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It's time to un-paper turrets in PvE


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1 hour ago, Naxos.2503 said:

I think to simplify their position : The skills being nerfed for every engineers because it was used for farming felt as a form of unwarranted punishment to all engineers who Did not farm, and they're quite many. In that sense I wholeheartedly agree with them. The skills were nerfed when it comes to their activation and resistance to strikes. They're completely irrelevant in any fight against other players, because they can be downed in 2 or sometime 1 hit, which can be done accidentally with cleaving. It's a pretty skewed handicap in a place where farming isn't even relevant.

I can also easily say that the necessity of such nerf seems unwaranted when necromancers can do the exact same thing with impunity, making it a very skewed nerf for the same reason. People will say that you have to stay active for the necro farming, but the fact is, most people do it with a macro using the same skill over and over, which makes it automated farming, exactly the same thing turrets have been nerfed for.

Lastly if turrets are beyond saving, then I'd like them to be replaced by something else that is atleast functional : Engineers essentially have 5 skills that are barely picked across the board because of that nerf, making them dead weight. If they dont want engineers to use turrets, they could give us something else atleast.

You're coming from a PvP perspective, in which I do agree the majority of the complaints of the past.

But this thread targets solely for PvE contents, where boosted turret durability isn't all that much useful but in stationary farming, which is only useful in the exploit anyways.

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The problem with the turrets is they are copy&paste from TF2  engineer but without need to maintenance them  as a player.

Basically you in gw2 case you need to click on them or they will explode after a while. You can also make it so that no other turret can be build to close together.

 

Necros and their pet zoo have a similar problem historically you need dead bodies to create ghouls&zombies which also balance things out in PvP because you need to kill someone before you can raise a 'pet' . Also they have more then often a limited life time to avoid in PvE to Afk bot.

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7 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

You're coming from a PvP perspective, in which I do agree the majority of the complaints of the past.

But this thread targets solely for PvE contents, where boosted turret durability isn't all that much useful but in stationary farming, which is only useful in the exploit anyways.

In this particular example yes, but mind that some Mobs do deal cleaving damage. Attempt to use any turret in Tequatl or Drakkar for example, and watch them last exactly 1 swipe.

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6 hours ago, Naxos.2503 said:

In this particular example yes, but mind that some Mobs do deal cleaving damage. Attempt to use any turret in Tequatl or Drakkar for example, and watch them last exactly 1 swipe.

This hasn't changed before the turret sustainability nerf, as world bosses hits much harder than players that makes these sustainability buffs irrelevant.

 

Edited by Vilin.8056
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I do believe that if AFK-farming is an issue, it should be easy to build a mechanic to overcome it, that is beyond nerfing playstyles some people like and find interesting.

One thing that comes to mind is a buff (PvE only) to keep turrets active. If this buff wears out all turrets and minions will dissapear. The buff is renewed whenever you press skill 2 to skill 0 (and in some cases F1-F4). This means that auto-attack and relying on turrets/minions/clones will no longer work, while regular players have almost no issues with it.

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On 12/14/2021 at 2:29 PM, Vilin.8056 said:

You're comparing apple and oranges. As said, these skills aren't nerfed but rather have their damage boosted unless you're simply camping behind automated attacks.

The whole argument exist simply because you lack the understanding of the class and the skillset, nothing more.

no it's not, and also straw-man arguments are bad arguments. Your logic and reason is lacking. Someone doing something against the EULA does not impute all people using Turrets.

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3 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

This is simply a lie. They get pierced by piercing projectiles and stop non-piercing projectiles.

It's been a long time since I've actually used turret (pretty much since the change to the overcharge skill) I essentially read that on the wiki. If that information is incorrect, I stand corrected, and the info on the wiki should be clarified to reflect that.

It states

  • Projectile attacks will damage and pass through turrets.
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6 hours ago, Tungsten Monarch.6058 said:

no it's not, and also straw-man arguments are bad arguments. Your logic and reason is lacking. Someone doing something against the EULA does not impute all people using Turrets.

Neither is there a logical reason to boost something in PvE just to exploit the EULA, especially the whole skillsets are generally boosted in PvE modes.

The problem doesn't lie in the game, just you needing to learn the class.

Edited by Vilin.8056
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39 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Neither is there a logical reason to boost something in PvE just to exploit the EULA, especially the whole skillsets are generally boosted in PvE modes.

The problem doesn't lie in the game, just you needing to learn the class.

this is not about learning the class, there is no basis for you to make that claim, thus you're making a personal attack when it's not warranted.  If a boost is called for, it's due to a similar mechanic in another class, that is far more effective, in order to balance out the two mechanics from being very imbalanced. Also,  I'm not arguing for an exploit of the EULA. Someone violating the EULA is not a reason to nerf an entire skill set. The EULA should be an irrelivant argument altogether for skill balancing. So try to make a better argument without bringing up EULA issues.

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27 minutes ago, Naxos.2503 said:

It's been a long time since I've actually used turret (pretty much since the change to the overcharge skill) I essentially read that on the wiki. If that information is incorrect, I stand corrected, and the info on the wiki should be clarified to reflect that.

It states

  • Projectile attacks will damage and pass through turrets.

