Virtuosos feedback thread for beta 4.

[Jables.4659]

On 12/2/2021 at 6:07 AM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

or they can wait 2s, and your only damaging skill does nothing, and then you die.

We both know that's not true.  This is typical for 90% of the 1v1s I've had as Virtuoso during this beta event.  Hybrid Virtuoso slaps.  The spec is garbage and lacks sustain, but it can handle most 1v1 matchups perfectly fine.  

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

42 minutes ago, Jables.4659 said:

We both know that's not true.  This is typical for 90% of the 1v1s I've had as Virtuoso during this beta event.  Hybrid Virtuoso slaps.  The spec is garbage and lacks sustain, but it can handle most 1v1 matchups perfectly fine.  

 

its funny how that video is vs a warrior which warrior are also in a crippled state, now try to 1 v 1 with ranger, engi, thief, or how about mirage, necro, rev, guard. Again just saying EoD specs cannot compete with the extremely nerfed state of HoT or PoF specs.

[Jables.4659]

1 minute ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

now try to 1 v 1 with ranger, engi, thief, or how about mirage, necro, rev, guard.

Ranger:

 

Thief:

 

I don't generally save 1v1s, but I've fought every class many times during the beta.  Mirages have been one of the easiest classes to fight on Virtuso.  Good thieves and Dragonhunters are the only matchups that feel like an uphill battle.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Lol first thing I look at is the name of the people you fight, bronze and no rank entering WvW. I will admit Mesmer including Virtuoso are newb stompers.

But even the 2nd video admitted that the thief didn't know what it was doing which clearly was the case based on how they dodge your attacks.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

Mesmer's always been a n00b stomper, and WvW isn't exactly the place to show how "balanced" or effective a class is... There are HUNDRED of WvW videos showing what classes are capable of. Look at all of Cellofrags ele one shot videos. Doesn't really paint the clearest picture. 

There are still too many trade offs for the spec compared to every other Mesmer and long range spec. 

[Jables.4659]

27 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Lol first thing I look at is the name of the people you fight, bronze and no rank entering WvW. I will admit Mesmer including Virtuoso are newb stompers.

But even the 2nd video admitted that the thief didn't know what it was doing which clearly was the case based on how they dodge your attacks.

 

19 minutes ago, MrAmputatoes.6031 said:

Mesmer's always been a n00b stomper, and WvW isn't exactly the place to show how "balanced" or effective a class is... There are HUNDRED of WvW videos showing what classes are capable of. Look at all of Cellofrags ele one shot videos. Doesn't really paint the clearest picture. 

There are still too many trade offs for the spec compared to every other Mesmer and long range spec. 

I did not say that Virtuoso is in a good place.  It isn't, and I want it to improve.  The original point was that 5 clone shatters create a more powerful effect with condition on shatter traits like Cry of Pain and Maim the Disillusioned, which is true.  The video was a response to a specific claim that enemies can just wait 2 seconds and then kill you, which is obviously not always the case.  Virtuoso is not as unplayable as people make it out to be.  Yes, Mesmer is and has always been a noob stomper, which means its still viable against 95% of the playerbase.  If we won't admit that Virtuoso isn't unplayable, Arenanet will never take our legitimate complaints seriously.  

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

If you are taking sharpening sorrow, you're gaining 6.4k expertise which is giving you 100% condi duration increase which is going to overly inflate all condi performance on Virtuoso. Its not unplayable, its just not worth playing. And the only thing that ANet hears is the praise that this class is getting from those who are only playing it for its visuals.
There are pages of feedback and they choose to up blade generation which wasn't even a main complaint to begin with. People wanted the condi traits to just be removed as its plays EXACTLY like power Virtuoso where Mirage is so transformative that Power and Condi have some place. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

So let me get this correct....another "power" spec being more effective as a condi hybrid or full condi spec....yup pretty standard to me.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Jables.4659]

4 minutes ago, MrAmputatoes.6031 said:

If you are taking sharpening sorrow, you're gaining 6.4k expertise which is giving you 100% condi duration increase which is going to overly inflate all condi performance on Virtuoso. Its not unplayable, its just not worth playing. And the only thing that ANet hears is the praise that this class is getting from those who are only playing it for its visuals.
There are pages of feedback and they choose to up blade generation which wasn't even a main complaint to begin with. People wanted the condi traits to just be removed as its plays EXACTLY like power Virtuoso where Mirage is so transformative that Power and Condi have some place. 

