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Give us Language Choices and respect them for the next Beta


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To me it seems critical for the acceptance of the Allianz System (in the german forum a lot of people like to trash the whole alliance system due to it) that we cannot only choose a guild but also a language preference, that is respected in the linking. Please include that in the next beta or the opposition against the Alliances will grow even more.

 

Maybe even a pop-up with more choices than just the 4 localisation languages (e.g. Russian, Polish, Portugese, ...).

Which languages are needed?

Edited by Dayra.7405
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That's only a small part of the solution, as 3 alliances, many allianceless guilds and a lot of randoms that cannot express a choice are linked as well. It would be nice if alliances, guilds and guildless could express their preferences.

 

Also Mega-Server and current linking prefer putting people together that choose the same language/language-World.

Edited by Dayra.7405
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15 minutes ago, Dayra.7405 said:

To me it seems critical for the acceptance of the Allianz System (in the german forum a lot of people like to trash the whole alliance system due to it) that we cannot only choose a guild but also a language preference, that is respected in the linking.

I guess all german language servers were already linked in the past with non-german language servers. Why is this now a new topic?

I am on a (originally) german language server and we were linked a lot with english/multilanguage servers. It worked and still works quite well and we have bilingual leads (english and german at the same time) a lot.

Edited by Zok.4956
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14 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

I guess all german language servers were already linked in the past with non-german language servers. Why is this now a new topic?

First Linking was strictly language and that was bad.

Then Language was shortly ignored and that was bad too.

Currently the world-Linking tries to link the same languages together.

Current Links:

  • + Abaddon's Mouth (DE), Kodash (DE)
  • + Drakkar Lake (DE), Dzagonur (DE)
  • + Elona Reach (DE), Miller's Sound (DE)
  • - Riverside (DE), Ring of Fire (EN)

Last Links:

  • - Abaddon's Mouth (DE), Blacktide (EN)
  • + Drakkar Lake (DE), Kodash (DE)
  • + Elona Reach (DE), Miller's Sound (DE)
  • - Far Shiverpeaks (EN), Dzagonur (DE)
  • + Riverside (DE)

It isn't strict, but hardly just by chance that DE server are linked together.

 

Edited by Dayra.7405
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I'm German, on a German server and WvW was the last place where I could chat in German.

 

Apart from the fact that some players aren't well in foreign languages (see the complains on the German forum - you won't find those ppl here) there are also many that may have no problem with English in general but prefer their native language.

 

You can't relate?

 

I've no prob with English in chat.

I have a prob with English in voice. Listening, and speaking is even worse.

 

But WvW ist also the place in which voice chat brings a great advantage when in a squad.

When my server was linked with non-DE servers, I used voice chat only for listening, never said a word, used the text chat if I had to inform my squad of something (with delay that way ofc), and I hoped that I understood everything well enough to follow orders and suggestion.

Didn't always work. But worked well enough to get the stuff done.

My game itself is in German too, so I often have to think what the commander, or others, mean. It's not always communicated in direct translation but whatever is common to name it on that server.

 

Some have a site with explanations linked in their TS or Discord. But seriously who reads a FAQ before playing?

 

I didn't play much when linked to non-DE servers. I played much more when linked to German servers. Because it is just cool and fun and natural to chat with others in your native language, even more so when they're from your country. (German speaking players include players from Austria and parts of Switzerland.)

 

Whatever, I think it's understandable if people prefer their native languages. I already was pissed about the megaserversystem in PvE. I chose a German server, when creating my account, for a reason.

 

I want to keep the system like it is now if any update only means disimprovements to me.

Edited by Lucy.3728
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53 minutes ago, Lucy.3728 said:

You can't relate?

Sure I can relate.  I was thinking the same when they mixed my german language server with international (or french language) servers.

But that was a long time (years, I guess) ago.  And now it just works on my server. Players that only want (or can) write german, write geman in chat and all others write english or english/german. Some leads are english-only, some leads are german-only and some are both at the same time (which seems strange at first, but after a while it feels natural).