Being objects doesn't result in auto-pierce either. Tested against objects that has been in game since the original beta.

Bad information is not useful for a discussion.

That particular bit of information didn't look very credible because auto-piercing is a weird attribute to have.

Haven't tested damage reduction from indirect attacks since that is a bit more tricky test.

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48 minutes ago, Tungsten Monarch.6058 said:

this is not about learning the class, there is no basis for you to make that claim, thus you're making a personal attack when it's not warranted.  If a boost is called for, it's due to a similar mechanic in another class, that is far more effective, in order to balance out the two mechanics from being very imbalanced. Also,  I'm not arguing for an exploit of the EULA. Someone violating the EULA is not a reason to nerf an entire skill set. The EULA should be an irrelivant argument altogether for skill balancing. So try to make a better argument without bringing up EULA issues.

I have repeatedly stated that the skillset is actually moderately boosted in PvE haven't I? And you are the first to bring up personal attack.

So far you haven't yet bringing up a valid PvE scenario to prove your point except just argue for the sake of arguing.

Simply put, it's simply a learning curve issue rather than a design flaw. 

This will be my last response to you, as there hasn't been anything related to real game scenario to make an constructive point.

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11 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

I have repeatedly stated that the skillset is actually moderately boosted in PvE haven't I? And you are the first to bring up personal attack.

So far you haven't yet bringing up a valid PvE scenario to prove your point except just argue for the sake of arguing.

Simply put, it's simply a learning curve issue rather than a design flaw. 

This will be my last response to you, as there hasn't been anything related to real game scenario to make an constructive point.

again with the L2P backhanded comments, Thank you for letting everyone know you won't respond to this reply. 1) The turrets are very weak in comparison to Necromancer minions. They are weak in comparison to what they were on the years following release. You brought up EULA issues, my reply remains runefuted, thus nerfing a skill like due to someone breaking EULA is not a realistic measure of the performance of the skill, when compared to other summoned "pets" used in actual game play. So make a better argument next time and stop resorting with L2P passive aggressive insults. I must wonder if you're simply projecting or just not listening to what many others have said in this discussion.

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Maybe they should have large ranges and Ammo instead of durations and linger until that ammo is spent or the player moves far enough away for them to despawn.
Turrets will only attack and spend ammo if they have a valid target to attack.
I imagine something like this.

Healing Turret:
Fires healing bullets at players in range that heal small amounts and give regen boon.
Players can only be healed once every 2-3 seconds by the same turret.
Detonating the turret destroys it and does short range AoE healing to all nearby players based on how much ammo the turret has left.
Toolbelt skill causes the turret to dispense medpacks around the area that only allies can interact with.
Using this skill costs a chunk of the turrets ammo.

Flame Turret:
Fires medium range Flamethrowers at the target dealing more damage and applying more burns the closer the target is to the turret.
Detonating the turret destroys it and deals damage based on range, it also leaves a large firefield at it's location that applies burning every second, the field's duration is based on how much ammo the turret had when it was detonated.
Toolbelt skill causes the turret to fire a fireball at the players target dealing damage and burning them while creating a fire field at the targets location for a few seconds.
Using this skill costs a chunk of the turrets ammo.

Net Turret:
Fires slow moving net projectiles at the target that applies a unique debuff which reduces the targets movement speed by 25% for several seconds.
Detonating the turret creates an AoE net effect that reduces the movement speed of enemies who walk or are knocked/pulled into it.
Enemies caught in turrets explosion take low damage and are knocked down and immobilised.
The size of the AoE net effect is based on how much ammo the turret has when detonated.
Toolbelt Skill fires a fast moving net bola that knocks down the target and cripples them.
Using this skill costs a chunk of the turrets ammo.

Rifle Turret:
Fires fast moving long range projectiles that deal moderate damage.
Detonating this turret destroys it and deals decent AoE damage based on range, crippling and weakening foes in the process, duration of these conditions is also based on range.
Toolbelt Skill fires an unblockable piercing shot that can hit up to 5 targets dealing big damage and applying 5-8 stacks of Vulnerability to every target hit.
Using this skill costs a chunk of the turrets ammo.

Rocket Turret:
Fires moderately large AOE explosive projectiles to the targets location when fired (they don't home in on the target, they go to where the target was when the rocket was fired.) their damage is based on how close to the centre of the AoE the enemy is when the rocket explodes.
Detonating the turret destroys it and creates and explosion that deals huge damage and first launches and then dazes foes caught in it, the damage, distance enemies are launched and the duration of the daze effect are all based on how close the enemy is to the turret when it explodes and how much ammo the turret has left when it is detonated.
Toolbelt skill fires a homing rocket at the target that deal's big damage and launches them if it hits.
Using this skill costs a chunk of the turrets ammo.

Thumper Turret:
Deals damage to targets based on range (closer they are more damage it does) deals bonus damage to stunned and movement impared foes.
Detonating the turret destroys it and creates a shockwave AoE that damages, cripples and knocks down enemies.
Range of the shockwave depends on how much ammo the turret has when detonated.
Toolbelt Skill inflicts a short stun and damages enemies (always gives damage after stun to gain bonus damage)
Using this skill costs a chunk of the turrets ammo.

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