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I can't help but feel massively underwhelming by EoD [Merged]


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4 hours ago, piitb.7635 said:

The most common complaint I see about EoD are

"There are no new features" 

 

"Why aren't there new features?"

 

"Features features features!"

 

 

But what features can they add?  Only thing I can think of is player housing, which is nothing but a superficial cosmetic that eats up server space and has no actual bearing on how the game is played and is just another grind.  A feature a lot of players have no interest in.

 

I don’t really get this, either. If I get a sequel to a single player RPG, it’s because I want more content in the same world with the same gameplay I enjoyed. I don’t expect a new Divinity : Original Sin or Pillars of Eternity to have a bunch of new mechanics, I just want a new installment.

Is GW2 just the victim of its prior success? The last two expansions just implemented new mechanics so well that it’s the expectation now?

I don’t remember this kind of “where’s the new features?!” clamor in other MMOs I’ve played.

Edited by Gibson.4036
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EDIT: To all people that are thinking this is doom and gloom and I'm just stomping my feet because I didn't get what I wanted it's not. I'm just disappointed and wanted to vent. I've spent a good amou

You are not the only one that's underwhelmed on this expansion. It's refund wars 2 now.

This is kind of the problem no?   Anet have built a game way to big for them to even support, so why add more content that will develop a community for it to be dropped?

2 hours ago, piitb.7635 said:

The most common complaint I see about EoD are

"There are no new features" 

 

"Why aren't there new features?"

 

"Features features features!"

 

 

But what features can they add?  Only thing I can think of is player housing, which is nothing but a superficial cosmetic that eats up server space and has no actual bearing on how the game is played and is just another grind.  A feature a lot of players have no interest in.

 

You're going to bring this up like you can't come up with better things to try and sell a expansion on over skiff and fishing? You don't think they could've added more weapon types people have been wanting like land spears, polearms, greataxe weapon types , or something akin to a new race(never going to happen i guess)? Building and revitalizing more upon the otherwise abandon guild system activities? Heck there's polymock arena/minipet battles, that people in the past wanted back then too. Those are all big ticket expansion worthy features I can think of, off the top of my head. 

Look, out of the 23k hours I have on this game I really loved this game to death, but kitten I'd be lying out of my teeth if I were to say that I haven't been de-hyped for EoD. The only good thing I can say is  nice addition is the siege turtle 2 seater mount, maybe wvw alliances(we'll see about this, but so far it's been a bit rough), and more legendries.  Everything else feels insignificant(I don't see myself fishing and skiffing for more than 10 minutes) or half baked(E-specs especially) in a effort to try and rush out a expansion because the jump from S4 to S5(IBS) and the slew of other things did not meet whatever criteria they were aiming for.  SO not only that but it also feels like this expansion was overdue, and is somewhat already underdelivering for the amount of time people waited for it, since PoF. 

The open world pve and story content will probably be good/alright. But dang I just feel so drained and disinterested in EoD rn despite it being so close, with the way the game has been handled It's hard to stay optimistic, unless you're a fresh new player or just oblivious to the rest of the game.  

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5 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

You're going to bring this up like you can't come up with better things to try and sell a expansion on over skiff and fishing? You don't think they could've added more weapon types people have been wanting like land spears, polearms, greataxe weapon types , or something akin to a new race(never going to happen i guess)? Building and revitalizing more upon the otherwise abandon guild system activities? Heck there's polymock arena/minipet battles, that people in the past wanted back then too. Those are all big ticket expansion worthy features I can think of, off the top of my head.

They would never add new weapon types because that would require not only adding multiple new weapon types(to add a mix between the various classes) but they would also have to balance them for everything released thus far, as well as add new powers for existing elite specs, and rework all the trait lines, or add new trait lines, to have traits for these new weapons. That's far more work then making a new elite spec, but also adds less new real content then an actual new elite spec adds because it wouldn't be adding new mechanics like elite specs do. It would just be adding a new object to whack people with like a vanilla weapon.

New races would require going back and recording dialogue for over 9 years of content, which just isn't reasonable.

And Polymock is a less major feature then fishing/skiffs are. Fishing and skiffs can be used anywhere in the game with water. Polymock/mini battles would just be a festival tier activity like the bell choir that the vast majority of people would do a few times, then forget.

