Berserker on Mechanist = Wasted Power stat

[Epyon.7436]

From the EoD Beta update

 

"The trait Mech Frame: Variable Mass Distributor no longer increases the percentage of Power inherited by the Mech. Instead, it causes the Mech to inherit 100% of your Precision and Ferocity attribute values."

 

Sorry I don't have legendary gear, so basically all my Berserker gear will be kinda sub optimal now? What is the design thought process on this, kinda weird a power build doesn't allow your mech to inherit power.  Nerf on the mech by wasting equipment stats is sad.

 

So go Mace or go home? and /gg on kits I guess with mace being the so called "right playstyle". There goes build diversity

Edited November 30, 2021 by Epyon.7436

[Kodama.6453]

This change struck me as really weird.

Let's do some math.... they reduced the base power of the mech from 1350 to 1000 and changed it so you can't give the mech more than 25% of your power.

Assuming roughly 2600 power in a full berserker setup, the total power of the mech after this change will be:

0,25 * 2600 + 1000 = 1650

This is just 300 power more than it had in base stats in the last beta.... Hell, full berserker gear mechanist in last beta gave the mech a total power of 2650!

This is such a massive loss of damage for power builds.... I think power builds on it might actually become absolutely unviable with this iteration.

But well, that was to be expected. Anet is nerfing AI pet based specs the moment they become slightly viable. You shouldn't expect mechanist to be allowed to deal any damage in the future. This is how it will keep going for the spec from now on, nerfs over nerfs until they have to rework the spec from the ground because they failed to remember that they don't want AI pets to be good in their game.

Edit: I shouldn't have done the math, now I am depressed. A full berserker mechanist will just have a mech with 1650 power.... which is less than some ranger pets which don't require any stat investment from the ranger. For example, drakes have a base of 1868 power.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[hash.8462]

Well... not only power, also precision has been nerfed, expecially if you are not using Variable Mass Distributor.

With Variable Mass Distributor:
Before: 1374(mech base) + 50% of 1960 (zerk secondary stat) = 2354 = 69%
Now: 0(mech base) + 100% of 1960 (zerk secondary stat) = 1960 = 50%

Without Variable Mass Distributor:
Before: 1374(mech base) + 25% of 1960 (zerk secondary stat) = 1864 = 46%
Now: 0(mech base) + 0% of 1960 (zerk secondary stat) = 0 = 5%

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by hash.8462

[Dakiaris.2798]

I feel like they had a knee jerk reaction with how oppressive the bot was in the first beta so they went way in the opposite direction.

 

As it stands now I'm doing around 40% less dps than I was last beta.... What they should have done was shift the power from the mech to the engie a bit more because as it stands the mace is meh and the mech is meh for power builds.

 

For support it seems to be very very good though... Arguably better than scrapper at support and it's still easy to get your alac to 100% uptime while also providing more reliable regen and stuff... Though the utter lack of heal when using medkit is complete torture I feel like they should bring back the toolbelt skill just for your heal skill.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I just did a test.  In full berserker gear, the old mech DPS build (3-3-1) now does 2.7k DPS by itself.  Considering it was 6k before, this is a pretty heavy nerf.  

In full Viper, I'm doing 3.8k alone with the mech instead of 7k.

 

[Xanadrine.4352]

This was totally heavy handed, taking a chainsaw to it when a scalpel was needed 

[Dakiaris.2798]

Knee jerk reaction levels of nerfs and honestly I don't see it changing by launch. The little 10% damage boost to the mace isn't enough to offset the heavy handed nerf to the mech.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Dakiaris.2798

[hash.8462]

LOL, not only damage, since all base stats including toughness have been nerfed, the mech is not even able to tank for you as you always have higher defence than him so you are always the target when fighting a boss!    🤣

[Dakiaris.2798]

12 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

LOL, not only damage, since all base stats including toughness have been nerfed, the mech is not even able to tank for you as you always have higher defence than him so you are always the target when fighting a boss!    🤣

I honestly don't know how they took something that felt really good previous beta and just broke it to the point of feeling really kittening bad this expansion.... They simply had to lower the base power a little and it would have been fine.

