Underwater content?

[TwiceDead.1963]

The less we have of underwater COMBAT the better.

I don't care if I have to go on the occasional swim, but if it's shark-infested waters.. then kindly take that idea, crumple it together and shove it up your nostrils.

[Reborn.1738]

5 hours ago, TwiceDead.1963 said:

The less we have of underwater COMBAT the better.

 

Maybe yeah. Personally I don't mind the combat, and don't think it should be removed entirely from future underwater content. But perhaps less is better.

 

I was recently thinking about how the exploration side of underwater could be expanded. Maybe through mastery tracks.

 

We already have the skimmer submerge mastery but that's a PoF unlock, so kind of avoiding it for the purpose of this.

 

What about if there was a new underwater swimming aid, kind of like Subnautica's Seaglide, that could help people get around a bit faster and could be augmented with mastery abilities in a similar fashion to the Glider.

* A sonar pulse ability that can be used to locate sunken loot chests

* A stealth mode to swim past those pesky sharks

* A torpedo launcher that can be used to crack open underwater caverns to access secret areas

* A stability module that allows you to ride underwater currents

 

[AquaBR.9250]

On 12/7/2021 at 1:02 PM, Reborn.1738 said:

Returning player here, just curious as to what happened with underwater content over the game's life? Apologies if this is a duplicate or redundant thread...

 

Searching over a few older threads in the forums here it seems pretty divisive. Some players love it, some players hate it. Seems that the devs may have shifted focus away from underwater in the expansions - I just finished Heart of Thorns, while it was a big jungle so I wasn't expecting an ocean, the underwater chasms in that one zone felt particularly empty. Path of Fire being set in the desert I can only assume this to be the same?

 

I know the Skimmer got the underwater mastery semi recently, the Siege Turtle will be able to go underwater, and Skiffs are coming too. Is this perhaps a sign that some new underwater content may be heading our way too?

 

I love the immersion (pun sort of intended) of being under the water, the audio and visuals are great. I know the combat can feel a little clunky at times, but once I got used to the extra dimension I found it pretty manageable. I can only hope that more comes in future expansions.

The only reason of UW combat being clunky is because is outdated, lots of core game weapons feel that way, or would feel but they ocasionally update some, having only 3 underwater weapons and 2 usable per profession doesn't help.

 

I find Thief's spear hella fun, i have even ascended underwater stuff on my thief, and also he is a daredevil, not only i have 3 dodges but they go far and they feel amazing underwater, if you give this freedom of movement to base dodge rolls for all profession underwater and also increase endurance regen underwater it would improve highly the UW experience

[AquaBR.9250]

I replied it in another post but i think the suject deserves its own post.

 

The problem:
The main reason of UW combat being clunky is because it is outdated, lots of core game weapons feel that way, or would feel if they did not occasionally update some, having only 3 underwater weapons and up to 2 usable per profession doesn't help either, also the movement feel so slow and clunky in general.

Lack of skills are also a thing, since only half of your utilities are usable underwater.

 

The solution:

I find thief's spear hella fun, i have even ascended underwater stuff on my thief, and also he is a daredevil, not only i have 3 dodges but they go far and they feel amazing underwater, if you give this freedom of movement to base dodge rolls for all profession underwater and also increase endurance regen underwater it would improve highly the UW combat experience, if you don't believe play spear daredevil yourself.
Every profession should have 1 utility skills line that are exclusively underwater, put it behind the mastery system that would be nice, those skills can only be used underwater and are made for it.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by AquaBR.9250

[monpetit.9764]

I've actually had a hard time understanding the dislike for underwater combat. Maybe it's the chaotic targeting that takes place when you suddenly have 3D flying controls, and arguably a lot of skills feel very fluff. Mostly being an enhanced version of your auto-attack with some boons or condis as caviats; I have a great time with thief and ele underwater on the top of my head with that statement though. Perhaps if a lot of the skills just had some new ideas or post-2012 style of development thrown at it, people would be willing to give it another chance. I think the opposing issue is land combat is just so superior people don't have the patience for it.