Fishing, boats, and co-op mounts ala the Skimmer and Siege Turtle, are far bigger features, that add more to the game, then what you listed here.

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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7 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

They would never add new weapon types because that would require not only adding multiple new weapon types(to add a mix between the various classes) but they would also have to balance them for everything released thus far, as well as add new powers for existing elite specs, and rework all the trait lines, or add new trait lines, to have traits for these new weapons. That's far more work then making a new elite spec, but also adds less new real content then an actual new elite spec adds because it wouldn't be adding new mechanics like elite specs do. It would just be adding a new object to whack people with like a vanilla weapon.

New races would require going back and recording dialogue for over 9 years of content, which just isn't reasonable.

And Polymock is a less major feature then fishing/skiffs are. Fishing and skiffs can be used anywhere in the game with water. Polymock/mini battles would just be a festival tier activity like the bell choir that the vast majority of people would do a few times, then forget.

Fishing, boats, and co-op mounts ala the Skimmer and Siege Turtle, are far bigger features, that add more to the game, then what you listed here.

The new weapons could be new elite spec specific to avoid having to add trait lines and powers for all classes tho.

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10 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I don’t remember this kind of “where’s the new features?!” clamor in other MMOs I’ve played.

Because other MMOs get a good amount of content with each expansion while GW2 has always been far below industry standards. Maybe HoT came close, PoF wasn't even trying. EoD? can't even hit PoF levels it seems. 

While GW2 always failed to deliver on quantity of content, at least the features were innovative and gameplay defining like gliding or mounts. This time there's fishing and that's about it really.

Few LS maps, bit of singleplayer story, skiffs that are borderline useless , 1 new niche mount, fishing minigame, underwhelming elite specs. That's EoD in a nutshell. Oh and lot of oversaturated green colors, almost forgot.

Edited by witcher.3197
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31 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

Because other MMOs get a good amount of content with each expansion while GW2 has always been far below industry standards. Maybe HoT came close, PoF wasn't even trying. EoD? can't even hit PoF levels it seems. 

While GW2 always failed to deliver on quantity of content, at least the features were innovative and gameplay defining like gliding or mounts. This time there's fishing and that's about it really.

Few LS maps, bit of singleplayer story, skiffs that are borderline useless , 1 new niche mount, fishing minigame, underwhelming elite specs. That's EoD in a nutshell. Oh and lot of oversaturated green colors, almost forgot.

Huh?

PoF objectively has more content then HoT. And GW2's expansions are pretty normal for MMOs besides like.... WoW, but WoW can't be reasonably compared to.

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

The new weapons could be new elite spec specific to avoid having to add trait lines and powers for all classes tho.

That would mean having to limited an entire Xpack's worth of elite specs to just 1-2 new weapons, massively limiting the sort of mechanics/features they can do with them. Which would be a worse situation then the current elite specs are in.

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

They would never add new weapon types because that would require not only adding multiple new weapon types(to add a mix between the various classes) but they would also have to balance them for everything released thus far, as well as add new powers for existing elite specs, and rework all the trait lines, or add new trait lines, to have traits for these new weapons. That's far more work then making a new elite spec, but also adds less new real content then an actual new elite spec adds because it wouldn't be adding new mechanics like elite specs do. It would just be adding a new object to whack people with like a vanilla weapon.

New races would require going back and recording dialogue for over 9 years of content, which just isn't reasonable.

And Polymock is a less major feature then fishing/skiffs are. Fishing and skiffs can be used anywhere in the game with water. Polymock/mini battles would just be a festival tier activity like the bell choir that the vast majority of people would do a few times, then forget.

Fishing, boats, and co-op mounts ala the Skimmer and Siege Turtle, are far bigger features, that add more to the game, then what you listed here.

For new weapons, you do know even some current weapons don't have any trait association right? See Elementalist Staff, Scepter, Rev staff, hammer and so on and so forth. So i don't see how that reasoning holds up. With the way they handle balance anyways it's a gradual long stew process of tuning. For the most part too I'm not saying it's to replace E-spec release, it's to be released alongside it. 

The thing with a new race if you look at it like in that way of recording dialog,  yes that's unreasonable especially when some of that 9 year content has already been abandoned, though there can always be a compromise like not incorporating the level 1-80 core story experience, and having the race exclusive story to the expansion it is in. The real work is putting into the cosmetics and animations, including a permanent additional load to their core 5 races.    

