Catalyst is amazing... for one specific reason

[Flori.2194]

I mean we all know it sucks and is an abomination, a weird mix out of leftover ideas for tempest, weaver and it overall feels like a core ele (especially in competitve game modes), but it's still amazing, and do you know why? 

In this game nobody seems to care about balancing or the glaring problems some classes have, one balance patch per year is far too few. And because Anet isn't interested in balancing classes properly let alone reworking some of the aspects for some classes (for example core traits for Ele, banners for Warrior), the new fully functional and wonderfully working e-spec Catalyst is in my opinion the best we could get. That's why it's amazing. Not because it is, but Anet could not be less interested to make it better anyway. And under this circumstances it is amazing. At least it looks good, right? Right?

 

On a side note: Catalyst made me appreciate Auramancer Tempest and especially Weaver (in like any role or game mode) a lot more, and Weaver already is my favourite class, so thanks for that, crappylyst... 

[manddras.1794]

With catalyst you can negate the staff nerf by using the elite on Meteor Shower. Every 90 seconds.🙃

[Downstate.4697]

Every post I have seen from you is about how bad catalyst is without any real feedback. Frankly its unproductive and annoying to see

[Flori.2194]

46 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Every post I have seen from you is about how bad catalyst is without any real feedback. Frankly its unproductive and annoying to see

I gave my feedback in the feedback thread after the first beta. And a lot of people said the same things as me. And nothing changed for Catalyst as it is right now. The problem is would have done it completely different, but that doesn't matter. Catalyst has a long way to go to be even remotely viable in WvW (or PvP, but ele in PvP in general is far from good). I don't really care for PvE. Open World you can make anything work and with Raids and Fractals the meta is too stale, the new e-specs won't see any use at all. 

 

But I would change:

Another weapon, hammer fails flavourwise and it's already a conjured weapon.

Make the F5 go to the attunements like Tempest overload, make them to gyros around yourself. Fire field, Water field, Lightning Field, Smoke field; or scrap the fields because combos are a pre-HoT thing and give them something unique. 

Utilities with impact, maybe something like wells or mantras and an actual usable elite skill.

And the traits need a clear definition, nothing with auras (that's for tempest) or something that forces you to play celestial (because that's uninspired and boring). Traits that support your new weapon, your utilities and your class mechanic, right now we have nothing but the latter, and those traits aren't that good. I tried to make it work in WvW and PvP and I just can't see how it could. It fails compared to Weaver and Tempest, let alone compared to other real meta classes...

[Ace.1784]

Just now, Flori.2194 said:

I gave my feedback in the feedback thread after the first beta. And a lot of people said the same things as me. And nothing changed for Catalyst as it is right now. The problem is would have done it completely different, but that doesn't matter. Catalyst has a long way to go to be even remotely viable in WvW (or PvP, but ele in PvP in general is far from good). I don't really care for PvE. Open World you can make anything work and with Raids and Fractals the meta is too stale, the new e-specs won't see any use at all. 

 

But I would change:

Another weapon, hammer fails flavourwise and it's already a conjured weapon.

Make the F5 go to the attunements like Tempest overload, make them to gyros around yourself. Fire field, Water field, Lightning Field, Smoke field; or scrap the fields because combos are a pre-HoT thing and give them something unique. 

Utilities with impact, maybe something like wells or mantras and an actual usable elite skill.

And the traits need a clear definition, nothing with auras (that's for tempest) or something that forces you to play celestial (because that's uninspired and boring). Traits that support your new weapon, your utilities and your class mechanic, right now we have nothing but the latter, and those traits aren't that good. I tried to make it work in WvW and PvP and I just can't see how it could. It fails compared to Weaver and Tempest, let alone compared to other real meta classes...

When you say viable in WvW, are you referring to hammer? I haven't figured out a specific hammer build yet, but staff catalyst is really good in coordinated (medium-large group) WvW.

