Prestige items GW2 vs other MMOs

[Ashen.2907]

13 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Olympic winners do not carry their medals around, and yet the people that do care know you're one. If you lose your medal, you're still an olympic winner. And if you see a gold medal without any info about it, you will never know how it was obtained (or whether it's even a genuine article). So, yes, the distinction is very important.

For example, one of my friends has an Oscar statuette decorating his bookcase. It looks very authentic (even though it isn't), but does not confer on him the prestige of an Oscar winner. Disassociated from the actual deed, it's just a nice decoration, nothing more.

To be fair, I have yet to see a GW2 achievement broadcast on national television.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Gem Store items are not prestige items.

Why is this thread 5 pages long when it's based on this premise of a lie?

Edited December 16, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[witcher.3197]

5 hours ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

This would be great, except the OP straight out said you could buy mounts from the GS.

 

. 

This is patently false.  Yes, you can buy the skins, but if you haven't earned the mount through gameplay, you can't use them.

I just explained to you guys what OP meant and you still don't get it because you don't want to.

You and the other guy are trying to nitpick over phrasing, not even acknowledging the real problem OP is trying to discuss. Stop trolling and derailing the thread.

Edited December 16, 2021 by witcher.3197

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, witcher.3197 said:

I just explained to you guys what OP meant and you still don't get it because you don't want to.

You and the other guy are trying to nitpick over phrasing, not even acknowledging the real problem OP is trying to discuss. Stop trolling and derailing the thread.

Did you? because I don't see it ... but if the OP was trying to make a point, please tell us what it was because he didn't do a very good job himself. I'm asking because ... I think it's already been MORE than well covered in this thread and others. But ... go ahead, tell us what this problem is.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[robertthebard.8150]

1 hour ago, witcher.3197 said:

I just explained to you guys what OP meant and you still don't get it because you don't want to.

You and the other guy are trying to nitpick over phrasing, not even acknowledging the real problem OP is trying to discuss. Stop trolling and derailing the thread.

How am I derailing the thread?  Does it not mention a mount as a prestige reward in the opening post?  What's that you say, it does, in fact, list one?  Here's a shocker for you, we have lots of mounts that can't be procured any other way than playing the game, once you own the content.  Now, can you link me to the page where mounts are sold in the Gem Store?  If not, then I'd say I'm right on topic, and fussing about skins is pointless, since all they add is a different appearance.  All of the functionality of the mounts is tied directly to each of the mounts.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I dont know what the OP is trying to prove. Anyone can buy the skyscale skin but not everyone can use it. The prestige isnt even in the gemstore, it's the mount itself you have to unlock.

 

And who cares anyway ? If tomorrow Anet released a skin for skyscale only obtainable in high end raid and suddently a random pro raider spawn in front of me with this skin, it aint going to change my life. If the skin is ugly I'll just think it's ugly, if it's nice, I'll think kitten it looks nice. Period. Are you playing the game just to brag about your achievement or are you playing the game to have fun ? How much do you care about what other thinks of you ? Why do you even care to begin with ? 

[yann.1946]

8 hours ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

How am I derailing the thread?  Does it not mention a mount as a prestige reward in the opening post? 

And any minimal charitable read of the op would be interpreted as talking about mountskins, not mounts. 

8 hours ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

What's that you say, it does, in fact, list one?  Here's a shocker for you, we have lots of mounts that can't be procured any other way than playing the game, once you own the content.  Now, can you link me to the page where mounts are sold in the Gem Store?  If not, then I'd say I'm right on topic,

As I mentioned above, it's pretty clear that the op is talking about mountskins. 

8 hours ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

and fussing about skins is pointless, since all they add is a different appearance.  All of the functionality of the mounts is tied directly to each of the mounts.

The OP's problem is not with functionality though, it's about being able to show off mountskins (among other things) as proof of accomplishment. 

 

[witcher.3197]

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Did you? because I don't see it ... but if the OP was trying to make a point, please tell us what it was because he didn't do a very good job himself. I'm asking because ... I think it's already been MORE than well covered in this thread and others. But ... go ahead, tell us what this problem is.

GW2 has a cosmetic endgame.

All the best cosmetics come from the store, and there are entire categories of items that can only be obtained through the store, like mount skins. 

