Underwater content?

[Reborn.1738]

Returning player here, just curious as to what happened with underwater content over the game's life? Apologies if this is a duplicate or redundant thread...

 

Searching over a few older threads in the forums here it seems pretty divisive. Some players love it, some players hate it. Seems that the devs may have shifted focus away from underwater in the expansions - I just finished Heart of Thorns, while it was a big jungle so I wasn't expecting an ocean, the underwater chasms in that one zone felt particularly empty. Path of Fire being set in the desert I can only assume this to be the same?

 

I know the Skimmer got the underwater mastery semi recently, the Siege Turtle will be able to go underwater, and Skiffs are coming too. Is this perhaps a sign that some new underwater content may be heading our way too?

 

I love the immersion (pun sort of intended) of being under the water, the audio and visuals are great. I know the combat can feel a little clunky at times, but once I got used to the extra dimension I found it pretty manageable. I can only hope that more comes in future expansions.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

UW content has been mostly abandoned, which is a shame. How fun UW content is depends on the class and how decent it's limited weapon choices are. Warrior for instance has a great UW set and I like UW content as a result, but some weapon sets are really kind of bad underwater. There is also the fact that a lot of utility skills don't work there, so it becomes hard to play some builds underwater.

Will EoD feature more UW content since the DSD is underwater? I hope so, and I hope that it brings a revamp to UW combat.

[Randulf.7614]

Sadly, it looks like the devs gave up on it and forever. 

[Randulf.7614]

I share your tears emoticon people

[Reborn.1738]

16 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

UW content has been mostly abandoned, which is a shame. How fun UW content is depends on the class and how decent it's limited weapon choices are. Warrior for instance has a great UW set and I like UW content as a result, but some weapon sets are really kind of bad underwater. There is also the fact that a lot of utility skills don't work there, so it becomes hard to play some builds underwater.

Will EoD feature more UW content since the DSD is underwater? I hope so, and I hope that it brings a revamp to UW combat.

 

I'm maining a Necromancer/Reaper and I'm finding the underwater stuff fairly good to be honest. I've got all of my utilities from my land build, and spend most of my time in Reaper form so I guess I'm lucky in that I'm not particularly hindered...  Could definitely see it being a challenge for other classes though. 

 

10 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Sadly, it looks like the devs gave up on it and forever. 

 

A shame. Sure it might be a little rough around the edges but giving up on it seems quite disappointing. It felt quite a standout compared to the other MMOs I've played - FFXIV's underwater areas had no combat at all, and ESO I think was just surface swimming. 

[AgentMoore.9453]

Echoing the others saying it's been abandoned. In the upcoming expansion, underwater weapons have been excluded completely from the Aurene legendary set which further cements the idea that no significant UW content is coming with EoD.

I'm a bit bummed by this given that GW2's handling of water exploration is the best I've experienced in an MMO (others have been disorienting with syrupy motion and limited player skills). I enjoy underwater combat, and would really love a rework update where they fix, finish, and balance the various things that are broken or missing in the current iteration. With fishing, boats, a water dragon(?), and a journey across the sea impending, this kind of update feels like it would have been perfectly positioned.

That said, very unlikely right now - we can only hope for the future.

[Gibson.4036]

It's funny, because it is such a catch-22. Underwater content largely sucks because it wasn't developed fully, and it wasn't developed fully because people found that it sucked.

It feels good on some professions, terrible on others. If they'd added a weapon or two more so we could actually synergize them with builds, and spend a little more time adapting utilities to underwater variants, we'd have been in a good place.

_________________

It is kind of a weird mixed message they're sending.

On one hand, there's no underwater variants for the new legendaries.

On the other hand, they just gave us underwater Skimmer last year, and made the new siege turtle walk along lake bottoms while telling us how interesting it was to re-explore underwater areas in a new way.

Is it possible the ArenaNet team itself is still divided on underwater content?

[Pifil.5193]

Perhaps, I'm sure that like the players some devs enjoy it and others don't but the studio has been pretty consistent; no new underwater legendaries or weapon skins, no more significant underwater content planned.

 

The fact that he turtle walks along the bottom gives me some hope that we might get some Legend of Zelda-style "iron boots" that allow us to walk on the bottom too (and allow us to use our above water weapons while we do). 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

33 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Perhaps, I'm sure that like the players some devs enjoy it and others don't but the studio has been pretty consistent; no new underwater legendaries or weapon skins, no more significant underwater content planned.