 

Auras is not just for tempest. There are plenty of ways to get/use auras without spec'ing into tempest. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only modifications tempest does for auras is adding self aura on overload, healing on application and two boons (both if traited). Auras aren't even elementalist specific.

 

 

[Flori.2194]

2 minutes ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

When you say viable in WvW, are you referring to hammer? I haven't figured out a specific hammer build yet, but staff catalyst is really good in coordinated (medium-large group) WvW.

 

Auras is not just for tempest. There are plenty of ways to get/use auras without spec'ing into tempest. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only modifications tempest does for auras is adding self aura on overload, healing on application and two boons (both if traited). Auras aren't even elementalist specific.

 

 

Staff Catalyst does less damage than Weaver or is at least comparable to Weaver so they both compete for the same spot. You don't want a lot of damage eles in your full blob, maybe 2 or 3, and now it's either Catalyst or Weaver, so for zerg fights it's nothing new. 

 

And well, the thing that makes Tempest the "aura ele" are it's utilities, besides "Eye of the Storm" every shout grants an aura. I know the aura traits are scattered around core traitlines, but for me (and when I look through the feedback thread for a lot of other players) the aura trait line looks like an idea they had for Tempest but couldn't use back then... When I tried Auramancer Catalyst my aura uptime was nearly the same as with Tempest, but I lack burst heals (water overload, "Wash the Pain away!"). So in this spot it competes with Tempest.

And that's my biggest problem (besides that combos should be a nice little gimmick and shouldn't be the center of a new e-spec 10 years after the games release): It has no real purpose in competitive game modes. I don't know much about Raids, but my daily T4 fractals I do with Alacregade because I like to be sought after, something I don't experience as ele main that often. 

PvP Sidenoder/Duelist: It competes with Weaver and tbh it can't handle other Sidenoders or Duelists like Core Ranger or Holo.

PvP Teamfight: Besides that other classes are much better, LR Weaver is kind of ok, but with Catalyst what do you add? LR Catalyst? You lack the dual attacks for extra damage and a more fluid playstyle. And you pick Earth Shield and Tornado and Blink and Signet of Air anyway, so why even bother playing Catalyst? Staff or Hammer? You don't have enough burst on neither weapon. Maybe you can try to bully others on a node but you will get bursted down very quickly by something like Power Herald. 

WvW: Roaming (no comment, although I get bullied a lot by your typical roaming builds, but anything can work running around solo)

Smallscale (up to GvG maybe): Tempest already has a hard time there to be viable and mainly because of Tornado, Glyph of Renewal or a bit of aura support. Weaver sees no play in GvG, in small groups you can play a bit of FA Weaver, but again you need the dual attacks to deal enough damage. 

Zerging: As a support you compete with Scrapper or Firebrand, so no. And as I said as damage dealer you compete directly with Weaver with pulsing damage and damage fields, you can't really compete with Power Herald.

 

Unless myself and a lot of other players (mostly from WvW and PvP) miss something, we won't see Catalyst in a pvp environment, it's just too squishy, has no real identity and brings nothing new to the table. 

[Ace.1784]

10 minutes ago, Flori.2194 said:

Staff Catalyst does less damage than Weaver or is at least comparable to Weaver so they both compete for the same spot. You don't want a lot of damage eles in your full blob, maybe 2 or 3, and now it's either Catalyst or Weaver, so for zerg fights it's nothing new. 

 

And well, the thing that makes Tempest the "aura ele" are it's utilities, besides "Eye of the Storm" every shout grants an aura. I know the aura traits are scattered around core traitlines, but for me (and when I look through the feedback thread for a lot of other players) the aura trait line looks like an idea they had for Tempest but couldn't use back then... When I tried Auramancer Catalyst my aura uptime was nearly the same as with Tempest, but I lack burst heals (water overload, "Wash the Pain away!"). So in this spot it competes with Tempest.

And that's my biggest problem (besides that combos should be a nice little gimmick and shouldn't be the center of a new e-spec 10 years after the games release): It has no real purpose in competitive game modes. I don't know much about Raids, but my daily T4 fractals I do with Alacregade because I like to be sought after, something I don't experience as ele main that often. 