 

*edit*
I should at least give one good thing about it. The pet commands do make it feel better since you can control it better... The removal of jade siphon though is actually noticable since it fully lost that ability. Rocket fist being on the mace 3 needs to be made to be all weapon 3s or weapon 2.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Dakiaris.2798

[Orack.4825]

1 hour ago, hash.8462 said:

LOL, not only damage, since all base stats including toughness have been nerfed, the mech is not even able to tank for you as you always have higher defence than him so you are always the target when fighting a boss!    🤣

So far the only way I find to solo hot champ was half zealot half diviner + monk (pack probably better but I use what I they give us).
Invention 1-3-2 & Alchemy 2-2-2 (using the heal elixir).

Ton of boon, with the perma protection/fury/alac/25might/regen/vigor, enough heal to keep me and mech full.
That do the work, lack a bit of CC but seem fine. Better not look closer to the dmg though..

[Obtena.7952]

Does anyone have like, actual data or are we just playing the 'screaming inside a bubble' game? What DPS are we talking about with the changes?

[Adrianna.3092]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Does anyone have like, actual data or are we just playing the 'screaming inside a bubble' game? What DPS are we talking about with the changes?

mech went from doing like 6-7k damage a hit to around 1-2k damage per hit... a HUGE nerf with basically no compensation for it... a typical Anet overreaction... it did need nerfed... but maybe not by that much...

oh and these numbers were from pvp... not sure what the damage was like in pve

Edited December 1, 2021 by Adrianna.3092

[Obtena.7952]

38 minutes ago, Adrianna.3092 said:

mech went from doing like 6-7k damage a hit to around 1-2k damage per hit... a HUGE nerf with basically no compensation for it... a typical Anet overreaction... it did need nerfed... but maybe not by that much...

oh and these numbers were from pvp... not sure what the damage was like in pve

Not asking about just the Mech ... I'm talking about DPS values for playing the spec, for PVE. Yup it got a nerf ... the question is how that affects the spec. The fact it got a nerf is not really relevant.  

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Nephalem.8921]

8 hours ago, Dakiaris.2798 said:

I feel like they had a knee jerk reaction with how oppressive the bot was in the first beta so they went way in the opposite direction.

 

As it stands now I'm doing around 40% less dps than I was last beta.... What they should have done was shift the power from the mech to the engie a bit more because as it stands the mace is meh and the mech is meh for power builds.

 

For support it seems to be very very good though... Arguably better than scrapper at support and it's still easy to get your alac to 100% uptime while also providing more reliable regen and stuff... Though the utter lack of heal when using medkit is complete torture I feel like they should bring back the toolbelt skill just for your heal skill.

It was opressive in lower leagues vs noobs. thats always the problem ai builds have. it wasnt even great vs good players, now its useless.

3 hours ago, Aznarb.6347 said:

So far the only way I find to solo hot champ was half zealot half diviner + monk (pack probably better but I use what I they give us).
Invention 1-3-2 & Alchemy 2-2-2 (using the heal elixir).

Ton of boon, with the perma protection/fury/alac/25might/regen/vigor, enough heal to keep me and mech full.
That do the work, lack a bit of CC but seem fine. Better not look closer to the dmg though..

You can solo almost all hot champs as full glass core engi. a solo build still needs to kill.

[Nephalem.8921]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not asking about just the Mech ... I'm talking about DPS values for playing the spec, for PVE. Yup it got a nerf ... the question is how that affects the spec. The fact it got a nerf is not really relevant.  

The spec is the mech. currently shift signet is hard to test because you cant give your mech boons in golem area. old build does about 2k dps less.

5k vs 7k golem dps with skill usage. no idea how the others are reaching sub 3k golem dps.

Power mech was a giant meme before and is still a meme. mace is still bad. why is it doing confusion? engi has no confu traits.

