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Article about games letting down people with disabilities


BlueJin.4127

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Why Games Are Still Letting Down People With Disabilities (forbes.com)

Reading this article, the first game that came to my mind was GW2. My biggest gripe is that there are so many bright flashing lights, like camera flashes, that cause pain and discomfort. Some players, like me, have sensitive eyes or constantly deal with eye fatigue. These flashing lights can cause pain and discomfort for players with sensitive eyes, can cause seizures and other serious issues to some players, and are just bad for everyone. Whether you adjust the lackluster in-game settings we currently have, adjust your monitor's settings, or use 3rd party softwares, there's just no way to reduce the brightness of these flashing lights to acceptable levels without making the rest of the game so dark that it's hard to see. Despite years of complaints and feedback, Anet has yet to address this issue, or even discuss this with players in meaningful ways.

  • Auto attacks by many professions cause subtle flashing lights that are much worse in certain conditions, such as when fighting next to walls due to light reflection (like when fighting inside buildings when doing human commoner personal story).
  • Many professions have skills that cause bright flashes. Some are so bad, I can't play those specs, at all. Engineer's Grenade Barrage causes bright flash. Scrapper and Holosmith have many skills that cause bright flashes. Firebrand also spams flashing lights. There are so many professions with flashing lights that cause pain.
  • Whenever Soulbeast exits beast mode (which happens every time the player mounts), a bright yellow flash displays. It may seem subtle, but if the camera is zoomed in, it can be quite painful and disorienting.
  • Whenever the players draws the legendary bow, Pharus, a bright pillar of light displays. Again, it's at its worst if the camera is zoomed in. The new cyberscale skin seems to have a similar effect from the videos I've seen. The EoD legendary greatsword also seems to cause a bright flashing light when drawn, based on early video preview.
  • The jackal and warclaw engage skills cause flashes.
  • Activating a Vista causes the whole screen to flash white.
  • Touching a Volatile magic in LS4 maps, or floating karma in IBS, causes a bright flash.
  • Using the Volatile mining tool causes a bright flash.
  • Ley-Line Anomaly encounter spams bright flashes at the players. Some of us avoid this event because of this.
  • The list goes on and on.

There are just so many of these issues in GW2, with no way for players to fix these without Anet's intervention. One solution could be to go over every single effect and reduce the brightness of these or make them more gradual. Another option is to include a slider. A slider to adjust the visibility of player's own effects (skill effects, legendary effects, infusion effects, mount engage skills, etc.), a slider to adjust the visibility of other players' effects, and a slider to adjust the visibility of environment effects (PVE enemies, environment effects, etc.). Sliders would kill 2 birds with 1 stone since it would also do wonders to reduce visual clutter so that large scale encounters aren't just shallow, mindless, and incomprehensible mess (while not related to medical issues, visual clutter is my 2nd biggest gripe in this game).

The flashing lights is just one of the problems this game can be frustrating for players with medical issues. I'm sure there are many more issues that other players also deal with. I think it's past time that Anet make some meaningful changes to the game to address some of these issues.

Edited by BlueJin.4127
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I'm in favor of more settings that let people adjust and/or reduce visual noise (their own and that of other players) on their screens. It would be nice for people that have serious visual impairments and disabilities, but it would also be nice for me, a person who would like to be able to see enemy boss models once in a while.

I've had the good fortune of finding some indi games and in-development MMOs that are taking this kind of thing into account from the start, so I hope that existing live-service games like GW2 consider ways they can make their product a bit more user-friendly as part of their ongoing maintenance.

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I tried to bring up in the past that for hearing impaired players following the story along becomes very difficult after your personal story ends because that's when the more static dialogue screens (the one with character standing in front of a painted background and the text appearing in the middle) come to an end. Since then we have had to rely on speech bubbles and the chat box which often become impossible to follow due to dialogue happening mid-combat where you just don't have the opportunity to look at the text.

 

I brought the point up at a time when people were asking when the unvoiced episodes will get voice acting because they just can't enjoy or follow the story along without voiced dialogue. When I mentioned that experience is what hearing impaired players struggle with all the time I was confronted with indifference and even hostility. As much as these gaming companies posture about diversity and representation, their definition of diversity sure doesn't include people with disabilities.

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1 hour ago, ewenness.6482 said:

I tried to bring up in the past that for hearing impaired players following the story along becomes very difficult after your personal story ends because that's when the more static dialogue screens (the one with character standing in front of a painted background and the text appearing in the middle) come to an end. Since then we have had to rely on speech bubbles and the chat box which often become impossible to follow due to dialogue happening mid-combat where you just don't have the opportunity to look at the text.