That's just it though, those features are things that I'd expect to take a lot of work/large undertaking. To say they would never be added because IT REQUIRES WORK, just tells me there's no longer any intent for innovation or delivering more of what people wanted of the game. Food for thought, you know what else they say they'd never add? Mounts. What did we get in PoF? Mounts.

As for the bolded, I guess specifically to open world only, it does nothing for WvW/PvP/Fractals/Strikes which are also a part of the game. more weapons in general would help vary your gameplay/playstyle/builds across multiple modes. A new race if the work was put in would have another expansion tailored story, more cosmetic opportunity along with more player variety across modes,   Fishing I don't think is really adding anything other than a novelty minigame that'll be cool for like 15 minutes, and another food ingredient. You can have the point about mini pet battles though I can't see myself playing minipet battles for the long term, but it's something I'd find more interesting than fishing tbh. 

My forecast is EoD is going to be the most Underwhelming/Underdelivering rushed expansion, of the three, because that's what all the signs point to. I've been hyped for every expansion, but for this one I've been tremendously disinterested in it as I learned more and more about how it was coming along. Though it doesn't matter what I say, only after launch when a majority of people have actually played through the entirety of it, will we see how the expansion is actually received.  

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I have always seen expansions as new content, not new game mechanics.    GW2 did add gliders, and mounts in the previous expansions, and are adding boats & fishing to this one.  Some small but welcome additions, but mostly it is new maps and new content.  I would not expect an expansion to be a new game...  I guess they could have added Assassins and Ritualists, but then they would be accused of copying GW. 😎

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1 hour ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

For new weapons, you do know even some current weapons don't have any trait association right? See Elementalist Staff, Scepter, Rev staff, hammer and so on and so forth. So i don't see how that reasoning holds up. With the way they handle balance anyways it's a gradual long stew process of tuning. For the most part too I'm not saying it's to replace E-spec release, it's to be released alongside it. 

The thing with a new race if you look at it like in that way of recording dialog,  yes that's unreasonable especially when some of that 9 year content has already been abandoned, though there can always be a compromise like not incorporating the level 1-80 core story experience, and having the race exclusive story to the expansion it is in. The real work is putting into the cosmetics and animations, including a permanent additional load to their core 5 races.    

That's just it though, those features are things that I'd expect to take a lot of work/large undertaking. To say they would never be added because IT REQUIRES WORK, just tells me there's no longer any intent for innovation or delivering more of what people wanted of the game. Food for thought, you know what else they say they'd never add? Mounts. What did we get in PoF? Mounts.

As for the bolded, I guess specifically to open world only, it does nothing for WvW/PvP/Fractals/Strikes which are also a part of the game. more weapons in general would help vary your gameplay/playstyle/builds across multiple modes. A new race if the work was put in would have another expansion tailored story, more cosmetic opportunity along with more player variety across modes,   Fishing I don't think is really adding anything other than a novelty minigame that'll be cool for like 15 minutes, and another food ingredient. You can have the point about mini pet battles though I can't see myself playing minipet battles for the long term, but it's something I'd find more interesting than fishing tbh. 

My forecast is EoD is going to be the most Underwhelming/Underdelivering rushed expansion, of the three, because that's what all the signs point to. I've been hyped for every expansion, but for this one I've been tremendously disinterested in it as I learned more and more about how it was coming along. Though it doesn't matter what I say, only after launch when a majority of people have actually played through the entirety of it, will we see how the expansion is actually received.  

Anet never said no mounts it was players like me who said they were not needed with the numbers of waypoints each map had.

What Anet said was there would be no mounts at release of the base game, thats a very different statement.

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9 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Huh?

PoF objectively has more content then HoT.

Hot:

  • New maps with metas that are still popular today
  • Story
  • Raids
  • New PvP gamemode with a new map
  • New WvW map

PoF:

  • Maps that died a week after release
  • Story

I don't see where that "objectively more content" is hiding.

