Oh Gods! "Blade Runner" Kaineng City is real :(

[Ashantara.8731]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Except initially you've said the living quarters were nowhere to be found and you didn't know "where the citizens reside", which was at least partially answered by that single link, after which... you've said you didn't think it counted as amnoon. Well... now you know 😄 

Sure, because everyone in Amnoon is either a noble or a farmer. There are no merchants as well as no clerks, no mayor or any other administrative professions that wouldn't reside on farms or in the noble quarters outside of the city.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I edited my response shortly before yours: "[...] from what I saw on the stream."

Like I posted earlier, there was talk about "lush gardens" in the rich upper districts on the live stream, but when they went there, I couldn't spot anything like that. And the districts shown all looked homogeneous.

On the live stream we could only see the perspective of one streamer, they did not show us everything and we were limited by this one perspective. Why don’t wait until you can see it for yourself before you judge it? What is this mentality to judge before you have all the informations? 

[Ashantara.8731]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

On the live stream we could only see the perspective of one streamer, they did not show us everything and we were limited by this one perspective. Why don’t wait until you can see it for yourself before you judge it? What is this mentality to judge before you have all the informations? 

I judge what I saw, not what I didn't see. And I clearly said so in all previous posts.

[yoni.7015]

1 minute ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I judge what I saw, not what I didn't see. And I clearly said so in all previous posts.

Yeah you already made up your mind by one teaser picture we got … for me that would be not enough information. Even now after the stream I want to wait and see it for myself before I judge. 

[Sobx.1758]

32 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Sure, because everyone in Amnoon is either a noble or a farmer. There are no merchants as well as no clerks, no mayor or any other administrative professions that wouldn't reside on farms or in the noble quarters outside of the city.

Ok, so maybe if you try to make a problem out of something like that, then first you should actually run around the city you're talking about and see for yourself that there's plenty of -closed- doors leading to the smaller buildings scattered around the city. Then there are areas like Cavalier station, amnoon bazaar itself and buildings between bazaar and amnoon farms with villagers scattered around +already mentioned refugee/temporary camps. I'm really not sure what else you need there to believe the city is a city with actual space to live 😉

Edited February 7, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Ashantara.8731]

5 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

Yeah you already made up your mind by one teaser picture we got

No. I admit I was emotional after the initial jade-tech reveal, and it took me a couple of days to get over it. Had I already "made up my mind", I would not have watched any of the many live streams that followed, because that would have been a waste of my time then, no?

I am merely commenting on what I am seeing, as does everyone else on here. That's what this discussion forum is for. 🙂

Edited February 8, 2022 by Ashantara.8731
typos

[Ashantara.8731]

Re: current live stream:

Ahhhh, there are the lush gardens after all! 😄
 

P.S. At the end of the stream, there was a threat of getting to see more tech in the future. Ugh.

I do have to correct myself, though: Cantha isn't "cyberpunk", it looks more like the Star Wars universe (futuristic fantasy) now. Still would prefer less of it in Guild Wars.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[yoni.7015]

37 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Re: current live stream:

Ahhhh, there are the lush gardens after all! 😄
 

P.S. At the end of the stream, there was a threat of getting to see more tech in the future. Ugh.

I do have to correct myself, though: Cantha isn't "cyberpunk", it looks more like the Star Wars universe (futuristic fantasy) now. Still would prefer less of it in Guild Wars.

You can just spend your time in the other areas of the game, they have no jade tech - for Cantha it fits very well. I hope we see more of it in the future. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Ashantara.8731]

14 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

You can just spend your time in the other areas of the game, they have no jade tech - for Cantha it fits very well. I hope we see more of it in the future. 

Sure. But we heard that there will be more technology in the future (an increase of Asuran and Charr tech was mentioned), so that's what I humorously referred to as a "threat" from a design perspective. 😉

[Obfuscate.6430]

On 1/8/2022 at 7:00 AM, witcher.3197 said:

I'll tell you what makes Cantha feel Canthan to me, and then you can tell me why I'm wrong and why the GW2 version of Cantha is faithful to the original and a great way to evolve the region. That fair?

• Atmosphere: dark and gritty. We don't know much about the story but the maps already signal a different vibe with their oversatured colors.
• Music: sombre. GW2 music is once again upbeat.
• Theme: high-fantasy, heavy ancestor worship, traditionalism and a big emphasis on spirits. Instead we are getting sci-fi where ritualism is vilified.
• Setting: multiple interesting, distinct cultures cultures and subcultures. Nope, homogenous culture for GW2, Factions written out of the continent introduced with GW: Factions.
• Color palette: darker colors, stormy, foggy weather being the most dominant. GW2 made it extremely bright and oversatured. Sunshine and rainbows.
• Tropes: avoiding the cliches like reliance on martial arts and jade to sell an Asian setting. Surprise, several teasers featuring kung fu, jade everywhere. Yes, GW1 had a lot of jade too, but interestingly not in the more traditional Asian inspired zones.