 

I brought the point up at a time when people were asking when the unvoiced episodes will get voice acting because they just can't enjoy or follow the story along without voiced dialogue. When I mentioned that experience is what hearing impaired players struggle with all the time I was confronted with indifference and even hostility. As much as these gaming companies posture about diversity and representation, their definition of diversity sure doesn't include people with disabilities.

 

I am interested in learning more about your perspective of playing the game.

I've made several threads where I reviewed aspects of the game from a blind player's perspective.  There have been some actual changes based on what I've said, none of which were mentioned in patch notes.  They do listen if you give detailed and specific feedback.  Two of the changes I know off the top of my head are mount race checkpoints and The Lich, both of which have sound cues and better audio feedback.  The reace checkpoint change happened at least 2-3 years ago.  

They do listen, and I'm sure other player's are as curious about hearing impaired gameplay.

Also, someone on these forums built a directional mod for me so I know my cardinal directions while playing the game, all because of my posts on the forums.

 

 

back on topic:

I don't feel that GW2 lets me down at all.  There are so many audio cues and audio feedback that have been implemented since launch.  And any major complaints I've had in the past have since been patched (ninja style).

Thank you unidentified devs who made these changes!  Please continue making improvements to the character select screen (not a hint at all >_>)

 

 

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I feel like GW2 actually does a really fantastic job of accommodating my migraines and seizures. It’s the first game of its type I had been able to play since Kings Quest, Lemmings, Goblins, Day of the Tentacle, and most of all Myst. I had been playing Room Escape games and other flash games like Grow in the mean time, and playing board games like Dominion, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Betrayal at House on the Hill, Pandemic (ironically), Forbidden Desert, Seven Wonders, King of Tokyo, and Ticket to Ride. I had tried to play Diablo when it first came out and couldn’t really even look at it without having a migraine. I hadn’t had success with anything else since, not even Final Fantasy 14 or The Elder Scrolls Online. Guild Wars 2 does an amazing job! 

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15 hours ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

Why Games Are Still Letting Down People With Disabilities (forbes.com)

Reading this article, the first game that came to my mind was GW2. My biggest gripe is that there are so many bright flashing lights, like camera flashes, that cause pain and discomfort. Some players, like me, have sensitive eyes or constantly deal with eye fatigue. These flashing lights can cause pain and discomfort for players with sensitive eyes, can cause seizures and other serious issues to some players, and are just bad for everyone. Whether you adjust the lackluster in-game settings we currently have, adjust your monitor's settings, or use 3rd party softwares, there's just no way to reduce the brightness of these flashing lights to acceptable levels without making the rest of the game so dark that it's hard to see. Despite years of complaints and feedback, Anet has yet to address this issue, or even discuss this with players in meaningful ways.

  • Auto attacks by many professions cause subtle flashing lights that are much worse in certain conditions, such as when fighting next to walls due to light reflection (like when fighting inside buildings when doing human commoner personal story).
  • Many professions have skills that cause bright flashes. Some are so bad, I can't play those specs, at all. Engineer's Grenade Barrage causes bright flash. Scrapper and Holosmith have many skills that cause bright flashes. Firebrand also spams flashing lights. There are so many professions with flashing lights that cause pain.
  • Whenever Soulbeast exits beast mode (which happens every time the player mounts), a bright yellow flash displays. It may seem subtle, but if the camera is zoomed in, it can be quite painful and disorienting.
  • Whenever the players draws the legendary bow, Pharus, a bright pillar of light displays. Again, it's at its worst if the camera is zoomed in. The new cyberscale skin seems to have a similar effect from the videos I've seen. The EoD legendary greatsword also seems to cause a bright flashing light when drawn, based on early video preview.
  • The jackal and warclaw engage skills cause flashes.
  • Activating a Vista causes the whole screen to flash white.
  • Touching a Volatile magic in LS4 maps, or floating karma in IBS, causes a bright flash.
  • Using the Volatile mining tool causes a bright flash.
  • Ley-Line Anomaly encounter spams bright flashes at the players. Some of us avoid this event because of this.
  • The list goes on and on.