PvP Sidenoder/Duelist: It competes with Weaver and tbh it can't handle other Sidenoders or Duelists like Core Ranger or Holo.

PvP Teamfight: Besides that other classes are much better, LR Weaver is kind of ok, but with Catalyst what do you add? LR Catalyst? You lack the dual attacks for extra damage and a more fluid playstyle. And you pick Earth Shield and Tornado and Blink and Signet of Air anyway, so why even bother playing Catalyst? Staff or Hammer? You don't have enough burst on neither weapon. Maybe you can try to bully others on a node but you will get bursted down very quickly by something like Power Herald. 

WvW: Roaming (no comment, although I get bullied a lot by your typical roaming builds, but anything can work running around solo)

Smallscale (up to GvG maybe): Tempest already has a hard time there to be viable and mainly because of Tornado, Glyph of Renewal or a bit of aura support. Weaver sees no play in GvG, in small groups you can play a bit of FA Weaver, but again you need the dual attacks to deal enough damage. 

Zerging: As a support you compete with Scrapper or Firebrand, so no. And as I said as damage dealer you compete directly with Weaver with pulsing damage and damage fields, you can't really compete with Power Herald.

 

Unless myself and a lot of other players (mostly from WvW and PvP) miss something, we won't see Catalyst in a pvp environment, it's just too squishy, has no real identity and brings nothing new to the table. 

My math comes out to catalyst pushing out ahead of weaver in terms of damage. 

 

It makes sense that Tempest has more burst healing. In my mind, Tempest is a heal support spec (that's what it does that distinguishes itself from other eles, burst group heals). 

I think in your breakdown of game modes, a lot of the issue is a lack of creativity to branch out. Catalyst seeing play in smallscale WvW/GvG is dependent upon the boon application. As you noted, it's very rare to bring a class just for damage (which is why many groups run with few weavers, as you mentioned earlier). 

[Flori.2194]

1 minute ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

My math comes out to catalyst pushing out ahead of weaver in terms of damage. 

 

It makes sense that Tempest has more burst healing. In my mind, Tempest is a heal support spec (that's what it does that distinguishes itself from other eles, burst group heals). 

I think in your breakdown of game modes, a lot of the issue is a lack of creativity to branch out. Catalyst seeing play in smallscale WvW/GvG is dependent upon the boon application. As you noted, it's very rare to bring a class just for damage (which is why many groups run with few weavers, as you mentioned earlier). 

I would like to hear how Catalyst can deal more damage then a Weaver.^^

 

And it won't see any play in GvG, it adds nothing for a 15-man group. 

 

And of course my breackdown is lackluster, those are the major roles in WvW or PvP Ele right now is played. And not that sought after or not that much viable at all, so I can't see how Catalyst would fit anywhere in those roles without adding something else (like boon strips, spike damage, support with stealth, survivability in a 1v1 etc.).

[Ace.1784]

14 minutes ago, Flori.2194 said:

I would like to hear how Catalyst can deal more damage then a Weaver.^^

 

And it won't see any play in GvG, it adds nothing for a 15-man group. 

 

And of course my breackdown is lackluster, those are the major roles in WvW or PvP Ele right now is played. And not that sought after or not that much viable at all, so I can't see how Catalyst would fit anywhere in those roles without adding something else (like boon strips, spike damage, support with stealth, survivability in a 1v1 etc.).

Right now I'm playing Immob Catalyst (Fire, Arcane) and DPS Backline Catalyst (Fire, Air) with heal/elite augment and fire, water, earth augment or fire, water augment and lightning flash. Both builds get full stack of elemental epitome for 20% amp and your primary bomb is air sphere -> fire sphere -> fire augment -> double meteor shower.  In between bombs you can do standard staff damage, add soft cc with water sphere + lava font (or any spell of your choice), and apply boons as needed during movement phases. 

It's pretty fun and I'm noticing a lot higher damage numbers compared to my typical standing.

