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Siege Turtle Feedback Thread [Merged]


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So, I had a lot of fun on the turtle laying siege to Lake Doric tonight.

Gunner is definitely the more fun of the two positions. It does get frustrating if your driver stops moving and you feel the lack of ammunition.

I didn't find it as hard to land ground slams as I thought based on reading early feedback. It felt good to hit those annoying Mantle Mesmers. I was also surprised by how quickly the ground slam took down the Jade Cannon's shields. What are normally a slightly irritating event was handled quite easily with the Turtle.

The turtle did become problematic once we moved on to the Jade cannon up by Fort Evennia. Without room to move, ammunition reduces too far, and the sliding makes it too hard to stay on the narrow area in front of the stairs.

We tested out my Lily of Elon pass, to see what would happen when the passenger didn't have the pass. We thought maybe the turtle would take us both to Crystal Oasis, but he would be booted out of the Lily of Elon. Turns out he was left in Lake Doric, instead.

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I don't understand all the complaints about a co-op mount not being fun solo. It's a co-op mount.

What is it for? Is there specific content in EoD that requires the turtle?   Having the cannons limited to the second player feels really restrictive and makes using the mount pretty boring.

after a short test I think its useless for me (solo player most of the time). Unfortunately no way to use the guns ūüėē

So I don't hate the turtle. Its an interesting mount that looks decent and the general concept is cool. That being said, the drifting when you turn is way over tuned. It spins a lot and completely loses momentum unless you just tap to turn. The ammo regen through momentum is a cool idea but isn't really going to do you much unless you spend all your time running in a straight line. The momentum skill for the second pilot is a cool addition and adds usefulness to having a passenger. However, the cannons should not be tied only to the passenger. Instead,  it would feel better a solo driver could use the cannons but a passenger could use them better. Like a 25% attack, or range, or reduced cooldowns on it, or something for passenger that makes them beneficial but not mandatory. But other than those few things I'm excited to see another mount in the game. 

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So the move for ammo thing does end up a little weird. What if there were two attack skills? The outright damage skill could still function where ammo increases as the mount moves. The second skill could be a more CC oriented one, perhaps a knockback away from the turtle. It would have the opposite, and gain more ammunition the slower the turtle is going.

That way you'd have dynamic play of "protect the turtle we're getting swarmed" alternating with "we're free! rain down destruction!"

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The camera is too low. If you zoom in close, all you'll see is the Turtle butt.
Could raise the camera a little bit and when you zoom in, to look behind the saddle?
Another thing, sometimes I want to turn Left and the Turtle just turns to the Right.
I mean, sometimes it's clear that Left is the shortest turn, apparently not for the Turtle.
And when you just want to turn still, the Turtle walks forward making a U-Turn.
But yeah, I kinda love to just hold Space and then Skill1 mid air. Looks so cool! xD

Edited by jojorne.2175
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I'm another "tried it solo, wasn't fun" player. And yes, I know it's meant to be used by a team, but ... if it's not fun for me, why would I ever summon it?

 

I'm sure we'll be required to use it at some point during the expansion and the LS that will come after it. Nobody likes being "required" or blocked until they do something they don't find fun. I'm not sure you can "fix" the turtle, it is what it is, so please go through the expansion and remove or at least reduce the "need turtle power to pass" moments.

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I see no purpose for the Turtle at all. Mastery system might fix that. But as for now: useless in terms of traveling and fighing compared to some of the other mounts we have and the combat system we have. But hey: At least they are a bit better than picking up a rock or a twig from the ground. That was something ArenaNet advertised back in the days, and it's completely useless too.

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3 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

You're not a glass half full kind of person?  Not even a glass half empty?  More like a someone-drank-half-the-glass-with-their-disgusting-mouth kind of person?

I don't know.  Can I get some more hints?  It's a really hard question to answer considering I can't read your head.

Oh, oh, are you a there-isn't-a-glass-anymore-because-some-idiot-exploded-it kind of person?

