Anet needs to move away from Open World design and make new dungeons.

[Dromar.1027]

I recently came back to the game because I'm heavily invested in it and wanted to experience Cantha when EoD hits...

 

However upon doing HoT, Pof and LS the maps are just as painful as I remember. Your marred with cliffs and barriers constantly that it makes a person want to scream. Not to mention the mobs and environmental effects that boot you off your mount and kill you in two or three hits. I really had hoped Anet learned a lesson and went back to rework the dungeons so GW2 had a more well-rounded MMO formula of Open World>Dungeons>Raids but I can see they are still hellbent on making the open world as painful as possible. How about instead of making open world so torturous you go back and put that energy into dungeon design outside of Fractals. This game needs more and better dungeons; not open world maps that with mindless gathering and content that foster thoughts of keyboard smashing.

 

At the very least make past map metas easier to complete with a smaller group please. Also for the record I love Fractals and before GW2 was released I was anticipating the original concept of dungeons being a very in depth, 5 man exploratory map where you kill bosses. What ever happened to that concept?

 

I know this seems like a kick in the groin but the abandonment of dungeons doesn't mean the idea within GW2 is bad it just means a lack of talent is present with dungeons.

[moony.5780]

Its my own personal opinion....but i love gw2´s open world 🙂 its there to enjoy and not to rush it. The journey is the reward.

I noticed...everytime i try to rush it, its really frustrating...but after a while it gets extremly easy. Especially with mounts and a good build.

 

But i agree that there should be a bigger focus on dungeons 😄 And i also think, there should be a way to adjust them better...so 5 man or 10 man version of each (because not anyone have 9 friends) and story, normal and hard mode for each 🙂

 

 

 

 

[Mungrul.9358]

I'd prefer it if they added instanced content that was designed for and balanced towards drop-in play, so you didn't have to be too concerned about build or profession.

 

One of my favourite things about Destiny 2 when I played it was the Strike playlist, where you could drop in with randoms at any time, even midway through a mission, and just play together, without it being too difficult and not requiring voice comms.

 

That you could continue playing strikes as long as you liked, and completing one would just advance the playlist to the next one was the icing on the cake.

I was hoping GW2 strikes would be similar to that, but they really aren't.

 

This may come across as too casual for some people, but I genuinely believe there's a proportion of players who would enjoy playing instanced content like this; interesting mechanics, but not so complicated that they can't be picked up with minimal to no communication; a requirement for more than one player, but maybe topping out at three; and automatic replacement of players should they drop mid-mission.

[costepj.5120]

I love these threads, they make me feel like some sort of MMO God, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth. I have a dozen characters of assorted builds that have all successfully mapped open world and completed the various stories. I find it hard to identify with a game experience where you can't venture into a map without dying. Maybe HoT was a challenge in the beginning, but some aspects were nerfed, we all adapted our game play, and then we got mounts.
There's another thread started today which decries the complete lack of challenge in open world. While I don't subscribe to that extreme view either, it seems closer to reality.

[Linken.6345]

23 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

I'd prefer it if they added instanced content that was designed for and balanced towards drop-in play, so you didn't have to be too concerned about build or profession.

 

One of my favourite things about Destiny 2 when I played it was the Strike playlist, where you could drop in with randoms at any time, even midway through a mission, and just play together, without it being too difficult and not requiring voice comms.

 

That you could continue playing strikes as long as you liked, and completing one would just advance the playlist to the next one was the icing on the cake.

I was hoping GW2 strikes would be similar to that, but they really aren't.

 

This may come across as too casual for some people, but I genuinely believe there's a proportion of players who would enjoy playing instanced content like this; interesting mechanics, but not so complicated that they can't be picked up with minimal to no communication; a requirement for more than one player, but maybe topping out at three; and automatic replacement of players should they drop mid-mission.

So like current strikes then no need to communicate at all and mechanics need some understanding to be picked up with randoms.

[kharmin.7683]

I think I'd rather trust Anet to make the decision as to what content provides them with the highest opportunity for profit than some forum posters desires.  There is no need for Anet to move away game design that makes them the most money.  I prefer that they continue to spend a large majority of their resources on content that will keep the company viable rather than cater to a few who want to radically change the company's direction.

[Dromar.1027]

2 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I think I'd rather trust Anet to make the decision as to what content provides them with the highest opportunity for profit than some forum posters desires.  There is no need for Anet to move away game design that makes them the most money.  I prefer that they continue to spend a large majority of their resources on content that will keep the company viable rather than cater to a few who want to radically change the company's direction.

