I can't help but feel massively underwhelming by EoD [Merged]

[Obtena.7952]

Totally weird to be underwhelmed by something you can't play. Actually, check that ... it makes COMPLETE sense to be underwhelmed by something you can't play. 

[LegendsOfTheWist.7591]

In terms of getting my thoughts out there, I feel very similarly.  I'm very concerned about End of Dragon's ability to deliver sustained, high quality content with a high degree of replayability (not unlike Path of Fire).  Lately, I've been questioning whether I even really want to know how EoD ends after how abrupt and messily they ended the IBS. 

I think ArenaNet has a core duality of problems.  The first is that they over-invest into quality content.  It sounds weird, but what I mean by that is that major releases result in huge swings in player excitement vs. player apathy.  This sort of development style where everyone occasionally gets a huge shiny has always seemed unsustainable to me.   Their unwillingness to compromise on quality  has meant that it's become difficult to sustain communities based on extremely infrequent releases such as 1 fractal/raid every year (or every 2 years...)

The second is their unwillingness to stick to their projects and build player communities around them.  They're always trying to innovate, re-invent the wheel and do things differently.  This isn't necessarily bad, per say, but it feels like ArenaNet is sort of conflicted about what type of game it wants GW2 to be and where it wants the game to go.   They seem to have a really difficult time deciding which features are important to them and following through.

I think Strike Missions represent a shift in thought; a compromise on quality for sustainable content creation.  Sure, maybe we won't get fully fledged raids or fractals, but what a Strike is or isn't doesn't have a clearly established definition.  Some of them are akin to mini-dungeons of sorts.  Nonetheless, I think it's important for ArenaNet to figure out how to churn out sustainable, cost-effective content for everyone.  That's my impression of what I imagine the core goal of End of Dragons to be (and why I'm waiting for them to follow through) ~ Summer 2022.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Take it easy, true there is a lack of additional features which aren't 'shallow' side stuff like I really expected new weapons or UW weapons on land etc. But nothing, or a new race with dominion of winds as a starting area (yeah won't go into this).

So we have some fluff stuff like fishing and skiffs and a new mount. It's okay I think. As long as the nostalgia is here - which until now - I feel, it's okay. Don't expect too much, play other games or enjoy life in other forms.

[Ashantara.8731]

21 hours ago, SirRocket.3516 said:

My complaints aren't that what's in the expansion aren't going to be fun, but I don't see how it'll help the game in the grander scheme of things.

It will help the game, because it is new content, first and foremost.

Its quality and longterm entertainment value cannot really be judged properly until we have played it.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[BlueTurtle.9263]

Yeah I feel the same way. I’m actually so disappointed by everything I’ve seen that I filed for a refund for EOD the other day after the latest guild chat.

 

Everything I’ve seen has just shown that this expansion isn’t worth $30 and I have really low standards for what I’d pay money for.

 

I was only excited for two of the elite specs and was going to make new characters just for them. Three others I was probably going change existing characters to have the spec but I’m also fine keeping them the way they are. The others I hate or hate the direction they’ve gone in since their first beta. Two elite specs is a far cry from the sales pitch PoF and HoT get with their specs and I don’t even like all of those.
 

I was excited for the siege turtle, I mean turtles are my favorite animal and it’s even my game name. But frankly what we got wasn’t all that great. It’s way too hard to steer and control and is just boring for the driver. I’d own it and upgrade just cause turtle but I’d probably never actually use it.

 

I would at least upgrade the turtle though which is more than I can say for the other masteries. Fishing is boring and was never going to be more interesting with a mastery system; it should have just been a mini game. Skiffs are boring and made obsolete by skimmers but could have at least been made interesting if we were able to build them up with weapons, or crafting stations, or other things but all we get is fishing and speed buffs. Arborstone is a useless afk hub and I’m not going to spend time and effort hunting down and acquiring mastery points just to upgrade that waste of space with vendors. Even if the unrevealed mastery is as game changing as gliding or mounts like an underwater combat overhaul that I was hoping for, it wouldn’t make up for the others.