 

WvW metaclasses have a lot of support built into them. Personally, I think those classes should be nerfed rather than buff elementalist to those levels, and I'm specifically thinking of support firebrand and support scrapper. Giving any iteration of elementalist boon strips or stealth would put the game balance in a very poor state, especially since there are ele builds that are able to survive/win 1v3s and 1v5s (WvW roaming setting). 

 

[Flori.2194]

21 minutes ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

Right now I'm playing Immob Catalyst (Fire, Arcane) and DPS Backline Catalyst (Fire, Air) with heal/elite augment and fire, water, earth augment or fire, water augment and lightning flash. Both builds get full stack of elemental epitome for 20% amp and your primary bomb is air sphere -> fire sphere -> fire augment -> double meteor shower.  In between bombs you can do standard staff damage, add soft cc with water sphere + lava font (or any spell of your choice), and apply boons as needed during movement phases. 

It's pretty fun and I'm noticing a lot higher damage numbers compared to my typical standing.

 

WvW metaclasses have a lot of support built into them. Personally, I think those classes should be nerfed rather than buff elementalist to those levels, and I'm specifically thinking of support firebrand and support scrapper. Giving any iteration of elementalist boon strips or stealth would put the game balance in a very poor state, especially since there are ele builds that are able to survive/win 1v3s and 1v5s (WvW roaming setting). 

 

If you play the elite skill you miss out on FGS, your most devastating und useful damage tool, you can easily maintain 10k dps with it for a rather long time. I still can't see how a bit of double meteor (which you have to nail) and basically core ele for the rest of the fight outdamages Weaver where you can constantly spam fire 2 WHILE going out of fire, do something else and go back to fire for another Fire 2 and repeat. Staff Catalyst has the same problem as Staff Tempest: you are locked out of fire for too long if you decide to give some cc.

 

Why would stealth for ele or boon strips be bad? Your example is pretty horrible, because in a vacuum you won't handle a 1vs3 (not to mention 1v5). When both sides are equally skilled you can barely manage a 1v2, but that can be said for a lot of classes (Celestial Rev, Celebrand etc.). Don't think Cellofrag stomping noobs or slackers with zerg builds on his Ele means that every Ele can win 1vs2 against equally skilled players. 

 

But in the end we agree, balancing isn't something anet can be proud of. Firebrand (and Scrapper as support in WvW) should be nerfed because it still stands as someone else said in a thread: If you remove ele from the game, nothing would change...

[Downstate.4697]

I cant speak for wvw since i havent played it large scale in a minute, however, I think it is possible to have a meta shift in response to all of the boon rip. Hammer train 2022.  Basically you overwelm the boon strip with constant reapplication of boons. Thats why I think hammer catalyst with aura share and stability could be a thing. The idea is to passively generate boons for the team and overwhelm any boonrip with more boons.

Support spellbreaker would drop minstrels for more damage and also drop vigourous shouts for phalax strength. They would also run strength with gs. 

Support scrapper would drop minstrels as well in favor of damage.

Guardians run any flavor of hammer.

Catalyst runs hammer

Mesmer would still be utility and boon rip.

Necro is a barrier bot.

Thief could run staff dd or be another barrier/alacrity bot.

Herald stays the same.

Frontline immobbeast with stance sharing.

Everyone runs durability with at least 50% boon duration.

Obv more fine tuning is involved.

 

As for pvp d/d catalyst performs rather well and could take on the slot of a duelist and be competitive.

[Zephyrus.9680]

This class is a jumbled mess on what roles it's supposed to fill. The stacking aura buffs makes it look like purely a pve class with an annoying rotation.

 

As a WvW player it looks disappointing but maybe I can get d/d or d/f to work. 

[Flori.2194]

28 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

I cant speak for wvw since i havent played it large scale in a minute, however, I think it is possible to have a meta shift in response to all of the boon rip. Hammer train 2022.  Basically you overwelm the boon strip with constant reapplication of boons. Thats why I think hammer catalyst with aura share and stability could be a thing. The idea is to passively generate boons for the team and overwhelm any boonrip with more boons.

