Virtuoso changes for Beta 4 = damage reduction on most skills for PvE

[Levetty.1279]

Absolute kittening joke. 

 

Mesmer - Virtuoso

We saw a great response to Virtuoso from Beta 1 and appreciate all of the feedback that has been given.

With its return in Beta 4, we've made specific adjustments to certain mechanics, skills, and traits, to help gameplay flow a little smoother, make optimizing gear easier, and improve the role of specific traits.

Key pieces of feedback that we identified were:

1) Blades persist between combat, but it's difficult to gain them before fights, especially as certain utility skills would not give them without a target. This felt strange, and slowed down play. 

Specific changes made in response to this feedback: Virtuosos will now automatically stock a blade every 10s while out of combat. In addition, you can now use Mirror Images and Decoy without a target to gain blades out of combat. This should make it much easier to initiate a fight with a Bladesong, which leads us to #2...

2) There was no direction in skill activation, leading to a vague rotation. We heard a desire for a mechanic to create moments of opportunity and structure to skill use, rather than using everything off recharge.

Specific changes made in response to this feedback: The minor trait Deadly Blades now (in addition to the existing vulnerability on crit) causes you to gain a 5% increase to all damage dealt for 5s after completing a Bladesong. This does not stack. This should make it feel better to initiate a battle with a Bladesong and weave them into your skill rotation to keep the bonus damage going!

3) Quiet Intensity gives you 10% increased critical chance from Fury, but not your Phantasms. As crit capping Phantasms is still very important, this makes a problem: You'd still need more Precision on your gear to crit cap them too!

Specific changes made in response to this feedback: We 100% agree. Phantasms will now get the 10% bonus critical chance from this trait too.

4) Infinite Forge and Psychic Riposte are not as good for blade generation as Bloodsong.

Specific changes made in response to this feedback: We've removed the 3-blade cap from Infinite Forge, and Psychic Riposte now stocks 3 blades all at once when it activates.

5) The Condition Damage traits generally seem underwhelming compared to Power options. The condition builds just don't stack up!

Specific changes made in response to this feedback: Oops. A lot of this one was probably a bug. Having the trait Sharpening Sorrow selected was causing Bladesong Sorrow to not apply any confusion on hit! That's fixed now. In addition, we've bumped up the duration of the bleed applied by Jagged Mind in PvE, and the new 5% bonus to damage from Deadly Blades will also help here. We'll be keeping an eye on how this plays during Beta 4.

Of course, we've also fixed lots of bugs and have done additional tuning on skill and trait performance.

Full List of Changes to Virtuoso:

Gameplay Changes:

• While out of combat, the Virtuoso will now automatically stock a blade every 10 seconds.

Skill and Trait Adjustments:

Bladesongs:

• Bladesong Harmony: Damage coefficient per blade reduced from 0.8 to 0.7 in PvE only.
• Bladesong Dissonance: Damage coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 1 in PvE only.
• Bladeturn Requiem: Damage coefficient reduced from 0.3 to 0.2 in PvE only. Base block duration set to 2s. 

Dagger:

• Flying Cutter: Damage coefficient per hit reduced from 0.65 to 0.5 in PvE only.
• Flying Cutter: Added a skill fact to clarify that each count towards causing a bonus flurry of blades will expire after 5 seconds if not 'used' by reaching a count of 3. This is not a functionality change.
• Bladecall: Damage coefficient per hit reduced from 0.6 to 0.5 in PvE only.
• Unstable Bladestorm: Increased power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.25 in PvP and WvW.

Utility Skills:

• Thousand Cuts: Recharge reduced from 75s to 60s in PvE only. This skill is now unblockable. Can now be aimed in any direction while moving. This skill is now cast instantly. Number of hits increased from 6 over 3s to 10 over 5s. Damage coefficient per hit reduced from 2 to 0.5 in PvE, and from 1 to 0.5 in PvP and WvW.
• Rain of Swords: Damage coefficient per hit reduced from 1 to 0.8 in PvE only.
• Psychic Force: Reduced cooldown from 45 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW.

Traits:

• Psychic Riposte: Blades stocked on activation increased from 1 to 3. Internal cooldown increased from 1s to 3s. No longer fires a damaging attack when triggered, instead causes your next Bladesong to be unblockable.
• Infinite Forge: No longer capped at a maximum of 3 blades.
• Quiet Intensity: Your summoned phantasms now also gain the increased critical strike chance from Fury.
• Duelist's Reversal: Now additionally grants Regeneration for 3s.
• Deadly Blades: Now additionally grants a 5% increase to all damage dealt for the next 5s after successfully casting a Bladesong skill.
• Jagged Mind: Bleed duration increased from 2s to 2.5s in PvE only.

