Catalyst feels like trash

[Kain Francois.4328]

On 12/12/2021 at 2:36 AM, Shiyo.3578 said:

Who? It's CMC which is his irl names initials.

I've been told the water is a cult for us who enjoy Catalyst.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Kain Francois.4328

[Ace.1784]

14 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

2 ~= 3.

Note that his statement (you quoted it) was: Hammer doenst lack condi cleanse at all, in fact, it is the same as focus if you hit someone with it.

The base is 2 condi cleanses. Hitting 1 target is 3 condi cleanses. Hitting 3 targets is 5 condi cleanses.

13 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

The Jade sphere needs more flexibility in how and when it is summoned i.e. need a minimum summon amount however if you have over that then it will steadily drain unless you unsummon it. Having to keep summoning it every 5 seconds seems like it can be cumbersome.

Also, we have a WHOLE line of traits for auras.....but have no natural aura generating abilities beyond doing combos. Yet creating a combo for an aura requires a blast or leap finisher and not many hammer skills have them. The spec is too convoluted and potential TOO spread out. This lack of cohesion makes the spec unfun because in order, I guess, to get the max viability out of this spec I have to give up creativity and cycle through all attunements and certain utility skills no matter my play style. No thanks.

The elite skill is very uninspiring also...refresh all weapon skills....yay...... They really should do a mega jade sphere attack where it overclocks the Jade Sphere to make an even bigger combo field (of your current attunement) with more effects and with some cost adding time to change attunements.

It doesn't required a blast or a leap finisher, it requires a combo. The hammer's combo finishers are:

Blasts:

• Molten End
• Shock Blast
• Ground Pound

Whirl

• Cleansing Typhoon

Leap

• Crashing Font

Projectile

• Grand Finale in any of the four attunements of your choice

Giving you 6 combo finishers, or 9 depending on if you're actively looking to chain.

For comparison:

• Main Hand dagger has 2 finishers
• Off hand dagger has 2 finishers
• Scepter has 3~4 finishers (Earth auto has 20% chance)
• Staff has 5~6 finishers(Earth auto has 20% chance)
• Focus has 2 finishers

Hammer has the most combo finishers of any elementalist weapon combination. The only ones that compete, have combo finishers with a 20% chance.

Reminder that  the trait has a 10 second icd per attunement, so you shouldn't be spamming these mindlessly. Another reminder that you can start the combo finisher and swap attunements to gain a different aura.

 

[Mattmatt.4962]

Comparing number of finisher is cool, comparing CD is better.

Hammer's are on 25cd for a lot of them. Aka twice the time of quite some finisher.

It also doesnt have any field nor baseline aura.

[Shiyo.3578]

2 hours ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

Note that his statement (you quoted it) was: Hammer doenst lack condi cleanse at all, in fact, it is the same as focus if you hit someone with it.

It's 1+1 on hammer vs 3 on focus.

2 ~= 3

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I'm so sad, I've missed the second beta for catalyst 😞

[Ace.1784]

1 hour ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

It's 1+1 on hammer vs 3 on focus.

2 ~= 3

From the Beta 2 thread:

• Cleansing Typhoon: This skill now cleanses two conditions before attacking in addition to its other effects. This skill is now a whirl finisher.

Which means the wiki page for it is updated:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Typhoon

[Jski.6180]

59 minutes ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

From the Beta 2 thread:

• Cleansing Typhoon: This skill now cleanses two conditions before attacking in addition to its other effects. This skill is now a whirl finisher.

Which means the wiki page for it is updated:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Typhoon

If you realty want to get down to it though having transmutation is a massive boon where hammer dose not. The hammer has very low utility in that mind set. Even weaver and tempest had some transmutation game play to them as they where all 1h wepon classes so there off / main hand could have transmutation witch is an clear and a host of utility.

Even at best of times ele gets most of its clears from its trait line not its wepon the trait line gives the wepon its true clear out put.