Support spellbreaker would drop minstrels for more damage and also drop vigourous shouts for phalax strength. They would also run strength with gs. 

Support scrapper would drop minstrels as well in favor of damage.

Guardians run any flavor of hammer.

Catalyst runs hammer

Mesmer would still be utility and boon rip.

Necro is a barrier bot.

Thief could run staff dd or be another barrier/alacrity bot.

Herald stays the same.

Frontline immobbeast with stance sharing.

Everyone runs durability with at least 50% boon duration.

Obv more fine tuning is involved.

 

As for pvp d/d catalyst performs rather well and could take on the slot of a duelist and be competitive.

The stab only works for yourself, right? And you are seriously promoting "boon overload"? You are aware you strip a boon and it's gone, doesn't matter how many stacks or how long the remaining duration is. They key is a coordinated corruption and damage bomb (ele can't do neither btw). 

I like DPS Spellbreaker already a lot more than support, no need for an additional support when Firebrand and Scrapper cover everything.

Nope, Guardian stays on Staff and x/Shield for cc, swiftness, blast, burst heal and might, projectile hate and Aegis (and that's just the weapon skills for Staff and offhand Shield...).

You can already see some damage scrappers with flamethrower, nothing new, although Support Scrapper is the best cleansebot you can have (and heals, superspeed, stealth... overloaded af).

Necro corrupts, strips, cc's and deals a lot of damage. The barrier is just a side effect.

Staff/Staff DD is already viable. 

As well as Immobeast.

Durability is already meta on Firebrand...

 

So you say nothing new, your new meta is the same as it is right now but somehow Catalyst can have a spot? The last one of the 50? Catalyst adds nothing. Just like Weaver now, it adds nothing. 

 

And yeah, maybe you can play D/x Catalyst in silver or low gold, but higher up the ranks, at least in G3/P1, real sidenoders/duelists will stomp Catalyst. It has not enough tools to be a competent sidenoder let alone a good duelist...

 

[Downstate.4697]

1 hour ago, Flori.2194 said:

The stab only works for yourself, right? And you are seriously promoting "boon overload"? You are aware you strip a boon and it's gone, doesn't matter how many stacks or how long the remaining duration is. They key is a coordinated corruption and damage bomb (ele can't do neither btw). 

I like DPS Spellbreaker already a lot more than support, no need for an additional support when Firebrand and Scrapper cover everything.

Nope, Guardian stays on Staff and x/Shield for cc, swiftness, blast, burst heal and might, projectile hate and Aegis (and that's just the weapon skills for Staff and offhand Shield...).

You can already see some damage scrappers with flamethrower, nothing new, although Support Scrapper is the best cleansebot you can have (and heals, superspeed, stealth... overloaded af).

Necro corrupts, strips, cc's and deals a lot of damage. The barrier is just a side effect.

Staff/Staff DD is already viable. 

As well as Immobeast.

Durability is already meta on Firebrand...

 

So you say nothing new, your new meta is the same as it is right now but somehow Catalyst can have a spot? The last one of the 50? Catalyst adds nothing. Just like Weaver now, it adds nothing. 

 

And yeah, maybe you can play D/x Catalyst in silver or low gold, but higher up the ranks, at least in G3/P1, real sidenoders/duelists will stomp Catalyst. It has not enough tools to be a competent sidenoder let alone a good duelist...

 

Fair point for wvw.

 

We will have to agree to disagree with pvp though. Its quite easy to maintain 15+ might with d/d so even with sage amulet you are doing decent damage. The stab uptime makes its hard for players to lock you down. The augments are arguably better than cantrips. I really dont think people will have issues getting through gold on it. 

Will it be relevent in tournaments? I dont think so. Side noders in general are falling out of favor and there are better options for team fighters.  The good thing about it is that it is flexible in its role and allows for easier team rotations.

