Feedback from a roamer

[Gehenna.3625]

Hi,

I've come to enjoy WvW as a roamer. I don't do well in guilds and groups (I have personality disorders) but I found a way to contribute and enjoy WvW. Since this beta started the fun stopped for me. Anything I would be able to do before as a roamer or a small group of randoms, can now expect a bored guild group craving for content to come by and wipe me/us in less than 2 seconds. There is no balance between sides, with one side clearly being dominant to the point that I joined a tag that was able to take back stoic rampart (after 10 attempts) because they were preoccupied for a moment and then they just came back and wiped us with a group of 30+ and retook our garrison, within two minutes . We're outnumbered on most maps as it is except EBG which has a queue. But these groups of 10-30+ enemies are there on every map seemingly all the time, so every map you keep running into these groups that just do their rounds around the maps flipping everything without contest and stopping most attempts from our side and they're running around the maps because there's nothing else to do for them.

I'm just a roamer, I get that, but it can't be good for more dedicated WvW'ers either to have a side that's so dominant that they get bored and just start going around the map looking for anything they can kill. I just feel that with this alliance business there will be a lot of balancing issues that will result in this same scenario and then people might not want to play WvW at all anymore.

Anyways just my feedback, I don't know much about WvW perhaps but I do know that I don't like it anymore since the beta started. /shrug.

[Dawdler.8521]

The beta has changed literally nothing for roamers. 

A kitten matchup is a kitten matchup regardless of it being links or the alliance system. It's just extra kitten at the moment because instead of rising to the challenge people are being total drama queens over the same kitten that's been occuring for years and years.

[subversiontwo.7501]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Anything I would be able to do before as a roamer or a small group of randoms, can now expect a bored guild group craving for content to come by and wipe me/us in less than 2 seconds.

So what you're actually complaining about is that now there is balance and there is content, because you were used to playing on something that was completely dead or just rolled over your opponents so hard that they wouldn't fight back, letting you fight doors all the time? The bored "anyone" is supposed to try to come wipe you in WvW.

If you choose to play at smaller scale, being outnumbered is part of the challenge and the fun. That stands in sharp contrast to whoever else has been Outnumbered without making that choice in the past, with a system less able to make Outnumbered go away.

Edited December 5, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501
Yes that capital letter illustrates a point

[Wolf.2596]

There are people out there like me who only bother with WvW or PvP,  because most dailies all but require it. I dislike the fact that you have to be running around with a bigger group to accomplish almost anything. Land claimer and taking out yaks are about the only achievements that are soloable for most people...but they've been impossible since this fiasco of a beta started. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Wolf.2596

[subversiontwo.7501]

57 minutes ago, Wolf.2596 said:

Land claimer and taking out yaks are about the only achievements that are soloable for most people...but they've been impossible since this fiasco of a beta started. 

Wolf needs his personal achievement-hunting points. Understandable, we should let WvW be bad for everyone else just to accomodate this. He is the commander of the pact after all, the most important commander.

[Telgum.6071]

Two things:

First, an organizing guild rolling over your small group of players is how this works, at least since I started playing WvW it was already like that, that's the result of each dps player having up to two supports. This isn't new.

Second, what you listed here has nothing to do with Alliances.

[Telgum.6071]

1 hour ago, Wolf.2596 said:

There are people out there like me who only bother with WvW or PvP,  because most dailies all but require it. I dislike the fact that you have to be running around with a bigger group to accomplish almost anything. Land claimer and taking out yaks are about the only achievements that are soloable for most people...but they've been impossible since this fiasco of a beta started. 

Have to double post to answer this... Dude, I don't think Anet gives a kitten about your dailies. This is about world restructuring, not about Tequatl players hunting dolyaks.

[ASP.8093]

4 hours ago, Wolf.2596 said:

There are people out there like me who only bother with WvW or PvP,  because most dailies all but require it. I dislike the fact that you have to be running around with a bigger group to accomplish almost anything. Land claimer and taking out yaks are about the only achievements that are soloable for most people...but they've been impossible since this fiasco of a beta started. 

