Standardisation of all boons

[Mell.4873]

I believe Arena Net is on to something with each class's elite specialisation providing a unique boon to either 5 or 10 man group 

I will say if possible they 10 man boons should provide something extra in 5 man content.

 

With the boon meta in mind, you would truly have a sort of trinity with dps, boons, heals being required for high level content.

[Kodama.6453]

8 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I will say if possible they 10 man boons should provide something extra in 5 man content.

Heavily disagree with this.

It is actually the opposite and they should change specs which can put out boons for 10 people to just give them to 5 instead. Many people don't currently care about the new elite specs being able to provide alacrity, simply because renegade and mirage are able to provide it to 10 people instead of just 5.

Which means that you need just 1 mirage or renegade to ensure the alacrity for a full raid squad, while you would need 2 of the other alacrity providers.

5 man content like fractals are currently the only environment you can justify to bring these new alacrity providers, since they can cover the whole group like a renegade or mirage could. But if you give these 2 "something extra" for running 5 man content, then we are back at renegade and mirage being the only desired choices for this role.

Mirage and renegade are currently holding back other classes when it comes to be an alacrity support. If they would give alacrity to 5 instead if 10, then I think this would lead to a way healthier competition for these slots and more group diversity in general.

[Mell.4873]

5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Heavily disagree with this.

It is actually the opposite and they should change specs which can put out boons for 10 people to just give them to 5 instead. Many people don't currently care about the new elite specs being able to provide alacrity, simply because renegade and mirage are able to provide it to 10 people instead of just 5.

Which means that you need just 1 mirage or renegade to ensure the alacrity for a full raid squad, while you would need 2 of the other alacrity providers.

5 man content like fractals are currently the only environment you can justify to bring these new alacrity providers, since they can cover the whole group like a renegade or mirage could. But if you give these 2 "something extra" for running 5 man content, then we are back at renegade and mirage being the only desired choices for this role.

Mirage and renegade are currently holding back other classes when it comes to be an alacrity support. If they would give alacrity to 5 instead if 10, then I think this would lead to a way healthier competition for these slots and more group diversity in general.

I believe the new elite specs are only providing 5 alacrity and quickness

[Kodama.6453]

9 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I believe the new elite specs are only providing 5 alacrity and quickness

Exactly my point, the new elite specs are just providing alacrity or quickness for 5 people, while renegade and mirage can provide it for 10.

Hence why the new elite specs will most likely not see alot of play as alacrity sources, since it is just almost always better to use renegades or mirages for that, since they can provide alacrity for twice as many people.

That's why renegade and mirage should be brought down to just provide alacrity to 5 allies as well.

[The Boz.2038]

I think *all* classes need access to something like Spotter, availability of these should overlap slightly, and the banner bonuses need to be changed into this, too.

[Dadnir.5038]

17 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

With the boon meta in mind, you would truly have a sort of trinity with dps, boons, heals being required for high level content.

Hasn't this been the case since HoT release?

 

2 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I think *all* classes need access to something like Spotter, availability of these should overlap slightly, and the banner bonuses need to be changed into this, too.

If I'm not wrong, only mesmer and thief don't. So Concentration for mesmer and Expertise for thief? Which trait do you want sacrificed for this?

3 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Exactly my point, the new elite specs are just providing alacrity or quickness for 5 people, while renegade and mirage can provide it for 10.

The issue is that making it hard to keep up a boons encourage class stacking because it's more efficient to have 0 character with boons duration than have 1 or 2 with boon duration (We've got a "full mesmer" meta at some point for this exact reason) while giving the boons to many professions encourage "elitism" as there will always be a "best at" profession.

Boz is not wrong when saying that there should be more trait/effect like Spotter/banner but at the same time he is wrong as there are stats that are less valued than other. If you're unlucky and get squad wide toughness you got no value, If you're lucky and got squad wide precision your value shot up. Stat value is imbalanced as you get more dividende out of some stats. I mean, when was the last time you've seen someone asking a warrior to bring banner of tactic or banner of defense? When was the last time you've seen a guardian being asked to take strength in numbers (I can't believe that they even bothered to nerfed this trait to normalized it)?

[The Boz.2038]

47 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Which trait do you want sacrificed for this?

Something of the base class, so all specs have access to it. 

Elementalist, Mesmer, Thief, Necromancer don't have those. Warrior arguably now would have two (and I'd be in favor of eliminating Empower Allies in that case).

47 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

he is wrong as there are stats that are less valued than other

And those stats (Toughness, Vitality, mainly, but Healing Power and Concentration arguably) would be not included. And the traits + banners would, amongst themselves, have an overlap, so not "only some" would have "the good ones". 

Want team-wide extra precision? Get a ranger to bring the trait, or get a warrior to bring the banner. Want extra power? Get an elementalist to bring, like, Burning Power or whatever, or get a warrior to bring the banner, or whatever. Extra Ferocity? Thief or revenant can get you covered for that. Etc.

Edited November 30, 2021 by The Boz.2038
extra quote

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Elementalist, Mesmer, Thief, Necromancer don't have those.

Necromancer have both Vampiric aura and Last rites.

[The Boz.2038]

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Necromancer have both Vampiric aura and Last rites.

I wasn't counting those, but okay, I guess, Vamp Aura can count. Last Rites is on the Toughness/Vitality stat boost level, so...

[Janitsu.6284]

20 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Mirage and renegade are currently holding back other classes when it comes to be an alacrity support. If they would give alacrity to 5 instead if 10, then I think this would lead to a way healthier competition for these slots and more group diversity in general.

The other classes being... Chrono? Who can provide a boon neither of these classes can consistently grant. Coincidentally, that class kept Renegade out of a job due to being such a good spec that groups wanted at least one of them, preferably two :).

[Kodama.6453]

59 minutes ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

The other classes being... Chrono? Who can provide a boon neither of these classes can consistently grant. Coincidentally, that class kept Renegade out of a job due to being such a good spec that groups wanted at least one of them, preferably two :).

I am including the new e-specs here, which have 3 new classes to give alacrity to 5 allies: specter, willbender and mechanist.