Core Mesmer:

• Signet of the Ether: Added clarifying text stating that for Virtuoso, this skill's passive effect triggers when stocking a blade.
• Illusionary Inspiration: Added clarifying text stating that for Virtuoso, this trait triggers when stocking a blade.
• Illusionary Defense: Added clarifying text stating that for Virtuoso, this trait triggers when stocking a blade.
• Compounding Power: Added clarifying text stating that for Virtuoso, this trait triggers when stocking a blade.
• Signet of the Ether: Added clarifying text stating that for Virtuoso, this skill's passive effect triggers when stocking a blade.
• Decoy: Will now stock a blade if used out of combat. Previously this skill only stocked a blade if a target was in range.
• Mirror Images: May now be used out of combat to stock two blades. Previously this skill only stocked blades if a target was in range.

Bug Fixes:

• Signet of the Ether: Fixed a bug preventing the passive heal effect of this signet from occurring when you stock a Blade.
• Illusionary Inspiration: Fixed a bug preventing this trait from activating and healing nearby allies when you stock a Blade.
• Imminent Voyage: Fixed a bug causing this skill to create a clone instead of stocking a blade when used by a Virtuoso.
• Feigned Surge: Fixed a bug causing this skill to create a clone instead of stocking a blade when used by a Virtuoso.
• Bountiful Disillusionment: Fixed a bug allowing boons to be gained when using a Bladesong even when that Bladesong's cast was aborted.
• Bladesong Sorrow: Fixed a bug in which Bladesong Sorrow did not apply Confusion if the trait Sharpening Sorrow was equipped.
• Bladesong Sorrow: Fixed a bug in which Bladesong Sorrow could hit additional times if you are standing inside the targets' hitbox.
• Bladeturn Requiem: Skill effects now properly cancel if this skill is aborted mid-execution.
• Inspiring Distortion: Fixed a bug in which this trait did not activate when a Virtuoso uses Bladeturn Requiem.
• Ether Clone: Fixed a bug in which this skill did not stock blades for a Virtuoso past a maximum of 3.
• Mental Focus: Updated to correctly display that the damage increase to targets within the distance threshold is 10% in PvE. This is not a reduction in the actual power of this trait, the displayed 15% in Beta 1 was incorrect, and the actual bonus damage granted is 10%.

[Levetty.1279]

They still don't see a problem with sub par condition traits on a power spec that has no clones. They don't see a problem with lazy and boring traits in general. They don't see the problems with the design of the spec and how it will work in PvP/WvW. They don't see a problem in them ripping out a core mechanic and replacing it with nothing. They don't see a problem with a ranged spec having no ability to stay at ranged. They don't see a problem with bladesongs being just worse versions of base shatters with no advantages.

They did have a problem with it having good dps in PvE though!

Gaining blades out of combat is decent but who cares when they have nerfed the damage of every bladesong including the kitten f4.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Levetty.1279

[SloRules.3560]

Have they even addressed a single complaint from mesmer players?

[zealex.9410]

Phantasms now get crit chance and deadly blades also gives 5% more dmg to everything.

Dmg wise it prob balances out.

 

What weirds me out is that condi line is still there and that the projectile conundrum of the spec was ignored.

[Levetty.1279]

6 minutes ago, SloRules.3560 said:

Have they even addressed a single complaint from mesmer players?

None Mesmer players on reddit said it was good so in Anets mind that means it is.

[Xenesis.6389]

57 minutes ago, SloRules.3560 said:

Have they even addressed a single complaint from mesmer players?

 

The spec wasn't made for mesmers, it's for staff elementalist who miss range aoeing, and casuals who think illusions are complicated 😜

 

Their major update is blade generation and nerfing damage across the board to add 5% damage from shatters bwahahahaha!

Edited November 24, 2021 by Xenesis.6389

[Levetty.1279]

Do yourself a favor, don't read the changes for the other elite specs because it just makes the whole thing worse.

[Zenith.7301]

33 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Do yourself a favor, don't read the changes for the other elite specs because it just makes the whole thing worse.

 

 

Not much better for other specs.

 

They actually gave Guardians even more boonshare, including alacrity boonshare as an option so it can literally be the class with every single support role covered on top of DPS.

 

Meanwhile Vindicator, who couldn't break past 30k DPS (Virtuoso was doing 40k) got a measly 10% strike damage trait as if it will compensate for the missing 8-9k DPS deficit the spec has in PvE.

 

It's so obvious these developers don't design with PvE in mind.

[Levetty.1279]

58 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Number of hits increased from 6 over 3s to 10 over 5s. Damage coefficient per hit reduced from 2 to 0.5 in PvE, and from 1 to 0.5 in PvP and WvW.

This skill was already so bad that PvE mobs would just randomly walk out of it let alone PvP players but now they have made it so it will hit even less things.

[phokus.8934]

Man these changes are decent but they totally missed the point as why Virtuoso is bad.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Apart from the riposte trait they straight up ignored every suggestion. 

What a joke.

 

Edit: not even a small CD to avoid double tap the new sword skill. 