You keep saying I just want a 1:1 recreation of GW1 but that's a lie, I only want them to stick to similar themes. I would've loved to see the regions evolve but in satisfying ways.

Can you imagine how cool a Kurzick Divinity's Reach would look like? Or a gothic version of Jaka Itzel up in the canopy? Or a bigger Luxon Cavalon in a melting jade sea, where Cavalon is like Venice where the sructures are carved into solid jade but the streets are flooded and you have to go around on skiffs? These are just some things we could've gotten but Anet said no.

To me GW2 Cantha so far is a wasted opportunity at best and disrespectful to the source at worst. But hey, at least we're getting asura tech but green, that's exciting, right?..

By your own admission here, you want the Guild Wars 2 Cantha to capture the feel of the Cantha from Guild Wars 1.  At the same time you fail to acknowledge that not only has 250 years passed, but the issues that originally troubled the region were vanquished in the Factions campaign.  In the past Cantha was experiencing poverty, war and a horrifying plague.
What is happening in Cantha now?  The plague and Shiro were vanquished, some of the issues with lazy selfish officials were sorted, the region is experiencing some degree of prosperity and technological growth. Better contractors were likely found, so we have better city planning.  All regions of the game have experienced similar growth. 
The bright colors reflect a people coming out of dark times but also adhere to Asian inspired color palettes (google this - lots ofsaturated red/green color families) with the jade being prominent. 

I know you're very passionate but there is so much we still haven't been shown. 

[Ashantara.8731]

3 hours ago, Obfuscate.6430 said:

The bright colors reflect a people coming out of dark times but also adhere to Asian inspired color palettes (google this - lots of saturated red/green color families) with the jade being prominent.

There is a difference between lush, pleasant colors being highly saturated and neon colors being highly saturated - one fits traditional Asian designs, but the other is a pure offense to the eye. 😉

Edited February 17, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[ixora.3569]

I am asian and my family grew up in a very small village literally nothing but jungle no electricity etc this was back in the 80's. I went back to my family home in 2015 and now its a city and they no longer farm. That's what Cantha reminds me of back in gw1 it was small villages and such and x amount of years later its has advanced in technology. 

[ixora.3569]

On 12/22/2021 at 6:17 AM, witcher.3197 said:

No, I still think they are taking it too far even for GW2.

I'm just also trying to point out how changing so much of what GW was for GW2 was a fatal mistake for this franchise. World building is incredibly important for MMOs, and most big MMOs are based on already established and popular game universes.

It's a miracle that GW1 even took off without any brand recognition, and Anet did some really solid world building in just 3 years.

Then GW2 came along and instead of trying to strengthen the identity of the franchise they decided to dumpster the GW1 world and lore. Brilliant decision, truly. Way to shoot themselves in the foot. Instead of building on their previous playerbase, they found so many ways to alienate them it's crazy.

We wouldn't be discussing what's GW and what isn't GW if GW2 didn't insist on redefining it and alienating the veteran playerbase.

Anet made a mistake in 2012, now they are making the same mistake in 2022, except not only are they reimagining what's arguably the most popular part of GW1, what they are doing is pushing it even for GW2. That's my problem. And it doesn't even make narrative sense to top it all off..

 

That's a cool opinion. I do enjoy fans who think they know better I've seen it all before in FF14, WoW, SWTOR the list goes on. Its like when the real "fans" complain about the new starwars and they bash it for not being what they want it to be. But they still watch every new movie that comes out and all the disney plus shows lol. 

[Ashantara.8731]

38 minutes ago, ixora.3569 said:

Its like when the real "fans" complain about the new starwars and they bash it for not being what they want it to be. But they still watch every new movie that comes out and all the disney plus shows lol. 

No, they don't.

The prequels were an embarrasment: a story about a whiney little narcissist growing up to become a megalomaniacal psychopath, spiced up with some boring politics and a love story that made me want to throw up. The sequels... dear God, I couldn't bring myself to watch Episode 9 yet, and I'm not sure I ever will; Episode 7 was a bad copy of Episode IV, Episode 8 was plain bad and in big parts involuntarily comical (no, I am not talking about the childish slapstick intermezzo)... Also, I only watched 5 minutes of one Star Wars animated series once, and the art and story were awful. I have never read any Star Wars comics, either, and have no desire to do so. I also don't own any action figures, because those produced looked nothing like the actors, and the once from the tv animated series were of no interest to me.

