Public-instance Raids and Legendary armor

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 hours ago, SovietVixen.7396 said:

Unfalsifiable statements are not common sense.

Well you paid for the content, and you have access to it like everyone else.  You have the same chance (If not better with all the guides and guild groups focused on teaching newbies the mechanics of both raids and classes).

But also, where's the outrage for PvP and WvW exclusive skins?

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

17 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

But also, where's the outrage for PvP and WvW exclusive skins?

Raids require you to do stuff, that's why.

You can flip a camp every ~10 minutes in WvW and get a Legendary set in 4-5 months. In PvP you can just kitten around in ranked and get a Legendary set in a few months. 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

10 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Raids require you to do stuff, that's why.

You can flip a camp every ~10 minutes in WvW and get a Legendary set in 4-5 months. In PvP you can just kitten around in ranked and get a Legendary set in a few months. 

Flipping a camp is still *doing stuff* and people can still body you in that mode and force you to slow down/miss a tick.  I've yet to hear of anyone AFKing/INTing through  AT's/ranked to get their pvp legendary armor, either.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

8 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Flipping a camp is still *doing stuff* and people can still body you in that mode and force you to slow down/miss a tick. 

I don't think fighting random weak NPCs for a minute, then going back to AFK for another almost 10 minutes is a lot of effort.

You also don't miss a tick if you die, you still get your pips and Reward Track points.

8 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

 I've yet to hear of anyone AFKing/INTing through  AT's/ranked to get their pvp legendary armor, either.

Second Ranked I had last week the other team had an AFK guy, who then was accused of being a bot minutes later, because he moved in the exact same way each time. You may have heard "Your experience may differ".

Also, I didn't say AFKing in Ranked, I said kittening around. You know, like that Soulbeast on CA that pulls 5k DPS.

Edited February 13, 2022 by IAmNotMatthew.1058

[Linken.6345]

6 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I don't think fighting random weak NPCs for a minute, then going back to AFK for another almost 10 minutes is a lot of effort.

You also don't miss a tick if you die, you still get your pips and Reward Track points.

Second Ranked I had last week the other team had an AFK guy, who then was accused of being a bot minutes later, because he moved in the exact same way each time. You may have heard "Your experience may differ".

Also, I didn't say AFKing in Ranked, I said kittening around. You know, like that Soulbeast on CA that pulls 5k DPS.

Or the warrior at whisper of jormag that do 1.8k dps but when all others die due to to many mechanics only response is but Im alive.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

12 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I don't think fighting random weak NPCs for a minute, then going back to AFK for another almost 10 minutes is a lot of effort.

You also don't miss a tick if you die, you still get your pips and Reward Track points.

If you do it at weird off hours for your enemies, yeah, you'll just be fighting mobs, but ANet has since cracked down on a lot of the easy/afk methods for rewards in wvw.  You actually ah ve to participate now or you lose pips, which means you'll be putting yourself out in t he line of fire.

Also there are people out there who will stall so long you start losing pips.  I've  done it before when defending a tower from a scrapper who couldn't kill me.
 

Quote

Second Ranked I had last week the other team had an AFK guy, who then was accused of being a bot minutes later, because he moved in the exact same way each time. You may have heard "Your experience may differ".

Also, I didn't say AFKing in Ranked, I said kittening around. You know, like that Soulbeast on CA that pulls 5k DPS.

Yeah, that's the thing, one person doing the equivalent of nothing doesn't prove that they have their legendary armor from pvp. Also if you actually read m ore into the post, you'd see "AFK" and "/INTing" eg not present or feeding the enemy team kills/basically being useless.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

If you do it at weird off hours for your enemies, yeah, you'll just be fighting mobs, but ANet has since cracked down on a lot of the easy/afk methods for rewards in wvw.  You actually ah ve to participate now or you lose pips, which means you'll be putting yourself out in t he line of fire.

Also there are people out there who will stall so long you start losing pips.  I've  done it before when defending a tower from a scrapper who couldn't kill me.