There are just so many of these issues in GW2, with no way for players to fix these without Anet's intervention. One solution could be to go over every single effect and reduce the brightness of these or make them more gradual. Another option is to include a slider. A slider to adjust the visibility of player's own effects (skill effects, legendary effects, infusion effects, mount engage skills, etc.), a slider to adjust the visibility of other players' effects, and a slider to adjust the visibility of environment effects (PVE enemies, environment effects, etc.). Sliders would kill 2 birds with 1 stone since it would also do wonders to reduce visual clutter so that large scale encounters aren't just shallow, mindless, and incomprehensible mess (while not related to medical issues, visual clutter is my 2nd biggest gripe in this game).

The flashing lights is just one of the problems this game can be frustrating for players with medical issues. I'm sure there are many more issues that other players also deal with. I think it's past time that Anet make some meaningful changes to the game to address some of these issues.

 

15 hours ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

Why Games Are Still Letting Down People With Disabilities (forbes.com)

Reading this article, the first game that came to my mind was GW2. My biggest gripe is that there are so many bright flashing lights, like camera flashes, that cause pain and discomfort. Some players, like me, have sensitive eyes or constantly deal with eye fatigue. These flashing lights can cause pain and discomfort for players with sensitive eyes, can cause seizures and other serious issues to some players, and are just bad for everyone. Whether you adjust the lackluster in-game settings we currently have, adjust your monitor's settings, or use 3rd party softwares, there's just no way to reduce the brightness of these flashing lights to acceptable levels without making the rest of the game so dark that it's hard to see. Despite years of complaints and feedback, Anet has yet to address this issue, or even discuss this with players in meaningful ways.

  • Auto attacks by many professions cause subtle flashing lights that are much worse in certain conditions, such as when fighting next to walls due to light reflection (like when fighting inside buildings when doing human commoner personal story).
  • Many professions have skills that cause bright flashes. Some are so bad, I can't play those specs, at all. Engineer's Grenade Barrage causes bright flash. Scrapper and Holosmith have many skills that cause bright flashes. Firebrand also spams flashing lights. There are so many professions with flashing lights that cause pain.
  • Whenever Soulbeast exits beast mode (which happens every time the player mounts), a bright yellow flash displays. It may seem subtle, but if the camera is zoomed in, it can be quite painful and disorienting.
  • Whenever the players draws the legendary bow, Pharus, a bright pillar of light displays. Again, it's at its worst if the camera is zoomed in. The new cyberscale skin seems to have a similar effect from the videos I've seen. The EoD legendary greatsword also seems to cause a bright flashing light when drawn, based on early video preview.
  • The jackal and warclaw engage skills cause flashes.
  • Activating a Vista causes the whole screen to flash white.
  • Touching a Volatile magic in LS4 maps, or floating karma in IBS, causes a bright flash.
  • Using the Volatile mining tool causes a bright flash.
  • Ley-Line Anomaly encounter spams bright flashes at the players. Some of us avoid this event because of this.
  • The list goes on and on.

There are just so many of these issues in GW2, with no way for players to fix these without Anet's intervention. One solution could be to go over every single effect and reduce the brightness of these or make them more gradual. Another option is to include a slider. A slider to adjust the visibility of player's own effects (skill effects, legendary effects, infusion effects, mount engage skills, etc.), a slider to adjust the visibility of other players' effects, and a slider to adjust the visibility of environment effects (PVE enemies, environment effects, etc.). Sliders would kill 2 birds with 1 stone since it would also do wonders to reduce visual clutter so that large scale encounters aren't just shallow, mindless, and incomprehensible mess (while not related to medical issues, visual clutter is my 2nd biggest gripe in this game).

The flashing lights is just one of the problems this game can be frustrating for players with medical issues. I'm sure there are many more issues that other players also deal with. I think it's past time that Anet make some meaningful changes to the game to address some of these issues.

To clarify, none of the listed problems have in general been an issue for me prior to this beta. In particular I love ley line anomalies and seek them out. 
 

I do not have epilepsy. I have psychogenic non epileptic seizures, which are treated by a neurologist and seizure meds with some success, and have physical triggers. 
 

i assume you can’t speak for all people with epilepsy. But the patterns that bother me may not even be the exact same patterns that bother the typical person with epilepsy. The time scale of my seizures is different (last an hour, 1 min convulsions at end). I have some memories. Possibly the timescale or nature of the flashes that bother me is also different. 

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You’re right. I can’t speak for all players with seizures, epilepsy, or anything similar. Different people have different triggers so each individual must let Anet know which effect is causing them issues and hope Anet fixes said issues. Since I don't deal with seizures or anything similar, I cannot give specifics on those effects.

