Catalyst Hammer 3 cripples the specialisation

[Serephen.3420]

10 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

I'd rather have a longer duration on the orbs and remove the finale skill so you can keep refreshing it.  I'd like to be a walking elemental storm, thanks.

You'd still have your elemental storm swirling around you but it would make hammer less of a gimmicky hit box reliant weapon for a change. Which would help it in multiple game modes and increase versatility without changing too much.

The longer you keep the orbs out the more damage could be loaded into the unleash skill.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Serephen.3420

[Puck.3697]

On 1/11/2022 at 4:00 PM, BobbyT.7192 said:

Another solution would also allow it to refresh with your jade sphere, either on cast or being within it AoE for a certain duration. That way it would give you a little room to remain in your attunement and not rush through your bonuses

 

how about a Way to retain both the orbs and free the 3 slot up.

the Orbs Automatically Spawn upon Weapon Swap, When u swap attunements it consumes the first attunements Orbs and your 2 following attacks are Multi-Element. For example Frost into Fire creates Frostfire which Chills + burns the Enemy. Fire into Air, your next 2 strikes Shoot a Fire tornado behind them scorching the ground, Frost into Air, Creates a Hailstorm. Frost into Earth, Makes Earth Shatter for Cleave Damage, Earth into Fire Turns the floor volcanic around Impact. Air into Earth, Shoots Lumps of Rock at the target upon Strikes.

they could make the Orb a Actual rotational Mechanic involving the attunements to give Catalyst more then just a F5.

 

[Jski.6180]

Its a shame you could not have a "support" version of the orb where you could put it on one of your team mates to give them the buff of the orb and have an dps effect though use of them as your center of aoe.

[Bunny.9834]

Hammer is the problem. 

They should've given the Catalyst a Rifle and made this spec a single target long range spec and make that orb thing the f5 mechanic. 

The new change to Hammer 3 now really wants you to be on Melee... and be another Downstate Meme Class. 

[Puck.3697]

On 1/21/2022 at 6:59 AM, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

Hammer is the problem. 

They should've given the Catalyst a Rifle and made this spec a single target long range spec and make that orb thing the f5 mechanic. 

The new change to Hammer 3 now really wants you to be on Melee... and be another Downstate Meme Class. 

Cause being a single target rifle specc did deadeye justice...

Dragonhunters longbow got seen outside of PvP meme builds. 

Stop pressuming ranged = automatically good. 

Even if we got rifle. It's unlikely we would have any competitive builds actually using the thing.

You have to stand in melee to get boons, so your gonna be in melee range with a rifle but even squishier cause you would lose more active sustain in the trade off. 

Which would ensure you were a even worse dead downstate meme 

The only decency ranged has been to most builds and proffessions is hand kiting. Litterally your asking for a RP specc if your asking for ranged speccs at this point in time. 

The only way we are gonna get good ranged options is if Anet back down and actually change things up to make a ranged playstyle viable. 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Scolix.4879]

I was hoping that after Virtuoso the elementalist would too get some spec that had more fun simpler rotation and mechanics but instead its the same o same o again which is why i never got into elementalist in the first place the whole profession has always felt to me like i have to pianist in order to do mediocre damage while at the same time with some other class i can just press 1 or 2 buttons and go brrrrrrrr with same result.

[Puck.3697]

21 minutes ago, Scolix.4879 said:

I was hoping that after Virtuoso the elementalist would too get some spec that had more fun simpler rotation and mechanics but instead its the same o same o again which is why i never got into elementalist in the first place the whole profession has always felt to me like i have to pianist in order to do mediocre damage while at the same time with some other class i can just press 1 or 2 buttons and go brrrrrrrr with same result.

Imho I think it's important elementalist doesn't get simplified. I didn't rly like the fact they did this to virtuoso. 

And it isn't that in elitist or whatever. I just have a strong dislike to speccs moving the proffession difficulty so erratically, and mesmers are very unhappy with virtuoso. Because it's simplistic design just makes it dull and lack options. 

It's important the game provides for all, for those who want easy to play options or those that want harder to play options. 

Simplifying elementalist would remove that second option for players during catalysts meta period and would cancel half the elementalist mains when it shifts towards weaver. 

Elementalist gets its "friendlyness" from another aspect. It's forgiving on DPS losses due to rotational mess ups. 

Aslong as with weaver you can remember the element your susposed to use next and get weave self correct you will do atleast majority of the damage your suspose. It's DPS doesn't plummet for playing incorrectly like some other options such as dragonhunter or soulbeast 

Weavers harder on muscle memory, but trust me it's not as difficult as you think to perform decently with it. 

The difficulty is in the sustain issues, hence why you saw the ele forums spring alive when the barrier bug came in. The issue most have is surviving mechanics with the proffession realistically.