The gemstore fills that need... not open world maps.

[Mungrul.9358]

15 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

So like current strikes then no need to communicate at all and mechanics need some understanding to be picked up with randoms.

Not really at all.

Current strikes don't play in a playlist as far as I'm aware, don't support drop-in play, and require 10 people.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am.

[Rasimir.6239]

1 hour ago, Dromar.1027 said:

so GW2 had a more well-rounded MMO formula of Open World>Dungeons>Raids

No thanks. If your focus is instanced group content, there are plenty of other games out there that focus on that kind of content.

 

The strength of GW2 is its focus on open world content. Maps in this game are not just filler content to funnel players into instanced group content. They are the content itself. To survive and enjoy them, you do need to become a versatile character that is self-sustaining and able to adapt to different situations on the fly.

 

Many of us came here because we don't enjoy being a one-trick pony in a theoretically optimized build that relies on other players filling different "roles" to succeed. We came here because this game allows us to explore the huge world at our own pace instead of running through one small instance after another at a pace set by a whole party rather than the individual.

 

I very much enjoy dungeons, fractals, strikes, and even the occasional raid, but I'm glad to have found one MMO that offers vast worlds and tons of exploration as the main focus. Whenever time permits (which unfortunately isn't all that often due to real life constraints) I can play instanced content, but I'm not forced to do it as my main "occupation" if I want to stay in the loop.

[yann.1946]

While their absolutely is a place for instanced content in the game (we have some teally good pieces their). 

GW2 strength is its openworld. 

[Dromar.1027]

12 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

 Maps in this game are not just filler content...

Your wrong, it's all filler because its the same formula over and over again.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Dromar.1027

[Danikat.8537]

I don't mind small group instances but I much prefer open-world content, especially with dynamic events. If I'm short of time or not feeling very sociable I can still play in open-world maps without having to find and join a group, but more often than not I go in with one specific goal in mind and end up getting drawn into events and other stuff that's going on, even joining a squad or party to help with bounties, champions etc. It's a much lower barrier to entry and then much more varied once I'm doing it and I love that I never quite know what I'm actually going to end up doing when I start. That just can't happen with small instances dedicated to 1 story line or purpose, especially when you have to form your group before going in.

(I'm also not convinced that funnelling all players into dungeons and then raids is universal to MMOs, even ignoring GW2. There's been quite a few I can think of, going back to Ultima Online, where dungeons were optional. Elder Scrolls Online is my other MMO and even though they do bring out new dungeons regularly there's a significant proportion of players who never or rarely play them and prefer to focus on open-world maps. There's even people regularly asking for the option to exclude DLC dungeons from their subscription so they can get everything else and not have to do them at all.)

Edited December 17, 2021 by Danikat.8537

[Mungrul.9358]

10 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I'm also not convinced that funnelling all players into dungeons and then raids is universal to MMOs, even ignoring GW2.

Yeah, this does seem to be more an expectation of a section of the community rather than how the games themselves should be.

As both Guild Wars games were originally built to be something different to the usual, it's a shame to see ANet feel they have to pander to the crowd that lack the imagination to play a game that differs from their personal norm.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Dromar.1027 said:

The gemstore fills that need... not open world maps.

The gemstore may help to support the financials, but the game play is what brings in the players.  If Anet radically changed their direction away from the years of OW content in favor of more instanced content, I believe that their revenue would dramatically suffer.  Raids were to be the thing, but even they had to admit that raiding wasn't as popular within GW2 as they had thought. 

Anet has the statistics and the metrics to know what content brings in the greatest revenue.  Again, I trust that over a random forums poster's desires.

[anninke.7469]

To the OP: No, thank you very much. My keyboard likes its smashing regularly and enjoys it tremendously.

[Rinagal.9235]

I always wondered, how may people ask for instanced content - sessioned cooperative modes where they lock themselves with small group in location isolated from rest of game world, claim that it's what MMO should be like and not see any contradiction in it? What Guild Wars 2 don't need for sure is more focus on instanced content, it's already had been too much lately with Strikes, DRMs and instanced meta-events.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Rinagal.9235

[kharmin.7683]

8 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

I always wondered, how may people ask for instanced content - sessioned cooperative modes where they lock themselves with small group in location isolated from rest of game world, claim that it's what MMO should be like and not see any contradiction in it? What Guild Wars 2 don't need for sure is more focus on instanced content, it's already had been too much lately with Strikes, DRMs and instanced meta-events.