Actually, I do have one thing that comes to mind. While my problem with flashing lights is that they cause pain to my eyes, the yellow flash that occurs whenever a Soulbeast exits beastmode is different. Sometimes, if my camera is zoomed in and I forget to not look, the yellow flash disorients me or something for several seconds. Once, I had a slight headache that lasted for several minutes. It's not just eye pain like the other flashing lights. I have no idea why this causes disorientation when others only cause eye pain, though.

Edited by BlueJin.4127
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I think part of the problem with a topic like this is you can't just talk about 'disabilities' as one thing, each one is different and it can be different for individuals with the same disability.

I can say that I've never felt like my dyslexia was a problem while playing GW2 (and it certainly can be with games), but I'd be hesitant to say that means the game is fine for all people with dyslexia because mine is relatively mild and I was diagnosed as a child so I've had decades of learning to deal with it to the point where some things I do are almost subconcious. It might also help that I'm a casual player so, for example, I've never tried to read the combat log while in combat because I don't need that kind of detail.

But I can say there are things GW2 does which I think will help anyone with dyslexia, some of which might well be design choices where they never considered disabilities, like the fonts used for text or having a map which actually reflects the terrain and a mini map on screen. (I don't really understand how the two are connected but I'm told having no sense of direction and trouble interpreting maps is related to dyslexia.)

Then there's some things where it's not bad but could be better. I often have to play with the sound turned off (my hearing is ok, but my PC is in a room which is often noisy and I can't wear headphones because I need to stay aware of what's going on around me) and in general I don't find that to be a problem. There are many games I can't play at all with the sound off because important things are only indicated by sound cues but GW2 is playable. But as someone mentioned further up this thread recent releases have introduced a lot of dialogue happening while you're moving, or even during combat and if the speech bubbles are off screen or disappear too quickly to read (I read slowly, because of dyslexia) you're left with just trying to follow it in the chat box. I have a tab for just NPC dialogue to help with that but often what I have to do is wait until the conversation is over and there's a pause in the action then stop what I'm doing to re-read it. Which is better than nothing but still not good.

One solution there could be an option for on-screen subtitles so instead of hoping you're facing the right way to see a speech bubble all the things you're supposed to hear/read are guarenteed to be on screen. (Ideally customisable subtitles, where you can change the size and whether there's a background behind the text.)

The one I think Anet do a good job with is colour blindness. I'm not colour blind but I know a lot of people who are, including some colleagues, so it's become one of those things I'm always looking out for and I can't remember a time when something in the game was colour-coded and didn't also have another marker, like a different shape or pattern.

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It would be one thing if they were deliberately making all parts of their game specifically to trigger epileptics, or in some other way designed for exclusivity. But they’re not. It would be one thing if they marketed it saying ‘we don’t want deaf people to be able to enjoy our game!’. But they’re not. 
 

this is a form of entertainment. No form of entertainment is going to be enjoyable or appropriate for all people. Nor is any form of art or entertainment obligated to be available/viable/affordable/any-other-number-of-things to any group of people. 
 

it is not ‘letting ANYONE down’ to make the game as it is. 
 

GW2/ANet does make strides towards inclusivity. And such a thing is to be commended. However, not doing so is also not to be condemned

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10 hours ago, genjonah.1253 said:

GW2/ANet does make strides towards inclusivity. And such a thing is to be commended. However, not doing so is also not to be condemned

    

This is something you'll only ever hear from someone who isn't having any problems themselves, and is completely incapable of understanding what other people go through in order to try and play games.    

     

When I first got into the playing the game, it was a time when both my wife and I left WoW to find something else. I stayed because I love this game; my wife tried it, and was unable to play because the combination of lights and something with the movement gives her extreme motion sickness. She's far from the only one who's had this problem with the game, and there's posts about it from the time that GW2 initially launched, but there aren't any real solutions to it. It hasn't really been addressed at any point.    

     

Of course she's been let down by the inability to address that problem with the game; it's a disservice to anyone who's had the same issue that it has gone unaddressed all these years, and it's disappointing to me because the person that I'd like to be enjoying the game with can't play it. It could be an issue of being unable to track down the exact cause of the issue, or that the budget doesn't support trying to address it for affected players, but this is virtually no different than a game breaking bug for the people affected and it shows a lack of empathy by certain people posting here to not even make a base effort to understand what they're going through.    

    

I have Parkinson's. Games that require fast button mashing are virtually impossible for me to play; I can't physically do it. There's a really simple fix that can be implemented for that problem, such as press and hold to complete those sequences; some developers choose to do it, and others don't.  I guess I don't buy that companies who choose to do nothing shouldn't be called out it.    

