Virtuoso changes for Beta 4 = damage reduction on most skills for PvE

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Yeah not reading  a post from somebody who thinks math is a lie.

Of course you aren't, because why would some who lies about what other people say and think want to hear the truth right from the horse's mouth even? Again, I didn't say math was a lie. That's just you being obtuse because I don't push your agenda and support your Virtuoso hate threads. You just don't want to believe anything you hear because you think the continuous stream of negativity is a compelling argument for Anet to listen to you. 

It's also you conveniently forgetting this is still Beta. If Anet wants this to be DPS, they will make it so it is. 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Iavra.8510]

I would love to have a dedicated power shatter spec, it's my favorite playstyle in the game. But as it stands, i'm better off picking any other traitline over Virtuoso and have more shatter support there. The new shatters are worse than the core ones, easily countered, CDs are too long, and there are still no tools to actually stay at range when your opponent just decides to walk up to you.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Damage calculation is often not seen as the best case scenario in any situation. Where as actual gameplay you are probably not going to perform up to the damage calculations because of various reason like dodging a mechanic, cast cancel, boon uptime and downtime, various factors come in when it comes to PvE dps calculations. Using a golem dummy is a best case scenario situation which I don't understand why people use this as a benchmark on how a class performs in PvE.

What it is fact is they are nerfing damage when this spec offers no utilities for the party, and yet people still try to justify and defend ANET for poor decision making. 

Again just because a Chef cooks it doesn't mean all their product is good, this is a clear case of one and yet people still defend even though they are eating a plate of crap.

PvP wise spec is pretty much dead, its not to say top 1% of the 1% skilled Mesmers will try to make something out of it then some random idiot posting their video saying Virtuoso is fine when they cant even perform 1/3 of the skill level it requires or the amount of takes and edits.

People still riding the copium train is exactly how WoW died because they defended their Developers till the very end giving them benefit of the doubt thinking everything they do is correct. 

People who genuinely love the game will tell you how bad it is and what needs to improve, people who are just blindly defending is going to be the contributor to a dead game.

[Obtena.7952]

What is relevant isn't if damage is nerfed or not. It's what the damage you can achieved. Again, if Anet wants this to be a DPS spec, it will be a DPS spec. If they want to encourage people to play it, they will change it so it's more appealing ... and as a DPS spec, that's REALLY easy to do. What that DPS will be remains to be seen when EoD is launched. People are conveniently ignoring game history here just to pile on the Virtuoso hate. Not gonna work. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

Its not rocket science, damage before the initial nerfs was X now that all the numbers got nerfed you obviously wont get higher then what it was because numbers got nerfed...what the actual hell are people smoking these days. Benchmark was 41k congrats everything that damage got a 5% damage reduction and you still expect to pull higher then 41k....?

AND yes I am not ignoring game history on how much Mesmers got nerfed consistently in 90% of the patch history...I don't know if I'm the one with reading problems or what.

[Obtena.7952]

35 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Its not rocket science, damage before the initial nerfs was X now that all the numbers got nerfed you obviously wont get higher then what it was because numbers got nerfed...what the actual hell are people smoking these days. Benchmark was 41k congrats everything that damage got a 5% damage reduction and you still expect to pull higher then 41k....?

 

Again, it's not about whether it got nerfs for not in beta; this is the time Anet is developing the spec. I'm not expecting it to pull anything ... because Anet didn't set the expectation for what it should pull in the first place ... that's just players inventing their own expectations. 

Anet simply said it was a DPS spec ... and while it's in beta, the complaint that the spec doesn't do what Anet says WHEN IN BETA is pretty nonsensical because it's in development. What you should be doing is making sure that when you TEST it next Tuesday, you confirm the DPS you get. Not on a spreadsheet or with a calculator. IN GAME. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, it's not about whether it got nerfs for not in beta; this is the time Anet is developing the spec. I'm not expecting it to pull anything ... because Anet didn't set the expectation for what it should pull in the first place ... that's just players inventing their own expectations. 