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Now when I think of it they maybe wanted to make a compromise. Everything introduced by this expansions is very low impact. Fishing and boats are extremely niche so they will possibly go even unnoticed for many players. The especs are strictly worse than the existing to not shake up the meta so these will not see much play either. Kind of like a no-impact expac to not destroy the game further

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It's really flabbergasting how entitled a lot of GW2 players are. You want to know pain? You want to know boring? Play almost every other MMO. FFXIV, for example which, beyond my comprehension, is extremely popular. I just finished their newest expac and guess what? Almost nothing to do after you complete the story(the story and music is pretty good tho imo). They do NOT have meta events. They do NOT have fun group content. They give you FOUR arena-style 8-man fights every 6 months and one easy-mode 24 man every 6 months.  And unlike GW2, the previous tiered fights become immediately outdated after the new ones come out due to archaic vertical progression. You guys complain about masteries. Masteries are one of the best things about GW2. 

GW2 has more content in A SINGLE MAP than FFXIV has post-story questline. Don't get me started on their classes. They have no identity anymore. Instead, the jobs are relegated and forced into roles. No way to customize whatsoever. You are either a tank, a melee dps, a ranged physical dps, a magic dps, or a healer no matter what. At least ANET focuses on profession identity and gives people options on builds, etc. You guys need some perspective. 

Edited by Einsof.1457
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2 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

It's really flabbergasting how entitled a lot of GW2 players are. You want to know pain? You want to know boring? Play almost every other MMO. FFXIV, for example which, beyond my comprehension, is extremely popular. I just finished their newest expac and guess what? Almost nothing to do after you complete the story(the story and music is pretty good tho imo). They do NOT have meta events. They do NOT have fun group content. They give you FOUR arena-style 8-man fights every 6 months and one easy-mode 24 man every 6 months.  And unlike GW2, the previous tiered fights become immediately outdated after the new ones come out due to archaic vertical progression. You guys complain about masteries. Masteries are one of the best things about GW2. 

GW2 has more content in A SINGLE MAP than FFXIV has post-story questline. Don't get me started on their classes. They have no identity anymore. Instead, the jobs are relegated and forced into roles. No way to customize whatsoever. You are either a tank, a melee dps, a ranged physical dps, a magic dps, or a healer no matter what. At least ANET focuses on profession identity and gives people options on builds, etc. You guys need some perspective. 

 

While a lot of this is true, we should be fair in the comparison.  FFXIV main draw is its story, which is a country mile ahead of every other MMO in terms of presentation and quality.

 

FFXIV subscriptions wax and wane because of this.  A lot of people will resub to see new parts of the story then take a break until the next portion is released.

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1 hour ago, piitb.7635 said:

 

While a lot of this is true, we should be fair in the comparison.  FFXIV main draw is its story, which is a country mile ahead of every other MMO in terms of presentation and quality.

 

FFXIV subscriptions wax and wane because of this.  A lot of people will resub to see new parts of the story then take a break until the next portion is released.

I did point that out, which is why I swing back every year or so. Coming from gw2, a lot of my thought when playing FFXIV (outside of story content) is how much I wish the world felt alive like it does in gw2.

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10 minutes ago, Einsof.1457 said:

I did point that out, which is why I swing back every year or so. Coming from gw2, a lot of my thought when playing FFXIV (outside of story content) is how much I wish the world felt alive like it does in gw2.

 

 

I'm in the same boat, but also throw in ESO in the conversation. 

 

That has kind of like the middle ground, but does not do story better than FF14 or open world  or combat better than GW2.

 

The MMO market just seems so ripe for the picking, but no game can just bridge the gap and do everything well, so they fall into their own niche

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19 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

Hot:

  • New maps with metas that are still popular today
  • Story
  • Raids
  • New PvP gamemode with a new map
  • New WvW map

PoF:

  • Maps that died a week after release
  • Story

I don't see where that "objectively more content" is hiding.

Pof:

Story

New maps(I agree they mostly faded out but the pof LS maps are still active.)

New raid

Mounts

Bounties

New guild hall

 

Not sure if I missed anything else but I would say it's comparable. Ironically EOD seems to be adding more than pof either in new things or expanding what's currently there.

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On 12/4/2021 at 10:15 AM, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Some players asked for Housing, some players asked for Fishing.  Some got what they wanted, some did not. 

Some players asked for more Fractals, more Raids; some asked for more Strikes. Some got what they wanted, some did not.

Some players want more maps, more exploration, more collections; some want something else.  Again, some get what they want from End of Dragons; some do not.