Maybe a finer idea for new UW combat would be to make it more like a bullet hell, allowing for more to have your mind have fun with. UW combat can be a grudge where it feels like you're only doing the act of attacking bullet sponges, with a hard discern to tell when AoEs are going to hit, or even understanding attack ranges. More visual conveyance could be used here for the better I think.

I've also been really hopeful for aerial combat, giving GW2 that land air and sea combat as one of it's grabbing points to play, but, the years have indeed passed for that one. qq

Edited December 21, 2021 by monpetit.9764

[Xanadrine.4352]

So is underwater out or in in EoD?

 

[Reborn.1738]

19 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

So is underwater out or in in EoD?

 

 

There is definitely water. It'll be hard to fish without it. So assume that there will be areas you can go underwater I guess. We don't know what will be there though...

[Xanadrine.4352]

Just now, Reborn.1738 said:

 

There is definitely water. It'll be hard to fish without it. So assume that there will be areas you can go underwater I guess. We don't know what will be there though...

I mean zones underwater for fighting and towns/cities hubs.

[Fueki.4753]

13 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

I mean zones underwater for fighting and towns/cities hubs.

Given current Arenanet's disdain for any underwater-related things, I doubt there'll be much (if anything).

Maybe a small Naga home or two, but more would be unrealistic to hope for.

[Teratus.2859]

Big vocal advocate of UW content for many many years and still am.

I don't know if I would say Anet has "given up" on underwater content but I'd definitely say it is still being neglected.. unfortunately.

We have had updates to Underwater, there was a big overhaul a while ago that made the content far less tedious.
Mobs became a lot easier to deal with and of course we also got the first underwater mount not too long ago with the Skimmer update.
Plus we know the new mount is also going to be able to go underwater.

The main problem with underwater content in my opinion is the lack build diversity.
There are still a lot of utility skills that cannot be used underwater and this needs to be remedied even if Anet doesn't plan on focusing on underwater content in future.

If Anet does want to focus on underwater content then the bigger problem is a serious lack of weapon diversity that is available to every class.
I have long talked about how mixing the weapon pools together would be amazing for Gw2.
Harpoon/Spears and Tridents usable on land while certain weapons like Axe, Sword, Mace, Dagger, Warhorn, Torch and Focus become usable underwater and provide a ton of new skills to various classes that get to use them.
In my opinion this would be amazing for both underwater and land based combat.
A lot of players want new weapon types in Gw2, Trident and Spear on land would provide that without suffering from the lacking skin problem that currently contributes to new weapons not being considered.
And Underwater content gets a ton of new skills and build potential to play with which will satisfy a lot of us who really want to see more underwater content in this game.

Tyria has a lot of interesting themes and lore based around water, much of which was added to the universe in Gw2 such as the Quaggan and Largos which are both favourites for some people.
And the Krait go back to even Gw1.
Some of us are really interested in exploring the depths of the ocean in Gw2 but with the current underwater combat system this experience simply wouldn't be a good one.
If we had more weapons, complete access to our utility skills and more build diversity underwater this would be a totally different story if you ask me.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

On 12/8/2021 at 4:02 AM, Gibson.4036 said:

It is kind of a weird mixed message they're sending.

On one hand, there's no underwater variants for the new legendaries.

On the other hand, they just gave us underwater Skimmer last year, and made the new siege turtle walk along lake bottoms while telling us how interesting it was to re-explore underwater areas in a new way.

Is it possible the ArenaNet team itself is still divided on underwater content?

I believe they gave us UW skimmer in order to help those who want to skip it, skip it. It's not expanding on UW content, it's giving a means to get in and out faster. In my view: no new UW legs and added ways to skip/avoid UW content aren't giving mixed signals. They're both giving the same signal of "we've abandoned this content".

[Dawanarth.4601]

On 12/9/2021 at 4:45 PM, Lynx.9058 said:

I admit I haven't tested most of the others in underwater content at all, but mechanist at least loses pretty much all of its traits, toolbelt, mech, and half the abilities from its signets and weapons when underwater.