Anet simply said it was a DPS spec ... and while it's in beta, the complaint that the spec doesn't do what Anet says WHEN IN BETA is pretty nonsensical because it's in development. What you should be doing is making sure that when you TEST it next Tuesday, you confirm the DPS you get. Not on a spreadsheet or with a calculator. IN GAME. 

Virtuoso along with willbender and harbinger had the most time to be revised, if this is what they came up then there is nothing much to look forward at release let alone this beta because simply the changes that they made were addressing nothing. 

[Obtena.7952]

11 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Virtuoso along with willbender and harbinger had the most time to be revised, if this is what they came up then there is nothing much to look forward at release let alone this beta because simply the changes that they made were addressing nothing. 

That makes no sense. We are in beta. They are giving us development materials to test. We have no indication how close to 'done' these specs are. Based on the number of changes revealed this time, they aren't close. Anet has shown they are willing to make changes to the specs if they are inline with how they want the specs to work. 

You are simply believing what you want to argue Virtuoso is 'wrong' because I think we already all know the direction Anet wants to take for Virtuoso is one you and others hate. That's being part of the noise I'm talking about. The noise gets ignored, and for good reason. It should be clear the direction this spec is going. If you aren't onboard with the process to affect it when released, I'm sure adding to the noise is exactly what you should continue to do.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That makes no sense. We are in beta. They are giving us development materials to test. Anet has show they are willing to make changes to the specs if they are inline with how they want the specs to work.

You are simply believing what you want to argue Virtuoso is 'wrong' because I think we already all know the direction Anet wants to take for Virtuoso is one you and others hate. That's being part of the noise I'm talking about. 

Part of the noise is you making pointless remarks like these, there are tons of feedbacks that were posted that didn't change their "vision" of what they wanted virtuoso to be but valid points. You are too busy finding comments to defend ANET devs instead of reading actual issues people post. 

This is where my direct conversation regarding this topic towards you will end, anything else will be ignored because its a on going pattern with you.

[Obtena.7952]

12 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

there are tons of feedbacks that were posted that didn't change their "vision" of what they wanted virtuoso to be but valid points. You are too busy finding comments to defend ANET devs instead of reading actual issues people post. 

You're right, there were TONS of feedback that didn't change their vision because the concept (vision, whatever you want to call it) was done. They weren't LOOKING for feedback on how trashy people think their concept was, so of course it was properly ignored. I told you all this in a previous thread. You ignored what I said then, just like you are now. Like I said ... it's all part of the noise.

Anyone with insight looked at Virtuoso and said "oh, Shatter DPS" and that's exactly what they confirmed they are going for, in fact reinforced by numerous changes this round. Yup, that's probably not great for competitive modes. I also told you that the skills are determined by the theme ... also something you mocked me for. The best part is that I'm not wrong. 

PS ... love the sig ... but it's going to be REALLY hard for you to 'crush me' if you are going to ignore my posts. Let me know how that works for you. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[AshkyLicious.4729]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's also you conveniently forgetting this is still Beta. If Anet wants this to be DPS, they will make it so it is. 

 

 

Hey Obtena! For how long have you played mesmer? Is it your main? Do you play it sometimes? Or are you the one who never played mesmer before Virtuoso got released during the beta? Be honest please.

Ive seen you comment alot on the mesmer threads lately writing stuff like "Anet knows what they are doing for Virt" etc.

If you know anything about the history of the mesmer class and Anet, you would know by now that this massive nerf that Anet prepared for Virt is just the start of trashing it even further into the oblivion.

Anet has never in these last years listened to any feedback coming from the mesmer community. That they didnt listen on a single feedback now for Virt isnt even surprising to me at this point. This is how Anet rolls when it comes to mesmer as a whole.

So if you truly believe that they will do justice to Virt, get prepared to get mighty dissapointed. And maybe then you'll finally understand all the frustration people are feeling towards Anet and how they treat this class...

