Oh Gods! "Blade Runner" Kaineng City is real :(

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

23 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Honestly, same. Love cyberpunk settings, never felt that GW2 was one of them. Even with the Asura around, their creations seemed tempered by the fact that so many of them were unreliable and prone to rebelling against their creator. It was a world with magic and some tech, but a smudge of mud on it too that helped the two elements coexist.

Now we're gearing up to have sleek Jade Tech microwaves, smart phones, hoverbikes, and mech dragons zipping around, plus an isolated Human nation somehow producing Asuran architecture and making leaps in technology that core Tyria hasn't managed even with all the time and resources available to them (including a benevolent elder dragon). I don't know that it's worth leaving the game over something like this, but to me the vibe is very different from the game I bought when I first started playing. People can love or hate that as they please, but to me the difference is very clear.

I'd still like to wait for the expansion to come out so I can give it an honest assessment, but I'd prefer if GW2 didn't launch futuristic. It's alright to dislike (or like) this shift in direction; you are definitely not the only one.

Central Tyria has been fighting one war after another for the last 300 years. At no point was there peace for any of the races, with even the Sylvari being besieged by the Asura later on, then Ngihtmare Court and finally Modremoth.

 

If players are surprised an isolated nation with no threats managed to advance far past what Central Tyria did while having entire settlements destroyed on a frequent basis, including their de facto Capital City no less than three times. you need to step back and take a look at real-world advancement, and how far we've come in 100 years let alone the 200+ that the Canthans have had to develop.

 

In fact, the whole narrative with the IceBrood Saga was that the way Charr and Norn societies are structured was holding them back, and that they would be capable of much more otherwise.

 

EDIT: It also hinted at this problem with the Asura too.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Gibson.4036]

It makes for a nice story to think that peace brings great advancement and conflict sets back technology, but is that historically accurate?

Sometimes great advancement has come because of conflict, and civilian applications for that tech comes later.

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

11 hours ago, lokh.2695 said:

Totally fine with this. Magitech has always been a part of GW2 and it's visual design. Wouldn't it be very disapointing if 250 years had passed and everything looked like GW1? I know, it's nostalgia and how dare things change, yadayada make GW2 GW1 again, I know. But not everyone wants GW2 to be GW1 and GW1 is still live for you to enjoy.

As a Guild Wars 1 player myself, so much this.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the direction they're going in with Cantha. Cantha was bound to change in 250+ years. And with Magick, comes even more possibilities. To assume that Cantha would not change much just because they were isolated strikes me as rather foolish. With new discoveries, inevitably comes study, experimentation, and new innovations.

I would have been more disappointed, if Cantha remained largely the same as in GW1.

Once again, it seems to me like people are just overreacting, which is nothing new when it comes to these forums. The sky is always falling around here, I swear. 😒

Edited December 18, 2021 by Keitaro Dragonheart.9047

[Crikk.3854]

6 hours ago, Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:

It's also extremely jarring that different areas of society are seemingly on completely different levels of development simultaneously. We're still using greatswords and giant hammers like the high middle ages but why are we doing that when we could be flying around in spaceships with laser cannons? You want to talk about civilisations not advancing being bad writing but in actuality, what totally breaks the world and its lore is the introduction of rapid advancement.

Really?

Have you not studied one iota of human history?  I'm sure when European colonizers landed in North and South America the initial reaction of the inhabitants was "They've got guns and we're still using spears and stone axes... That's totally unbelievable!"

Also... Are you actually playing GW2?  Before any expansion, we took down Zhaitan from an airship with giant laser cannons!  Yeah, airship, not spaceship, but still...  (And yes, I fully acknowledge that that particular fight has its share of controversy.)

I get that this isn't a direction that some people want to go in - and that's fine.  But for every person who complains, there's an equal number who can't wait to play and are very excited to see it.

As long as they give a reasonable explanation via lore, I'm personally okay with it.  If you're not, well.. Lots of other games out there.

[hgkmaxymus.9321]

To me, it's a part of the world, with their own culture /advancements. Some people disliked PoF since it was all sand all over/desert. Hot was disliked cause it was a big jungle and that's it. 

 

Every part of the world is a certain way. Norn culture by the snowy places (along kodans), as an example.

 

It doesn't mean the WHOLE WORLD will be that way and you will be forced to play the new map regions every single day after the release. This game let you choose which content you wanna do. 

 

If you don't like that art style and care for the achievements /unlocks, then pursue them and never go back (maybe next living world you might need to step at the main city to start the story? xD), you can do that.

 

I don't like nor dislike cyberpunk style, gonna wait until the release to have a proper opinion. The only thing I kinda agree (with some opinions) is... how green everything is on this expansion xD I'm hoping there's more to the expansion than that. 