 

On the note of underwater combat, where’s the undersea dragon? It’s the freaking logo of the expansion and we have gotten zero teasers or mention of it being integral to the plot. All we’ve got for story is pandering main characters and cliche antagonist motives. This is the biggest point for me because even if everything else sucked, I still bought the expansion for the story to see what happens but the plot they’re hinting at just makes me roll my eyes.

 

Basically all I wanted was that about half the elite specs to be interesting, one or two useful masteries, and the same good story telling they’ve had before and even with those low standards I’d only get a story I’d not want to play through, two elite specs and a mount I’d put in the work to own but never use and that is not worth $30. At this point I consider IBS more worth because we got some good farming maps, resources and vendors that complimented PoF and LSW4 content, a story I considered interesting (albeit with a disappointingly abrupt end), and waystation and mount stealth masteries, not to mention the strikes and other content other people care about more for basically 1/6th the price of an expansion (or even free if you unlocked via the return events).

 

So yeah, I filed for a refund. If the expansion actually turns out to be fine or a worthwhile living world that requires it comes out maybe I’ll buy it again but for now I’ve seen enough

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by BlueTurtle.9263
Clarified some points

[undouble.1472]

I guess that what I'd REALLY, REALLY, REALLY like to see is the ability to create NEW characters, with NEW storylines, in both the Crystal Desert AND Cantha.  Now that Cantha is becoming "reality" would be a GREAT time to introduce that aspect of PvE into GW2. An additional benefit would be to allow Human-type characters to BE Canthan, Krytan, or Desert Dwellers and run their OWN storylines merging at some far later point into the generic "Tyrian Tale".  After all, just how BIG a problem WERE the dragons, until those "nasty" Tyrians poked em' with a VERY sharp stick?? Neither the Crystal Desert nor Cantha seemed to have MUCH of an issue with any of them!!! Yeah, Joko WAS the Desert's "problem lich" and Cantha (well, after all these centuries of isolation, who really knows?) Seems like a VERY workable storyline issue IF ANET is willing to put in the time to develop it.

[Ashantara.8731]

8 minutes ago, undouble.1472 said:

[...] IF ANET is willing to put in the time to develop it.

If they haven't done it by now, they are not going to do it later.

[Pirindolo.9427]

I like to be concise: All we know so far about EoD is "more of the same" we already have. Maybe it's more... green.

[Faridah.8431]

20 hours ago, undouble.1472 said:

I guess that what I'd REALLY, REALLY, REALLY like to see is the ability to create NEW characters, with NEW storylines, in both the Crystal Desert AND Cantha.  Now that Cantha is becoming "reality" would be a GREAT time to introduce that aspect of PvE into GW2. An additional benefit would be to allow Human-type characters to BE Canthan, Krytan, or Desert Dwellers and run their OWN storylines merging at some far later point into the generic "Tyrian Tale".  After all, just how BIG a problem WERE the dragons, until those "nasty" Tyrians poked em' with a VERY sharp stick?? Neither the Crystal Desert nor Cantha seemed to have MUCH of an issue with any of them!!! Yeah, Joko WAS the Desert's "problem lich" and Cantha (well, after all these centuries of isolation, who really knows?) Seems like a VERY workable storyline issue IF ANET is willing to put in the time to develop it.

This ship sailed when ANET decided to make GW2 a game with multiple races instead of multiple starting areas/cultures for one race. As far as I am concerned, my player character is an Ascalonian Human, but this game will never acknowledge that in gameplay or story outside of the one specific interaction you get with Logan if you chose the missing sister path.

[undouble.1472]

As far as "Cantha" is concerned, NOW is the time to allow players to create NEW "CANTHAN" characters, with a CANTHAN storyline so as to make this a "REAL NEW WORLD"!! Otherwise, we're ALL just "Foreign Invaders" intent on changing US (the Canthan people) into just another version of themselves!!!!  After all, the Dragons are YOUR problem---------not ours!!! We get along with OUR dragons "just fine"------------so take YOUR troubles back to YOUR lands and solve them THERE!!!!  

 Should the story progression MAKE "dragons" EVERYONE'S problem, then merge the stories!! Else let the "true Tyrians" visit us-- calmly, sedately, with RESPECT for OUR traditions-----------------OR they can just "STAY HOME"!!!!!!!  Cantha too, MAY well "irritate" "THEIR" dragons to the point of needing to address them (to the grave!!) but let the story play out!! 