It's literally been one day.

 

The thing you're complaining about is entirely the result of higher player volume, not the new (partial) matchmaking. Because, get this…

people…

are participating…

in a stress-test beta.

[Gehenna.3625]

11 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

So what you're actually complaining about is that now there is balance and there is content, because you were used to playing on something that was completely dead or just rolled over your opponents so hard that they wouldn't fight back, letting you fight doors all the time? The bored "anyone" is supposed to try to come wipe you in WvW.

No that's not what I said at all. Try not to let your bias get in the way of your reading skills. There is currently no balance at all and so because there is no resistance at all these groups have free reign and only encounter us roamers. I'm used to being wiped by larger groups from time to time, but not all the time because these groups have nothing better to do. Our side is currently dead except on one map. That's not an improvement but rather is worse than the old situation.

11 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

If you choose to play at smaller scale, being outnumbered is part of the challenge and the fun. That stands in sharp contrast to whoever else has been Outnumbered without making that choice in the past, with a system less able to make Outnumbered go away.

I'm talking about the "outnumbered" status of a map. All 3 home maps I went to last night had the "outnumbered" icon on and EBG had a queue. Clearly that means that our side didn't have the numbers and therefore consolidated on one map. 

I'm used to having one map having the "outnumbered" status from time to time...not 3 maps at the same time. So it's actually the opposite of what you say.

 

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

It finally puts the Nail in coffin for me. I just log on to do dallies now. No incentive for defending just kills the whole fun for me.

Even in zerg vs zerg, You basically eat each other's tail. Exp players know what to do and newb left behind tailing and zerg kills tails of each of other and rinse and repeat. There is not even true zerg vs zerg. It's basically feed your newb to us and we do the same.

[subversiontwo.7501]

4 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

No that's not what I said at all.

 

In all honesty, that's exactly what you said. In fact, you said both things. On the one hand you're right that the outnumbered buff suggests that something is wrong as the new system is meant to better even out populaces. However, with just two days the sample size is far too small to draw any conclusions from.

The way you phrased your posts it also seems that you yourself is not involved enough as to give conclusions as to why (ie., had you been a member of a guild [or just a server community that tallies this for their population over the beta] the first thing you'd do was likely assess what other guilds and groups had ended up on your world, to give you a sense of the world's overall shape). I don't mean that as a slight, you say the same thing about yourself in your post.

I'm just trying to show you how you, in that sense, differ from eg., as the first thing I did when I logged in was probing the chats to get a sense of who was around, asked in my guilds, among friends and even had one of my old server discs running an overview of where the server-community's groups each had ended up and how they got matched (with renaming guides for wvwstats etc.).

On the other hand you complained about your group of randoms facing a guild or that you lost your garrison to a group of 30 in under 2mins. Those things say more about you or the shape of your world than the opposition or the population distribution of the worlds in general. That's something anyone faces in a lopsided matchup, regardless of system and the examples you brought up does not sound impossible to surmount.

Edited December 5, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[Nukk.3492]

I prefer to roam also. I also understand why some players prefer to blob.

The problem is that blobbing has no real incentive other than to go from fort to fort over-capping each other. Apart from Stomemist and home Garrisons, there is very little defending going on, just blobs avoiding each other flipping each others forts.

I feel like there should be some system where you have an added incentive (points / rewards) at specific intervals to defend or take a specific objective on the map so that there is more three way blobbing around specific objectives and less blobs running over the map flipping objectives intended for smaller parties.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[subversiontwo.7501]

16 minutes ago, Nukk.3492 said:

I prefer to roam also. I also understand why some players prefer to blob.

The problem is that blobbing has no real incentive other than to go from fort to fort over-capping each other. Apart from Stomemist and home Garrisons, there is very little defending going on, just blobs avoiding each other flipping each others forts.