[AgentMoore.9453]

4 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

"Central Tyria has been fighting one war after another for the last 300 years." "you need to step back and take a look at real-world advancement"

Okay, let's do that. Massive leaps in technology get made specifically for the purposes of war - violence doesn't mean progress suddenly stops. As for destroyed settlements, I sincerely doubt the helpless villagers getting frozen in Lake Doric are the same people making the war machines and Watchknights. If anything, I would say that constant conflict would create a sense of innovative urgency, especially on part of the Asura who have been struggling to destroy Primordus for the entirety of the franchise.

When you have multiple races in Central Tyria coming together in a unified front of combined knowledge and technology against a threat as big as the elder dragons (The Pact), it would then seem weird if a single race not known for its tech abruptly outclassed them in an expansion.

4 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

If players are surprised an isolated nation with no threats managed to advance

Not sure if this is true given that we know about modern faction conflicts, political strife, and aggressive wildlife in the area, but apart from that I was talking about the direction in which they advanced and how strikingly similar to magitech everything looks despite their supposed isolation. It find it weird and the vibe feels different from the GW2 I bought. No amount of explaining is going to adjust my reaction to something like this. It's like trying to explain to someone why they should like pineapples when they prefer grapes.

Again, it's fine if you're happy about this change in direction, but it's still a change I'm not thrilled with. You're free to disagree with me.

[Ashantara.8731]

23 minutes ago, hgkmaxymus.9321 said:

This game let you choose which content you wanna do.

I've done all previous content 100% on all of my characters, so there is no previous content left for me to do.

That's why I am looking forward to new content. And if that new content threatens to go against its own initial design philosophy, namely an early modern era setting with a bit of steam tech and magi-tech mixed into it, and against the general design philosophy of what makes a fantasy-setting RPG a fantasy-setting RPG, then of course I'm feeling upset about it.

The game used to have a well-balanced mix of the aforementioned elements, but at some point, it crossed the line, and now it's just getting weirder.

[Kossage.9072]

It'll be interesting to learn more about the lore of Cantha's rapid development considering what we know of IRL technological development (often caused by financial competition between nations or warfare use such as how ARPANET that would become Internet's foundation was developed for the US Department of Defence) and Tyrian history.

There are quite a few reasons for Central Tyria's rapid development compared to Elona (even if Elona had never fallen to Joko):

1) Tyria had the benefit of forcing multiple intelligent races to mingle and share knowledge, having sensible enough leaders of various nations and tribes who eventually overcame their differences, and the mutual threat of the Elder Dragons that would gradually lead to considerations of alliances despite some naysayers in each race's political spheres. For example, if it weren't for the far-reaching Ebonhawke Treaty that Almorra Soulkeeper, Queen Jennah, Malice Swordshadow, Smodur the Unflinching, Mia Kindleshot, Logan Thackeray, and Wade Samuelsson each helped make happen, humans and charr would never have collaborated and thus wouldn't have contributed crucial know-how to the multiracial Pact to bring the airships to life. Similarly, the threat of Primordus forced the exiled asura to begin developing their magitech at an increased pace in order to find a way to solve their greatest conundrum yet, leading to yet another industrial revolution. The eventual alliances of the three orders and the knowledge of Priory and Order of Whispers opened whole new avenues of science to pursue, leading to Pact's many breakthroughs in the year of the Zhaitan campaign.

2) Tyria had access to some of the surviving records of the elder races via the Priory's efforts, allowing them to gradually decipher some of the mysteries of the dwarves (whose inventions led to charr experimenting on gunpowder and ushering in a technological revolution), Forgotten, jotun, mursaat, and Seers. These discoveries helped pave way for some of the groundbreaking stuff we've seen in the story since. Taimi may be standing on the shoulders of asuran giants like Zinn when it comes to utilizing knowledge, but Zinn only had his knowledge thanks to a partnership with the Exalted who in turn had been taught by the Forgotten...who in turn had been collaborating with the gods and Glint.

Meanwhile, Cantha wasn't afforded similar luxuries due to not only its forced isolation from the rest of the world (thanks, Zhaitan and potentially deep sea dragon!) but because of the Ministry of Purity's campaign to exterminate or subjugate any unwanted beings in Cantha (ranging from human criminals to other ethnicities like Kurzicks and Luxons to entire non-human civilizations like the tengu). While there's a suggestion in the An Empire Divided document that some Forgotten ruins or artifacts might still exist in Cantha, the humans would still lack the wealth of knowledge from other elder races as well as from nonhuman races (it seems that the empire's currently friendly status with the tengu is relatively recent-ish development similar to the charr/human truce although it's not called a truce or treaty here but the Amnesty of Shing Jea which speaks of whole other power politics at play) unless we learn that Canthans also made peace with the dredge of Echovald (if any survive after the dredge's war against the Kurzicks) and potentially separated asuran refugees fleeing to the surface from the asura gates underneath Kaineng City (as suggested in the potentially canonical alternate Canthan path to the Far Shiverpeaks' Boreal Station in GW1).