Now only if we could get so means of more utility on combos for CAT and not just auras. That is where the hammer and realty CAT feels like "trash" it dose not fill its combo roll well enofe to be called a combo class (needs more added effects from its combos then just auras say clears, boons even cc).

[Shiyo.3578]

3 hours ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

From the Beta 2 thread:

• Cleansing Typhoon: This skill now cleanses two conditions before attacking in addition to its other effects. This skill is now a whirl finisher.

Which means the wiki page for it is updated:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Typhoon

Ah ok. It's difficult to talk about betas due to lack of info and constant changes.

The skill is still worse for no reason, they should stop trying to force hammer to actively be engaged with players to benefit from it's sustain when other weapon's DON'T have to do that. 

Do blinds/blocks/aegis/dodge stop the additional cleanse like water4s heal?

[Ace.1784]

6 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Ah ok. It's difficult to talk about betas due to lack of info and constant changes.

The skill is still worse for no reason, they should stop trying to force hammer to actively be engaged with players to benefit from it's sustain when other weapon's DON'T have to do that. 

Do blinds/blocks/aegis/dodge stop the additional cleanse like water4s heal?

I have seen dodge stop the secondary effect, so it makes sense to me that blinds/blocks/aegis will stop it.

 

EDIT: Maybe something to test on release.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Vinteros Asteano.1209

[HotDelirium.7984]

8 hours ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

Note that his statement (you quoted it) was: Hammer doenst lack condi cleanse at all, in fact, it is the same as focus if you hit someone with it.

The base is 2 condi cleanses. Hitting 1 target is 3 condi cleanses. Hitting 3 targets is 5 condi cleanses.

It doesn't required a blast or a leap finisher, it requires a combo. The hammer's combo finishers are:

Blasts:

• Molten End
• Shock Blast
• Ground Pound

Whirl

• Cleansing Typhoon

Leap

• Crashing Font

Projectile

• Grand Finale in any of the four attunements of your choice

Giving you 6 combo finishers, or 9 depending on if you're actively looking to chain.

For comparison:

• Main Hand dagger has 2 finishers
• Off hand dagger has 2 finishers
• Scepter has 3~4 finishers (Earth auto has 20% chance)
• Staff has 5~6 finishers(Earth auto has 20% chance)
• Focus has 2 finishers

Hammer has the most combo finishers of any elementalist weapon combination. The only ones that compete, have combo finishers with a 20% chance.

Reminder that  the trait has a 10 second icd per attunement, so you shouldn't be spamming these mindlessly. Another reminder that you can start the combo finisher and swap attunements to gain a different aura.

 

When you spreadsheet it sure it seems to have a lot of potential but pick one attunment and one weapon and thats when it starts to get dicey. In large groups there will be no shortage of combo fields but solo pve? Good luck to ya! Anet seems to still have this sentiment to spread out the entire usefulness of the spec across all attunements instead of consolidating it per attunement.

[scerevisiae.1972]

On 12/14/2021 at 4:00 AM, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

Hammer has the most combo finishers of any elementalist weapon combination.

It wouldn't matter if every hammer skill were a combo finisher.

Hammer sucks because it's just another melee weapon that competes with dagger and sword. The 6/20 short-ranged skills don't differentiate the playstyle enough for it not to feel/play like a melee weapon.

Also it completely sucks in the only game-mode I care about: WVW, and I've been playing staff/sceptre/dagger for 9 years now.

So as far as I'm concerned, it's a total design fail, cause the design/playstyle is really the only thing that matters at the end of the day.

Edited December 15, 2021 by scerevisiae.1972

[Avatara.1042]

On 12/14/2021 at 6:00 AM, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

Note that his statement (you quoted it) was: Hammer doenst lack condi cleanse at all, in fact, it is the same as focus if you hit someone with it.

The base is 2 condi cleanses. Hitting 1 target is 3 condi cleanses. Hitting 3 targets is 5 condi cleanses.