I feel like there should be some system where you have an added incentive (points / rewards) at specific intervals to defend or take a specific objective on the map so that there is more three way blobbing around specific objectives and less blobs running over the map flipping objectives intended for smaller parties.

You're thinking about it the wrong way. In terms of PPT it is already better to spread out to cap. Hitting one objective at a time is always worse than hitting two or three, assuming you can take the objectives. No objective is challenging to take with 15-25 players.

What rather makes groups moving around in one large blob taking objectives one at a time comes down to PPT being regarded as irrelevant due to population imbalances (both overall and specifically at offhours).

The reality is that little defending goes on as little ambition goes on due to these issues and having one guy tow around 49 other guys is far less demanding that organising into multiple groups. In many cases those 49 guys also do very little to help the 1 guy so overall the mode sees less and less of those 1 guys. This is a large contributing reason as to why we get alliances, so players can organise and raise ambition a bit. The steps beyond alliances involve scoring and rewards which will also help this.

In many cases the players who call themselves "roamers" are more accurately among those 49 guys who tag along with the 1 guy without giving him much help. They complain about alliances because it gives that 1 guy more options to find 49 guys who are more helpful. In some cases they may even be players who defend things by themselves, disliking the new system because defending against 1 blob of 50 is, by account of this, easier than defending against 4 guilds of 15. Those groups of 15 hitting more objectives also means they hit more smaller objectives, drawing the ire of players who feel those objectives are intended for them 😉.

Edited December 5, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[reddie.5861]

22 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The beta has changed literally nothing for roamers. 

A kitten matchup is a kitten matchup regardless of it being links or the alliance system. It's just extra kitten at the moment because instead of rising to the challenge people are being total drama queens over the same kitten that's been occuring for years and years.

hmm i dont agree, yes at some points nothing changed but what did change and what did made biggest impact for me (just logged in ones after months today) i do not know any of the names that roam around also, i do not know if one is a roamer or a blob guy trying to get somewhere i do know the guy " skill"   lvl so i cant figure if we can handle fight together i dont know anything.

if u play long enough on a server u know the names u know what one is capable of you know if they got your back you know alot while some might think roamers do everything solo thats kitten but w/e.

but yes in most situations not much changed but u just cant relay anymore on people as you have no idea what their mind set is.

and quite often roaming turns into small scale fights where knowning ur allies mindset and what he can handle is giving u quite a upper hand.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, reddie.5861 said:

hmm i dont agree, yes at some points nothing changed but what did change and what did made biggest impact for me (just logged in ones after months today) i do not know any of the names that roam around also, i do not know if one is a roamer or a blob guy trying to get somewhere i do know the guy " skill"   lvl so i cant figure if we can handle fight together i dont know anything.

if u play long enough on a server u know the names u know what one is capable of you know if they got your back you know alot while some might think roamers do everything solo thats kitten but w/e.

but yes in most situations not much changed but u just cant relay anymore on people as you have no idea what their mind set is.

and quite often roaming turns into small scale fights where knowning ur allies mindset and what he can handle is giving u quite a upper hand.

If you just logged in after months then your world probably have a new link. A ton of people have left and arrived. *You* where gone, do you think that impacted the gameplay of all the others for not seeing your name? That's kind of a sad way to look at the future of GW2, roamers being the cause of other roamers leaving just because they cant see their names anymore.

Learning the names of new players around you is a continuous thing. Nothing changed on that side. Also there is a word for this exact feeling of recognition and a home that you describe. A guild.

[AliamRationem.5172]

When I play WvW it's only to roam, usually solo or with a friend.  In my experience, any time there's a special event (e.g. double XP, WvW beta test, etc.) things get a little too busy and action for solo players becomes a bit scarce.  This will probably be less of an issue once the population normalizes.