      

Try for just a second to put yourself in others' shoes and maybe you'll understand.

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14 minutes ago, tclark.8956 said:

    

This is something you'll only ever hear from someone who isn't having any problems themselves, and is completely incapable of understanding what other people go through in order to try and play games.    

     

When I first got into the playing the game, it was a time when both my wife and I left WoW to find something else. I stayed because I love this game; my wife tried it, and was unable to play because the combination of lights and something with the movement gives her extreme motion sickness. She's far from the only one who's had this problem with the game, and there's posts about it from the time that GW2 initially launched, but there aren't any real solutions to it. It hasn't really been addressed at any point.    

     

Of course she's been let down by the inability to address that problem with the game; it's a disservice to anyone who's had the same issue that it has gone unaddressed all these years, and it's disappointing to me because the person that I'd like to be enjoying the game with can't play it. It could be an issue of being unable to track down the exact cause of the issue, or that the budget doesn't support trying to address it for affected players, but this is virtually no different than a game breaking bug for the people affected and it shows a lack of empathy by certain people posting here to not even make a base effort to understand what they're going through.    

    

I have Parkinson's. Games that require fast button mashing are virtually impossible for me to play; I can't physically do it. There's a really simple fix that can be implemented for that problem, such as press and hold to complete those sequences; some developers choose to do it, and others don't.  I guess I don't buy that companies who choose to do nothing shouldn't be called out it.    

      

Try for just a second to put yourself in others' shoes and maybe you'll understand.

I have tons of problems and genjonah is right:

Essential Tremors

Fibromyalgia

Carpal Tunnel

Spotty Vision

Tinnitus

And I'm also on the autism spectrum.  The fact is that there's a lot of things that I don't do, and a lot of things I can't do.  To give a specific example, one of the reasons why I quit hosting Serpent's Ire regularly is because it gave me a headache, and it made me so exhausted that I would become dizzy.  It is unrealistic to expect the world to kneel down and deal with all of the bizarre quirks and pains I suffer from.  I cannot blame somebody for not accounting for the uniqueness of my own life.  

 

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It is true that games can't cater to everybody since so many different people have different issues, whether it's medical, financial, time constraints, or what not. I have fibromyalgia that makes it painful to play the game longer than 15 minutes at a time without adjusting positions or taking a break, so for me, any single instance that lasts longer than 15 minutes is something I try to avoid as much as possible. I don't ask that everything be shortened to less than 15 minutes because doing so would actually harm some aspects of the game. I just accept that this is something that I have to deal with on my own without forcing my problems on to other people.

The flashing lights are nothing like that, though. They add nothing to the game and there's no reason to stick to such unhealthy effects. A game is not going to be worse because it doesn't spam flashing lights at the player. There are plenty of ways to create beautiful effects. In fact, in a digital age where people are starting at screens too much, effects that cause less eye fatigue or options to tone them down would only benefit the game.

Edited by BlueJin.4127
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Hoping I didn’t just ask for a mud brown game with indistinguishable characters and actions… I actually do like visually interesting and distinct effects. I find them very helpful in addition to very beautiful. And beauty is an end in itself 

 

Edit: I know I made a post on another thread reporting a problem I was having with specific RHYTHMIC flashing (strobing)lights in Dragons stand during the beta that appeared to be bombs set off by a PC or NPC and also the Thunderhead Peaks meta which has lightning. I’ve been trying to explain on that thread that gamma and glow are not problems for me and neither is contrast and I don’t need lower graphics settings and in fact lower graphics settings haven’t even helped in other video games where I had the same problem. GW2 is generally very safe for me and I may just be able to avoid the issue. It’s come up a few times in six years of play. This is the ONLY context where I’ve had a significant problem in GW2 and I CAN avoid it. 

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I am super sympathetic to those of you who have greater limitations. Let me start there. I don’t play WvW because I can’t handle the stress. Stress can trigger seizures as well for me.

 

I also just want to make it 100% clear that as far as I am concerned, it is easier to see what is going on when there is greater contrast and brightness, and at least some glow. I feel like the greater gamma trend has made it easier to follow gameplay, for me. I have also invested quite a lot in fashion wars and love the look. I would be really really really disappointed to see this eliminated from both a utilitarian and an aesthetic point of view, for me specifically, or in general.
 