SUCH A CONCEPT!!!!!!   A NEW BEGINNING!!!!! to an ONGOING tale!!!!

[Artemis.8034]

Since im a casual player thats newer its not a problem for me. I dont follow a path in games really I play willy nilly, so I dont burn out on doing one thing over and over. I have lots I can do and have not seen in this game, my only peeve is dungeons. I love doing dungeon type content in games, and for some reason no one does that here. I have not even seen but one dungeon. Maybe they can incentive dungeon play. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

2 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Since im a casual player thats newer its not a problem for me. I dont follow a path in games really I play willy nilly, so I dont burn out on doing one thing over and over. I have lots I can do and have not seen in this game, my only peeve is dungeons. I love doing dungeon type content in games, and for some reason no one does that here. I have not even seen but one dungeon. Maybe they can incentive dungeon play. 

Checked the LFG, especially when a Dungeon is a Daily?

Here's a list of where you can find Dungeons: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeon#List_of_dungeons

There's a map at the top of this page, as well. 

[voltaicbore.8012]

@SirRocket.3516, I get the sentiment of your OP. I said more or less the same thing in a bunch of other places- I bought EoD because I like having access to the full game, but I felt absolutely no enthusiasm for it. The livestreams didn't help either; if anything, they showcased a disappointing disconnect between our experience of the game as players, and their experience of it through their development clients.

Over time I've made my peace with the situation. It's like when I bought my first new car about 7 years ago. For a time in was explicitly happy to get in, start it up, and drive it around. 7 years later, I still like the car quite a bit, but that feeling of excitement and novelty has been replaced by a quieter sort of affection. I'm grateful it's run so well with zero issues, I get slightly worried if it makes an odd noise or a warning light flashes on, and I'm more careful not to push it into doing things I know it's not engineered for.

Buying EoD is like buying a more expensive engine air filter for my car (which I recently did). I did it as an act of commitment, to keep the car running as smoothly as it has so far- but it brings no excitement whatsoever. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by voltaicbore.8012

[mistsim.2748]

This expansion is just bad value. I think I'll pay a bit extra and just buy Elden Ring, and clock about 1k hours playing Lost Ark for free. That's basically my gaming plan for 2022. Seriously though, as someone with over 4k hours in GW2, I'm very underwhelmed by EoD. I wish the game and its fans all the best...I get nothing out of seeing GW2 underperform. But 2022 is extremely competitive.

[sorudo.9054]

for what i have seen is that they made the list of features for EoD within an hour and rushed it, they pretty much add nothing really new.

fishing is just another crafting profession, the turtle is nothing but a glorified way to force teaming up, the elite specs are an absolute nightmare and we still have nothing improved.

the worst of this is that they add yet another currency, yet another mastery line and yet more empty achievements.

 

even while i would love to see cantha (being a veteran GW player) i don't want it to take away man power when the core game needs fixing big time.

it's widely known that GW2 has no immersion, till now only 1 single map did well and they screwed that map up with war.

[Gibson.4036]

I’m so curious. What is the one and only good map?

[Ashantara.8731]

On 12/17/2021 at 8:29 PM, mistsim.2748 said:

This expansion is just bad value. I think I'll pay a bit extra and just buy Elden Ring, and clock about 1k hours playing Lost Ark for free. That's basically my gaming plan for 2022.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Ashes of Creation. Hopefully my account will be ready to participate in the second alpha.

In the meantime, there are still so many RPGs, adventures, shooters and puzzles I have had waiting for me on Steam for quite some time now. I'll hop into one of them for the rest of the evening for sure (until the latest episode of "Bull" airs here ... sorry, I'm a sucker for all things Michael Weatherly).

1 hour ago, sorudo.9054 said:

even while i would love to see cantha (being a veteran GW player) i don't want it to take away man power when the core game needs fixing big time.

it's widely known that GW2 has no immersion, till now only 1 single map did well and they screwed that map up with war.

I don't see how anything regarding currencies and the like will ever be taken care of when even basic things like severe gravity bugs, or Rev skill order issues, or dynamic events stalling aren't high on the priority list.