[yourexcellency.1458]

This sounds like the match I'm in the teams are totally imbalanced. I usually like to play all aspects of wvw but this has been an absolute misery. Last night I popped on briefly to check it out again and we were out numbered on every map EBG included.  I'm just grabbing my dailies in pvp and finding other stuff to do until this is done. I really hope they look at the very clear balancing issues. 

[Counterakt.9106]

18 hours ago, reddie.5861 said:

hmm i dont agree, yes at some points nothing changed but what did change and what did made biggest impact for me (just logged in ones after months today) i do not know any of the names that roam around also, i do not know if one is a roamer or a blob guy trying to get somewhere i do know the guy " skill"   lvl so i cant figure if we can handle fight together i dont know anything.

if u play long enough on a server u know the names u know what one is capable of you know if they got your back you know alot while some might think roamers do everything solo thats kitten but w/e.

but yes in most situations not much changed but u just cant relay anymore on people as you have no idea what their mind set is.

and quite often roaming turns into small scale fights where knowning ur allies mindset and what he can handle is giving u quite a upper hand.

Well said. As a roamer I always judge when to retreat or when to fight based on the people around me. Alliances totally ruins that for me.

[xhizito.6935]

I dont get why anet is making this alliances wich are only guild sided when participation of guilds in wvw are only for 2-3 hours each day (with exceptions ofc), and only to fight between guilds, not to ppt (not that I care), not to defense/save objectives, only to camp the wp zone and figh, 3 hours after reset there is nothing all guilds gone in every server, now I wanna know how is the matchmaking for un-guilded ppl, cuz I'm used to be outnumbered all the time, but the scrubs I'm stuck with it's just horrible, 3 days so far since beta started and I only saw 2 kitten guild that can't win anything playing for 2 hours after reset and then gone, back to be outnumbered all day long, and I can't fight against 10-15.

 

I would like to know what is the intention on this alliances changes? cuz if is guild sided then let me tell you this, it won't change anything, alliances or not nothing will change, it will always be unbalanced, someone will always be outnumbered, but atleast with the servers you can choose where to go, but now I was randomly put with unskilled ppl that kill the game for me.

[xhizito.6935]

-

Edited December 7, 2021 by xhizito.6935

[Counterakt.9106]

1 hour ago, xhizito.6935 said:

I dont get why anet is making this alliances wich are only guild sided when participation of guilds in wvw are only for 2-3 hours each day (with exceptions ofc), and only to fight between guilds, not to ppt (not that I care), not to defense/save objectives, only to camp the wp zone and figh, 3 hours after reset there is nothing all guilds gone in every server, now I wanna know how is the matchmaking for un-guilded ppl, cuz I'm used to be outnumbered all the time, but the scrubs I'm stuck with it's just horrible, 3 days so far since beta started and I only saw 2 kitten guild that can't win anything playing for 2 hours after reset and then gone, back to be outnumbered all day long, and I can't fight against 10-15.

 

This is exactly why Anet is killing this game with alliances. Guilds have a scheduled time when they come out to play, play for 1-2 hours (or unless they get rolled by a larger guild and the commander rage quits).  In a regular server guild play is like only 20% of the the game all day. Rest 80% is just people running around loosely behind pugmanders. Pugs and pugmanders kinda have a feel for each others game play the longer they play together in a server. Pugmanders kinda know the quality of pugs at different times of the day and know whether the given set of people will push or get one pushed and play accordingly. Same with pugs we know if the pugmander will retreat or fight, or side step, does he have people pushing with him or not, does he like to ppt or fight. This comes from playing in the same server for a really long time. 

