Blades in PvP and Thousand Cuts is without a doubt the single worst skill I've ever seen in this game in terms of delivery and it nearly impossible to land on anything with no mention of bug fixes whatsoever. Instant cast doesn't help when the projectiles literally don't come out and couldn't handle any changes to terrain at all.

10. The traits reliant on blocking and dodging are bad. Virutoso is a long range caster that is by design almost as squishy as possible in this game. It wants to be kiting and outranging enemies, not actively drawing their attention and attacks. 

11.  Quickness on block and evade sounds okay but it's such a short duration that by the time you finish your block or dodge animation the quickness is gone anyway. Other skills and traits with quickness have it built in a way that will naturally be triggered when the class goes on the offensive like Soulbeast's Live Fast, Revenant's Brutality and Phase Traversal. Quickness on Block and Evade is a complete waste 90% of the time.

12. The unblockable when you block is bad for the same reason. If they're blocking they aren't going to trigger your access to unblockable since they probably aren't attacking, and if they are attacking allowing you to block you don't need the unblockable. You'll never get the unblockable bladesongs when you need it. Only when you don't need it.

13. The condition traits were bad, but far more people were just baffled about why they were on Virtuoso in the first place when Mirage is a dedicated full condition spec already. People didn't want the condition traits buffed they wanted them replaced with traits that actually allowed Virtuoso to be good at what it's supposed to be good at in the first place.

14. Staff and Scepter gain about 50% of their auto attack damage from clones auto attacking on condition builds. Virtuoso without clones inadvertantly is nerfing these weapons by 50%. So you buffed the condi traits but left the core condi weapons unviable on Virtuoso. Power mirage and condi chrono saw uses in various content.  But it wasn't with a cookie cutter line of traits that brute forced those builds, but just ensuring the core weapons still functioned well enough on them and the traits were interesting and flexible enough to be good condi or power.

15. There's nothing new about Virtuoso. Specter has a never before seen way to support allies. Bladesworn has a never before seen way to charge attacks to insane levels. Mechanist has a never before seen customizable pet based on your traits and stats. Virtuoso adds nothing to the game like those do.

HoT and PoF specs like Chronomancer, Soulbeast giving the ranger their pet bonuses, Holosmith's overheat mechanic, Scourge shades they can pulse attacks from, Druid offering healing and support in ways never seen in the game before. Tons of specs have pushed what is mechanically possible in the game further. Virtuoso adds nothing to the game like those do. Virtuoso doesn't even add things that are in the game that Mesmer hasn't had a lot of access to. Virtuoso could have had lots of fear since it's supposed to be pscionic. It could have lots of chill and cripple. It could have had lots of stability.

Gameplaywise there's little difference between Virtuoso and core, chrono, and mirage.  It's still fundamentally about building ammo and pressing an F skill. The core gameplay loop is still largely the same as all mesmer specs right down to cookie cutter power skill, confusion skill, daze skill, snd defensive skill for the profession mechanic.

 

It doesn't add literally anything new to the game and it doesn't add anything new to mesmer. It only takes away Mesmer's existing flavor. It is pure unsweetened raw vanilla.

 

All of which was ignored in favor of adding out of combat blade generation, which people were not even asking for, and giving unblockable access that by design means you'll only ever have access to it when you don't need it and won't ever have it when you do need it.

Profoundly disappointed by this.

Edited November 29, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Caligrafers Blade.3871]

Well, to be fair, a third espec on the nine base professions is a bit of a stretch, and you have to appreciate the creativity and effort put into creating them. As many have rightly mentioned, especs are very close to the community's heart irrespective of the mode, so the passions run really high when it comes to their crafting. That being said, some especs did move quite a bit from their archetype (virtuoso for example) while others are struggling shadows of themselves in their new avatars (like specter).  I feel we should wait and see how this beta goes, and go with the flow when the new especs are out for the love of the game and, of course, for anet's effort and dedication. 