As for immersion: looks like the Echovald Wilds meta will also be all about warfare. It would be cool if it felt anything like the Kurzick vs Luxon PvP in GW1.  Also, at least Arborstone seems to have a feel of immersion.

  

2 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I’m so curious. What is the one and only good map?

They probably meant Drizzlewood Coast. And they didn't say it was the best map but the only one with some kind of immersion, because of its deep player involvement.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Gibson.4036]

Ah, I see, the only immersive map in the whole game. Odd.

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Ah, I see, the only immersive map in the whole game. Odd.

Not my opinion. 😉 I merely translated for you. 😄

Edit: Also, I think they might have been referring to the Icebrood Saga, not the whole game. I could be wrong.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Gibson.4036]

16 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Not my opinion. 😉 I merely translated for you. 😄

Edit: Also, I think they might have been referring to the Icebrood Saga, not the whole game. I could be wrong.

Seems like a pretty accurate translation. Thanks.

[psyt.9415]

 

On 12/4/2021 at 10:33 AM, SirRocket.3516 said:

EDIT: To all people that are thinking this is doom and gloom and I'm just stomping my feet because I didn't get what I wanted it's not. I'm just disappointed and wanted to vent. I've spent a good amount of time on GW2 over the years so yeah as a human you get invested. I think EoD is gonna be fun, no doubt a lot of work has gone into it, but I just can't help but feel it's not really adding anything the game needs and that just leaves me feeling a bit 😕 . I'm not trying to push down anyone's enthusiasm for the expansion, all this is, is a personal expression and opinion of an individual.

 

 

Yea I got the same feeling. I actually was kind of hoping the elites would be Asian themed. There isnt a single one that really excites me if I'm being 100% honest. I was hoping Kaenining would have some sprawl to it and be maze like, like the first one and require unlocks and exploration to get around. I love HOT maps now that I have a mount. I guess I really wanted more GW1 Cantha.

Game play loop is pretty stale for me to. Im tired of a map, some currency to grind and some skins. I feel like the turtle and skiff were added more by them asking  in the boardroom how do we sell skins rather then will this be fun and I hope they get fleshed out more with more to do with them like running trade packs or having sea combat in WvW or something.

This game will never grow by following the WoW instanced group model. Simple reason being is this game has minimal gear progression. There is no real farm phase to compel people to keep running this stuff once they have tried it a handful of times if they have legendries or ascended. The stat bump is minimal anyway so your not really compelled to farm it so it will stay niche. I like it I just dont have a strong reason to farm it like gearing up for raids because once you hit that ascended bar thats really it unless you're a skin hunter  unlike other progression based MMOS. 

I think they should just embrace more life sim aspects from New world or Black Desert like player housing with more fun things to do in it related to the economy, crafting furniture etc.. A proper economy off of farming plots, caravan building, ship building, real trade posts you can trade goods between cities or something from, pirating, flagable pvp in the open world with bounties on players etc.. People are here for the open world and yet they are super uncreative in that aspect. Its like we get a handful of meta / trains and some hp sponges to beat up every month and some achievement and that's the content. This is the only mmo I actively open the achievement panel to look for stuff to do. Not because I'm a achievement hunter but because that's all there is to do half the time. Put some sandbox systems in and let the players be the content. We got more of the same but I feel like the formula is getting stale at this point.

And for God Sakes let every elite be playable and viable. Im tired of them power creeping the kitten out of new specs to force you to play them.

Edited December 22, 2021 by psyt.9415

[Ashantara.8731]

14 hours ago, psyt.9415 said:

Yea I got the same feeling. I actually was kind of hoping the elites would be Asian themed. There isnt a single one that really excites me if I'm being 100% honest. I was hoping Kaenining would have some sprawl to it and be maze like, like the first one and require unlocks and exploration to get around. I love HOT maps now that I have a mount. I guess I really wanted more GW1 Cantha.

Ditto to all those things.

14 hours ago, psyt.9415 said:

Game play loop is pretty stale for me too

It is.

14 hours ago, psyt.9415 said:

This is the only mmo I actively open the achievement panel to look for stuff to do. Not because I'm a achievement hunter but because that's all there is to do half the time.

Very true. And once you are done with those (like I am), trust me, you become bored quickly.

