What's up with constant weapon swapping?

[Macabre.3829]

I still have to disagree.
I thought Deadeye (as the name implies) is a rifleman since pretty much all skills are ranged as well as the first skill granting you access to a rifle.
The elite specialization are misleading at best.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Macabre.3829

[Linken.6345]

9 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

 Why though? other professions dont lose access to their F skills on weapon swap. That makes no sense.

Well 4 elements 1 weapon is 20 skills, 2 weapons for other classes are 10.

How would it not be unbalanced if elementalist got 40 skills?

I guess it would be fine with elemental swap but no new skills just the same 5 per weapon.

 

[Danikat.8537]

3 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

 Why though? other professions dont lose access to their F skills on weapon swap. That makes no sense.

Other professions F skills don't give them an extra 3 sets of weapon skills. Even without weapon swap elementalists and engineers can have more skills available to them at once than any other profession.

 

3 hours ago, Macabre.3829 said:

I still have to disagree.
I thought Deadeye (as the name implies) is a rifleman since pretty much all skills are ranged as well as the first skill granting you access to a rifle.
The elite specialization are misleading at best.

Deadeye is a ranged specialisation, but that still doesn't mean a thief using it has to be a purely ranged, they still have access to their other weapons and can use them if they want to.

But you haven't explained - what is it that is forcing you into melee on this character? What parts of the game can't you play using a rifle? If you can tell us that we can probably find a work-around so you don't have to swap if you don't want to.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

3 hours ago, Macabre.3829 said:

I still have to disagree.
I thought Deadeye (as the name implies) is a rifleman since pretty much all skills are ranged as well as the first skill granting you access to a rifle.
The elite specialization are misleading at best.

This is still very much a you problem and not a game problem.  Deadeye changes the sneak attacks of any thief weapon and its core mechanic, malice,  works with all weapons.  There's also only one cantrip that's ranged so, really, what are you even on about?

[Serephen.3420]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:33 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Why would you want to be limited in this way?  Odd. But there's a class for that. Play ele!

Suggesting ele to a new player? Now that's just mean😂

[AliamRationem.5172]

16 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said:

Suggesting ele to a new player? Now that's just mean😂

Hey! You don't have to swap weapons with ele!

[Serephen.3420]

21 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Hey! You don't have to swap weapons with ele!

You have a point there😂

But if they don't like weapon swapping can you imagine the attunment swapping?😅

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Serephen.3420 said:

You have a point there😂

But if they don't like weapon swapping can you imagine the attunment swapping?😅

Details.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

5 hours ago, Serephen.3420 said:

You have a point there😂

But if they don't like weapon swapping can you imagine the attunment swapping?😅

There's a core elementalist build that camps fire on either staff or scepter&dagger or Scepter & focus t hat does pretty okay damage,

[ArchonWing.9480]

Nobody cares if you weapon swap or not.  Choices are there; people just refuse to take them.

Edited December 10, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[kharmin.7683]

7 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Hey! You don't have to swap weapons with ele!

Technically, you don't have to swap weapons with any profession.

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Technically, you don't have to swap weapons with any profession.

I’m laughing at the idea of a non-holo holosmith.

I know, technically not a weapon swap. The idea just made me laugh.

[Lynx.9058]

21 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Eles got weapon swap since last year at least. You can’t do it in combat, but we now have a second weapon set we can switch to out of combat. So in essence you can sword/dagger + sceptre/focus if you are a weaver .

oh in that case so does engineer, but if you can't swap in combat it doesn't really count =P

[Randulf.7614]

12 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

oh in that case so does engineer, but if you can't swap in combat it doesn't really count =P

Well, it def does count. It has made playing my ele a lot better for sure. I can switch out a touch of a button without having to find the weapons in my inventory and equip individually when I need to switch up.

[Vayne.8563]

On 12/9/2021 at 8:56 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Being able to swap weapons on the fly is one thing. Having to swap weapons at specific moments in your rotation at higher level play is something else however,.

I feel like you're playing with the wrong people or maybe pugging. I never feel forced to swap weapons at a certain point in my rotation. I don't even use a rotation.  I've killed a few raid bosses, all the strike bosses, and have done every fractals (though I haven't tried the CMs).  Seems to me, a group might insist you swap weapons because they're tracking your DPS but I don't play with those people.