I am safe, as things stand, and it is not essential to fix the problem I mentioned. I am fine and can avoid it. 
 

thanks 
 


 

 

 

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On 12/4/2021 at 11:08 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

It is unrealistic to expect the world to kneel down and deal with all of the bizarre quirks and pains I suffer from.  I cannot blame somebody for not accounting for the uniqueness of my own life.  

    

The entire topic is about making the attempt.     

     

There can be reasons why it's not possible to accommodate certain disabilities, whether it's budgetary considerations, or just being unable to program to navigate the particulars of what one individual can and can't do.     

     

Despite that, gaming companies should be making the consideration of what can be done, and many are. Microsoft has designed controllers that have been designed specifically to help people with severe motor disabilities, it's becoming standard for games released in recent years to have accommodations for color blindness and other vision issues, there's the press and hold option for QTE's that I mentioned earlier, and so on. There are limitations to what programming can accomplish in order to deal with disabilities, but the person you're sticking up for (and your own reply) is just saying that it's not even worth trying. 

   

61 million people in the U.S. alone have a disability of some kind, and another 14 million in the U.K., which is probably a good indicator of why even the gaming companies themselves have decided that you're wrong and that it is worth the attempt to try and help people with disabilities play their games. 

     

 

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On 12/3/2021 at 2:20 PM, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I'm in favor of more settings that let people adjust and/or reduce visual noise (their own and that of other players) on their screens. It would be nice for people that have serious visual impairments and disabilities, but it would also be nice for me, a person who would like to be able to see enemy boss models once in a while.

This, so much.

I don't get why graphics options are so very limited in this game. You can't adjust sharpness, contrast or any standard options - you are forced to the use of third party add-ons. You can't even select post-processing separate from outlines (I would love to be able to use the former, but I don't want to use the latter).

The visual noise is truly the worst aspect about the lack of options, I hope they will get to it once DX11 is fully implemented.

Edited by Ashantara.8731
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9 hours ago, tclark.8956 said:

    

The entire topic is about making the attempt.     

     

There can be reasons why it's not possible to accommodate certain disabilities, whether it's budgetary considerations, or just being unable to program to navigate the particulars of what one individual can and can't do.     

     

Despite that, gaming companies should be making the consideration of what can be done, and many are. Microsoft has designed controllers that have been designed specifically to help people with severe motor disabilities, it's becoming standard for games released in recent years to have accommodations for color blindness and other vision issues, there's the press and hold option for QTE's that I mentioned earlier, and so on. There are limitations to what programming can accomplish in order to deal with disabilities, but the person you're sticking up for (and your own reply) is just saying that it's not even worth trying. 

   

61 million people in the U.S. alone have a disability of some kind, and another 14 million in the U.K., which is probably a good indicator of why even the gaming companies themselves have decided that you're wrong and that it is worth the attempt to try and help people with disabilities play their games. 

     

 

You're changing the subject.  This wasn't about potential profits.  You took issue with what genjonah said, which was that a company should not be condemned for not making attempts to accommodate the disabled.  You pulled the magic-knowledge card and tried to paint every disabled person as having your opinion on the matter, claiming that only the uninformed would think the way that genjonah does.  The implication here being that every company, particularly Anet, should be condemned for not accommodating for every single unusual quirk or deformity.  I take issue with this on many levels:

#1: Having whatever disability, deformity, disorder, etc, does not give you special knowledge or authority on the matter.  There's always internal blindness, absence of thought, absence of wherewithal, values in outside perspectives, etc.  Never trust anyone who tells you not to think.  For example, I spent most of my life having no idea that I was on the spectrum, but a psychologist was able to pick that up within 10 minutes of meeting me.  

#2:  There is no uniformity of politics, culture, or general opinions on life within the disabled demographic.  We aren't a community, and we aren't unified or connected in any way.  

#3: MMOs aren't a right, nor are they a privilege.  They're entertainment.  Circus.  Super-pretendy fun time, in an era where there is a massive surplus of super-pretendy fun times.  When confronted with a hobby, or a form of entertainment that one cannot find joy in, the average person just does something else.  This generally holds true for the non-average people as well.

#4: Artistic Integrity is worth considering.  Yes, flashing lights, brilliant colors, and loud noises are annoying or painful to all of us strange people but consider this: It isn't to everyone else.  If you take those away, you could be robbing other people of experiences that they like.  As another example, consider horror games, where squinting into the darkness is part of the game.  Having a high contrast mode for that would ruin the game.  Whenever the raid debate or the accessibility debate comes up, I always have to say the same thing: The difficulty of the content is itself the content.