 

Hopefully, by the next expac, we should have new professions altogether simply because if this set wasn't forced-fit enough, the next will surely be, and we might as well get new ones. 

[Zauriel Mooncat.4968]

Why cant you just be honest and say you dont kitten know how to make Thief an actual useful support that can go head to head with current supporters? 

 

If you are going to nerf it to the ground like this and cut my kitten wings on the idea of actually being usefull on raids and actually enjoy being a support as a thief, you might as well NOT put this spec at all, is useless, is a waste, does not have any relevance in support meta and doesnt even scratch the surface on being a wanted specs on ANY end game content.

 

You will just keep thief as being only good for one thing, dps and give nothing else to the table while ALL OTHER SPECS give dps AND SUPPORT  to the table.

 

[Zauriel Mooncat.4968]

 

 

All I want to do is bring something to the table besides DPS and be wanted in end game content.

 

 Every single spec gives now dps and something else to the table, pugs barely look at thiefs any more. I want to get into raids and this was my hopefull entry, and now is just the same closed door... 

 

I hope is not the end and as some said, more updates appear to actually make it a support class that can go head to head with current ones and be of use on end game content. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Zauriel Mooncat.4968

[LucianDK.8615]

From reading the thread it feels like noone is happy with any of the especs.

 

Regarding mace for Mechanist, it kind of felt like they had to do something with it, or it was totally irrelevant to the spec.

[Astralporing.1957]

38 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Regarding mace for Mechanist, it kind of felt like they had to do something with it, or it was totally irrelevant to the spec.

And now it's relevant only because it os required...

Hardly an improvement.

[Sifolstour.3210]

58 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

From reading the thread it feels like noone is happy with any of the especs.

 

That's a false statement, in my case as i stated some posts up yours im pretty excited on some of them.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Sifolstour.3210

[jack boule.8149]

On 11/23/2021 at 6:45 PM, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

• • Devouring Cut: Range decreased from 900 to 600. Recharge increased from 6s to 8s in PvE only. No longer applies torment by default. Additional functionality has been added to this skill; If you are at or above the Blight Threshold (5) on use, this skill removes 5 stacks of Blight, deals double damage, and applies 5 stacks of Torment for 5s to affected targets.
•  
• • Voracious Arc: Range decreased from 900 to 600. Additional functionality has been added to this skill; If you are at or above the Blight Threshold (10) on use, this skill removes 10 stacks of Blight, deals double damage, and applies 5 stacks of Torment for 10s to affected targets.

 

Hi

Wanted to ask... why ??? why not making this range reduction pvp/wvw only ?

I was really hyped by the Harbinger for dungeon/fotm & i think the new elixir system is really cool (at least more cool than before !) but now, you reduce de range of the jump and i'll have to stick on DD again for 3 years... that hurts !

 

I think we could have a trait than increase that range, for "running" builds etc

[Tails.9372]

On 11/23/2021 at 6:45 PM, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

Key pieces of feedback that we identified were:

...

3) Too much power is loaded into the Mech, instead of the Engineer player.

That's a rather dishonest way of frasing the issue, the acual thing most people took issue with was more among the line of that the mechanist is "useless once the mech is dead" which is, at its core, a compleatly different complaint and I feel like the changes made to adress this problem go in the wrong direction. Them nerfing the mech (especially in PvE) goes contrary to what's appealing to the theme the in the fist place. What they should have done here is to add bonus effects to the traits that buff the player when the mech isn't summoned . That would have addressed the issue while also not devaluing the core feature of the e-spec in the process.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

On 11/24/2021 at 8:20 PM, zaery.6478 said:

Guardian main here: Am I reading correctly that you're putting alac on a passive? Like an effect that triggers without pressing buttons? Willbenders will be able to keep up permanent alacrity while afk? What? I genuinely can't think of a good way to respond without profanity. 

No, you are not reading correctly. Thanks for asking before complaining about things that don't exist 👌