Losing pips? You can't lose pips in WvW. Do you even know what you are talking about? 
You kill an NPC at a camp you get 2 mins of participation grace period, killing the Supervisor is 5 minutes, taking the camp is 10 minutes and increases the participation bar. 
Don't try to tell me that on 3 BLs one person can't go around flipping camps, because I've been doing that in the middle of the day multiple times.

Let's get things straight, two stuff you said about WvW are completely wrong, you can't lose pips and dying does not mean you don't get the rewards for the tick. Simple as that. If you go around the map, taking camps you can easily keep up your participation and get to a Legendary armor set in ~20 weeks, which is capped by the amount of Skirmish Tickets you can get.

9 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Yeah, that's the thing, one person doing the equivalent of nothing doesn't prove that they have their legendary armor from pvp. Also if you actually read m ore into the post, you'd see "AFK" and "/INTing" eg not present or feeding the enemy team kills/basically being useless.

I didn't say the person kittening around in ranked PvP got Legendary armor from PvP. I said you can get Legendary PvP armor that way too in the same comment where I said you can get WvW/PvP Legendary armor without barely putting in any effort. That was the example.

If I take the time to read your response you should take your time to read my comment, that way you might respond to what I wrote, not some random thing.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

3 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Losing pips? You can't lose pips in WvW. Do you even know what you are talking about? 
You kill an NPC at a camp you get 2 mins of participation grace period, killing the Supervisor is 5 minutes, taking the camp is 10 minutes and increases the participation bar. 
Don't try to tell me that on 3 BLs one person can't go around flipping camps, because I've been doing that in the middle of the day multiple times.Let's get things straight, two stuff you said about WvW are completely wrong, you can't lose pips and dying does not mean you don't get the rewards for the tick.

You can get into a fight with someone who will  purposefully stall you from refreshing your participation long enough that you lose so much participation you fall below t3, thus you lose out on pips.

I can also tell you that, if you have a job, you should  be working, but also, middle of the day is a very key phrase here if you're on NA as you'll be on off hours.  Try doing this on prime time hours, when most people actually can play, and you'll have less  success with this strategy.

 

Quote

Simple as that. If you go around the map, taking camps you can easily keep up your participation and get to a Legendary armor set in ~20 weeks, which is capped by the amount of Skirmish Tickets you can get.

I didn't say the person kittening around in ranked PvP got Legendary armor from PvP. I said you can get Legendary PvP armor that way too in the same comment where I said you can get WvW/PvP Legendary armor without barely putting in any effort. That was the example.

If I take the time to read your response you should take your time to read my comment, that way you might respond to what I wrote, not some random thing.

🥱If you wrote anything worth reading.  the maths have already been done.  Raids reward you for your participation by making your first set only 10 weeks & 50 weeks for it all if you don't convert LD into LI.  6 weeks for first and 30 weeks for it all minimum if you do convert LD to LI.

PvP depends on a few things such as; how well you play to gain pips, queue times, game times, win/loss ratio, etc.
Someone did the maths ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jNJob0zFk6JzjXA4q2ZCvfuu43r_1afuFgXlv11y1c0/edit#gid=547760379 )already and here they are (For gold players):

PvP Games Required	PvP Hours Required (not including Queue time)	PvP Hours Required (including Queue time)
845	169.0	225.4

 

 

And WvW armor is going to take you 22-29 weeks per set.

PvP, by far, seems the fastest if you actually try, huh.  Seems like WvW is the only one where you can basically barely participate and gain the armor



 

[Tails.9372]

58 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

You can get into a fight with someone who will  purposefully stall you from refreshing your participation long enough that you lose so much participation you fall below t3, thus you lose out on pips.

No, all camping an objective does is at best preventing someone else from taking it but the person stalling is not at fault for the other one "falling below t3" as that person could have just walked away going after another camp / shrine / sentry / dolyak or random veteran creature.

As long as someone knows how to pick their fights it's pretty much impossible to lose participation to any significant degree.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

I can also tell you that, if you have a job, you should  be working, but also, middle of the day is a very key phrase here if you're on NA as you'll be on off hours.  Try doing this on prime time hours, when most people actually can play, and you'll have less  success with this strategy.

I'm a university student with my classes being all over between 8am and 7pm, because of lab slots.