Remember weaver too has a 25k+ auto attack build and has a super simple Condi tempest build which can do over 30k on large hit box's. 

Power weaver is also a 6/7 button rotation for simplistic gameplay. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Sunshine.5014]

On 1/22/2022 at 9:12 AM, Daddy.8125 said:

Cause being a single target rifle specc did deadeye justice...

Dragonhunters longbow got seen outside of PvP meme builds. 

Stop pressuming ranged = automatically good. 

DE is everywhere in WvW, and is very oppressive to play against.

DH is everywhere in WvW too. You can't really say it's only PvP. In fact, there are more DH in WvW than in PvP.

[Puck.3697]

6 minutes ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

DE is everywhere in WvW, and is very oppressive to play against.

DH is everywhere in WvW too. You can't really say it's only PvP. In fact, there are more DH in WvW than in PvP.

Yes. It's used in WvWvW but that's 1 of 3 modes. 

Longbow isn't used in PvE however and the build that uses longbow in spvp is hinged on a meme rune and is rarely seen past ranked gameplay against people who don't know how to not charge into traps. 

Just because it saw some success doesn't mean let's repeat the same thing so it can fail in 75% of the games content again. 

Something should defintly be functioning solidly beyond only 1 game mode. 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Sunshine.5014]

19 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Yes. It's used in WvWvW but that's 1 of 3 modes. 

Longbow isn't used in PvE however and the build that uses longbow in spvp is hinged on a meme rune and is rarely seen past ranked gameplay against people who don't know how to not charge into traps. 

Just because it saw some success doesn't mean let's repeat the same thing so it can fail in 75% of the games content again. 

Something should defintly be functioning solidly beyond only 1 game mode. 

 

Well, for sure Catalyst will only be used in PvE. It lacks all the defense options Weaver has for PvP, and it's even worse for support than Tempest for WvW due to the energy mechanics.

Catalyst is a Fractal/Raid spec. In general PvE tagging, Tempest is also ahead. In solo PvE, Trailblazer Weaver is ahead. Only in some raid (that doesn't move a lot), Catalyst has some use with Quickness.

So it's only useful in like 15% of the game content anyway.

[Puck.3697]

1 minute ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Well, for sure Catalyst will only be used in PvE. It lacks all the defense options Weaver has for PvP, and it's even worse for support than Tempest for WvW due to the energy mechanics.

Catalyst is a Fractal/Raid spec. In general PvE tagging, Tempest is also ahead. In solo PvE, Trailblazer Weaver is ahead. Only in some raid (that doesn't move a lot), Catalyst has some use with Quickness.

So it's only useful in like 15% of the game content anyway.

That isn't down to being not ranged tho which was my orginal statement, nothing about being melee is the reason it isn't functioning in PvP or WvWvW.

Im just saying ranged weapons don't have much of a great track record as proof that being ranged isn't a instant fix to the situation 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Ausar.9542]

On 11/25/2021 at 8:36 PM, Avatara.1042 said:

What was the plan for the Catalyst?  Why have the Weaver's constant attunement swaps and the Tempest's auras?  Why not give it its own identity?

I believe they had something else in mind with the class mechanic but ran out of time and dropped it on the hammer instead.  Al speculation of course. But these elite specs all seem rushed. 

[Avatara.1042]

It does seems like a collection of leftover mechanics.  NCSoft is entirely to blame for this.

[Lynx.9058]

On 1/23/2022 at 5:57 AM, Scolix.4879 said:

I was hoping that after Virtuoso the elementalist would too get some spec that had more fun simpler rotation and mechanics but instead its the same o same o again which is why i never got into elementalist in the first place the whole profession has always felt to me like i have to pianist in order to do mediocre damage while at the same time with some other class i can just press 1 or 2 buttons and go brrrrrrrr with same result.

Speaking of virtuoso, what if catalyst's hammer 3 orbs were removed from the weapon, and became part of the class mechanic, functioning like the virtuoso's psionic blades?

Every time you change atunement, you gain an elemental orb (for the atunement you're going into).  These orbs float around you, and persist out of combat.  The orbs deal some minimal damage to enemies around you every second or so, and you use F5 and fire off all accumulated orbs at the target, creating the jade sphere effect at the target's location based on your atunement at the time of use.

That sounds, to me, like a much better mechanical basis for both the F5 and H3 abilities than what we've been given.

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

Speaking of virtuoso, what if catalyst's hammer 3 orbs were removed from the weapon, and became part of the class mechanic, functioning like the virtuoso's psionic blades?