Edited November 26, 2021 by AshkyLicious.4729

[mortrialus.3062]

23 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You're right, there were TONS of feedback that didn't change their vision because the concept (vision, whatever you want to call it) was done. They weren't LOOKING for feedback on how trashy people think their concept was, so of course it was properly ignored. I told you all this in a previous thread. You ignored what I said then, just like you are now. Like I said ... it's all part of the noise.

Anyone with insight looked at Virtuoso and said "oh, Shatter DPS" and that's exactly what they confirmed they are going for, in fact reinforced by numerous changes this round. Yup, that's probably not great for competitive modes. I also told you that the skills are determined by the theme ... also something you mocked me for. The best part is that I'm not wrong. 

PS ... love the sig ... but it's going to be REALLY hard for you to 'crush me' if you are going to ignore my posts. Let me know how that works for you. 

Every single mesmer build is a shatter build.  Even Mirage shatters off cooldown in PvE. 

[Levetty.1279]

They can claim its a DPS spec all they want but if its DPS was inline with other selfish DPS specs in beta 1 and then only change they did to it in beta 2 was to nerf its DPS then they quite obviously don't want it to be a DPS spec.

[Obtena.7952]

32 minutes ago, AshkyLicious.4729 said:

So if you truly believe that they will do justice to Virt

What I believe is that if Anet wants Virtuoso to be SOMETHING, they will make it that somehing ... because they do that ALL THE TIME. What I also believe is that Anet isn't going to make Virtuoso SOMETHING because I want it, or anyone else, because the concept is fixed. That's not debatable.

9 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

They can claim its a DPS spec all they want but if its DPS was inline with other selfish DPS specs in beta 1 and then only change they did to it in beta 2 was to nerf its DPS then they quite obviously don't want it to be a DPS spec.

That makes no sense because there is still lots of time for Anet to make Virtuoso whatever they want it to be before EoD release and even after .. .because we see them do that all the time. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[mortrialus.3062]

29 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

What I believe is that if Anet wants Virtuoso to be SOMETHING, they will make it that somehing ... because they do that ALL THE TIME. What I also believe is that Anet isn't going to make Virtuoso SOMETHING because I want it, or anyone else, because the concept is fixed. That's not debatable.

That makes no sense because there is still lots of time for Anet to make Virtuoso whatever they want it to be before EoD release and even after .. .because we see them do that all the time. 

This is also ignoring CMC's deranged hatred of Mesmer in general which has been on full blast since he joined the balance team.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

This is also ignoring CMC's deranged hatred of Mesmer in general which has been on full blast since he joined the balance team.

Well it's not, because whatever you want to call it, it's the reality. There is a constant theme here ... people not liking things about Virtuoso ignoring reality. I mean, if you believe how Anet treats Mesmer is the result of them hating the class, why are you even playing it? How can anyone that believes such a thing ever believe Mesmer can be good? How can anyone that believes that demonstrate they have hope by posting in the mesmer forum? I don't believe you think that at all. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[mortrialus.3062]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well it's not, because whatever you want to call it, it's the reality. There is a constant theme here ... people not liking things about Virtuoso ignoring reality. I mean, if you believe how Anet treats Mesmer is the result of them hating the class, why are you even playing it? 

I don't.  I've basically quit the game.  Every time I poke my head back in it reinforces that decision. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[AshkyLicious.4729]

45 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

What I believe is that if Anet wants Virtuoso to be SOMETHING, they will make it that somehing ... because they do that ALL THE TIME. What I also believe is that Anet isn't going to make Virtuoso SOMETHING because I want it, or anyone else, because the concept is fixed. That's not debatable.

That makes no sense because there is still lots of time for Anet to make Virtuoso whatever they want it to be before EoD release and even after .. .because we see them do that all the time. 

So this is your reply to my previous post? 😂 Out of everything I wrote... Wow! Talk about ignoring the whole post. But I guess you dont have that much to say since you obviously have no experience in mesmers and the history of how Anet treats this class.

And for concepts being fixed and Anet not changing them after what people wants... well look at the other elites and all their changes they recieved for next weeks Beta. They actually LISTENED to the feedbacks players gave them for the other specs, and improved the specs alot. Stop spreading lies in your arguments, that just makes you look bad in every single way.