What I typically see is people requesting instances content and then asking for NPC/AI mercs or heroes so that they don't have to team up with other players.  That's not GW2's design or direction, as far as I can tell.  If players want to play instanced content with NPCs, then GW2 is probably not for them.

[Pirogen.9561]

Last time I checked, fractals and raids exists. And a couple of other modes in between.

So where is the problem?

[Borked.6824]

Let's just cut the crap on open world being torturous.  I couldn't imagine a more easily accessible and flexible means of passing time and earning rewards.  With that truth out of the way, I can agree that some focus on dungeons (not fractals, not raids) would be nice, but the moment it jeopardizes the open world identity that GW2 has mastered, it can't stand.  There are an abundance of trash MMOs that prioritize instanced content, and they can stay in their corner with the vertical progression fanatics.

[Fueki.4753]

Open World is the most important part of GW2.

Without a Gear treadmill, transitioning from open world to dungeons to raids isn't a feasible path for Arenanet to take, as player power will not increase.

Contrary to the believe of some people, many players (likely the vast majority in GW2) will not bother to put in effort to get better at games, which causes them to drop off at harder content.

We've seen harder instanced content fail again and again at attracting a sufficient audience.

[Handsel.2891]

4 hours ago, Dromar.1027 said:

This game needs more and better dungeons...

No. You want those. There is a difference.

[Blude.6812]

As long as the dungeons have SP mode option, I'm ok with it.

[Farohna.6247]

8 minutes ago, Blude.6812 said:

As long as the dungeons have SP mode option, I'm ok with it.

I like that solution.  As someone who prefers open world content, I wouldn't mind having the option for solo exploration of dungeons.

[Danikat.8537]

12 minutes ago, Blude.6812 said:

As long as the dungeons have SP mode option, I'm ok with it.

 

Does SP mean single-player?

I tried googling 'SP mode dungeons' and came up with a surprising range of answers, including 'single player', 'story path' (which seems similar in that it's an easier mode) 'skills & powers' which seems to be specific to JRPGs and means you're locked into specific skills and lots of articles about a WoW dungeon called Slave Pens which apparently offers multiple routes to complete it. Of those single-player seems to make the most sense in context, but I'm not sure.

[robertthebard.8150]

34 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Open World is the most important part of GW2.

Without a Gear treadmill, transitioning from open world to dungeons to raids isn't a feasible path for Arenanet to take, as player power will not increase.

Contrary to the believe of some people, many players (likely the vast majority in GW2) will not bother to put in effort to get better at games, which causes them to drop off at harder content.

We've seen harder instanced content fail again and again at attracting a sufficient audience.

The better question is "Why is that content failing".  Is it because of players not having any interest in it, or is it because other players want to be able to view your gear, to determine if you're good enough to be in the content?  You see, I have played a lot of MMOs, and I have played in the grind that is progression raiding for a good part of that, and the biggest obstacle to this content isn't the content itself, it's other players.

We see the "we need more people playing this content" thing all the time, the problem is that we also see the "you must be this tall to ride this ride" posts too.  Some of this doesn't have anything to do with a lack of desire to "Git Gud", but with constantly being  reminded of how inferior they are.

Some examples: 

In swtor, a DPS sage was complaining about the gear on one of the healers in an endgame raid.  Checking their gear score, you can tell they have "all the right stuff", but you can also tell they were carried to it, because during this raid, there is a one shot kill mechanic from the boss that is telegraphed to the nth degree, so that you know to get out of the way, and it's a directional laser attack, with only one path, and they were still crying about the healer's gear when they stood right in it and couldn't figure out why they died, or;

Expecting a player to have a title in order to run content, that only comes from running the content.

Here, these players expect certain gear, and a certain build, or you're not qualified to be in their party.  They will then complain about the lack of population in that content, despite creating the situation themselves.

Then there's the actual runs, even in the early dungeons, where the lead will know all the shortcuts, and all the proper paths, and will just expect everyone to zerg it like they are.  If they're not, they're going to get an earful in game, and a lot of times, they'll get another earful that they may not even be aware of, right here on the forums, discussing how "bad" they were, because they didn't know x or y.

This isn't coming from someone that doesn't, or hasn't, run endgame content.  This is merely an observation of a little over a decade's worth of experience, watching this happen over and over again.  I was fully capable of running endgame content in DDO, for example, in the "elite corps" of raiders.  I had the builds, and the skill to do it.  I chose, however, to run with my guild, regardless of how skilled, or unskilled they were.  There are definitely players that have no interest in the "git gud" philosophy, but some just need a chance to play, and learn the content, and they don't get it when they're expected to be a pro on their first run.