14 hours ago, psyt.9415 said:

I think they should just embrace more life sim aspects from New world or Black Desert like player housing with more fun things to do in it related to the economy, crafting furniture etc.. A proper economy off of farming plots, caravan building, ship building, real trade posts you can trade goods between cities or something from, pirating, flagable pvp in the open world with bounties on players etc.. People are here for the open world and yet they are super uncreative in that aspect.

That is the problem: GW2 does not want to have any of those aspects, because all other MMORPGs have them. 🤨

Admittedly, we don't need housing per se, because what you can do with your virtual homes in other MMOs is pretty much the same as what you can do with guild halls in GW2, just on a larger scale (storage, decoration, daily farming nodes etc).
 

But your criticism regarding the lack of immersion is warranted. Are the map designs beautiful? No doubt. Are maps properly populated with wildlife and NPCs? I would say so. But does that world feel alive, breathing, like an integral, meaningful part to your gaming experience that holds something for you beyond farming nodes, doing hearts, getting hero points and visiting all the vistas and points of interest for map completion? No, not really. I have rarely played a game where, for instance, enemy (re)spawns feel so predictable. Meta events also are exactly the same all the time, have to be planned the same way and are always done according to the same formula with no aspect of variation, which also kills their "magic" in a short time.

You can traverse a whole GW2 map with a technical plan in your head on how to approach it best ("Go from A to B, then C", and so on). It feels more like math than true exploration, leave alone adventure. That's why it isn't immersive after you have uncovered everything once - you feel driven by the need for completion rather than adventure, curiosity and excitement. That's why the replayability value of GW2's open world content is so low. Instanced content isn't that much better, because once the community has mastered it, it's always the same approach, the same "math" used to beat it.

That's why new MMORPGs strive to have that element of surprise and constant change, because a never changing world gets stale and boring quickly (as does the lack of new, exciting goals for your characters), especially for those veteran players who open their Achievements tab and find nothing left to do. 😉

Edit: P.S. Come to think of it, I only remember three instances where I truly felt immersed and excited in the open world: the Dwarven ruins and puzzles in the snowy northwest of the Desert Highlands with their many secrets, like those hidden rooms and and gorgeous caves where you could find pieces of weaponry that would let you combine them into ancient dwarven weapons; that was so awesome! Then there's the guitar-playing Itzel in Verdant Brink; no biggy, but such an unexpected addition. And the spooky library dungeon in Bjora Marches, of course, with its Raven test and treasures. We need more stuff like that - tons more.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[psyt.9415]

Yep really enjoyed the Derelict Delve that was some great game design and the jumping puzzles are a great GW2 pioneered feature to would love more of those. The main draw is the open world give us more open world things to do. This game is not and never will be a lobby raiding dungeon game, there is no progression to chase. Love the game its probably my most played game of all time since ive played pretty steady since release. Art team and world design is world class. They need to just embrace  what this game does well in the open world and its not more hp sponge bosses  and grinding map currency.

To your point above id still love player housing and more interactive gardening around my house. We may have a guild hall but I had no input in its design because im not a guild leader. I want my own slice of heaven and to build my furniture and exterior decorations with my own crafting skill or buy from others off the trading post and to hunt for design patterns in the world. They can do some premium decorations to I don't care but I enjoy building things.

Edited January 13, 2022 by psyt.9415

[Vayne.8563]

On 12/5/2021 at 5:22 AM, SirRocket.3516 said:

This is kind of the problem no?

 

Anet have built a game way to big for them to even support, so why add more content that will develop a community for it to be dropped?

It's not a problem.  There aren't enough people raiding to make more raids. Anet said so themselves, or a dev did anyway. If not enough people by percentage are raiding, why is it a problem not to invest more in that.   

Every game has things they do well and things they do less well.  FF XIV is one of the top MMOs right now, but no one talks about their PvP.  That's how it works.  No single game has a budget to do everything well, so in many cases it's better to focus on your strengths.

[piitb.7635]

The most common complaint I see about EoD are

"There are no new features" 

 

"Why aren't there new features?"

 

"Features features features!"

 

 

But what features can they add?  Only thing I can think of is player housing, which is nothing but a superficial cosmetic that eats up server space and has no actual bearing on how the game is played and is just another grind.  A feature a lot of players have no interest in.