This screws up the entire reward structure of the game, because prestigeous rewards tied to completing certain types of content are vital for the health of an MMO - which we can't have, because Anet won't make ingame rewards compete with the store.

Store items don't have any prestige, and the store sucks up all the best skins. Why invest time into an activity, when investing credit card money can get you the same thing faster? Gemstore is the endgame.

That is the problem.

Edited December 17, 2021 by witcher.3197

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

All the best cosmetics come from the store,

Stop there ... that's wrong. I'm going to let you think about why. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Teratus.2859]

On 12/16/2021 at 3:32 PM, Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:

I mean, perhaps the lack of super pretigious exclusive items is what makes most people not want to do hard content in the first place, Legendary Armor is the prime example of this, a lot of people only do raids because of it, some abandon it after getting all sets, some like the content and keep doing it, but this "prestige" item is what atract quite a few players to this type of content.

If we had some exclusive mount, outfits and gliders skins on high end PvE, PvP and WvW, maybe the interest for these modes would actually increase, but as it stands now, why put in the effort to do a Raid when i get way more rewards doing easier content like Open World and Fractals.

Well im not interested in getting into another tedious and pointless raid debate lol
But i've said many times the lack of rare rewards isn't the main thing keep people away from it.
Some people do jump on it for the legendary armour but it's a band aid at best, same as all rare rewards are there.

Main reasons people don't raid have been said many many times by many people, myself included.
For the most part the majority of players in Gw2 simply don't care about this kind of content and will never play it.. this one is generally agreed upon by raiders as well.

There are others who are or were willing in the past to try but were put off by negative experiences and toxicity and many of them have walked away from the content entirely and no longer care if it dies anymore.
(I fall into this one myself)

Some are put off by the content simply being too difficult to get into or requiring branching out from the game onto 3rd party sites/platforms or installing mods like ARKdps which they simply don't have any interest in doing what so ever.

Others are put off by what they read and see online about "raids being toxic" which from my experience many raiders seem to think is the main reason raids are stagnating.
It's a contributing factor at best I will admit that, but it's a symptom of the problem not the problem itself as many i've argued with over literal years seem to think.

But I've had these raid discussions over and over and over and over again for years.. and im sick of them.
I'm only bringing it up because it's relevant in my response, but I have no intention of addressing any responses made arguing specifically against what I said above about raiding.

The other content such as PvP and WvW simply doesn't cater to a lot of the playerbase either.
The vast majority of people who play Gw2 don't care for non passive competitive gamemodes.
It's simply not something they enjoy so it's a complete lost cause trying to advertise those modes to them with fancy rare cosmetic rewards.
The gameplay itself is what will ultimately sell those modes and while it's good to throw a few fancy skins in here and there it's not all that important, at least nowhere near as important as it is in the Fashion Wars PvE game.
I would argue that finishers would be more at home as rare rewards in competitive but from what I see often enough a lot of PvPers and WvWers despise the downstate mechanic anyway.

If they were to add anything to WvW and PvP (reward wise) that I think would entice players who enjoy that content to play it more.. I would say Anet needs to look more into that new feature coming with the 3rd gen legendary weapons, the ability to create an animated effect when you kill something, basically it's an on weapon finisher that doesn't require a downstate to trigger.
That!! is something I could see the competitive PvP/WvW community being really interested in if a bunch of PvP/WvW skins ended up getting really cool kill animations like that.
And as a mostly PvE player myself I would definitely want to play a bit more of competitive content to get my hands on a few of them.

This could even be done via weapon infusions that have cosmetic kill animations which would probably be even better since you could have total freedom over what your weapon looks like and what animation it plays when you score a kill.

Lock the bulk of these infusions behind PvP and WvW and you've big incentive to bring people back to those game modes if you ask me.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Teratus.2859

[robertthebard.8150]

5 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

And any minimal charitable read of the op would be interpreted as talking about mountskins, not mounts. 

As I mentioned above, it's pretty clear that the op is talking about mountskins. 

The OP's problem is not with functionality though, it's about being able to show off mountskins (among other things) as proof of accomplishment. 

 

Except that you can't buy the actual proof of accomplishment from the GS, you have to earn it in game.  Having the skins is pointless, if you don't have anything to apply them to.  So, the actual accomplishment here is obtaining the mount, so that you have something to do with those marvelous skins.

