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Even though I'm not a huge fan of the map itself, with the introduction of alliances likely continuing to become more permanent and with the expansion around the corner one could likely anticipate longer queues while connecting to WvW. With these queues, as I think this was originally intended (could be wrong), overflowing into the Edge of the Mists seems ideal but with a lack of true reason for being there (let's be honest, supplies at the home citadel doesn't seem to be enticing to anyone) the map has become dead outside of GvGs at the arena that I'm sure most players don't even know about.

My immediate thought is why not give an additional pip to the team that holds the most major objectives by the end of the EoTM matchup? And that additional pip per tick will hold until the end of the following matchup?

Or maybe one of you lovely people have a better idea. Or maybe continue leaving the map forgotten. Just a random thought.

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1 minute ago, Doidermont.1085 said:

Even though I'm not a huge fan of the map itself, with the introduction of alliances likely continuing to become more permanent and with the expansion around the corner one could likely anticipate longer queues while connecting to WvW. With these queues, as I think this was originally intended (could be wrong), overflowing into the Edge of the Mists seems ideal but with a lack of true reason for being there (let's be honest, supplies at the home citadel doesn't seem to be enticing to anyone) the map has become dead outside of GvGs at the arena that I'm sure most players don't even know about.

My immediate thought is why not give an additional pip to the team that holds the most major objectives by the end of the EoTM matchup? And that additional pip per tick will hold until the end of the following matchup?

Or maybe one of you lovely people have a better idea. Or maybe continue leaving the map forgotten. Just a random thought.

Kind of like the thought.  I think one of the problems might be, (though I am not sure it will be this way with alliances) is that the green ‘teams’ each week may be higher population.  Thus have a better chance of taking first in EoTM?  Though I think that started to decrease after 1 up 1 down..

 

I also imagine people would clamor for pips to be added to EoTM if we went to your idea..  Which I would be opposed to..

 

But some aspect of a bonus to the worlds given from EoTM success would be nice.  
 

(I also would like them to return regular XP to EoTM.  People used it to level up and maybe it would convince some more players to sample WvW after…)

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Maybe give the pip instead of the supply for winning the eotm match. But then what's the incentive for players in eotm? the only one they would want is to earn pips and skirmish rewards in eotm too. Unless maybe they do something else, like say give 2x reward track progress instead in eotm.

 

So if you want skirmish track rewards play wvw to earn your pips there, if you want faster reward track rewards then play eotm? which could be really good for those just hunting for gift of battles or tomes of knowledge to level their characters. Gives them a more relaxing place to k-train around for it, maybe eventually make them comfortable enough to try wvw.

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2 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

I also imagine people would clamor for pips to be added to EoTM if we went to your idea..  Which I would be opposed to..

 

Which i'm sure will happen, but I could see that creating a reverse issue where EoTM becomes more valuable than the main maps so I would hope Anet would never agree to that.

 

2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

So if you want skirmish track rewards play wvw to earn your pips there, if you want faster reward track rewards then play eotm? which could be really good for those just hunting for gift of battles or tomes of knowledge to level their characters. Gives them a more relaxing place to k-train around for it, maybe eventually make them comfortable enough to try wvw.

 

I like the thought of this.

And because of the way instancing works with EoTM it may need to be more reliant on match score to determine winners but either way. Ultimately, better rewards to encourage activity in EoTM. They could include greater WvW XP gain too but with more reaching 10k and a lack of reward beyond a singular title, there would need to be a better and more expansive WvW level reward system which is an entirely separate issue.
 

2 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

(I also would like them to return regular XP to EoTM.  People used it to level up and maybe it would convince some more players to sample WvW after…)

 

Yeah, I'm sure they had a reason but I'm not sure that removing it really brought any merit.

As an additional side thought, the bloodlust bonus from ruins could include a better reward for holding them such as increased reward track exp, which could then encourage more unique open field fights.

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Just pointing out that because of the way EotM works with multiple maps, you could have a situation where all 3 colours won a game at the same time. So all three sides could get the bonus. Not sure how they handle that currently with the bonus Supply.

 

I like the discussion, always wanted to see EotM finding its own "role" in the game.

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Well, there are multiple adjustments that will be needed, which combined will require to completely redesign both, the map and how EotM functions. 
one would be the reward system on the map itself. I´m not 100% sure if awarding pips would be a solution, but since it´s an overflow-map, rewards shouldn´t be as high as in actual WvW, but high enough to make it worth to play more frequently. 
I also think that the EotM in general lacks impact on the Borderland-/EBG-match, since winning "only" provides supplies. Yes, these extra supplies are helpful, but don´t impact the general gameplay that much. 