You see, being a fan of something (in my case of the original Star Wars trilogy) doesn't mean you can't differentiate between certain aspects of the franchise and regard and judge those aspects and elements separately. That's why people have brains and personal taste. Criticizing the neon colors and/or the jade-tech, for instance, doesn't mean you won't be able to enjoy EoD for all its other elements of content.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[The Boz.2038]

Imagine unironically liking the sequels in the Year Of Our Lord 2022.

. . . 

Still love the new Kaineng, tho. The neon chrome really juices the output, choom.

[Goettel.4389]

I think it looks great and is a fine art direction for the game, but obviously tastes differ.

[Tsakhi.8124]

7 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

No, they don't.

The prequels were an embarrasment: a story about a whiney little narcissist growing up to become a megalomaniacal psychopath, spiced up with some boring politics and a love story that made me want to throw up. The sequels... dear God, I couldn't bring myself to watch Episode 9 yet, and I'm not sure I ever will; Episode 7 was a bad copy of Episode IV, Episode 8 was plain bad and in big parts involuntarily comical (no, I am not talking about the childish slapstick intermezzo)... Also, I only watched 5 minutes of one Star Wars animated series once, and the art and story were awful. I have never read any Star Wars comics, either, and have no desire to do so. I also don't own any action figures, because those produced looked nothing like the actors, and the once from the tv animated series were of no interest to me.

You see, being a fan of something (in my case of the original Star Wars trilogy) doesn't mean you can't differentiate between certain aspects of the franchise and regard and judge those aspects and elements separately. That's why people have brains and personal taste. Criticizing the neon colors and/or the jade-tech, for instance, doesn't mean you won't be able to enjoy EoD for all its other elements of content.

Ugh, yeah. That was a dark time for Star Wars fans. My husband agreed that after watching it, it no longer exists within our timeline. XD Of course, being the nerd that he is, he plans to binge watch all of them. I may or may not be joining him. I can only take so much of Jar Jar Binks and Anakin Skykittenwalker before I want to chew off a random appendage. On topic! I wonder if the neon colors can be toned down with different color settings? I had been curious and re-tweaked the color scheme on my monitor, it was definitely different. 

[Gibson.4036]

I’ve jokingly posted “how to calibrate your monitor” links, but it is true that most people keep their monitors way overstarated. Long ago when I started doing digital art and learned to calibrate my monitors properly I was amazed to discover how bad factory monitor settings actually are.

Calibration is only going to go so far though. What people are reacting to is not solely overall saturation, but the color gamuts.

[witcher.3197]

18 hours ago, Obfuscate.6430 said:

By your own admission here, you want the Guild Wars 2 Cantha to capture the feel of the Cantha from Guild Wars 1.  At the same time you fail to acknowledge that not only has 250 years passed, but the issues that originally troubled the region were vanquished in the Factions campaign.  In the past Cantha was experiencing poverty, war and a horrifying plague.
What is happening in Cantha now?  The plague and Shiro were vanquished, some of the issues with lazy selfish officials were sorted, the region is experiencing some degree of prosperity and technological growth. Better contractors were likely found, so we have better city planning.  All regions of the game have experienced similar growth. 
The bright colors reflect a people coming out of dark times but also adhere to Asian inspired color palettes (google this - lots ofsaturated red/green color families) with the jade being prominent. 

I know you're very passionate but there is so much we still haven't been shown. 

I wanted a sequel and ended up with a reboot by what feels like a different company, one which never bothered to check out the original. I don't think it's unreasonable to be upset about waiting so many years only to get.. whatever EoD is. They've successfully removed literally everything I liked about Cantha.

I really don't understand what Anet was thinking. "Okay we'll give them Cantha! Step 1: identify what made it unique and banish it into the shadow realm". 

"But it's been 250 years!" - wait my bad now that you put it this way I'm suddenly a big fan, EoD is 10/10 thanks for opening my eyes.

Edited February 17, 2022 by witcher.3197

[Ashantara.8731]

3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Calibration is only going to go so far though. What people are reacting to is not solely overall saturation, but the color gamuts.

I, for instance, have worked in the web design and graphics business and know how to properly calibrate my monitor (for those who don't, there are great guides for a variety of brands and models on the web).

Judging by what they have shown of EoD so far, the jade green still looks toxic neon green on my perfectly calibrated monitor, the oversaturated bright green blades of grass still look unnatural and somewhat toxic as well, etc. I have never encountered such unrealistic and unpleasant color choices anywhere else in Tyria, nor in any other computer game I have played in the past two decades (then again, I've never played Candy Crush or any overly colorful anime-design games, so I might not be an expert in that department).