And as I said, I've done it, no need to tell me I'm wrong when I've done that multiple times. If you can't keep up your participation in WvW by flipping camps you might actually need to learn the game mode a bit more or actually try going to a different camp instead of going back to the same one where you get beaten constantly.

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

🥱If you wrote anything worth reading.  the maths have already been done.  Raids reward you for your participation by making your first set only 10 weeks & 50 weeks for it all if you don't convert LD into LI.  6 weeks for first and 30 weeks for it all minimum if you do convert LD to LI.

As far as I can recall I didn't say a word about the time it takes to get Legendary Armor through Raids other than "they require effort", I said you can get Legendary armor through PvP/WvW in ~20 weeks even if you barely put in any effort
 

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

PvP depends on a few things such as; how well you play to gain pips, queue times, game times, win/loss ratio, etc.
Someone did the maths ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jNJob0zFk6JzjXA4q2ZCvfuu43r_1afuFgXlv11y1c0/edit#gid=547760379 )already and here they are (For gold players):

 

PvP Games Required	PvP Hours Required (not including Queue time)	PvP Hours Required (including Queue time)
845	169.0	225.4

 

And regardless of the amount of matches, hours, etc all that it comes out to 3 seasons atleast, which is yet again, around what I wrote there, ~20 weeks. To top it off the person playing ranked like normal people also needs 3 seasons the same way as someone who can't be bothered to do anything other than going out and dying.

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

And WvW armor is going to take you 22-29 weeks per set.

No need to repeat my 20 week estimate on it, as the ~ symbol is "approximately".

[Bakeneko.5826]

New strikes will award LI, 1/week, but it is a thing now. Rejoice!

[Tails.9372]

51 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

New strikes will award LI, 1/week, but it is a thing now. Rejoice!

Which changes nothing as the difficulty is supposedly the same meaning everyone who wasn't able to beat the raids won't be able to beat the new strike CMs and everyone who was either didn't care or won't have any use for them.

[Sigmoid.7082]

58 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Which changes nothing as the difficulty is supposedly the same meaning everyone who wasn't able to beat the raids won't be able to beat the new strike CMs and everyone who was either didn't care or won't have any use for them.

But it does give you a training (normal) mode with the same mechanics so that people can actually learn them as well as an easy (story) mode so that the player has already experienced most of the mechanics on their own before having to face them with 10 people. It gives people a much clearer path into the content.

 

The fact you can also earn green prophet shards to trade for things, most notably MC, the number of players in normals should be fairly decent, potentially leading to more people in CMs. Considering they are supposed to be as hard as raids once people are there its more of a lateral move into raids compared to what we have now alongside the incentive to do raids as a sue for the LI being earned unless the strike vendor has use for them.

[Bakeneko.5826]

1 hour ago, Tails.9372 said:

Which changes nothing as

It kinda changes everything. Sigmoid is right, CMs might be new raids, but they are done right, with normal mode as training wheels.

[TexZero.7910]

8 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

It kinda changes everything. Sigmoid is right, CMs might be new raids, but they are done right, with normal mode as training wheels.

It might have a minor impact if it actually proves to be the incentive Anet wants it to be.

But seeing as this is literally the same dead horse being beaten going on 5 years and mostly the same crowd complaining about raids i doubt this change will actually move them to participate in Raids and i'd personally love nothing more for this expirement to have it's data showcased publicly so the community at large can see if it was worth it.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

21 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Which changes nothing as the difficulty is supposedly the same meaning everyone who wasn't able to beat the raids won't be able to beat the new strike CMs and everyone who was either didn't care or won't have any use for them.

Just to be clear,  you can beat MOST Raid bosses, If you just auto attack in berzerker Gear. Now with The normal mode teaching the mechanics of the fight, beating the strike CM bosses should not be difficulty.

[Fangoth.4503]

On 2/15/2022 at 8:55 AM, Sigmoid.7082 said:

But it does give you a training (normal) mode with the same mechanics so that people can actually learn them as well as an easy (story) mode so that the player has already experienced most of the mechanics on their own before having to face them with 10 people. It gives people a much clearer path into the content.