Luckily there is a REALLY GOOD EASY TO IMPLEMENT SOLUTION!!! Really hope some dev reads this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

• Leave the servers alone, just balance the guilds. If you don't choose a guild you get left alone in your home servers. 
• Whatever remaining space is in the server, fit guilds/alliances into it based on theirs size.
• Pugmanders/Roamers get to be in their home servers 
• Guildies don't get separated from each other.
• No one can stack servers
• EVERYONE IS HAPPY. WIN - WIN !!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Littlekenny.4196]

7 hours ago, Counterakt.9106 said:

This is exactly why Anet is killing this game with alliances. Guilds have a scheduled time when they come out to play, play for 1-2 hours (or unless they get rolled by a larger guild and the commander rage quits).  In a regular server guild play is like only 20% of the the game all day. Rest 80% is just people running around loosely behind pugmanders. Pugs and pugmanders kinda have a feel for each others game play the longer they play together in a server. Pugmanders kinda know the quality of pugs at different times of the day and know whether the given set of people will push or get one pushed and play accordingly. Same with pugs we know if the pugmander will retreat or fight, or side step, does he have people pushing with him or not, does he like to ppt or fight. This comes from playing in the same server for a really long time. 

Luckily there is a REALLY GOOD EASY TO IMPLEMENT SOLUTION!!! Really hope some dev reads this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

• Leave the servers alone, just balance the guilds. If you don't choose a guild you get left alone in your home servers. 
• Whatever remaining space is in the server, fit guilds/alliances into it based on theirs size.
• Pugmanders/Roamers get to be in their home servers 
• Guildies don't get separated from each other.
• No one can stack servers
• EVERYONE IS HAPPY. WIN - WIN !!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From my experience, only on one server, pugmanders are still in guilds so with your system would still go with the guild and not with the roamers (unless their guild also chose no guild to stay with the home server)

[Nikola.3841]

I was going to make post like this one, then saw this post, and I can only +1 to it
They made zerg game even more zergy...only thing you can do now is stop playing,

or join your own zerg and do some PVD...then again, what to hell all those zergers find

interesting bashing doors or 10vs1 other people...I never found uneven fights any fun,

even if I'm on "winning" side

[Gehenna.3625]

On 12/5/2021 at 3:49 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

In all honesty, that's exactly what you said. In fact, you said both things. On the one hand you're right that the outnumbered buff suggests that something is wrong as the new system is meant to better even out populaces. However, with just two days the sample size is far too small to draw any conclusions from.

No you replied with this:

"So what you're actually complaining about is that now there is balance and there is content"

 

I didn't say there was balance, in fact I said the exact opposite. How you can argue that 3 maps having the status of "outnumbered" means that there is balance, is just bizarre.

 

[subversiontwo.7501]

5 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

No you replied with this:

"So what you're actually complaining about is that now there is balance and there is content"

 

I didn't say there was balance, in fact I said the exact opposite. How you can argue that 3 maps having the status of "outnumbered" means that there is balance, is just bizarre.

 

It sounds to me like you're not used to that. Which means you've probably paid to transfer somewhere that always has more players than others.

The fact remains that the new system is likely to produce more balanced matchups than the old system. That is what it is designed for. Whatever you feel right now is completely irrelevant.

I've been on servers under the old system that commonly suffers that for years and years, you see it for an unknown amount of time over a couple of days and go ballistic about it. That does not give credibility to your complaint.

The issue that you describe (being outnumbered when you play) can also be answered by a number of things, not the least of which is that your world may be stronger in another time zone or that it mostly plays weekdays and that your matchup is still balanced when taking a full week into account. You can probably go to some meta-site and look at how balanced your matchup is overall.

Even if your matchup remains skewered you need to look at it as one matchup among every other matchup as well to determine whether the new system is objectively better than the old system. How you feel about it remains irrelevant, especially if you've done nothing to try to affect it like starting a guild to organise players or put up a tag to get people who won't play without one to play. You may have players, you may just not have the tags to make the pug-reliant players play. That's a possibility whether you personally prefer to roam or not. Maybe your beta world even has a disc so you can enquire about it. Have you looked for a disc?

Orient yourself on your world and give a compelling reason as to why you don't have players and maybe more people will take you seriously.

Edited December 7, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501