Will not go into any further discussion with you, cuz as other peeps has already said in the previous posts, you're an obvious troll in the mesmer thread.

Edited November 26, 2021 by AshkyLicious.4729

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, AshkyLicious.4729 said:

So this is your reply to my previous post? 😂 Out of everything I wrote... Wow! Talk about ignoring the whole post.

Because most of the post was irrelevant to the discussion. What I play, how much, when, what I wear when I play it, the colour of my mouse ... doesn't matter. None of that changes the truth of what I've said here or in the past. 

I looked at the other elites results from the latest reveal ... concepts FULLY intact. Appears you don't understand the difference between the concept and the design. Concept wasn't going to change. For all those people telling Anet to 'start over' and throw out their concepts ... didn't happen ONCE. So no, I am paying attention. I do see Anet listens to the feedback they got, as long as it was in the scope of the changes they were willing to make and preserve the concept. 

Again, don't pretend people with Virtuoso hate were showering Anet with all this awesome feedback about how Anet should scrap Virtuoso and start over and ignore PVE in its design and blah blah blah. There was not awesome about it ... because Anet wasn't looking for that kind of feedback. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Veprovina.4876]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Because most of the post was irrelevant to the discussion.

Also known as cherry picking...

[Levetty.1279]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That makes no sense

The dps was fine, they nerfed the dps. If they wanted it to be a dps class why remove the dps?

 

Only thing that doesn't make sense here is you constantly licking anets boot and the fact you think math is a lie.

[Zenith.7301]

22 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

The dps was fine, they nerfed the dps. If they wanted it to be a dps class why remove the dps?

 

Only thing that doesn't make sense here is you constantly licking anets boot and the fact you think math is a lie.

 

People somehow always fall for and let this troll you're replying to take over every single thread he participates in. Just look at his posting history since the forums have existed. He shows up in a thread parroting the opposite position and then takes over the thread as people fall for the bait and start an endless back and forth with him.

[AshkyLicious.4729]

On 11/26/2021 at 10:15 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Because most of the post was irrelevant to the discussion. What I play, how much, when, what I wear when I play it, the colour of my mouse ... doesn't matter. None of that changes the truth of what I've said here or in the past. 

I looked at the other elites results from the latest reveal ... concepts FULLY intact. Appears you don't understand the difference between the concept and the design. Concept wasn't going to change. For all those people telling Anet to 'start over' and throw out their concepts ... didn't happen ONCE. So no, I am paying attention. I do see Anet listens to the feedback they got, as long as it was in the scope of the changes they were willing to make and preserve the concept. 

Again, don't pretend people with Virtuoso hate were showering Anet with all this awesome feedback about how Anet should scrap Virtuoso and start over and ignore PVE in its design and blah blah blah. There was not awesome about it ... because Anet wasn't looking for that kind of feedback. 

Hahahahhaha you're just too funny, atleast I'll give you that! 😂 Keep what you're wearing to yourself! Cuz your fashion sense is probably as bad as your knowledge in mesmers, concept and design. Cheers!

Edited November 29, 2021 by AshkyLicious.4729

[Salt Mode.3780]

Thats why I always just go "ending my direct messages towards you regarding this topic" or somewhere along the lines. That way if that person knows how to read they will know that whatever it decides to post will be ignored because I already ended the conversation with that person.

There is a difference between running away from confrontation vs ending a endless loop of nonsense. As you know that jester always need to make the last post, which ironically makes that person look like an idiot posting to themselves for themselves to read.

 

[Obtena.7952]

7 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

The dps was fine, they nerfed the dps. If they wanted it to be a dps class why remove the dps?

Maybe because they didn't want that amount of DPS to originate from the place they took it from? Likely, they won't ever tell us the real reason, but they have done things like that before. What I know is that if Anet wants something to be DPS, they can make it DPS, however they decide to do it, however much they want it to be. There isn't a reason to not believe them; they change classes all the time to make them do things they want them to do ... even too often IMO. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Obtena.7952