[Orack.4825]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:07 PM, Macabre.3829 said:

A friend got me into the game, we got to lvl 80 and started doing some more serious content, but I've noticed that both my Dragonhunter and Deadeye need to weapon swap. Dragon hunter way more so.

 

I made a character to play 2h only and another one to play ranged only .Why is the game forcing me into playstyles that I do not want to play?
This is just annoying. You guys really think it's a good idea?

For 2h try scrapper (enginer elite), no switch as engi only got 1.
For ranged I would said  Deadeyes (thief) with dual pistol is amazing and won't need to swap except if you encounter mob that reflect projectile. 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

15 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I feel like you're playing with the wrong people or maybe pugging. I never feel forced to swap weapons at a certain point in my rotation. I don't even use a rotation.  I've killed a few raid bosses, all the strike bosses, and have done every fractals (though I haven't tried the CMs).  Seems to me, a group might insist you swap weapons because they're tracking your DPS but I don't play with those people.

When i said "at higher level play" i did not meant specific content, but rather at the level when you start being interested in playing as best as possible. Or, as i mentioned in one of the followup posts, when you are "not making choices that can significantly negatively affect your play level for purely thematic reasons. "

So, (let me quote myself again):

On 12/9/2021 at 11:54 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Although, of course, you can always choose to just not bother with any attempts at improving you gameplay and just do whatever. Most players do exactly that and are completely fine.

So, basically - you indeed do not have to swap. But only if you do not care about your effectiveness. If you do care, swapping suddenly becomes far less optional, and far more obligatory.

So, basically, if you did indeed "play whatever" in your raid attempts, you were intentionally  dragging yourself and other players in that group down by choosing to play inefficiently. And those players being okay with it does not change what you did.

[Macabre.3829]

On 12/9/2021 at 9:32 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

Other professions F skills don't give them an extra 3 sets of weapon skills. Even without weapon swap elementalists and engineers can have more skills available to them at once than any other profession.

 

Deadeye is a ranged specialisation, but that still doesn't mean a thief using it has to be a purely ranged, they still have access to their other weapons and can use them if they want to.

But you haven't explained - what is it that is forcing you into melee on this character? What parts of the game can't you play using a rifle? If you can tell us that we can probably find a work-around so you don't have to swap if you don't want to.

 

High end content and maximizing your dps without having to weapon swap is what annoys me.
Currently I'm just playing a greatsword dragonhunter without swapping, but my dps goes up if I weapon swap, which is just annoying.

[Ashen.2907]

I am not fond of that aspect of the game either. The difference in performance between multi-step weapon swap rotations and playing the weapon you wanted for your character conceptually is vast so I do it, but not a fan.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

23 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I feel like you're playing with the wrong people or maybe pugging. I never feel forced to swap weapons at a certain point in my rotation. I don't even use a rotation.  I've killed a few raid bosses, all the strike bosses, and have done every fractals (though I haven't tried the CMs).  Seems to me, a group might insist you swap weapons because they're tracking your DPS but I don't play with those people.

It's not just a damage thing.  Some weapon sets give buffs or debuffs relevant to the party comp(Guardian symbols, mesmer focus pulls, boon corruption from necro scepter,  slow from renegade shortbow, etc).  Not swapping weapons to those sorts can cause big problems for other players who rely on those buffs & debuffs for t heir build to work at maximum efficiency.

[Vayne.8563]

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

When i said "at higher level play" i did not meant specific content, but rather at the level when you start being interested in playing as best as possible. Or, as i mentioned in one of the followup posts, when you are "not making choices that can significantly negatively affect your play level for purely thematic reasons. "

So, (let me quote myself again):

So, basically, if you did indeed "play whatever" in your raid attempts, you were intentionally  dragging yourself and other players in that group down by choosing to play inefficiently. And those players being okay with it does not change what you did.

I play games to have fun. As long as I'm beating content (and I'm beating content), I'm happy to not run a rotation that will kill my shoulder and negatively affect my overall gameplay experience by playing less.  It is a choice. I'm choosing what's fun and less painful over what's efficient because games are meant to be fun. You can play a game to be efficient if you like but that's a decision.  I play games to have fun. Being efficient is great, if it doesn't decrease the fun factor for me.