 

 

Edit:

On topic, I remember the slew of threads complaining about how limited the skyscale was when it was released.

Now there's threads about how it is so good it's mandatory.

People are making snap judgements with little to no information.

 

There's a difference here in that the Skyscale wasn't being used to try to sell an expansion to us the way the Siege Turtle is.

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Here are some points that for me needs a little improvement on the turtle mount
-- movement on land when moving forward is good,, however,, it's not as smooth when turning on the sides.
-- movement on water is not as easy to control too.
-- turtle mount under water is like a submarine,, it would look better if the jets are facing horizontal ( both in front and in the back) instead of it facing vertical (like a space ship)

--canon does not work under water, it only works on land. Perhaps it is better to add missiles that would work under water while the canon works on land.

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First I would like to say that this is one of the most entertaining and whimsical mounts you have ever designed. I love it!

Just a couple of things, the slippery drifting I'm sure is to make the mount feel heavier and have more momentum, and perhaps provide some challenge. It is rather difficult to control though, I even drift through the air in odd directions and end up totally missing the target i'm trying to fly to, the slightest turn makes the turtle's momentum shift as if you press the drift button on  your roller beetle. A more gradual drift could be more functional and less frustrating.

 

The only other comment I'd have is to suggest making the turtle fully controllable in solo mode even if you need to give a bonus to damage or some other benefit to give dual riding added incentive. Maybe that's a mastery you can earn later, I just found myself unable to enjoy the turtle fully a lot off the time because I didn't have a friend to operate the cannons and boost the whole time. 

 

So to sum up I'd say it would be nice if you'd consider making it somewhat easier to control and give access to full controls as a solo player because a lot of people won't always be able to have another player to ride and operate the cannons, giving another sort of incentive for dual riding like maybe higher damage. 

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1 hour ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

I see no purpose for the Turtle at all. Mastery system might fix that. But as for now: useless in terms of traveling and fighing compared to some of the other mounts we have and the combat system we have. But hey: At least they are a bit better than picking up a rock or a twig from the ground. That was something ArenaNet advertised back in the days, and it's completely useless too.

It is probabely a dps increase for the average player.

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I like the turtle but it feels strange using it as a solo player.

 

Perhaps allowing the solo players to unlock a second attack using the siege cannon attack via masteries. This attack can act as a discount (like the normal mount engage) or drivers can continue to use the slam on repeat in combat.

 

The driver role doesn't feel fun by not being able to use the cannons

 

Using some of the mount masteries (like stealth) causes a hard crash to desktop

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Seige Turtle tag

 

Just like comm tag, can there be a tag for players who are not in a party and are willing to open a party for mount? Like a small seige turtle tag should be shown in map when the player (not in a party) is mounted up (in seige turtle) and presses a key or opens a party tag (like mentor tag).

 

Would make it easy to join a party and tag up on the mount, instead of shouting like a maniac in middle of the map hoping for a party memeber.

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Overall, the Siege Turtle felt very clunky, inefficient, and high maintenance compared to its usefulness, both with a second player and without. Without seeing what masteries this mount will get, I can't make a full assessment, but here's my breakdown from fiddling with what we had access to today.

Pros:
- The turtle of another player becomes transparent once it gets close to/on top of my player model. Not sure if this was done intentionally to address the issue of huge mounts blocking objectives, but it seemed like something that might help - I'd still like a show/hide player mounts setting, but you tried.
- It looks like a turtle/tortoise. I know this is a pretty low bar, but at least you didn't stick horns, wings, or human lips on it so I consider that a win.
- The tech is clamped to the shell, not drilled into it. I know it's a digital animal, but it's always more satisfying for me when a mount doesn't look like its situation is miserable, so gold star here.