About the  idea with additional Pips for winning the EotM-match: i kinda like the idea, but there´s the problem again with balancing it out. How many pips are enough reward, while not making it not too good to reduce population on the borders. It´s still an overflow map after all. 

The other things that have to change are core mechanics of the map, which will most likely require a complete overhaul of the map itself. The map is huge and mobility is limited. I would really appreciate mounts and gliding in EotM, but this would probably break some parts of the map (at least gliding would). I assume, the changes needed to make it work are too much to realize with just adjustments, so building it from scratch would be more realistic. However, remember the introduction of the desert-border? ANet would have to be extremely careful with an overhaul of the EotM-map. 

Then there´s the problem with allocating resources to a potential EotM rework. We have EoD coming up, and World Restructuring in development. I highly doubt that ANet does havy any free resources to even think about EotM right now. This might be subject to change ofc, but i don´t expect anything at all. And even though it´s not toooo long until EoD, ANet will for sure need to do a lot of balance changes for a while after release. 



 

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5 hours ago, Mattmatt.4962 said:

Why did they remove rewards in the first place ?

Just make it normal reward. No need for impact on "real wvw". Its an overflowmap. Not some sort of jailw where youre punished by not having rewards

They didn’t ‘remove rewards’. 
 

Regular XP was removed from WvW and EoTM.    With each level gain for World Xp, you get a tome of knowledge which allows to you gain a character level 

 

They also added Skirmish tracks (ie pips and skirmish tickets) to WvW and left them out of EoTM. 
 

They added reward tracks to both.

 

What some would like is to add pips to EoTM.  And those of us who view the skirmish track as a WvW dependent reward, oppose it.  

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I understand why skirmish tracks aren't included in EotM but that's the main reason I never go there. Given the choice between 4 WvW maps with the same rewards and 1 with less it seems illogical to pick the one with less.

Admittedly I can't remember ever seeing such long queues for the normal maps that I couldn't get in, so I don't really need to go there but back before skirmish tracks were added I basically treated it as a 5th map and would play on whichever was most active, but since then it's become the obviously inferior choice.

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51 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, if EotM had the same pips and reward track progress I'd play there. According to some people if we're playing for rewards we're doing it wrong, so then why isn't EotM overflowing with blobs blobbing each other?

Have all three weights in the WvW armor.  Have the back piece.

 

You would have to force me to play EoTM.  I would much rather play WvW with the people I know and want to work with.  That’s the whole reason for an MMO to me.  
 

So yeah, EoTM isn’t WvW.  Find a different reward set for that map.  It shouldn’t be a WvW specific reward is all.  

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52 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, if EotM had the same pips and reward track progress I'd play there. According to some people if we're playing for rewards we're doing it wrong, so then why isn't EotM overflowing with blobs blobbing each other?

most likely because of the missing impact into the actual matchup (as well as the non-existend Pips, which greatly reduces your reward-track progress). The part with rewards most likely applies to WvW in general. The time spent in WvW converted into gold gained within that timeframe is less than almost any other activity in the game. We could probably be happy that WvW is not such as a gold-sink anymore as it used to be in the early days without reward-tracks, pips, where siege and upgrades had actual costs etc.

EotM is missing many features people got used to (gliding, mounts, guild-claim and upgrading), while giving no pips and (partially as a result) less reward track. The paths on the map are long, so if you die you walk an eternity until you are back where you were. 
And the only advantage of winning a round in etom is some supplies for your color´s citadel, which is nice to have, but doesn´t really  have high impact on the match. 

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I admit, I like the map, it was interesting and allowed for a lot of different tactics. It had areas for open field fighting, ambush areas, choke points and differing tactics per objective. Others had different issues with it, but to me it was the fact that players found ways to abuse it, giving it a bad name and it wasn't integrated into the weekly scoring so any time you spent there you weren't aiding your server effectively. Personally, others feel different, would love to see it come and replace one of the ABL maps. 

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26 minutes ago, Custodio.6134 said:

most likely because of the missing impact into the actual matchup (as well as the non-existend Pips, which greatly reduces your reward-track progress). The part with rewards most likely applies to WvW in general. The time spent in WvW converted into gold gained within that timeframe is less than almost any other activity in the game. We could probably be happy that WvW is not such as a gold-sink anymore as it used to be in the early days without reward-tracks, pips, where siege and upgrades had actual costs etc.