With Mechanist you're better of just running 2 traits underwater and take out the mechanist line so that you at least have the toolbelt

[Firebeard.1746]

The funniest thing about UW imbalances is that they can still matter in WvW. Like they can pretend it's not there, but it matters still. 

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

The funniest thing about UW imbalances is that they can still matter in WvW. Like they can pretend it's not there, but it matters still. 

Kind of depends what you're doing in wvw though. It matters when chasing kills, but it doesn't really matter when playing around objectives.

[Reborn.1738]

On 12/22/2021 at 9:44 AM, Teratus.2859 said:

Big vocal advocate of UW content for many many years and still am.

I don't know if I would say Anet has "given up" on underwater content but I'd definitely say it is still being neglected.. unfortunately.

We have had updates to Underwater, there was a big overhaul a while ago that made the content far less tedious.
Mobs became a lot easier to deal with and of course we also got the first underwater mount not too long ago with the Skimmer update.
Plus we know the new mount is also going to be able to go underwater.

The main problem with underwater content in my opinion is the lack build diversity.
There are still a lot of utility skills that cannot be used underwater and this needs to be remedied even if Anet doesn't plan on focusing on underwater content in future.

If Anet does want to focus on underwater content then the bigger problem is a serious lack of weapon diversity that is available to every class.
I have long talked about how mixing the weapon pools together would be amazing for Gw2.
Harpoon/Spears and Tridents usable on land while certain weapons like Axe, Sword, Mace, Dagger, Warhorn, Torch and Focus become usable underwater and provide a ton of new skills to various classes that get to use them.
In my opinion this would be amazing for both underwater and land based combat.
A lot of players want new weapon types in Gw2, Trident and Spear on land would provide that without suffering from the lacking skin problem that currently contributes to new weapons not being considered.
And Underwater content gets a ton of new skills and build potential to play with which will satisfy a lot of us who really want to see more underwater content in this game.

Tyria has a lot of interesting themes and lore based around water, much of which was added to the universe in Gw2 such as the Quaggan and Largos which are both favourites for some people.
And the Krait go back to even Gw1.
Some of us are really interested in exploring the depths of the ocean in Gw2 but with the current underwater combat system this experience simply wouldn't be a good one.
If we had more weapons, complete access to our utility skills and more build diversity underwater this would be a totally different story if you ask me.

Mixing the weapon pools would probably work best. People can have their builds work on both land and underwater without having to worry about different weapons.

Personally I'd roll tridents and spears into a single weapon type, and then roll speargun skins in with rifles. Make the new "Spear" weapon usable on land, and then make the land weapons usable underwater.

Fix up some of the unusable underwater skills - ground target skills become enemy or player targets as a quick fix I'd think? 

Probably just get rid of the breather slot too. Make it, and underwater stuff in general, a mastery track.

It doesn't fix the extra movement dimension issue people have, but it fixes the gearing and builds

[Teratus.2859]

1 hour ago, Reborn.1738 said:

Mixing the weapon pools would probably work best. People can have their builds work on both land and underwater without having to worry about different weapons.

Personally I'd roll tridents and spears into a single weapon type, and then roll speargun skins in with rifles. Make the new "Spear" weapon usable on land, and then make the land weapons usable underwater.

Fix up some of the unusable underwater skills - ground target skills become enemy or player targets as a quick fix I'd think? 

Probably just get rid of the breather slot too. Make it, and underwater stuff in general, a mastery track.

It doesn't fix the extra movement dimension issue people have, but it fixes the gearing and builds

Aye I agree with pretty much all of that.

With an expanded weapon pool there is certainly some room to merge the Spear and Trident weapons into one group.. although I'd like to keep them separate on preference as it gives more options to the land weapons.
Spear being more your do too long range melee weapon and Tridents being more magical and long range throwing weapons.
Staff does fill the magic staff type weapon and with some specs the melee so i'd like Spear and Trident to be quite different in that regard.
Spear can achieve that with range and maybe some throwing skills here and there.
Trident could be a throwing weapon more akin to Gw1's Paragons but with magical properties as well.