🤷‍♂️

We have player housing....people want "customized" player housing but all this comes from a competent  and unified team with a vision of what they can accomplish lead by a strong game director.....so yeah. We just NOW got 2 department heads to try to lead us forward so any benefits from that is probably 6 months to years away. They do need to find that sweet spot of repeatable content and story. ANET allegedly has over 250 employees but it seems like its turning out content on an indy level. I don't get it sometimes.

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8 minutes ago, Sarge shot Grif.6450 said:

I mean I'm mostly waiting to judge it until it's released but I will be forever bitter that we got fishing as a main feature (lol) instead of something substantial like housing, a new race or even new weapons.

That and the less than epic ending or Jor and Prim. Fade to white during the pinnacle moment?!

NO, WE ALL WANT TO SEE THE ACTUAL MUTUAL DESTRUCTION IN ITS ENTIRETY.

The players deserved that at least.  If more reveals are coming that's great but I am excited AND worried.

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1 hour ago, Serephen.3420 said:

Pof:

Story

New maps(I agree they mostly faded out but the pof LS maps are still active.)

New raid

Mounts

Bounties

New guild hall

 

Not sure if I missed anything else but I would say it's comparable. Ironically EOD seems to be adding more than pof either in new things or expanding what's currently there.

Adding things, adding things people want and adding things that are groundbreaking are certainly different things. I do also want to point out the ceiling that exists per game. After gliding and mounts what more beyond that can they create that is within that parameter of possible creation. They are game devs after all not gods.

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16 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

It's really flabbergasting how entitled a lot of GW2 players are. You want to know pain? You want to know boring? Play almost every other MMO. FFXIV, for example which, beyond my comprehension, is extremely popular. I just finished their newest expac and guess what? Almost nothing to do after you complete the story(the story and music is pretty good tho imo). They do NOT have meta events. They do NOT have fun group content. They give you FOUR arena-style 8-man fights every 6 months and one easy-mode 24 man every 6 months.  And unlike GW2, the previous tiered fights become immediately outdated after the new ones come out due to archaic vertical progression. You guys complain about masteries. Masteries are one of the best things about GW2. 

GW2 has more content in A SINGLE MAP than FFXIV has post-story questline. Don't get me started on their classes. They have no identity anymore. Instead, the jobs are relegated and forced into roles. No way to customize whatsoever. You are either a tank, a melee dps, a ranged physical dps, a magic dps, or a healer no matter what. At least ANET focuses on profession identity and gives people options on builds, etc. You guys need some perspective. 

I'd say less entitled and more tough love. I think many people criticize because of how much we like this game. We want it to do better and it should be doing better and it kind of isn't and its disappointing so of course we are going to air that out on the forums. You should be even more worried when the forums stop filling up with opinions because that is when players REALLY don't care any more.

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13 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Adding things, adding things people want and adding things that are groundbreaking are certainly different things. I do also want to point out the ceiling that exists per game. After gliding and mounts what more beyond that can they create that is within that parameter of possible creation. They are game devs after all not gods.

I am aware of this, I wasn't arguing against pof here.

There isn't much in the way of major new features they could add. More so do what they said they planned to do after hot which was expand on what they had and add more content. The groundwork has already been laid in the previous two expansions. EOD's test won't be what new mechanical features it has but rather the quality/quantity of its available content. As well as replayability. 

Edited by Serephen.3420
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19 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

Now when I think of it they maybe wanted to make a compromise. Everything introduced by this expansions is very low impact. Fishing and boats are extremely niche so they will possibly go even unnoticed for many players. The especs are strictly worse than the existing to not shake up the meta so these will not see much play either. Kind of like a no-impact expac to not destroy the game further

I agree, for better or worse it does seem EOD is this compromise between the firings, covid, leadership shake ups, being told to do an expansion thereby dooming IBS, verse current resources and personnel. But even with all those good reason to justiy what is released- the content will get no free pass in harsh critiques regardless. Just hope they weather this jade storm.

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1 hour ago, Sarge shot Grif.6450 said:

I mean I'm mostly waiting to judge it until it's released but I will be forever bitter that we got fishing as a main feature (lol) instead of something substantial like housing, a new race or even new weapons.

I asked for housing and fishing.  Glad to be getting one of them.  And if housing is instanced - I have no interest in it.  So fishing is probably better anyway.  The way the servers are set up, open world housing would not work well. 😎

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