It doesn't required a blast or a leap finisher, it requires a combo. The hammer's combo finishers are:

Blasts:

• Molten End
• Shock Blast
• Ground Pound

Whirl

• Cleansing Typhoon

Leap

• Crashing Font

Projectile

• Grand Finale in any of the four attunements of your choice

Giving you 6 combo finishers, or 9 depending on if you're actively looking to chain.

For comparison:

• Main Hand dagger has 2 finishers
• Off hand dagger has 2 finishers
• Scepter has 3~4 finishers (Earth auto has 20% chance)
• Staff has 5~6 finishers(Earth auto has 20% chance)
• Focus has 2 finishers

Hammer has the most combo finishers of any elementalist weapon combination. The only ones that compete, have combo finishers with a 20% chance.

Reminder that  the trait has a 10 second icd per attunement, so you shouldn't be spamming these mindlessly. Another reminder that you can start the combo finisher and swap attunements to gain a different aura.

 

Staff Earth 1 is a 100% projectile finisher, not 20%.  You also neglect to mention the biggest issue: COOLDOWNS.

Not only does Hammer have the longest finisher cooldowns, by far, half the finishers are liked to critical utility.

[Ace.1784]

On 12/15/2021 at 1:13 AM, scerevisiae.1972 said:

It wouldn't matter if every hammer skill were a combo finisher.

Hammer sucks because it's just another melee weapon that competes with dagger and sword. The 6/20 short-ranged skills don't differentiate the playstyle enough for it not to feel/play like a melee weapon.

Also it completely sucks in the only game-mode I care about: WVW, and I've been playing staff/sceptre/dagger for 9 years now.

So as far as I'm concerned, it's a total design fail, cause the design/playstyle is really the only thing that matters at the end of the day.

 

22 hours ago, Avatara.1042 said:

Staff Earth 1 is a 100% projectile finisher, not 20%.  You also neglect to mention the biggest issue: COOLDOWNS.

Not only does Hammer have the longest finisher cooldowns, by far, half the finishers are liked to critical utility.

You both are not following the discussion. 

 

Person A says, "Hammer skills do not have many combo finishers"

I list all of the combo finishers.

It does matter if every hammer skill was a combo finisher, because the discussion is on how many combo finishers it has.

Hammer being a melee weapon is irrelevant to the amount of combo finishers.

Hammer being bad in WvW is irrelevant to the number of combo finishers

Staff 1 being a 100% finisher is helpful, but it still puts hammer at equal to staff and still more if you purposefully combo. You are correct there are cooldowns, but then that brings us to our next point, the trait we are talking about has a 10 second ICD per attunement.

So even if you can spam Staff Water 2, it is irrelevant to the conversation.

You can express your disdain with hammer and Catalyst, that is fine; however, do not flat out lie and derail comment threads.

[Avatara.1042]

2 hours ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

 

You both are not following the discussion. 

 

Person A says, "Hammer skills do not have many combo finishers"

I list all of the combo finishers.

It does matter if every hammer skill was a combo finisher, because the discussion is on how many combo finishers it has.

Hammer being a melee weapon is irrelevant to the amount of combo finishers.

Hammer being bad in WvW is irrelevant to the number of combo finishers

Staff 1 being a 100% finisher is helpful, but it still puts hammer at equal to staff and still more if you purposefully combo. You are correct there are cooldowns, but then that brings us to our next point, the trait we are talking about has a 10 second ICD per attunement.

So even if you can spam Staff Water 2, it is irrelevant to the conversation.

You can express your disdain with hammer and Catalyst, that is fine; however, do not flat out lie and derail comment threads.

 

'Even though Hammer's finishers are on long cooldowns and linked to critical abilities you want to save, it technically has more in a numerical sense, though it will never be able to output more or use them properly.'

 

Well played, mate...

[scerevisiae.1972]

11 hours ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

You both are not following the discussion. 

Actually the title of the thread is, Catalyst feels like trash, which is does. The number of combo finishers has nothing to do with Catalyst feeling like trash.

*You're* the one not following the thread here...

Edited December 17, 2021 by scerevisiae.1972