Mixing the Aquabreather into normal helm slots and making underwater masteries is also something I think I would prefer as well.
If anything it would just be very convenient not having to invest in another headgear item just for underwater content.. specially one we have to make sure is stat and rune compatible with the rest of our armour.
That can end up being expensive for some people and for absolutely no good reason.

Nothing can really be done about the extra movement dimension though, but I don't understand what people hate about that so much anyway.
Guess if they don't like it they can just avoid the water content :S

[Shuzsie.9263]

I love underwater content. Was extremely disappointed that there was none in EOD. I would love them not to make anymore elite specs as I feel we have enough, and concentrate on other things like underwater content. Of course your movement is restricted have these people actually ever been underwater. You get a 360 view of everything around you in Gw2 you don't in real life which gives a huge advantage. They just need to tweak underwater content for it to be better.

[Fueki.4753]

3 hours ago, Shuzsie.9263 said:

Was extremely disappointed that there was none in EOD.

There might not much Underwater content (as usual), but none is incorrect.

There are a few objectives for map completion here and there and other small little things underwater.

There are the Leviathan events in Seitung Province and New Kaining City as well.

[Gibson.4036]

8 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

There might not much Underwater content (as usual), but none is incorrect.

There are a few objectives for map completion here and there and other small little things underwater.

There are the Leviathan events in Seitung Province and New Kaining City as well.

I've recovered machine parts  in the bottom of the flooded quarry countless times.

There's also that vault underwater in New Kaineng.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Fueki.4753]

13 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I've recovered machine parts  in the bottom of the flooded quarry countless times.

There's also that vault underwater in New Kaineng.

I count these towards the "other small little things" I mentioned.

[Gibson.4036]

27 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I count these towards the "other small little things" I mentioned.

Totally.

My intent was to agree with you by pointing out some.

[WillowFae.9528]

Since underwater combat was implemented at the start of GW2's release, then it's up to ANET to fix what is broken and/or dysfunctional. Considering how widely-praised EoD 'Cantha' seems to be, the biggest blunder(s) have been the underwater combat with a few of the classes, and the comparisons of the end-map metas in their entirety. If the classes were all capable of fighting underwater and simply were outclassed by meta-builds here and there, there wouldn't be much of an argument. But considering some of them cannot even function and their base-classes are the more preferable choices in an expansion that spokes the new builds and encourages everyone to try them, then that means the release was rushed and the fixes may or may not be coming shortly after.

 

Here's to hoping we get more communication from ANET to put concerns and questions to rest, if they haven't already. 

[samsar.9152]

Underwater worldboss/meta boss would be nice. :)  Also new mount to underwater would be nice. :)  While that underwater mastery ability is nice for skimmer mount, I feel something is still missing because skimmer is not fast enough in under water. Also some changes to underwater combat would be nice to see. Aquatic Ruins fractal boss is good example about this because it takes sometimes ages to kill due to bad skills and dps in underwater. 

[Reborn.1738]

48 minutes ago, samsar.9152 said:

Also new mount to underwater would be nice. :)  While that underwater mastery ability is nice for skimmer mount, I feel something is still missing because skimmer is not fast enough in under water.

The Skimmer is faster than swimming tbf. I think I'd prefer it if they upgraded the Skimmer more rather than introduce a new mount though. We have 8, 9 including Warclaw and a few of them are running the risk of becoming obsolete. It's main ability (navigating over dangerous terrain) has not been used in EoD, and it feels like it's being positioned as the aquatic mount now - with the surface boost and the more recently added underwater ability.

Introduce an unlock for the Skimmer in the next EoD chapter when Anet do a full water/ocean map (right guys, right?...) to give players who don't have it. Although there is the problem of earning mastery xp for it without PoF maps. 

 

As for underwater combat changes. Yes please. If we could use our land weapons underwater and half of the skills weren't locked out... Then add spear/trident/harpoon gun as "new" weapon types that can be used on land or underwater.

[Mackdose.6504]

Add a legendary breather with UW content drop.