To put it another way, which is more prestigious:

1. Getting your griffon;

2.  Getting out your credit card/using gold to buy gems, and buying a skin off the GS?

[witcher.3197]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Stop there ... that's wrong. I'm going to let you think about why. 

You want me to stop so you can keep telling yourself there isn't a problem? Sure.

Edited December 17, 2021 by witcher.3197

[Obtena.7952]

34 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

You want me to stop so you can keep telling yourself there isn't a problem? Sure.

No, I'm stopping you cause what you said was wrong and it's the premise of your argument a problem exists in the first place. In otherwords, you can't tell me there is a problem based on something that is false. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[yann.1946]

1 hour ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

Except that you can't buy the actual proof of accomplishment from the GS, you have to earn it in game.

Yes, thats ops point. Ho wants more ingame earnable rewards.

1 hour ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

Having the skins is pointless, if you don't have anything to apply them to. 

Nobody disagrees with this.

1 hour ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

So, the actual accomplishment here is obtaining the mount,

Depends on the mount. 

1 hour ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

so that you have something to do with those marvelous skins.

To put it another way, which is more prestigious:

1. Getting your griffon;

2.  Getting out your credit card/using gold to buy gems, and buying a skin off the GS?

Exactly, and the op wants more mountskins to represent accomplisments.  Your making the exact same point he is. 🙂

Mountskins which are not buyable, but earnable with in game accomplisments.

 

[yann.1946]

2 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

The other content such as PvP and WvW simply doesn't cater to a lot of the playerbase either.

True

2 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

The vast majority of people who play Gw2 don't care for non passive competitive gamemodes.
It's simply not something they enjoy so it's a complete lost cause trying to advertise those modes to them with fancy rare cosmetic rewards.

That is not completely true.

The goal with ading fancy rewards is not to get everyone enjoying it, but getting people who would enjoy it and havent tried in those modes. 

2 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

The gameplay itself is what will ultimately sell those modes and while it's good to throw a few fancy skins in here and there it's not all that important, at least nowhere near as important as it is in the Fashion Wars PvE game.
I would argue that finishers would be more at home as rare rewards in competitive but from what I see often enough a lot of PvPers and WvWers despise the downstate mechanic anyway.

Fancy finishers would be cool, except you can not really use them a lot in pve. So that defeats parts of the goal.

2 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

If they were to add anything to WvW and PvP (reward wise) that I think would entice players who enjoy that content to play it more.. I would say Anet needs to look more into that new feature coming with the 3rd gen legendary weapons, the ability to create an animated effect when you kill something, basically it's an on weapon finisher that doesn't require a downstate to trigger.
That!! is something I could see the competitive PvP/WvW community being really interested in if a bunch of PvP/WvW skins ended up getting really cool kill animations like that.
And as a mostly PvE player myself I would definitely want to play a bit more of competitive content to get my hands on a few of them.

 

Completely agree

2 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

This could even be done via weapon infusions that have cosmetic kill animations which would probably be even better since you could have total freedom over what your weapon looks like and what animation it plays when you score a kill.

Lock the bulk of these infusions behind PvP and WvW and you've big incentive to bring people back to those game modes if you ask me.

The only problem is that gen 3 legendaries are getting inside that rewardspace.

[robertthebard.8150]

2 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

Yes, thats ops point. Ho wants more ingame earnable rewards.

Nobody disagrees with this.

Depends on the mount. 

Exactly, and the op wants more mountskins to represent accomplisments.  Your making the exact same point he is. 🙂

Mountskins which are not buyable, but earnable with in game accomplisments.

 

It's nice that you can "clarify" their point, but, and there's always a but, that's not what they've said.  Maybe you've got some insight, because you're in their guild, or through private messaging, but the thread's direction is anything but "add more rewards to gameplay" and more "feel free to buy all your rewards".  Skins aren't a reward, the mounts are.  Skins are a decoration, and believe it or not, the mounts function just as well with the default skin as they do with any other one.

Getting a griffon is an accomplishment, buying or getting a skin for it through any other means, is not.  If you don't have the griffon, the skin is useless.  So, I guess my perspective is more that I'm not looking at what skin someone is running on their mount, but the fact that they actually have the mount.  Maybe it's because I'm not all that "materialistic".  But if I were inclined to be impressed by the mount, it would be having it, not what it looks like, that impresses me.  Hence "prestige".