[Ace.1784]

3 hours ago, Flori.2194 said:

If you play the elite skill you miss out on FGS, your most devastating und useful damage tool, you can easily maintain 10k dps with it for a rather long time. I still can't see how a bit of double meteor (which you have to nail) and basically core ele for the rest of the fight outdamages Weaver where you can constantly spam fire 2 WHILE going out of fire, do something else and go back to fire for another Fire 2 and repeat. Staff Catalyst has the same problem as Staff Tempest: you are locked out of fire for too long if you decide to give some cc.

 

Why would stealth for ele or boon strips be bad? Your example is pretty horrible, because in a vacuum you won't handle a 1vs3 (not to mention 1v5). When both sides are equally skilled you can barely manage a 1v2, but that can be said for a lot of classes (Celestial Rev, Celebrand etc.). Don't think Cellofrag stomping noobs or slackers with zerg builds on his Ele means that every Ele can win 1vs2 against equally skilled players. 

 

But in the end we agree, balancing isn't something anet can be proud of. Firebrand (and Scrapper as support in WvW) should be nerfed because it still stands as someone else said in a thread: If you remove ele from the game, nothing would change...

I think you hit it on the head. We're saying the same thing, we just disagree on how elementalist fits in the overarching balancing.

Give the Catalyst setup a few tries. The role it would replace would be Weaver (plain dps) or an offensive support/dps option if your guild experiments with those.

[Flori.2194]

Sorry at you both, I think we all agree that Catalyst isn't really what we hoped for when they first announced new e-specs and is still far away from what we potentially need (as eles) in general. 

I just like to state it in a more radical manner with a bit of salt, overall as an ele main I am massively disappointed by Catalyst and probably still will be for a long time. Some others, like you, try to make it at least work. I think we look at it from different angles. I am still too annoyed by it, sorry if it affected you... 😅

[Downstate.4697]

5 minutes ago, Flori.2194 said:

Sorry at you both, I think we all agree that Catalyst isn't really what we hoped for when they first announced new e-specs and is still far away from what we potentially need (as eles) in general. 

I just like to state it in a more radical manner with a bit of salt, overall as an ele main I am massively disappointed by Catalyst and probably still will be for a long time. Some others, like you, try to make it at least work. I think we look at it from different angles. I am still too annoyed by it, sorry if it affected you... 😅

No i said it in a hurtful way. Sorry for being a jerk

[Jski.6180]

10 hours ago, manddras.1794 said:

With catalyst you can negate the staff nerf by using the elite on Meteor Shower. Every 90 seconds.🙃

Meteor Shower is ele only true elite skill! 🙃(this emote fits ele very well.)

Cata has a lot of boons and boon like effect that the other eles are missing. Its something but it means a Cata is mostly a core ele +.  Hammer dose not feel like its there yet.

[Flori.2194]

1 hour ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

No i said it in a hurtful way. Sorry for being a jerk

Don't worry, I guess we both acted a little too harsh, maybe those new e-specs are attacking us emotionally more than we thought^^

[Agrios.9071]

It is impossible to realistically land the double meteor against not sleeping enemies btw.

If you actually fight in a more competeptive bvb setting both groups move so much that you can only cast 1 meteor and you already have to invest burning retreat or your teleport to get this one skill casted safely. Now try to use 2 meteor while standing still, even with quickness you take too long. Remember that alot of specs can either interrupt you or just kill you off (scourge with focus, herald with sword or hammer) while you try to meteor 2 times.

FGS is by far superior compared to the catalyst elite because the 3 skill actually gives you sustain while you can do good damage. Arguably FGS (or conjureds in general) is broken because it got forgotten during the big power dmg nerf but because of this it actually has a really high power level compared to most other things in the game currently.

 

Against enemies that dont fight back you will obviously be able to double meteor them but then again those players behave more like pve mobs and while seeing high damage numbers is nice, it is not a representation of skill or good design if the enemies are on the level of random open world mobs...