EotM is missing many features people got used to (gliding, mounts, guild-claim and upgrading), while giving no pips and (partially as a result) less reward track. The paths on the map are long, so if you die you walk an eternity until you are back where you were. 
And the only advantage of winning a round in etom is some supplies for your color´s citadel, which is nice to have, but doesn´t really  have high impact on the match. 

It is missing some features, but those are also features that people regularly QQ all over and want gone from WvW.  I could see Warclaw being good there given the scale of the map, but gliding would break a few areas.

I think it is kind of funny how there is so much QQ over things like Warclaw, tactics, claim buffs, rewards of any sort causing spawn afkers and yet in the map where none of that is present said people don't go play.

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10 minutes ago, Custodio.6134 said:

most likely because of the missing impact into the actual matchup (as well as the non-existend Pips, which greatly reduces your reward-track progress). The part with rewards most likely applies to WvW in general. The time spent in WvW converted into gold gained within that timeframe is less than almost any other activity in the game. We could probably be happy that WvW is not such as a gold-sink anymore as it used to be in the early days without reward-tracks, pips, where siege and upgrades had actual costs etc.

EotM is missing many features people got used to (gliding, mounts, guild-claim and upgrading), while giving no pips and (partially as a result) less reward track. The paths on the map are long, so if you die you walk an eternity until you are back where you were. 
And the only advantage of winning a round in etom is some supplies for your color´s citadel, which is nice to have, but doesn´t really  have high impact on the match. 

 

EoTM would excel with mounts and gliding. Already before if you were knocked off the edge if you weren't DOT'd you would have time to scroll out and hit a waypoint but a lot of people never tried that and just complained about fall death since they hadn't run into that here due to flat maps. Though positioning was their own issue. EoTM required positional awareness which to some adds to the gameplay in a fight. As far as scoring, still believe with changes to which maps are joinable there were workable options to integrate scoring into the weekly matches. Example one issue brought up over time was the grouping of green red and blue, which considering tier differences could have been balanced more by not forcing like color but layering them in. Simple example using NA from the past prior to Alliance balancing EoTM Green could have been T1-Red Group, T2 Blue Group, T3 & T4 Groups. Same thing to Blue & Red, that way it wasn't just server sizes. Even without that Green didn't always dominate. As far as scoring, it would just be a matter of was the map instance balanced or not over the period on average would determine if scoring was added into the weekly total, that with changes to the how many instances were opened would have handled the separation and prevent a lot of this, 'EoTM isn't WvW because it does add to the scoring' discussions. Overall the idea of testing ground, which didn't really happen, and an overflow were good ideas, but with more love it might have worked out better and then it would be part of WvW. So again, if all else fails and we don't have budget for a new map(s) bring it over and make it a fifth map in the WvW set or replace one of the ABLs with it. We have a great sandbox for players but some of that sand needs some refreshing. 

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I've said in the past that I wished they focused reward tracks more, so you could focus on a specific type of rewards, instead of getting a little bit of everything. And I think that same idea might work well on separating EotM as well.

 

If you gave different maps different bonuses, like WotM could give bonus wxp, and thus also double up as a good map for new players to learn the game on and getting a bunch of WXP ranks at the same time. Where EBG and the BL's could have their own bonuses to separate them.

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Edge of the Mists - Gigantic map without mount and gliding

which it desperately needs

With that, I am sure more players will visit it.

I have a thread somewhere in here for EotM to be more directly involve with WvW.
it involved Supply chain - whom so ever holds EotM has faster yak and more supply per delivery* 

 

Now that we have the Alliance System in place soon,
your Allies should be fighting in EotM and or some random PvE maps for supply or Buffs like bloodlust.
 

*Not what I originally proposed, 
supply chain is important.

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  • 1 month later...

I personally would do it all over again to give gw2 what is missing on the player vs player side. an organized or automatic gvg spece.

map, practically only smc with open doors and 3 waypoints on the three sides of the teams.

game mode, practically similar to pvp, build your team with a maximum limit of 30 players, when you think you are ready book the game. when the system sees two more teams ready, the game begins. 

duration, something like 30 minutes and wins that has kept the lord of its color longer. ( generated a lord is immediately attackable )

in short, a map built for teams of typical guild size (if you consider yourself skilled enough you can enter even with only 15 players)

on this build a calssifica, so the guilds can confront each other and say we are the best.

the real risk is that a lot of players will end up there at the expense of other traditional maps.

 

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