 

The fact that he turtle walks along the bottom gives me some hope that we might get some Legend of Zelda-style "iron boots" that allow us to walk on the bottom too (and allow us to use our above water weapons while we do). 

Now that is an interesting thought! That would be very interesting if there ends up being a massive UW cave structure to navigate while fighting DSD and it's minions.

@Reborn.1738 Necro just so happens to have a good UW set. I've never liked the guardian or ele UW sets personally.

[Doggie.3184]

Even with fishing and boats being added it's still pretty ignored content. There's still no cosmetic armor/outfits to go along with underwater exploration. Elite specs like Specter have every. single. skill. locked underwater. And new zones never really have any events or bosses in water or large sections for it.

Really, I wish they'd just make all our weapons and skills useable in water with animation/targeting tweaks and make the underwater weapons universal but they'll never fund such a thing. I did pray Cantha would have that as a feature but despite surprisingly getting boats; underwater combat is still untouched.

[Gregg.3970]

2 hours ago, Reborn.1738 said:

 

Searching over a few older threads in the forums here it seems pretty divisive. Some players love it, some players hate it. 

I think that sums it up.  UW content is definitely Marmite, either loved or hated. 

 

Sadly I absolutely hate it, from as far back in the olden days in 2012 I hated maps Sparklyfen & Bloodtide Coast. 

 

In a nutshell, like many players I find underwater combat just too sluggish and frustrating, plus quite a few skills are disabled underwater. I force myself to button bash without much thought through Aquatic Ruins T4 Fractal, still hitting 15-16K underwater DPS but absolutely find it a chore, and lost count the amount of times my T4 group just want to skip that frac. 

 

Imo unless Anet seriously rework underwater combat mechanics in terms of attack speed, and or complete rework of abilities and underwater skills I'll complete avoid that content, as its just not fun. 

 

On the plus side UW content in its current state has saved me a fortune in avoiding crafting/buying UW Legendaries as they'd be a complete waste! 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Gregg.3970

[Randulf.7614]

It never needed a rework or new skills or anything that extreme because it never needed to be front and centre. It worked in core maps like the pirate area south of LA, Maelstrom and Frostgorge, because they were beautiful expensive spaces with events and trash mobs and beautiful scenery to explore. It only ever needed more of that in maps. Instead, it was taken out altogether.

Imagine Ember Bay with interesting depths to explore. Or PoF coastlines with bounties. Nothing that makes any signifcant impact on the game and nothing that requires a rework - keeping everyone happy.

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Randulf.7614

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It's funny, because it is such a catch-22. Underwater content largely sucks because it wasn't developed fully, and it wasn't developed fully because people found that it sucked.

It feels good on some professions, terrible on others. If they'd added a weapon or two more so we could actually synergize them with builds, and spend a little more time adapting utilities to underwater variants, we'd have been in a good place.

_________________

It is kind of a weird mixed message they're sending.

On one hand, there's no underwater variants for the new legendaries.

On the other hand, they just gave us underwater Skimmer last year, and made the new siege turtle walk along lake bottoms while telling us how interesting it was to re-explore underwater areas in a new way.

Is it possible the ArenaNet team itself is still divided on underwater content?

 

The problem with underwater gameplay is the lack of perspective and the sense of impact.  GW2 has by far the best looking and implemented underwater in a mmo (i like it but on short blasts) but the gameplay will never be fluid as you have a bunch of players and NPCs floating around each other in an environment.  There's no way really to fix it, its in the nature of the beast (both gameplay and how our eyes/brain works)

[Reborn.1738]

43 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Really, I wish they'd just make all our weapons and skills useable in water with animation/targeting tweaks and make the underwater weapons universal but they'll never fund such a thing

 

This could be quite interesting. Speaking from my Engineer and Necromancer experience I think all of the weapons I've used would mechanically function on land/in water. Even a ranger's bow, if you suspend disbelief... Then take the spear/trident weapon types and making them into a land weapon too? I'd argue you could combine them in to one weapon type and wouldn't miss too much. Maybe even roll in spear/harpoon guns with rifles. Tweak some of the ground target abilities to be enemy target... I don't know, it's more than likely a huge undertaking to balance all the weapon types to work underwater.

 

15 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Imagine Ember Bay with interesting depths to explore

 

I just started this zone today. Ran my Skimmer across the water surface around the edge of the map and occasionally dipped underneath to see what was there. Big sadface.

