Catalyst update for beta 4.

[Kain Francois.4328]

3 minutes ago, Mattmatt.4962 said:

Not a problem anymore with the change made to the F5, it remains in the attunement it got casted.

aka, F5 in fire, swap to Water, leap, get fire aura (basic combo) and water aura.(catalyst minor trait)

And yes, you do get both auras (tested with Dagger 3earth onto a fire field)

There is no Water Aura.

Also the fields have a limited duration (5s?) on a limiting cooldown (15s?), making it a VERY tight duration to actually get the aura by the time you manage to switch elements and leap finisher.

Your options here are to go Fire or Air then swap to fire, in order to get an aura from leap.

[The Great Al.2546]

13 minutes ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

Lack of finishers on Hammer., and most of them having high CD. Despite Catalyst literally being the "Combo Field"-spec, its weapon appears to lack synergy with its own mechanic.

One really odd design of Hammer is the lack of access to Auras, despite some of Catalyst traits literally relying on Auras. Our one element with access to a Leap (Water).... just so happens to also be the combo field without an aura.

 Not sure I understand. I thought any combo for Catalyst resulted in an aura?

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by The Great Al.2546

[Kain Francois.4328]

9 minutes ago, The Great Al.2546 said:

 Not sure I understand. I thought any combo for Catalyst resulted in an aura?

 

 

The trait which generates auras has a 10s cd.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Kain Francois.4328

[Mattmatt.4962]

i heard it's 10cs PER ATTUNEMENT, cant confirm myself tho

 

also regarding your previous-previous message, the 15cd on the F5 is per attunement. So assuming you can generate energy fast enough it should be fine. Since hammer doesnt have built in field, the rotation is not strict, the only restriction is "Swap to water after any F5 usage", meaning you have actually 3 fields on 15sec each to play with.

Considering base rotation of ele is ~10sec, you just need to generate "1F5 worth of energy" per 10sec (2F5 actually if you also want the water field for sustain reason)

 

PS: 5sec duration on the F5 seems pretty long to me, you can almost use your finisher of 2 different attunement LOL

Edited November 27, 2021 by Mattmatt.4962

[AzuritaBlues.3206]

25 minutes ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

There is no Water Aura.

Also the fields have a limited duration (5s?) on a limiting cooldown (15s?), making it a VERY tight duration to actually get the aura by the time you manage to switch elements and leap finisher.

Your options here are to go Fire or Air then swap to fire, in order to get an aura from leap.

but there's frost aura, which you get by comboing when attuned to water.

the fields are 5sec duration and 5sec cooldown in PvE by the time of this Beta, as stated by cmc.

in PvP is 15sec cooldown, which can indeed get in the way of hammer combos, but we'll see for sure during this beta.

5seconds duration is the same as most of staff's fields and we can still confortably combo them while swapping attunements

 

 

 

[AzuritaBlues.3206]

8 minutes ago, Mattmatt.4962 said:

i heard it's 10cs PER ATTUNEMENT, cant confirm myself tho

it is.

[Jski.6180]

It seems fine the F5 update is well beyond any ones wildest dreams for an update for sure. Hammer updates seem ok will have to play with it to get the full ideal of them. The agment updates seem cool too. My fear is the elite can be used to "torll" better with off hand foces a double obiscity skin maybe a bit much.

I am just not so sure on the lack of more on combos and what i wish anet could do is let other ppl who combo your F5 as an cata to have more added effects. Catas feels like a self combo class more then a group combo class not realty being true to the name of Catalyst.

I would also like to point out the amount of boon support cata is getting vs what tempest has (more like the lack of what tempest has) and the anty dmg mitigation (un-blockables and quickness on some level) that weaver lacks. As well as just the power creep we see moving away from the core ele. Cata looks like its going to be a core ele +9.

[Avatara.1042]

13 hours ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

Swapping elements doesn't make something Weaver.

No kitten...which is why said every 3-4 seconds, which you are forced to do.

[Avatara.1042]

Hammer 3 is melee only, which means Hammer is melee only 😞

Edited November 28, 2021 by Avatara.1042

[Lynx.9058]

PLEASE increase the duration on hammer 3.  5 seconds is not enough, and forces you to rush through each atunement.  A single knockback/down or stun, or any kind of movement requirement during a particular fight, will ruin your hammer 3 setups.  I'd like to be able to use more than one ability per atunement before having to switch to the next one to keep that hammer 3 circle going.

[Kain Francois.4328]

11 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

PLEASE increase the duration on hammer 3.  5 seconds is not enough, and forces you to rush through each atunement.  A single knockback/down or stun, or any kind of movement requirement during a particular fight, will ruin your hammer 3 setups.  I'd like to be able to use more than one ability per atunement before having to switch to the next one to keep that hammer 3 circle going.