[Vayne.8563]

28 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

It's not just a damage thing.  Some weapon sets give buffs or debuffs relevant to the party comp(Guardian symbols, mesmer focus pulls, boon corruption from necro scepter,  slow from renegade shortbow, etc).  Not swapping weapons to those sorts can cause big problems for other players who rely on those buffs & debuffs for t heir build to work at maximum efficiency.

I don't play characters that are responsible for buffing. If I did, I'd make sure I buffed. But you're talking about very specific situations in very specific content, which the vast majority of the playerbase of this game doesn't play regularly and my guess is most have never touched. 

 

There are ways to play the way I play without severely inconveniencing people. When I'm really trying I can get about 15k DPS, enough to complete a raid if everyone was doing that much...but probably not enough to complete a raid quickly and efficiently. I play with a couple of people who carry and do a lot of damage and generally a bunch of people learning, but we still clear bosses on the rare occasions I raid. 

I'm simply not playing the character that gives everyone alacrity or quickness.

 

That said, for 90 plus percent of my time in game I'm in the open world or story instances or meta events like the vast majority of this game.  In PvP or WVW I'm not running with organized groups.  And the level of PvP I'm playing if my side were to meet an organized group we wouldn't be winning anyway.

 

Yes, for those people who consistently raid or do T4 CMs it's more important to swap weapons (and I'm not saying I never do). As so for the maybe 5% of the game that play at the level (yes I'm pulling a number out of my kitten), feel free to swap as much as you want, or use the most complex rotation. For the rest of us, ie most of us, it's a choice.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

59 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I'm simply not playing the character that gives everyone alacrity or quickness.

 

My guy, there are 12 boons; 6 defensive boons dedicated to damage & Control mitigation (Aegis, Protection, Regeneration, Resistance, Resolution, Stability), 4 offensive boons dedicated to allowing more damage either through raw stats or coooldown & cast time reductions (Might, Quickness, Fury, Alacrity), and 2 mobility boons dedicated to enhancing movement speed and vigor regeneration (Vigor, Swiftness).  These are useful to have anywhere  and in any content. Not simply raids and t4 fractals.   There's also at least 8 unique class-based buffs that are useful to have.

Likewise, (As an example) people will notice the firebrand that does more than just poop out quickness but also applies aegis & stability intelligently to mitigate tons of damage and stop enemy CC.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[ArchonWing.9480]

45 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Likewise, (As an example) people will notice the firebrand that does more than just poop out quickness but also applies aegis & stability intelligently to mitigate tons of damage and stop enemy CC.

Incidentally, all of that can be done without swapping weapons because they don't come from weapon skills.

 

Healbrands just switch to staff if more mights or heals are needed, but it's possible to to finish fights in non-CM fractals without ever needing to do that. Condi Quickness does it for a bit more dps but it's actually a loss if done wrong.

Also scourge only needs to swap to warhorn when CC is needed. Scepter should be the only main hand. In fact, Snowcrows doesn't even list a secondary weaponset for Scourge.

These classes are actually pretty good candidates for people that don't like weapon swapping though yes, sometimes they may have to. (the horror))

Edited December 12, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Alcatraznc.3869]

5 hours ago, Macabre.3829 said:

 

High end content and maximizing your dps without having to weapon swap is what annoys me.
Currently I'm just playing a greatsword dragonhunter without swapping, but my dps goes up if I weapon swap, which is just annoying.

 

I mean yeah ? If you use all your high damaging skill and switch to your second weapon set, you have access to new high damaging skill that have separate CD from your first weapon set. And once you switch back again, your CD will be reset (at least some of them) allowing you to re-use more high damaging skill. That is not really rocket science.

 

There are some weapon where the auto attack is high enough to discourages you to use other skill but if every weapon can achieve and maintain very high DPS by just pressing 1 button, then what would be the point of making other skill ? I'm not saying you should be playing Osu mania or Rush E on your keyboard just to have high DPS (though this is what weaver can feel like) however you if your goal is to maintain high DPS then you should know when to switch weapon to use the best high damaging skill at the best moment with short waiting time.