I am the person who initially reported that bug when the beta started.  I use the entire top row on Virtuoso. 

Blade generation was a legitimate concern.  Bloodsong was the only GM trait on Virtuoso that provided significant blade generation during the first beta, but it required you to run dagger, jagged, and a traited pistol.  It was a good change to give the other GM traits better blade generation, but there are a lot of other issues that still need to be resolved.

Dagger is useless, f4 block requires you to stow-cancel the skill before the block finishes if you want to stealth afterwards, the cast time and forward facing requirements on f3 severely limit the skill's performance, the heal skill requires you to face and land an attack on your target to be useful (not a huge problem since Ether Feast is far superior anyway), the elite skill and utilities have little to no value in competitive modes (including blade renewal), the traitline is largely mediocre, and the spec itself is in desperate need of mobility/sustain to make up for the lack of clones. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

9 hours ago, Jables.4659 said:

We both know that's not true.  This is typical for 90% of the 1v1s I've had as Virtuoso during this beta event.  Hybrid Virtuoso slaps.  The spec is garbage and lacks sustain, but it can handle most 1v1 matchups perfectly fine.  

 

why do you even bother posting 1v1 from wvw.
people in wvw are literal dog kitten, I won 1v3 as a pve build scholar soulbeast
Also im fairly sure the warrior didnt even want to fight you and just ran around pillar 

[Levetty.1279]

It always amuses me how 90% of PvP players don't use condi cleanse. Guess its easier to just whine for nerfs on forums.

[Bobajob.7136]

I actually enjoyed playing virtuoso in beta 4. Yes the damage should be increased so it can compete with other specs but it wasn't unbearable. Although I do feel like all the damage based utilities are not worth using due to low damage. This means a lack of cleave ability.

Also please put distortion on the number 4 blade. I feel this would compensate for the lack of defense. Maybe make all blades non-castable like shatters so they can be used while stunned or casting. 

In the bigger picture I think this spec has great potential if played correctly.

Thanks for listening Anet.

[Raven.8156]

Is Mesmer really the only espec not to receive a two handed weapon in any expansion so far?

 

I really think we can justify dual dagger on the virtuoso to compensate. Considering all the other core offhand weapons deal with phantasms.., it’d be nice to have an off-hand that caters to the virtuoso mechanics change.

 

please consider adding off-hand dagger…. It should have been an obvious addition from the very beginning.

[zealex.9410]

Imo virt starts majorly falling off when you play against good players. To shatter you have to 1)face the enemy 2)channel the fskills 3)deal with a big kitten animation and travel time 4)less aoe space 5)projectile based abilities.

Yeah if it land it chunks, but thats a sizeable if to ask even back in core gw2 let alone eod era gw2.

Not saying it should be busted op but why are the f skills having cast time and travel time and are projectiles. Shorten the kitten out of the travel and cast time and make them castable regardless of where you are facing, then they can finaly be better than core shatters in some aspects.

and thats just the shatters, i can do another page or 2 just for dagger and utilities.

Edited December 11, 2021 by zealex.9410

[Xenesis.6389]

So just play roaming virtuoso by ignoring all their own elite spec skills and run it like a regular roaming core mesmer? just like the mirage signet build?... 🤭

[Sltrmhcaoou.2305]

23 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

So just play roaming virtuoso by ignoring all their own elite spec skills and run it like a regular roaming core mesmer? just like the mirage signet build?... 🤭

yes, also make sure to shatter in melee range as long range shatters miss anyways.
5head