 

The fact you can also earn green prophet shards to trade for things, most notably MC, the number of players in normals should be fairly decent, potentially leading to more people in CMs. Considering they are supposed to be as hard as raids once people are there its more of a lateral move into raids compared to what we have now alongside the incentive to do raids as a sue for the LI being earned unless the strike vendor has use for them.

and 2 week after release a lot of players give up because the training given by normal doesn't help in any way players running wrong build or gear

3 hours ago, sokeenoppa.5384 said:

Just to be clear,  you can beat MOST Raid bosses, If you just auto attack in berzerker Gear. Now with The normal mode teaching the mechanics of the fight, beating the strike CM bosses should not be difficulty.

so strike CM should be as easy as raid

Edited February 16, 2022 by Fangoth.4503

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

15 hours ago, TexZero.7910 said:

It might have a minor impact if it actually proves to be the incentive Anet wants it to be.

But seeing as this is literally the same dead horse being beaten going on 5 years and mostly the same crowd complaining about raids i doubt this change will actually move them to participate in Raids and i'd personally love nothing more for this expirement to have it's data showcased publicly so the community at large can see if it was worth it.

The good part is  that Strikes  are labbeld as "training wheels" .. so they wont have or "need"  to increase the rewards for normal and CM versions  and surpass  the Raids or any other activity in the game .

Just an extra "daily activity" to get some gold (Mystic coins) and then they move to the big "moneymakers" like CM fractals or Drizzelwood .

Most people will avoid the CM strikes , but they will feel good that the company gave them an LI extra option and in return  the company can indtroduce  new mechanics , like "hide behind the colums/ kite /tec" .

 

...But if somethings happens to normal mode ,  the first "red flag" will be that the company will give an extra option to get Mystic Coins from PvE and then the second will be slower releases ...

(..when are we going to move in Megaservers Open Raids , olg gg ?  Common , stop stalling it ..)

[TexZero.7910]

9 hours ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Most people will avoid the CM strikes , but they will feel good that the company gave them an LI extra option and in return  the company can indtroduce  new mechanics , like "hide behind the colums/ kite /tec" .

I'm well aware that most people will avoid CM strikes. That's why i specifically want Anet to publish the data on people who 1) Never Raided then 2) Did the new strikes and CM strikes to get their first LI and then finally 3) Decided that because they have LI they're inclined to actually go raid and 4) Create Legendary armor.

 

I'm 99.99% certain the number of people that fit that very small crowd are actually smaller than the alleged target audience of the very raids they actively bemoan.

[Bakeneko.5826]

17 hours ago, TexZero.7910 said:

I'm 99.99% certain the number of people that fit that very small crowd are actually smaller than the alleged target audience of the very raids they actively bemoan.

I mean raids dont even get minimum player count needed for Anet to continue development. Non-CM strikes at least lets everyone engage in them at public instance

[Katary.7096]

4 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

I mean raids dont even get minimum player count needed for Anet to continue development. Non-CM strikes at least lets everyone engage in them at public instance

And in EoD they will be one of the best options to farm mystic coins, which will surely boost their already impressive popularity.

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

And in EoD they will be one of the best options to farm mystic coins, which will surely boost their already impressive popularity.

No they wont EoD strikes are the only content you can farm resources to buy mystic coins.

[mindcircus.1506]

On 2/16/2022 at 11:03 AM, TexZero.7910 said:

I'm well aware that most people will avoid CM strikes. That's why i specifically want Anet to publish the data on people who 1) Never Raided then 2) Did the new strikes and CM strikes to get their first LI and then finally 3) Decided that because they have LI they're inclined to actually go raid and 4) Create Legendary armor.

 

I'm 99.99% certain the number of people that fit that very small crowd are actually smaller than the alleged target audience of the very raids they actively bemoan.

And those people arent allowed to have any content?

[Linken.6345]

7 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

And those people arent allowed to have any content?

Those people are what 90% of the content is for thats released the open world stuff.

[mindcircus.1506]

2 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Those people are what 90% of the content is for thats released the open world stuff.

The remaining 10% need to be served as well.