And: Is "[somewhere] 25+ blue" really so much harder to write/learn than "[irgendwo] 25+ blau"? I don't think it is.

And now in this beta-week I see more french and spanish in chat, too. Don't know what it means exactely. But important info is written also in english. So no problem at all.

Edited by Zok.4956
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2 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Sure I can relate.  I was thinking the same when they mixed my german language server with international (or french language) servers.

But that was a long time (years, I guess) ago.  And now it just works on my server. Players that only want (or can) write german, write geman in chat and all others write english or english/german. Some leads are english-only, some leads are german-only and some are both at the same time (which seems strange at first, but after a while it feels natural).

And: Is "[somewhere] 25+ blue" really so much harder to write/learn than "[irgendwo] 25+ blau"? I don't think it is.

And now in this beta-week I see more french and spanish in chat, too. Don't know what it means exactely. But important info is written also in english. So no problem at all.

 There are plenty Peoples which are 50+ and didn't had english in shool. 

A checkbox for languages would be a great addition. 

The confirmation bias is strong in your post. 

Edited by Grebcol.5984
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1 hour ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

 There are plenty Peoples which are 50+ and didn't had english in shool. 

A checkbox for languages would be a great addition. 

 

I am not against a checkbox, but I do not think it will really work. If Anet wants to distribute the player population evenly, it probably will not be possible that players will only see their preferred language in chat.

Teams will be created from alliances, guilds, players. Guilds can chooses alliances, players can choose guilds. The chosen WvW guild will be the only criteria, only players that have not chosen a guild maybe can be distributed to teams by language-preference, but this would only work if alliances have also set a preferred-language.

No one would prohbit players to create an alliance with a preferred language. And for the next Beta: Just create a community guild and join it in time.

Actually, you should read what I wrote and how it worked in my server-example: You are still free to write in your preferred language and you can still join leads in your preferred language. No one is forcing you to write english.

Sure, if you make map announcements, more people understand if you would make those in english. But thats only a handful of english words to learn. If my friends that are 60+ can learn those few words then those 50+ kids you mentioned can learn those few words, too.

I think the problem is more of a culture shock, that is strong now on very few servers that were not multilingual yet. It will calm down as soon as they realize, they can adapt and the world does not end just because there is also some english in map chat.

Edited by Zok.4956
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6 hours ago, Dayra.7405 said:

To me it seems critical for the acceptance of the Allianz System (in the german forum a lot of people like to trash the whole alliance system due to it) that we cannot only choose a guild but also a language preference, that is respected in the linking. Please include that in the next beta or the opposition against the Alliances will grow even more.

 

Maybe even a pop-up with more choices than just the 4 localisation languages (e.g. Russian, Polish, Portugese, ...).

Which languages are needed?

First of all, the german wvw forum is pretty dead .. so "a lot of people" equals like 5 people.

The alliance system is about balancing player population, language restrictions won't allow that. You may stick to a "single language alliance" but don't expect the "new worlds" to have just one language. ;)

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11 minutes ago, Reztek.7805 said:

First of all, the german wvw forum is pretty dead .. so "a lot of people" equals like 5 people.

The alliance system is about balancing player population, language restrictions won't allow that. You may stick to a "single language alliance" but don't expect the "new worlds" to have just one language. 😉

true. german wvw forum is not only dead but the people complaining overthere are not even representative at all for the german wvw community (i am german) .

every other gw2 game mode is english except when you play with your national guild. Why should wvw be a difference? play with your german guild (and later german alliance) and everything is fine. play without it, and everything is english like when doing spvp, fractal pugs, open world metas etc.

they could add a languge preference for a wvw team and try to keep same language people together if possible. But only if it does not disturb the match making process too much. (on the other hand that would be annoying for international people who get put as randoms into a team which is mostly german.

Edited by Handtuch.6503
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That's good to know. 🙂

I guess after the last beta they just wanted to see if they could get it to work at all.

I wonder if we'll have a way of choosing the language we want to be sorted by or if it will be automated in some way. For individual players it could be based on the language they have the game set to use, but for guilds it would be nice if the leader could specify a language. I guess we won't know until we see the actual UK for setting up alliances and joining teams, but hopefully there will be a choice.