Edited December 2, 2021 by Agrios.9071

[Bakeneko.5826]

Catalyst outdpses weaver and has more self support in PvE, with current build that will most likely meta, i push 48-49k DPS, saw ppl doing 50k+, but sure, weaver has better damage 😄  despite Catalyst being objectively better PvE class in all areas - raids, fractals and open world.

[Ace.1784]

4 hours ago, Agrios.9071 said:

It is impossible to realistically land the double meteor against not sleeping enemies btw.

If you actually fight in a more competeptive bvb setting both groups move so much that you can only cast 1 meteor and you already have to invest burning retreat or your teleport to get this one skill casted safely. Now try to use 2 meteor while standing still, even with quickness you take too long. Remember that alot of specs can either interrupt you or just kill you off (scourge with focus, herald with sword or hammer) while you try to meteor 2 times.

FGS is by far superior compared to the catalyst elite because the 3 skill actually gives you sustain while you can do good damage. Arguably FGS (or conjureds in general) is broken because it got forgotten during the big power dmg nerf but because of this it actually has a really high power level compared to most other things in the game currently.

 

Against enemies that dont fight back you will obviously be able to double meteor them but then again those players behave more like pve mobs and while seeing high damage numbers is nice, it is not a representation of skill or good design if the enemies are on the level of random open world mobs...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that FGS is bad. FGS is extremely good for all the reasons you mentioned. 

What I'm saying is, here is a Catalyst build that I found particularly effective within my guild's composition. Feel free to swap out the elite augment for FGS if you like, but I get better numbers with the augment.

My goal wasn't to create the best build off the bat, but to use the augments and see how they feel in various fights. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Vinteros Asteano.1209

[Flori.2194]

4 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Catalyst outdpses weaver and has more self support in PvE, with current build that will most likely meta, i push 48-49k DPS, saw ppl doing 50k+, but sure, weaver has better damage 😄  despite Catalyst being objectively better PvE class in all areas - raids, fractals and open world.

Dude, nobody in this thread cares about number farming in PvE, we talk about WvW and PvP, the game modes where every situation, every encounter is different to the last. And most would agree that Catalyst (alongside most of the other new e-specs) sucks hard in a competitive environment or at least is nothing new and adds nothing meaningful...

[Ace.1784]

2 minutes ago, Flori.2194 said:

Dude, nobody in this thread cares about number farming in PvE, we talk about WvW and PvP, the game modes where every situation, every encounter is different to the last. And most would agree that Catalyst (alongside most of the other new e-specs) sucks hard in a competitive environment or at least is nothing new and adds nothing meaningful...

I found this link for another thread, but I think the information from CMC applies here as well. It's a 3 hour video, so I'm sure most people haven't sat through it. The commentary from CMC can also help frame discussions around Catalyst.

 

Timestamps of Interest:

EoD Specs Impact on WvW  and Future Balance (2h42m35s): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxk55VvGTkc&t=792s&ab_channel=MightyTeapot&t=2h42m35s

 

EoD Specs not fitting into WvW (2h45m03s): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxk55VvGTkc&t=792s&ab_channel=MightyTeapot&t=2h45m03s

 

 

[Flori.2194]

1 minute ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

I found this link for another thread, but I think the information from CMC applies here as well. It's a 3 hour video, so I'm sure most people haven't sat through it. The commentary from CMC can also help frame discussions around Catalyst.

 

Timestamps of Interest:

EoD Specs Impact on WvW  and Future Balance (2h42m35s): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxk55VvGTkc&t=792s&ab_channel=MightyTeapot&t=2h42m35s

 

EoD Specs not fitting into WvW (2h45m03s): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxk55VvGTkc&t=792s&ab_channel=MightyTeapot&t=2h45m03s

 

 

Yeah, I already listened to it and it's all wishy-washy. I know that he has restrictions in what to say and what not but this whole stream was a bit of a meme. He tried to sell us the elite skill as broken. Maybe for PvE, but for WvW or PvP it's rather unimpactful... So yeah, it seems they forgot about one of the "cornerstone game modes" of the game...