This.

Why does Hammer 3 even give buffs, if the whole thing is on such a short duration?
I'd rather they reduce the damage of that thing and give it a longer duration. It already takes up too much of the Catalyst's damage proportion anyway (I think someone said 30%?), and I'd rather see the other hammer skills shine too.

[Serephen.3420]

8 hours ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

This.

Why does Hammer 3 even give buffs, if the whole thing is on such a short duration?
I'd rather they reduce the damage of that thing and give it a longer duration. It already takes up too much of the Catalyst's damage proportion anyway (I think someone said 30%?), and I'd rather see the other hammer skills shine too.

Personally I would remove the buffs tweak the damage and spread it to the other hammer skills instead. Hammer 3 mostly just looks nice though at least now it has the purpose of being a finisher.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Like others have said, the orb totally ruins the gameplay feel of the weapon. You have this slow, deliberate weapon that strikes hard so the skills themeselves already take longer to fire off and should be more impactful. And you're also trying to set up combos and build a bunch of auras. The orbs on the other hand have so much dps worked into them that it's basically like nah, cycle through your orbs and maybe get off one other skill in each attunement before you swap out again. Like it's hard to even use the hammer as the weapon it's supposed to be because it has a utility/mechanic baked into it that forces you to use it instad of the rest of the skills. People say the orbs are a weaver thing and thats true, it fits the fast playstyle of sword and fast attunement cd's more and generally you'd be able to use a lot more sword skills with the orb than you would hammer.

Idk, i think it totally butchers the weapon if I'm being honest and overshadows every other skill on the weapon. The overall changes to the class will make catalyst more viable for sure, but the orb is like the worst thing you can possible put on a weapon. It's basically a class mechanic or an ammo based utility as opposed to a weapon skill, and it's strength makes it necessary to focus on. I mean it gives me mad conjured weapon vibes. Totally clunky useless things, but because two of them have like 2 strong skills you are forced to awkwardly fit it into your skill rotation to the point where it feels more like a gimmick than an actual useful feature. 

[Hemdale.1520]

I would really like to see a mechanic with orbs that allows a single orb to “build up” in a sense. Maybe orbs can just be applied automatically when switching attunements and with no duration as long as you are within that orbs attunement but the duration as well as the orbs values are increased the more you say burn, chill, bleed, or crit an enemy - depending on the attunement. The timed duration that was built up would then start diminishing upon switching to another attunement. This way you can choose to sort of specialize in maybe just one or two attunements if you’d like or try swapping within all of them but with lower values and durations.

Also with the orbs being applied automatically it would free up each #3 for something hopefully a little more interesting.

Sure there’s likely issues with this idea but just a thought.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Hem.7514

[Serephen.3420]

So while thinking more about qorking on hammer I would actually change the the 3 skill on each attunment to instead be an aura appropriate to each and take all the damage from that and give it to the skills that need it. They could still make a trait that affects transmutation of auras to be a finisher of sorts(if they feel the need).

 

As for the orbs they could put the animations onto the utilities and could even have them flip over to those rotating orbs. Each giving the utility buff instead of what it did on hammer. 

 

There are a number of ways they could work with those as well to make it more interesting. 

 

Hoping they see some of these ideas at least, even if they opt for something else. O think it would make hammer alot more fun and flexible and a truly unique weapon.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

On 11/25/2021 at 12:44 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Elemental Epitome

You finish on the Jade Sphere field with either of the two finishers available on each element of the Hammer. The changes mean more frequent Aura applications and a wider range of finishing options as well. 

I thought hammer only has like 2 finishers on it across the board?

Now 3 with grand finale

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

I thought hammer only has like 2 finishers on it across the board?

Now 3 with grand finale

I thought it was two. It doesn't matter. The original point was that there was more than zero since the poster was being unclear about not being able to get auras in water. 

[Obtena.7952]

On 11/27/2021 at 1:26 AM, Avatara.1042 said:

...

...

...

HAMMER 3.  Please, follow along.  Each spinning orb from Hammer 3 has a 5 second duration.  To use them fully you need to swap every 3-4 seconds so that you can refresh ALL your spinning orbs for maximum damage.

This issue has been talked about constantly on these forums...

Just because you can spam a skill to fully benefit from it does not mean you should or have to. It's not an issue at all. It's OPTIONAL to play this way in the way you are describing. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Avatara.1042]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Just because you can spam a skill to fully benefit from it does not mean you should or have to. It's not an issue at all. It's OPTIONAL to play this way in the way you are describing. 

Pathetic.  Why do you even bother posting here if your logic around balance is so ridiculous?

[Flori.2194]

5 minutes ago, Avatara.1042 said:

Pathetic.  Why do you even bother posting here if your logic around balance is so ridiculous?