#5: Genjonah has not said that it isn't worth trying.  Not even close.  At most, he makes the argument for artistic integrity and points out that this isn't a moral duty, which I agree wholeheartedly with.

#6: This article cited is a clear example of clickbait misandry.  It spends an inordinate amount of time talking about how female gamers are negatively affected by a toxic community, and it never brings up the statistics for the male side to show as a comparison, nor does it link to the study in question.  Without that comparison mark, you can make up whatever you want.  Just look at the weasel wording it uses:  "Over half of female gamers with disabilities (54%) say their pastime is often poisoned by fellow players, compared to 47% of those without;".  Emphasis is mine, because "often" can mean whatever the writer wants it to mean.  Those numbers are meaningless now. It tries to make a big deal between 54% and 47%, which is not a big deal.  The whole time reading it, I kept thinking of Thomas Sowells three questions: "Compared to what?  At what cost?  Show me the evidence," largely because the article addresses none of them.  This article is using the pretext of disabled people to sneak in the whole "Gamers are evil misogynists" angle.  Community issues are a far cry from brightness settings, and the leap from subtitles to sexism should raise an eyebrow of suspicion.  

Every virtue signal casts a vicious shadow.  It may seem like you're proclaiming all the good and true things in the world, but in reality you're emotionally pressuring people for having legitimate concerns that lead to their contrary assertions.  

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7 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

You're changing the subject.  This wasn't about potential profits.  You took issue with what genjonah said, which was that a company should not be condemned for not making attempts to accommodate the disabled.  You pulled the magic-knowledge card and tried to paint every disabled person as having your opinion on the matter, claiming that only the uninformed would think the way that genjonah does.  The implication here being that every company, particularly Anet, should be condemned for not accommodating for every single unusual quirk or deformity.  I take issue with this on many levels:

#1: Having whatever disability, deformity, disorder, etc, does not give you special knowledge or authority on the matter.  There's always internal blindness, absence of thought, absence of wherewithal, values in outside perspectives, etc.  Never trust anyone who tells you not to think.  For example, I spent most of my life having no idea that I was on the spectrum, but a psychologist was able to pick that up within 10 minutes of meeting me.  

#2:  There is no uniformity of politics, culture, or general opinions on life within the disabled demographic.  We aren't a community, and we aren't unified or connected in any way.  

#3: MMOs aren't a right, nor are they a privilege.  They're entertainment.  Circus.  Super-pretendy fun time, in an era where there is a massive surplus of super-pretendy fun times.  When confronted with a hobby, or a form of entertainment that one cannot find joy in, the average person just does something else.  This generally holds true for the non-average people as well.

#4: Artistic Integrity is worth considering.  Yes, flashing lights, brilliant colors, and loud noises are annoying or painful to all of us strange people but consider this: It isn't to everyone else.  If you take those away, you could be robbing other people of experiences that they like.  As another example, consider horror games, where squinting into the darkness is part of the game.  Having a high contrast mode for that would ruin the game.  Whenever the raid debate or the accessibility debate comes up, I always have to say the same thing: The difficulty of the content is itself the content.

#5: Genjonah has not said that it isn't worth trying.  Not even close.  At most, he makes the argument for artistic integrity and points out that this isn't a moral duty, which I agree wholeheartedly with.

#6: This article cited is a clear example of clickbait misandry.  It spends an inordinate amount of time talking about how female gamers are negatively affected by a toxic community, and it never brings up the statistics for the male side to show as a comparison, nor does it link to the study in question.  Without that comparison mark, you can make up whatever you want.  Just look at the weasel wording it uses:  "Over half of female gamers with disabilities (54%) say their pastime is often poisoned by fellow players, compared to 47% of those without;".  Emphasis is mine, because "often" can mean whatever the writer wants it to mean.  Those numbers are meaningless now. It tries to make a big deal between 54% and 47%, which is not a big deal.  The whole time reading it, I kept thinking of Thomas Sowells three questions: "Compared to what?  At what cost?  Show me the evidence," largely because the article addresses none of them.  This article is using the pretext of disabled people to sneak in the whole "Gamers are evil misogynists" angle.  Community issues are a far cry from brightness settings, and the leap from subtitles to sexism should raise an eyebrow of suspicion.  

Every virtue signal casts a vicious shadow.  It may seem like you're proclaiming all the good and true things in the world, but in reality you're emotionally pressuring people for having legitimate concerns that lead to their contrary assertions.  