[kharmin.7683]

3 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

The goal with ading fancy rewards is not to get everyone enjoying it, but getting people who would enjoy it and havent tried in those modes. 

 

Wasn't the warclaw supposed to help with that in WvW?  I wonder how many players, who weren't already involved with that mode, actually stayed once they had acquired the mount?

[robertthebard.8150]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

Wasn't the warclaw supposed to help with that in WvW?  I wonder how many players, who weren't already involved with that mode, actually stayed once they had acquired the mount?

I never even played it because the reward wasn't enticing enough to get me in it.  So, if they were aiming to get more players with that reward, it failed miserably.  It's not an allergy to PvP either, since I played Aion from the 2nd closed beta until just after it went F2P, and spent entire weekends doing nothing else but PvP.

[yann.1946]

Just now, robertthebard.8150 said:

It's nice that you can "clarify" their point, but, and there's always a but, that's not what they've said.  Maybe you've got some insight, because you're in their guild, or through private messaging, but the thread's direction is anything but "add more rewards to gameplay" and more "feel free to buy all your rewards". 

 

I honestly can not understand how someone complaining about rewards being buyable can be interpreted as  "feel free to buy all your rewards". 

Just now, robertthebard.8150 said:

Skins aren't a reward, the mounts are.  Skins are a decoration, and believe it or not, the mounts function just as well with the default skin as they do with any other one.

Skins can be rewards, Nobody is claiming that mounts dont work as well without the mounts.

Can you please explain how anything in this tread suggested that anyone thought that.

Just now, robertthebard.8150 said:

Getting a griffon is an accomplishment, buying or getting a skin for it through any other means, is not.  If you don't have the griffon, the skin is useless.  So, I guess my perspective is more that I'm not looking at what skin someone is running on their mount, but the fact that they actually have the mount.  Maybe it's because I'm not all that "materialistic".  But if I were inclined to be impressed by the mount, it would be having it, not what it looks like, that impresses me.  Hence "prestige".

What if you got  the griffon for free after completing the story, and their was a skin as reward for the current griffon quest?

 

Its also not nessecarily about people being "materialistic". No idea why you brought that up. 

Are you under the impression that someone thinks the gemstore skins are prestige rewards?

[Obtena.7952]

18 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

Yes, thats ops point. Ho wants more ingame earnable rewards.

Even if that's his point, it's objectionable because even if Anet put X rewards in the game, someone could always argue it's not enough. That point itself is pretty nonsensical. 

[robertthebard.8150]

1 minute ago, yann.1946 said:

I honestly can not understand how someone complaining about rewards being buyable can be interpreted as  "feel free to buy all your rewards". 

Skins can be rewards, Nobody is claiming that mounts dont work as well without the mounts.

Can you please explain how anything in this tread suggested that anyone thought that.

What if you got  the griffon for free after completing the story, and their was a skin as reward for the current griffon quest?

 

Its also not nessecarily about people being "materialistic". No idea why you brought that up. 

Are you under the impression that someone thinks the gemstore skins are prestige rewards?

Because they literally said it in this thread...

[yann.1946]

4 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Wasn't the warclaw supposed to help with that in WvW?  I wonder how many players, who weren't already involved with that mode, actually stayed once they had acquired the mount?

I would be interested how succesfull it was. Its probably impossible to know though.(for us atleast.)

[yann.1946]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Even if that's his point, it's objectionable because even if Anet put X rewards in the game, someone could always argue it's not enough. That point itself is pretty nonsensical. 

I agree, completely. 

But that is also an actual argument against the point.

[Obtena.7952]

21 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

I agree, completely. 

But that is also an actual argument against the point.

Right ... but that has nothing to do with what's in the GS either, so it's hard to believe THAT is the point the OP is trying to make. Let's be true here ... cosmetic stuff can (and does) exist in BOTH the GS and ingame as rewards.  The existence of one source of stuff doesn't mean a compromise to the existence or quality of stuff from the other source ... which to me, is what the OP is trying (and failing HARD) to say. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[kharmin.7683]

2 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

I would be interested how succesfull it was. Its probably impossible to know though.(for us atleast.)

I can imagine not very successful. I say that because during the warclaw release there were a lot of complaints about WvW maps being too full and wait times.  Now... crickets.