Diovid.9506 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 Shift signet was already quite useful and now we have this update: Shift Signet: Now plays a visual effect of the signet icon above the player when activated. Is now instant cast. Now breaks stuns when cast. Now removes two conditions from both you and your mech when cast. Additional passive effect added: All boons applied to you are also applied to your Mech. Move speed passive now also applies to your Mech. To summarize, the new passive is now: Increase your movement speed Increase your Mech's movement speed All boons applied to you are also applied to your Mech The active skill is now: Instant cast You and your mech shadowstep to the target location. Break stun Remove 2 conditions from you and your Mech Now, just to be clear I like most of these additions. Giving the movement speed also to your Mech? Great. Making it instant cast and a stun break? Should've been the case already. Remove 2 conditions from you and your Mech? A bit much given all the other things it does but I'll allow it. My problem is specifically centered on this: All boons applied to you are also applied to your Mech. This alone turns Shift Signet from very useful to 'why would you even play a Mechanist without this?'. If something gives this much power and utility, it should be re-evaluated. In fact, given the fact that it feels mendatory now I would even go so far as to say that the boon sharing aspect should be a minor trait, rather than a skill. Do you agree that it is a bit much? If so, how would you suggest Anet fixes this? If not, why not? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeTect.5918 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 I think its only too much if you are using the trait that keeps alive even after using the active. However i also think it should be in a minor (or major) trait and not in a signet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) Honestly, I think they intentionally overloaded that signet to mask an underlying problem. Which is their terrible AI coding. Rangers know the problem for years already, anet can't code AI pets really well when it comes to pathing and behaviour. And that problem was also apparent for mechanist now (because for some unknown reason anet decided to give us a pet spec even if they know that they are really not good at this stuff). Shift signet can be used as a work around for these problems by allowing you to relocate your mech once per cooldown with it, giving you some more control over where the mech is positioned. Now with overloading the signet that much that it becomes basically mandatory, the underlying problems of the pet AI will go less noticed or just brushed off with "just use shift signet to put the mech where you need it to be". It's not dumb, I have to admit that, but kinda shifty (see what I did there?) to just force us to take the work around instead of tackling a problem directly. Edited November 25, 2021 by Kodama.6453 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 We did get better control over the mech tho. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 They ought to put the stun break back on Force Signet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThrakathNar.4537 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said: They ought to put the stun break back on Force Signet. I think it makes more sense to have the stun break on Shift Signet (since force signet really needs a cast time because it does CC), it's all the other stuff that should be put somewhere else. Either move the condi cleanse to the heal signet, or move the boon transfer to the elite signet (or both). It just doesn't make sense to give so many passive and active effects to the same skill. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) Well, I'm almost convinced signets (all of them) should be overloaded in this game because if they aren't, people just camp the passive. If the active isn't a meaningful choice ... then there isn't a point for it to be a skill on the bar in the first place. That could be part of the decision to shift here. Edited November 25, 2021 by Obtena.7952 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenash.1245 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said: Honestly, I think they intentionally overloaded that signet to mask an underlying problem. Which is their terrible AI coding. Rangers know the problem for years already, anet can't code AI pets really well when it comes to pathing and behaviour. And that problem was also apparent for mechanist now (because for some unknown reason anet decided to give us a pet spec even if they know that they are really not good at this stuff). Shift signet can be used as a work around for these problems by allowing you to relocate your mech once per cooldown with it, giving you some more control over where the mech is positioned. Now with overloading the signet that much that it becomes basically mandatory, the underlying problems of the pet AI will go less noticed or just brushed off with "just use shift signet to put the mech where you need it to be". It's not dumb, I have to admit that, but kinda shifty (see what I did there?) to just force us to take the work around instead of tackling a problem directly. Yeah that's what I'm assuming too, since it already felt it was mandatory to take if you're going for support mechanist and need to reposition your mech in some raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matoro.9708 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 I really don't know why they didn't add a ground target "Stay There" command, which is then forgotten about when asking the pet to come back. That way the golem can basically be a portable turret. Oh wait... that's why they didn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalima.5490 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 where do you get all this info btw? The main problem I saw with the mech was the way stats were allocated, because it rather ended up locking down your trait choice very heavily since the rows were specifically designed to work with one of 3 sets of stats... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drascious.5714 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Because we lose toolbelt, if the signets aren't somewhat powerful they will never see use and we will just take kits in every slot. Engineer already has the problem that our core utility skills outside of kits are pretty lacklustre. There's alot of reliance on the toolbelts with many utility skills that makes them worth taking and now we lose toolbelt with mechanist the signets do need to be able to properly compete with our kits. I do agree however that the boon share should be on the elite skill as it's passive does nothing for the mech right now 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovid.9506 Posted November 26, 2021 Author Share Posted November 26, 2021 (edited) In response to some of your reactions: my problem is not with Mechanist Signets in general but with Shift Signet in particular. All of its active and passive effects together make it so strong and generally applicable that it is drowning out other options, including the other Signets. As Psykewne suggested this could (to some degree at least) be solved by moving the boon sharing to the elite or as I suggested by moving the boon sharing to a minor trait. That makes taking other utilities a bit more of a choice instead of Shift Signet. Edited November 26, 2021 by Diovid.9506 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenash.1245 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Diovid.9506 said: In response to some of your reactions: my problem is not with Mechanist Signets in general but with Shift Signet in particular. All of its active and passive effects together make it so strong and generally applicable that it is drowning out other options, including the other Signets. As Psykewne suggested this could (to some degree at least) be solved by moving the boon sharing to the elite or as I suggested by moving the boon sharing to a minor trait. That makes taking other utilities a bit more of a choice instead of Shift Signet. Might be a stupid take on my part, but considering there's more then a few elite specs that have at max one of their ulity skills used while the rest of someones slots get filled by base skills. I don't personally think it's a bad thing to have an overloaded skill for an elite spec since it incentivizes people to actually use that specs skills, I mean hell during the last beta it seemed like more then a few people just ended up kit swapping instead of using the signets. That all being said shift signet does have a lot packed into it, don't think anyone can deny that. Edited November 26, 2021 by Xenash.1245 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianna.3092 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Xenash.1245 said: Might be a stupid take on my part, but considering there's more then a few elite specs that have at max one of their ulity skills used while the rest of someones slots get filled by base skills. I don't personally think it's a bad thing to have an overloaded skill for an elite spec since it incentivizes people to actually use that specs skills, I mean hell during the last beta it seemed like more then a few people just ended up kit swapping instead of using the signets. That all being said shift signet does have a lot packed into it, don't think anyone can deny that. they should move the boon copying to the elite signet (since it currently doesn't have any effect on the pet) and keep the rest of the shift signet the same since all the other stuff (except maybe the condi cleanse) should have been baseline anyways... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swizzle.7982 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 They should get rid of the speed buff. I mean, who cares about a 25% increase in speed... we have mounts now. All it does it make the golem do this weird hover/hop animation that looks garbage. Make the passive copy boons, make the active a condi removing shadow step. Simple. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Swizzle.7982 said: They should get rid of the speed buff. I mean, who cares about a 25% increase in speed... we have mounts now. All it does it make the golem do this weird hover/hop animation that looks garbage. Make the passive copy boons, make the active a condi removing shadow step. Simple. It's an increase in movement speed for the mech as well. You can't mount while in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swizzle.7982 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: It's an increase in movement speed for the mech as well. You can't mount while in combat. Yeah, but it still makes no sense. The active ability is a teleport. Both moving 25% faster and teleporting moves the mech faster... so one of them is kinda redundant. The mech also has either ranged abilities or gap closers (as does the engi using mace) so it's not like the move speed is valuable anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisii.8317 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 I am extremely happy with this change. This is what I suggested before as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swizzle.7982 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Quote All boons applied to you are also applied to your Mech Why not just make this baseline for how the mech works? Literally everyone is going to take this signet for this effect. So making it baseline changes nothing - everything still has this effect. The only difference is that people now have a choice, do they want a speed boost and shadow step, or do they want something else? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakiaris.2798 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Swizzle.7982 said: Why not just make this baseline for how the mech works? Literally everyone is going to take this signet for this effect. So making it baseline changes nothing - everything still has this effect. The only difference is that people now have a choice, do they want a speed boost and shadow step, or do they want something else? Honestly I think they could do 2 things to balance it some one of which was posted in another thread. Make the mech have set stats and just use a amulet slot similiar to pvp that you can select stats for your mech. This would give static numbers that you could build around and also open up a lot of options for building the mech. The other would be move that from shift signet and instead put it on the minior trait so that you don't have to take it everywhere. There's a lot of changes though so I don't expect to see anything like that done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovid.9506 Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 So... the premise of this thread still stands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Diovid.9506 said: So... the premise of this thread still stands... Still pretty sure Anet made the Signet mandatory on purpose to mask the underlying problem of the mech, which is pathing/positioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontrolle.3514 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 this signet doesnt change the fact that the mechanist is pure garbage tier spec. Useless in WvW, PvP and there are better things in PVE then an AI class too. The only thing thats somehow usefull might be the alacrity. so i tried it now 5 hours in pve and WvW. Its just a joke, a pretty bad one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Tbh, shift is a must even without boonshare. The ability to instantly reposition your mech lets you deal with the spastic AI. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never.6014 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 I think it could lose condition cleanse and still be plenty valuable. The speed boost and repositioning is so useful, especially considering pet AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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