First: Obtena is a known troll who provides nothing but provocation.

 

Second: GUYS, WE FIXED THE BALANCING! EVERYONE JUST PRESS 1 and we're good to go!

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Avatara.1042 said:

Pathetic.  Why do you even bother posting here if your logic around balance is so ridiculous?

That makes no sense. I'm not the one pretending you have to play a spec by constantly swapping attunements just because one skill can be spammed on CD.  Again, there isn't anything that's an issue with swapping attunements and using the skills on CD, ESPECAILLY if you are playing other ele specs. 

Maybe ask yourself the same question if your understanding of how to play the game is so ridiculous. Maybe you just aren't suited to playing Ele. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[ScottBroChill.3254]

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That makes no sense. I'm not the one pretending you have to play a spec by constantly swapping attunements just because one skill can be spammed on CD.  Again, there isn't anything that's an issue with swapping attunements and using the skills on CD, ESPECAILLY if you are playing other ele specs. 

Maybe ask yourself the same question if your understanding of how to play the game is so ridiculous. Maybe you just aren't suited to playing Ele. 

I feel like the issue people are having with your opinion is that you are enabling the idea of bad balance because not playing optimally works in open world when that's a really bad way of justifying the bad state of mechanics and balance. Balance is about making things on equal footing and to provide a fun experience in the process but the argument that it can handle trash mobs no matter how you play is just a bad argument. 

The reason is that for catalyst to perform well it NEEDS to fast swap and spam skill 3 because of how much strength is in it. The rest of the hammer is balanced around skill 3 being a staple and being powerful. The rest of the skills are then brought down to a lower level to compensate for that. They could rework skill 3 to something else and redistribute the power to the rest of the skills and I don't think I'm the only one who would enjoy that more, and then we could actually use the hammer for damage. And i mean the hammer as in swinging the weapon and casting spells by swinging it. The orbs may be on the hammer skill bar, but they are totally unrelated to actually using the hammer as a weapon/spell conduit. 

[Samurai.9567]

I strongly agree with the sentiment that most of the hammer skills should all affect the same range across the elements.  600 is a good range, and fire already works that way.  Earth, Air, and Water should also generally affect targets at 600 range.  As it is, if you are getting damaged and need to swap to Water for better healing abilities, suddenly your attacks are only melee range.  Same with Earth.  But you need to swap between attunements because your skill 3 only builds up 1 ball per element.  This build screams "SWAP ATTUNEMENTS", but punishes you for doing so by having different ranges for each element's abilities!

 

Elementalist was my first class in GW2, and one of my favorites before now (along with Necro), but I find the Catalyst as it currently is just incredibly frustrating and infuriating.

[Aedil.1296]

On 11/29/2021 at 12:36 AM, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

Like others have said, the orb totally ruins the gameplay feel of the weapon. You have this slow, deliberate weapon that strikes hard so the skills themeselves already take longer to fire off and should be more impactful. And you're also trying to set up combos and build a bunch of auras. The orbs on the other hand have so much dps worked into them that it's basically like nah, cycle through your orbs and maybe get off one other skill in each attunement before you swap out again. Like it's hard to even use the hammer as the weapon it's supposed to be because it has a utility/mechanic baked into it that forces you to use it instad of the rest of the skills. People say the orbs are a weaver thing and thats true, it fits the fast playstyle of sword and fast attunement cd's more and generally you'd be able to use a lot more sword skills with the orb than you would hammer.

Idk, i think it totally butchers the weapon if I'm being honest and overshadows every other skill on the weapon. The overall changes to the class will make catalyst more viable for sure, but the orb is like the worst thing you can possible put on a weapon. It's basically a class mechanic or an ammo based utility as opposed to a weapon skill, and it's strength makes it necessary to focus on. I mean it gives me mad conjured weapon vibes. Totally clunky useless things, but because two of them have like 2 strong skills you are forced to awkwardly fit it into your skill rotation to the point where it feels more like a gimmick than an actual useful feature. 

You explained this perfectly thanks for that. I really hope they will read your post. Maybe you should post this also in the feedback thread or the bugs threads as some people advised Anet reads only the bugs thread (I dunno if it's true) 

[Aedil.1296]

I believe Anet needs to decide which mechanic to build Catalyst on. If its the jade sphere, focus on it and make it a very good option. If it's the orbs, remove the sphere and focus on that mechanic. The two together creates a conflicting, clunky, and confused class which feels very underperforming compared to other classes. Especially now on the verge of an expansion release and many new people trying the game, knowing how many people like the elemental mage theme i would make catalyst a strong and easy to use class as the necro (for a change). This would benefit who plays Ele already and new players. If anyone wants piano play there is still weaver. By the way the orb mechanic I feel it would fit weaver so well! 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Aedil.1296