Talk about uselessness. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[hathreyn.4138]

Maybe this was wishful thinking on my part, but I was hoping the condition damage line on Virtuoso could get reworked into something else.  Right now we have a boon support line, a power focused line and a condi focused line.  Sounds like a like an elite specialization and more like trying to be Mesmer 2.0 in a clunky way that misses the mark.  

 

Given that the blade skill fact was added to greatsword skills and not sword skills,  I was hoping this could be treated as Domination+ elite spec.  Have a power line, a line of traits that interacts with interruptions like the Domination traitline, then a boon support line could still fit in somehow.

 

I will wait to test this, but I don't see how even with these changes a condi Virtuoso will compete with a condi Mirage.

[Exciton.8942]

These changes are good. I really like providing unblockable options and giving passive blade generation out of combat.

I'd still like to see a few more changes:

1. F3 needs cast time reduction to 1/4.

2. Infinite forge feels boring especially with the new passive blade generation baseline. I think it should be redesigned.

I thin infinite forge can be changed to something like this:

You will only stock up to 3 blades maximum however they will gain additional effect. F1/F2 becomes unblockable, F3 becomes stun, F4 becomes larger AOE

Edited November 24, 2021 by Exciton.8942

[babak.3654]

31 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

It's so obvious these developers don't design with PvE in mind.

The great mystery is what they do have in mind.

[Lethion.8745]

I can't put on words how dissappointed I am. I was expecting this to happen because of the misleading feedback from heavy casual players but I didn't expect them to actually NERF it for PvE. Only change in the right direction is the unblockable effect from Pshycic Riposte. I feel like people kinda glance it over and it will matter more than it seems but it will cover only 1 of the dozens of wounds Virtuoso has.  At this point I am conviced that Virtuoso was designed to be the go to power DPS build for those in need of low-intensity builds and nothing else. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Lethion.8745

[Lethion.8745]

4 minutes ago, babak.3654 said:

The great mystery is what they do have in mind.

Roler players maybe?

[Levetty.1279]

CMC just said on Mighty teapots stream that Virtuoso is supposed to be the shatter spec.

 

Have they not played core and Chronomancer? Can they not see how much worse bladesongs are then shatters? Is this the problem, virtuoso was designed by people who don't play Mesmer for people who don't play Mesmer?

 

Just delete the class Anet, it will be less painful.

[Downstate.4697]

Riposte is the only relevent change looks like.  Hopefully these changes are enough to put virtuoso in a duelist role for pvp.

[aspirine.6852]

I kinda fail to even see the point of this elite spec..

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, SloRules.3560 said:

Have they even addressed a single complaint from mesmer players?

Yes, I said mesmers revive trait was too strong and it was nerfed.
You are all welcome.

[Jokubas.4265]

I think the debate is more that they didn't do enough than they didn't do anything. I think almost every single critique I had was covered in here.

We got the passive out of combat blade stocking, the Elite was made instant so doesn't interrupt or get preemptively dodged, the Scepter clone limit bug was fixed, and tooltips were added to old traits to answer whether or not they are supposed to interact with the Blade mechanic. Those may not have been strict power changes but they add up a lot for quality of life.

I also think that the Elite Specializations aren't exactly supposed to appeal to current players of the Profession. If you already like the playstyle of the Profession or an existing Elite Spec, then you're good, you can and probably are already just playing that. A new Elite Specialization offering a new playstyle sort of by definition conflicts with that, so it's better off being attractive if it's a new playstyle for a Profession that previously didn't have a playstyle that you liked. It feels underwhelming for your own Profession, but it kinda makes sense.

All that said, I'm not going to get in the way of more feedback. I'm not a judge of how competitive the damage is in the bigger picture (although even I noticed that the trade-off in vulnerability for the extra damage didn't exactly come out in our favor), and there's definitely still a weird dissonance about the F skills compared to the Core Profession. I still say, even if Virtuoso was doing amazingly, it only makes the Shatters on the rest of Mesmer feel even weirder if this is supposed to be the spec that cares about them.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Jokubas.4265

[Levetty.1279]

2 minutes ago, Jokubas.4265 said:

or get preemptively dodged,

Instead it will now just tickle you as you casually walk out of it. 

[Zoser.7245]

When the best things you get are the bugs fixed watching the whole picture...

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No more words are needed.

 

Also, we are going to relate you how much we understand your feedback and the improvements we did due to it. So you not need to read the whole changes. LoL  🤣

Now ... remembering how much time I spent writing a proper comment to make the Virtunada a fearsome and competitive specialization. Lost time.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Zoser.7245

[Caid.4932]

Disappointing, needs more.

Dagger needs new skills, needs to be more variety and usability to shatters. Utility, heal and elite all need more quality of life changes and lower cooldowns

[Daniel Handler.4816]

2 hours ago, SloRules.3560 said:

Have they even addressed a single complaint from mesmer players?

Bladesongs can be made unblockable. The elite is unblockable by default. This alone means it can be used in WvW zerging. So yes