Every time you change atunement, you gain an elemental orb (for the atunement you're going into).  These orbs float around you, and persist out of combat.  The orbs deal some minimal damage to enemies around you every second or so, and you use F5 and fire off all accumulated orbs at the target, creating the jade sphere effect at the target's location based on your atunement at the time of use.

That sounds, to me, like a much better mechanical basis for both the F5 and H3 abilities than what we've been given.

i actually gave a Simular Idea

instead of the orbs being on hammer 3.

Why not have the Each time you swap from 1 attunement to another, U gain 2 Orb of the attunement you swapped to on your next Attunement Swap, it allows you to Fire the Orbs at a 900 Range distance for different affects depending on the Element type the orb is and the element attunement u cast it from.

So for example. if u go from water to Fire, Frostfire bolt.

Fire to Earth, Scorch the land between you and the target.

Air into Earth, Fire Surrounding Enviroment at the target.

Etc etc

 

[Lynx.9058]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

i actually gave a Simular Idea

instead of the orbs being on hammer 3.

Why not have the Each time you swap from 1 attunement to another, U gain 2 Orb of the attunement you swapped to on your next Attunement Swap, it allows you to Fire the Orbs at a 900 Range distance for different affects depending on the Element type the orb is and the element attunement u cast it from.

So for example. if u go from water to Fire, Frostfire bolt.

Fire to Earth, Scorch the land between you and the target.

Air into Earth, Fire Surrounding Enviroment at the target.

Etc etc

 

That sounds a little to much like weaver to me.

[Puck.3697]

22 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

That sounds a little to much like weaver to me.

Likely, but spinning Projectiles around the target if completely passive would be very boring as a mechanic, generally mechanics should have a level of player interaction. Considering currently.... Catalyst Doesnt have any proper defintion from feeling almost exactly like core does.

Jade sphere defintly needs a way to lock To the Attunement you cast it in so many that would work out.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Dadnir.5038]

On 1/23/2022 at 12:57 PM, Scolix.4879 said:

I was hoping that after Virtuoso the elementalist would too get some spec that had more fun simpler rotation and mechanics but instead its the same o same o again which is why i never got into elementalist in the first place the whole profession has always felt to me like i have to pianist in order to do mediocre damage while at the same time with some other class i can just press 1 or 2 buttons and go brrrrrrrr with same result.

The only pressure you got on using complicated rotations with elementalist come from your peers. Elementalist can dish out decent damages with very simple rotations by camping a single attunment (I'm pretty sure you can still dish out around 30k dps all while pouring might stacks like rain on your allies by camping fire).

[scerevisiae.1972]

Hammer is like a collection of things that are individualy cool but don't work at all when all thrown together.

It doesn't work.

600 range is a very awkward space  to be in in the first place if there aren't mobility skills/ports to make it work but the worst thing is making 2/3rds of the kit melee when there is already dagger / sword in that space.

Huge design fail.

 

[Avatara.1042]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:59 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

The only pressure you got on using complicated rotations with elementalist come from your peers. Elementalist can dish out decent damages with very simple rotations by camping a single attunment (I'm pretty sure you can still dish out around 30k dps all while pouring might stacks like rain on your allies by camping fire).

Uh, no...

[Noodle Ant.1605]

1 hour ago, Avatara.1042 said:

Uh, no...

to be fair, i did stumble across this in another discussion, seems pretty simple and does decent enough damage imo

unless you meant in a wvw/pvp perspective?

[Avatara.1042]

1 hour ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

to be fair, i did stumble across this in another discussion, seems pretty simple and does decent enough damage imo

unless you meant in a wvw/pvp perspective?

I meant more of a non-raid environment, but that is still pretty crazy.  I knew the build be was referring to, but did not think the dps could reach that high.  Alacrity is just too good.

[Avatara.1042]

So this was moved to the ele forums to die.  I expect cata to be horrible.

[giblets.6401]

On 2/2/2022 at 8:19 PM, Avatara.1042 said:

So this was moved to the ele forums to die.  I expect cata to be horrible.

Catalyst IS horrible. It was so bad in beta I asked for a refund on my EOD pre-purchase.

From what I have heard from my Ele friends, it was a good decision.

[epothos.4831]

It's ruining the Catalyst for me. Hammer is really cool in every other way and the animations are really satisfying and I love the concept. But Hammer 3 is so miserable to manage, and the fact that it's a massive portion of our DPS makes the hammer another hectic keyboarding smashing Weaver playstyle. Haven't really enjoyed Catalyst with non-hammer weapons either.

 

The Jade Spheres do not invoke exciting gameplay but maybe it will grow on me. So far it just feels like if you are in any mobile situation like PvP, WvW, and most end-game encounters, then Jade Spheres becomes difficult or impossible to use and then you are literally just running around as Core Ele.