Thank you. Again, I commended the idea that ANet is making strides. I am all for the idea of making it so that an individual can reduce the visual noise of their own screen, especially when it comes from other players. You are absolutely correct, especially on points 3 and 4

 

but having the flashes in and of themselves? That is not an attack on anyone. It’s artistic expression. And they are in neither obligated to change what they have made, nor immoral for not doing so.

 

 No one said it wasn’t worth trying. Keep attempted straw man’s and ad hominems out, please (not referring to bloodredarachnid)

Edited by genjonah.1253
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7 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

You're changing the subject.  This wasn't about potential profits.  You took issue with what genjonah said, which was that a company should not be condemned for not making attempts to accommodate the disabled.  You pulled the magic-knowledge card and tried to paint every disabled person as having your opinion on the matter, claiming that only the uninformed would think the way that genjonah does.  The implication here being that every company, particularly Anet, should be condemned for not accommodating for every single unusual quirk or deformity.  I take issue with this on many levels:

#1: Having whatever disability, deformity, disorder, etc, does not give you special knowledge or authority on the matter.  There's always internal blindness, absence of thought, absence of wherewithal, values in outside perspectives, etc.  Never trust anyone who tells you not to think.  For example, I spent most of my life having no idea that I was on the spectrum, but a psychologist was able to pick that up within 10 minutes of meeting me.  

#2:  There is no uniformity of politics, culture, or general opinions on life within the disabled demographic.  We aren't a community, and we aren't unified or connected in any way.  

#3: MMOs aren't a right, nor are they a privilege.  They're entertainment.  Circus.  Super-pretendy fun time, in an era where there is a massive surplus of super-pretendy fun times.  When confronted with a hobby, or a form of entertainment that one cannot find joy in, the average person just does something else.  This generally holds true for the non-average people as well.

#4: Artistic Integrity is worth considering.  Yes, flashing lights, brilliant colors, and loud noises are annoying or painful to all of us strange people but consider this: It isn't to everyone else.  If you take those away, you could be robbing other people of experiences that they like.  As another example, consider horror games, where squinting into the darkness is part of the game.  Having a high contrast mode for that would ruin the game.  Whenever the raid debate or the accessibility debate comes up, I always have to say the same thing: The difficulty of the content is itself the content.

#5: Genjonah has not said that it isn't worth trying.  Not even close.  At most, he makes the argument for artistic integrity and points out that this isn't a moral duty, which I agree wholeheartedly with.

#6: This article cited is a clear example of clickbait misandry.  It spends an inordinate amount of time talking about how female gamers are negatively affected by a toxic community, and it never brings up the statistics for the male side to show as a comparison, nor does it link to the study in question.  Without that comparison mark, you can make up whatever you want.  Just look at the weasel wording it uses:  "Over half of female gamers with disabilities (54%) say their pastime is often poisoned by fellow players, compared to 47% of those without;".  Emphasis is mine, because "often" can mean whatever the writer wants it to mean.  Those numbers are meaningless now. It tries to make a big deal between 54% and 47%, which is not a big deal.  The whole time reading it, I kept thinking of Thomas Sowells three questions: "Compared to what?  At what cost?  Show me the evidence," largely because the article addresses none of them.  This article is using the pretext of disabled people to sneak in the whole "Gamers are evil misogynists" angle.  Community issues are a far cry from brightness settings, and the leap from subtitles to sexism should raise an eyebrow of suspicion.  

Every virtue signal casts a vicious shadow.  It may seem like you're proclaiming all the good and true things in the world, but in reality you're emotionally pressuring people for having legitimate concerns that lead to their contrary assertions.  

 

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On 12/4/2021 at 6:34 AM, BlueJin.4127 said:

You’re right. I can’t speak for all players with seizures, epilepsy, or anything similar. Different people have different triggers so each individual must let Anet know which effect is causing them issues and hope Anet fixes said issues. Since I don't deal with seizures or anything similar, I cannot give specifics on those effects.

Actually, I do have one thing that comes to mind. While my problem with flashing lights is that they cause pain to my eyes, the yellow flash that occurs whenever a Soulbeast exits beastmode is different. Sometimes, if my camera is zoomed in and I forget to not look, the yellow flash disorients me or something for several seconds. Once, I had a slight headache that lasted for several minutes. It's not just eye pain like the other flashing lights. I have no idea why this causes disorientation when others only cause eye pain, though.

If you know that, then why are you zoomed in?

(can't help, but see the bike/stick meme here)

Edited by Sobx.1758
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