[Gibson.4036]

31 minutes ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

 

The problem with underwater gameplay is the lack of perspective and the sense of impact.  GW2 has by far the best looking and implemented underwater in a mmo (i like it but on short blasts) but the gameplay will never be fluid as you have a bunch of players and NPCs floating around each other in an environment.  There's no way really to fix it, its in the nature of the beast (both gameplay and how our eyes/brain works)

I understand some people have difficulty with the 3d environment, but I have to disagree on no way to fix it.

If there was no possible way to make it better, there wouldn't be such an uneven experience across professions. The fact that some do play well under water and some really don't says to me that it is possible to make it fun for everyone.

That, and two weapons and half your utilities means no flexibility in making a build that synergizes and functions well from the player end.

 

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I understand some people have difficulty with the 3d environment, but I have to disagree on no way to fix it.

If there was no possible way to make it better, there wouldn't be such an uneven experience across professions. The fact that some do play well under water and some really don't says to me that it is possible to make it fun for everyone.

That, and two weapons and half your utilities means no flexibility in making a build that synergizes and functions well from the player end.

 

 

mm not so sure, needing to give a convincing representation of floating underwater fundamentally hampers the gameplay.  

Edited December 7, 2021 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

 

mm not so sure, needing to give the visual impression that you are floating underwater fundamentally hampers the gameplay.  

So you find that is true regardless of the profession you are playing?

Because there has been a ton of discussion on underwater gameplay over the last nine years, and there seem to be a lot of people who enjoy it, but only on certain characters.

[Handsel.2891]

It has been neglected since the core release, for sure. I think they missed the mark considerably, compared to how they originally imagined the underwater experience. It's a shame, really. Some of the most atmospheric environments, if you pardon the contradiction, are underwater.

Here's hoping that EoD will feature some wet adventures. No. Stop it. You know who you are.

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

14 minutes ago, MikeG.6389 said:

It has been neglected since the core release, for sure. I think they missed the mark considerably, compared to how they originally imagined the underwater experience. It's a shame, really. Some of the most atmospheric environments, if you pardon the contradiction, are underwater.

Here's hoping that EoD will feature some wet adventures. No. Stop it. You know who you are.

With Jade Sea being... well, jade, it might not happen. It is a shame, firebrand performs nice in underwater combat. My poor blue boy will have to settle on aquatic fractal fun from time to time.

[Neva Eilhart.5347]

UW combat and exploration joined the long list of half baked overlooked features the game has.

I'm not saying this to be negative about the game (I love Gw2) but rather as a neutral statement. The game launched with too much on its plate and Anet wasn't able to handle everything perfectly. The personal story and branching stories, the Underwater Combat, the Personality system, come into mind when I think about it. So many features they could have chosen to build upon, if only they had enough time, ressources, and a strong vision (it's not easy to be really innovative, especially in the Mmo market, and GW2 has always been struggling in its early years between pushing for innovation and providing classic Mmo tropes to its playerbase).

The game eventually took another direction and now has found its way into regular quality content, but if you think about it it's pretty far off what it had to offer when it first launched. Underwater combat is a remnant of this. That's why it's pretty heavily featured in the core game, be it areas or story missions, and non existing in expansions. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

i don't think we can really say the best underwater implementation in the MMO market is half baked.  I can recall underwater gameplay when the game released and everyone i knew loved it.  The issue iwasthat underwater gameplay is ultimately just not as engaging as overland because of the 'floatiness'.  as the game evolves, dev resources become a premium, so it becomes underwater content versus overland and what satisfies the most game players.

[Fueki.4753]

After they reworked the Underwater Fractal, I don't think anything happened with underwater content.

In the blog post about the upcoming legendaries weapons, they even told us that they remember underwater weapons but can't be bothered to work on skins for them.

[Lynx.9058]

Well one of the newest E-specs is practically unplayable underwater, so...

[Zaoda.1653]

I was pretty disappointed to hear that, despite the 96 aurene and variant legendaries, Anet wasn't going to add any underwater legendary weapons with the sets.

 

Why have underwater content if you're not even going to make legendary weapons for underwater content? It gives players the feeling that if Anet doesn't care about it, then why should we?

 

It makes me second guess whether or not I should ever go for one of the aurene or variant legendaries because I'm all about having my weapons match the theme of my character, so if I can't have the underwater weapon match - what is the point?

Edited December 9, 2021 by Zaoda.1653

[Pifil.5193]

7 hours ago, Zaoda.1653 said:

Why have underwater content if you're not even going to make legendary weapons for underwater content? It gives players the feeling that if Anet doesn't care about it, then why should we?

Well, they haven't really added any significant underwater content since Southsun cove so I don't care about underwater content. It's hard to care about content that isn't there. 🙂