Cons:
- Mobility was hell: Relying on a second player to temporarily increase my ability to make basic turns felt awkward and neither I nor my gunner enjoyed that level of maintenance while simply trying to walk up a twisty path. This was also reflected in the near-total lack of directional control while using the jump jets.
- Sucks to swim: Sinking like a rock could be made more bearable if you could then maneuver easier/faster along the floor of watery areas, but you can't. It has all the drawbacks of land travel and none of the benefits of water.
- Too much co-op: If we're seriously going to be raising this mount from an egg, I'd like to know why our bond is so weak that we need a second person on board to get the turtle to make basic turns. Additionally, not being able to use the cannons just feels ridiculous. Nobody was dreaming of having a sentient siege weapon just to drive it - they wanted the boomsticks. A siege mode should be added so that a solo driver can plunk their turtle down and switch seats to become their own gunner, switching back as needed (having two people would still be more efficient, but at least this way you'd have full functionality available to you).
- Animations are goofed: More often than not, characters are pressing buttons in places on the control panel where there aren't buttons. Additionally, there only seems to be one idle animation (the reclining); it might be nice to at least have one more - maybe the turtle does an excited little stomping/bouncing dance or withdraws into its shell from time to time?
- Goofy physics: In addition to the ice-skating nature of the turtle's mobility on land (???), I also noticed that the jet animations don't lend a sense of weight to the turtle at all. It has these big booming footsteps but it just slowly, daintily floats back to earth when the jets let it down. The jets should probably cut a short distance above the ground with a satisfying thunk and maybe a subtle puff of debris under the mount.
- Ugly Jade Tech: This is most likely just personal preference, but I don't like the style of the control panel and seating. Looks very Asuran and boxy compared to the very natural-looking animal it's attached to. I doubt this is going to change at all, but hopefully future skins opt for more flowing shapes.
- Slam attack shoots what looks like jade particles: Why? Does the turt have jade breath or something? Will future skins change the color of this effect?

Edited by AgentMoore.9453
Forgot a single apostrophe!
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I love the look of the siege turtle.  I love the bright green, I love the rockets on the feet. I love floating along in it. It made running Dragons Stand (for only my second time) fairly easy. When I played the meta there, I did not use the Turtle, I played Catalyst.
 

Swimming is not quite as fun because you sink and then get stuck. For example, I ended up trapped at the pit at the bottom of lions arch lake. But in Frostgorge Sound, I was having the same problem. I sank to the bottom, the bottom didn’t rise gradually to a side but rather was a sharp plunge in, so there was no way to get back out without dismounting. 
 

Turtle seems to have a bug when killing enemies when roaming. In Dragons Stand, targeting some Icebrood and their Ice formations, I had trouble with the gun not firing even when it was charged. It worked okay for a while though, so the issue doesn’t seem to be that I was solo. 
 

Later I followed a commander to fight the World Boss Svanir Shaman using turtles. For most of the fight, it was telling me that the Shaman was immune to my Turtle canon. I am not sure whether or not the guy who was riding my turtle was able to shoot with any useful effect. Eventually I dismounted and fought as a Catalyst. 

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Used it only a few mins in LA - have other stuff to do. (Completing the Return-to-Achievements lol.)

Does not seem too interesting. I wonder why we even needed a new mount? Maybe just to full in some content where you can use a mastery line. (Fishing also does seem weird.)

WvW .... does not allow the turtle - seems okay. This game mode isn't made for this.

But there should be a game mode where the turtle is actually used as siege - PvP-like map would be nice.

And the PvE ... some meta/events. There it might be interesting to use it - if the mechanics of the event also require this. We'll have ot wait for the new maps and the expansion.

Edited by Luthan.5236
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14 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I think that the real issue, which is hidden by the solo/coop discussion is that it's not being fun for the driver. And the mount's owners cannot choose which seat they will be in - they will always be drivers, and thus lose out on fun. As such, who would want to be the one actually summoning that mount, instead of hoping someone else might do that?

That's exactly it. As it's not much fun to drive I certainly won't be using this mount on a day to day basis.

I would probably be happy enough gunning if there are meta events that require it but the driver has a dull old time and fighting with Slam feels awful slow and clunky.

Attack.