[Obfuscate.6430]

On 2/17/2022 at 5:37 PM, witcher.3197 said:

I wanted a sequel and ended up with a reboot by what feels like a different company, one which never bothered to check out the original. I don't think it's unreasonable to be upset about waiting so many years only to get.. whatever EoD is. They've successfully removed literally everything I liked about Cantha.

I really don't understand what Anet was thinking. "Okay we'll give them Cantha! Step 1: identify what made it unique and banish it into the shadow realm". 

"But it's been 250 years!" - wait my bad now that you put it this way I'm suddenly a big fan, EoD is 10/10 thanks for opening my eyes.

Since the launch of Guild Wars 2 people have come on to the forums to declare that Guild Wars 1 was better because the developers "changed too much". 
Guild Wars 2 is in it's entirely a sequel and it has been crafted by different writers and artists as the years went on. It has never felt like Guild Wars 1. You either appreciated it for what it was or you went to go play something else.

Your "vision" leaves no room for what the game actually is or what has happened in the story. You don't even know what else we will see.
I remember being equally put-off by the Scarlet character and making equally passionate rants - and I lost out on a lot of fun because I was too busy being stuck on what I think should have been.  A couple of years later, I have a lot of regret because the events surrounding that silly character had been really fun and I essentially ruined it for myself. 
Don't let that be you. 

[Ashantara.8731]

8 hours ago, Obfuscate.6430 said:

Guild Wars 2 is in it's entirely a sequel and it has been crafted by different writers and artists as the years went on. It has never felt like Guild Wars 1.

That is entirely correct. I never claimed otherwise - perhaps others did.

The only point I made is that I don't like that much high-tech in the game. That has nothing to do with GW1, because GW2 was never GW1 - I even stopped playing GW2 shortly after launch back in 2012 and came back three years later to get some distance in between the two games.

Also, PoF did not feel like a nostalgia trip, nor will EoD feel like one. Different game, different feel to it. By the way, you can dislike too much high-tech in a fantasy game even without having played its predecessor.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I like the sci-fantasy stuff personally. 

[witcher.3197]

On 2/19/2022 at 1:49 AM, Obfuscate.6430 said:

Your "vision" leaves no room for what the game actually is or what has happened in the story. You don't even know what else we will see.

EoD defenders usually fall back on "go back to GW1", "quit the game", "250 years happened so deal with it" but I don't think I've ever heard your "vision" or any real justification for what they did to Cantha.

To help people like me understand, could you maybe tell us about why these changes were so great? How these add up to a faithful and satisfying sequel?

Let's say you're given full creative control at Anet and get the task of making a sequel to Cantha.

You go on to flood and destroy Kaineng, replace it with asura city but green, remove the Japanese and Chinese influence to zone in on Korean, remove the Luxons, remove the Kurzicks, remove the iconic faction conflict with no mention of any content for PvP, turn the Echovald into just another forest, mine the jade sea to the bottom, change the entire color palette of the region to be so oversaturated it hurts the eye, take the setting from high-fantasy to sci-fi, and so on.

What's your thought process there? Please help me see why these changes are so good they're literally the ONLY thing that could've happened and every other option would be worse.

Edited February 20, 2022 by witcher.3197

[yoni.7015]

12 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

EoD defenders usually fall back on "go back to GW1", "quit the game", "250 years happened so deal with it" but I don't think I've ever heard your "vision" or any real justification for what they did to Cantha.

To help people like me understand, could you maybe tell us about why these changes were so great? How these add up to a faithful and satisfying sequel?

Let's say you're given full creative control at Anet and get the task of making a sequel to Cantha.

You go on to flood and destroy Kaineng, replace it with asura city but green, remove the Japanese and Chinese influence to zone in on Korean, remove the Luxons, remove the Kurzicks, remove the iconic faction conflict with no mention of any content for PvP, turn the Echovald into just another forest, mine the jade sea to the bottom, change the entire color palette of the region to be so oversaturated it hurts the eye, take the setting from high-fantasy to sci-fi, and so on.

What's your thought process there? Please help me see why these changes are so good they're literally the ONLY thing that could've happened and every other option would be worse.

What I have seen in the streams so far, the colors don’t hurt my eyes. 
And yes it has been 250 years. Just look in the real world how cities have changed in 250 years. It would be very unlikely if it looked the same in GW1 and GW2. The sci-fi aspects just fit the Jade Tech narrative.