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On 12/5/2021 at 8:36 PM, Handtuch.6503 said:

every other gw2 game mode is english except when you play with your national guild. Why should wvw be a difference? play with your german guild (and later german alliance) and everything is fine. play without it, and everything is english like when doing spvp, fractal pugs, open world metas etc.

That's your experience.

When I started playing everything was in German. Open world, fractals, wvw anyway.

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6 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

There are 44 countries in Europe alone, the vast majority of them have their own language.

The question is more: Which languages have enough WvW-players to fill up a complete Team?

Edited by Dayra.7405
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8 hours ago, Dayra.7405 said:

The question is more: Which languages have enough WvW-players to fill up a complete Team?

I quite frankly don't think any should.

One good thing about alliances (the function) when it comes is that it enables the ability to create relatively broad language communities and strike a balance between not having people to talk to in your own language or having an entire world speaking just your language. Just because Grouch says that language factors will be added to the world-creation algorithms it doesn't mean that they intend to create full single language worlds. In fact, I really hope they don't. That would defeat part of the new system and I think providing tools to create alliances is sufficient enough for both languages with localization and languages without. So think guild/alliance, not world/team.

For example, in that qoute from Grouch above he mentions factors of coverage and language but not which will take precedence above the other. If they prioritize language over coverage there to sustain single-language worlds they are building a new system that they are not really giving a chance to stand on its own. So I quite frankly don't think they will. It isn't that a full server for a single language itself is inherently bad, it's more so that coverage has to take precedence or the system is dead on arrival. If coverage takes precedence we're unlikely to see the language factor, factor into full language worlds. It is more likely to just factoring into primarily sending solo players with a language preference towards different guilds/alliances with the same language preference but still spreading them out.

For everything else I think you already have good discussion about that going on. I think there already are tools available for negotiating these things, for understanding enough of a language that you don't speak to still play, for choosing people to play with if you want to speak/hear more indepth and complex things in a language that you command or simply for having some sort of respect for the situation. People on either side who assumes that players should either fully learn english or shouldn't have to deal with the lingua franca status of english at all, they are all at fault. The reasonable expectation sits somewhere inbetween.

So, short and sweet, my issue isn't with people speaking other languages (within reason, respect and moderation), or forming into language-specific communities. With that my issues isn't even with full language worlds. My issue is with when we put localisation over the game itself and demand special treatment even if it ruins the game (mode). Language servers have proven themselves problematic in europe for that reason. For notable periods of time servers like BB and Viz have been balance problems and that is more important than localisation.

Edited by subversiontwo.7501
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Let's look at current EU, we have 3.8 DE (3 complete german teams and a german major with an EN sub) and 1 complete FR and 1 complete SP server. In total we have 15 server

 

If you distribute ther german speaking equally over 15 teams you have over 25% german speaking ON EVERY TEAM. The germans will hate it, and all the others will not like it as well, as 25% are quite a lot such that you will likely have a a lot german in the chat and a german TS Zerg.

 

If you on the other side respect language choices and make 3 complete german-server and one other with 1 german alliance and distribute all random-germans over the other, you likely end with less 20% germans on one team and no one cares if a complete team speaks a specific language.

 

My point is, if you respect language preferences, to make complete teams language specific, you will have less dominating languages on other teams.

 

The current BB problem (the server cannot close, as it is the only SP server, and is overstacked due to that) will disappear with alliances anyway.

I don't think that repecting language preferences should violate balance. I.e. it should not overstack all germans into 3 teams (nor all french into one nor all spanish), if they have people for more than 3 teams. it should also avoid language majorities, that aren't 100%. Make it 100% or distribute them randomly (with is likely evenly) 🙂

Edited by Dayra.7405
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1 hour ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

If they prioritize language over coverage

 

They will be NO respect for coverage in the alliances. Coverage can only be handled by making short (a few hours) matches. And different number of matches in prime and offtime.

Edited by Dayra.7405
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