Wait 4.5 second for cooldown.

Attack.

Wait 4.5 second for cooldown.

Attack.

Dead mob.

Wait for the big lump of a turtle to get off the ground so you can move on.

Reminded me of the snooze fest of playing a paladin with a two-handed weapon in WoW classic.

I will hatch my siege turtle, level up the Masteries (the best part will be the health pool increase for the other mounts) and then never use it unless it's absolutely required in EoD and I hope it isn't.

Edited by Pifil.5193
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So far I see a lot of potential for Siege Turtle races during community events. That said, I am not fond of the way the Siege Turtle fades out if you get close to it. It is really jarring. Please either remove it, or give us an option to turn it off.

 

Also, please add a classic Siege Turtle skin, with old cannon!

Also, also, random idea: Allow us to customise the weaponry on the turtle in the future.

Edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512
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There needs to be a way for a solo player to use the siege weapons. Otherwise 90% of the time it's not a siege turtle, it's just a turtle.

 

On top of that the turtle does nothing better than other mounts. Solo, it might not even be as good as the warclaw.

 

The only plus is that at least this means I won't feel the need to buy cool skins for it. 

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I feel this the siege was badly advertise, to start with it isnt even a turtle is a tortoise.....for those who dont know turtles are semi or totally acuatic, they dont have feet they have paddles....tortoise are semi acuatic or totally landbase, the semi acuatic are the small fresh water ones, their shells are kind of flat for buyoancy....lanf ones have stump lile legs, and big shells....this is clearly a siege tortoise not turtle....which explains the lack of water adjusment....it isnt suppose to swim in the first place.....

 

I enjoy the mount, but it feels better when you are controlling the cannons....i dont know if it will be a mastery....but some rifle like guns would be useful....like real world tanks use as secondary weapons....big cannon with aoe and burst for the gunner, smallwr rifle like....maybe with bleeds....for driver....it will help the dps and fun factor.

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It's ok. I play mostly solo so it feels kinda lame to no be able to use the cannons. maybe you can have a swap seat button to the driver when solo can use cannons but the mount stands still. To be honest the movement of the mount dosnt feel great anyway, I'd rather use any of my other mounts over this for movement. I feel just swapping between the raptor and springer are a better over all feel than running the turtle for just moving threw a map. I like the idea for the mount, but for me it misses the mark. If the quest for this mount is long and drawn out like the griffon and skyscale it would feel bad as the owner to never get to use the best feature of it ( the guns).

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13 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I think that the real issue, which is hidden by the solo/coop discussion is that it's not being fun for the driver. And the mount's owners cannot choose which seat they will be in - they will always be drivers, and thus lose out on fun. As such, who would want to be the one actually summoning that mount, instead of hoping someone else might do that?

I absolutely think there’s room for feedback in many areas. I had fun as a driver, but yes, gunner is much more fun and it’d be nice if driver had more options.

My reaction was entirely about multiple posts whose only feedback was disappointment that it wasn’t fun as a solo mount.

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Only tried this mount solo and my impression this mount at least in Bjora Marches are too strong. I can kill Svanir mobs just by jumping and slam down at the same time avoid a large part of ground based damage by evades. It is hard to know if that will be the same in the new maps when EoD be finally released, but as for this Beta mount seem to do a large part of damage even for solo things in OW maps.

What I dislike is the too strong green colour which is the same as Jade Mechanist summon uses. I don't think this is a very good visual content when JM fire their laser beams at a boss and have this mounts canon driver to fire their laster beams at the same time. Add to that JM rather large shield that ccan cover an area and we will have more problem to see what is going on during larger fights.

In water I would probably use Skimmer as it is faster to get around both below surface and above then this mount (if one doesn't use the hover effect of jumping).

Just to add that I play with medium animation and most settings set to low for Graphical options including disabled Post-processing (changes tint at highest setting an have other impact on colour), low on shade and shadow setting which also changes how enviroment looks which have an impact on contrast from other surrounding colours.

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