[Obtena.7952]

Sorry, I wasn't being clear ... I want to know what kind of DPS a mechanist SPD-focused build does. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Ooops.8694]

13 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not asking about just the Mech ... I'm talking about DPS values for playing the spec, for PVE. Yup it got a nerf ... the question is how that affects the spec. The fact it got a nerf is not really relevant.  

You can't even test it properly without employing an army of friends...

They changed the mech to inherit you stats but not your stat increases from boons (so there's no getting power for might on the engineer then getting more for might on the mech) and at the same time added a "copy every boon you get to mech"-function to shift signet.

But that effect does not trigger on boons in the test area. So either you get a bunch of people to provide the boons to do a realistic test or you're testing with a boonless mech that should have capped might/fury/quickness/alacrity.

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Ooops.8694 said:

You can't even test it properly without employing an army of friends...

They changed the mech to inherit you stats but not your stat increases from boons (so there's no getting power for might on the engineer then getting more for might on the mech) and at the same time added a "copy every boon you get to mech"-function to shift signet.

But that effect does not trigger on boons in the test area. So either you get a bunch of people to provide the boons to do a realistic test or you're testing with a boonless mech that should have capped might/fury/quickness/alacrity.

Regardless. People test their DPS on the Raid Golem all the time ... I'm asking if anyone did that for Mechanist.

[Nephalem.8921]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sorry, I wasn't being clear ... I want to know what kind of DPS a mechanist SPD-focused build does. 

39k with old setup. maybe more if a signet is worth it. the bigger problem is that it plays exactly like core condi. any elite cant drop below 34k anyways since that is core condi with 2 traitlines.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

39k with old setup. maybe more if a signet is worth it. the bigger problem is that it plays exactly like core condi. any elite cant drop below 34k anyways since that is core condi with 2 traitlines.

So, mechanist will be AT LEAST 34K DPS? So it's safe to say that if golem is 5-7K ... we are 39K? (I think that's what you mean when you say 39K old setup?)

If that's the case, the complaint of the OP seems a little over reactive. 

[Nephalem.8921]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So, mechanist will be AT LEAST 34K DPS? So it's safe to say that if golem is 5-7K ... we are 39K? (I think that's what you mean when you say 39K old setup?)

If that's the case, the complaint of the OP seems a little over reactive. 

yes the dps isnt the biggest problem. optimal pve play uses the same rotation we have for 6 years. currently it might be able to replace 1 kit but its far from a new gameplay experience for fractal / raid / strike players. Its just passive damage and maybe a passive signet you never press on top of your old rotation. Would be nice if mace could at least replace mh pistol. power mech is bomb 1 90% of the time with all the signets. Power herald is complex compared to that.

[Ooops.8694]

18 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Regardless. People test their DPS on the Raid Golem all the time ... I'm asking if anyone did that for Mechanist.

And I'm telling you it's pointless unless you get yourself a couple of friends who provide all the boons for your test.

Arc is not updated and the ingame message does not distinguish dps sources, so saying i'm doing for example 30k on the golem is useless. If you neither have precise number for the mech part of that dps nor know how it would behave fully buffed that's just random guessing.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Ooops.8694 said:

And I'm telling you it's pointless unless you get yourself a couple of friends who provide all the boons for your test.

Arc is not updated and the ingame message does not distinguish dps sources, so saying i'm doing for example 30k on the golem is useless. If you neither have precise number for the mech part of that dps nor know how it would behave fully buffed that's just random guessing.

True ... that's why I'm not asking what the DPS is for the Golem. I don't care. It's not relevant to me. 

[Nephalem.8921]

3 minutes ago, Ooops.8694 said:

And I'm telling you it's pointless unless you get yourself a couple of friends who provide all the boons for your test.

Arc is not updated and the ingame message does not distinguish dps sources, so saying i'm doing for example 30k on the golem is useless. If you neither have precise number for the mech part of that dps nor know how it would behave fully buffed that's just random guessing.

You could just not attack yourself and look at selfstats.

[hash.8462]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

If that's the case, the complaint of the OP seems a little over reactive. 

Well, the OP was talking about a power build (zerk gear), not condition.

His point is that power stat is only converted at 25% now, so it is almost wasted.