As for the timeline of events, we can make a few educated guesses. Before the Zephyrite visit to Cantha around 1326 AE after Zhaitan's defeat, the latest known outsider to have visited Cantha and returned alive was Cobiah Marriner on the eve of Zhaitan's awakening and the Rising of Orr (including the Great Tsunami that flooded Old Lion's Arch and much of the Maguuman and Krytan coastline, as well as destroyed Atholma and turned Dajkah into an archipelago) in 1219 AE as depicted in the Sea of Sorrows novel. Back then Cobiah did not mention any curious jade tech in Old Kaineng.

It seems plausible that jade tech truly began flourishing after Zhaitan's rise and the Risen Dead Ship blockade that prevented any Central Tyrian and Elonian ships from reaching Cantha and vice versa since then (save for some rare survivors of shipwrecks at least on Tyrian side--no intel on any Canthan castaways in Elona, or any Central Tyrian or Elonian shipwrecks on Canthan shores yet). Perhaps the Great Tsunami and the earthquakes on the sea floor affected northern Cantha too (based on tengu stories of why some tengu fled from Cantha and why tribes from other parts of the world also migrated to their new "promised land") and damaged Old Kaineng, forcing the government to build New Kaineng on safer ground as a result. If so, this would've been the biggest ecological disaster Cantha faced since the Jade Wind and would force Canthan minds to figure out a way to prevent any such catastrophes in the future as they realized they were seemingly cut off from the rest of the world. There are some suggestions in the Priory's world map that Kaineng had naval trade route to other continents' port cities such as Kamadan and Lion's Arch via the Battle Isles that sunk around the time of the Great Tsunami; interestingly that map also depicted trade routes leading west to port cities in so-called Sunken Islands and Sunrise Crest (potentially Doern Velazquez's possibly Hispanic and oddly secretive homeland and thus the so far unknown human nation on the planet Thyria?), but supposedly the Dead Ship navy and/or the deep sea dragon (or other unrelated threats) might've prevented Cantha from contacting their western trade partners either, thus leaving them truly alone.

Given how the current year will be circa 1334-35 AE by the time we visit Cantha and how Joon mentions a century's worth of progress in the EoD story trailer, the empire would've only had roughly a century (from 1219 AE to circa 1335 AE) to speed up their jade tech to the current level and without the benefit of ancient nonhuman texts and nonhuman allies that Central Tyrians had. While the Canthans had the benefit of basically sitting on top of jade which seems to have been charged with enough magic to become a sixth bloodstone of sorts (then again, who knows if one of the two still missing bloodstones could've landed in Cantha or washed ashore after the volcanic eruption on Ring of Fire, which separated the five bloodstones, to boost up magic research if the scientists began experimenting on the stone like White Mantle did with the Maguuma Bloodstone?) and possibly gained the ancient knowledge of saltspray dragons such as Albax and Kuunavang (if they cared to get more involved in human politics after witnessing Usoku and the MoP persecuting the Luxons who had made a pact with the saltsprays and the "dragon king" long ago), they'd still be at a disadvantage compared to Central Tyrian masterminds.

From what we've seen, the emergence of the tech-savvy neo-Jade Brotherhood as an antagonistic force is a relatively recent development after the fallout between Joon and Chul-Moo (neo-JB's founder) in the wake of Xunlai Jade corporate shenanigans, and the tech-advanced Aetherblades only became a nuisance sometime after Mai Trin's escape to the Mists in the aftermath of Season 1 in 1326 AE, so Canthans only had to deal with the traditionalist warden Tetra's Speakers (who despise jade tech and want nothing to do with that kind of progress), and the raids of the somewhat "primitive" naga/kappa alliance and potential krait involvement based on some of the trailers; not exactly great enough technologically advanced threats compared to the past to inspire military minds of this forcibly isolated empire to develop more and more advanced weaponry to take them down. Then again, we may yet be in for a surprise depending on how resourceful these armies have been, if the deep sea dragon's minions have actually been far more invasive than shown so far and we're witnessing a Zhaitan type of lull before the next invasion (even though Shing Jea only seemed to care about the Aetherblade and naga threats based on the NPC dialogue on stream, so the deep sea dragon's influence doesn't seem to affect Seitung to the same effect as the Branded or Adelbern's Foefire army do to Ascalon for some reason), or if there are yet more nefarious and far more dangerous forces at work such as the oni and demon hordes or other great threats.

I look forward to finding out what "outside" help (saltsprays, asura, dredge, tengu etc. if any) Canthans received with their jade tech as they've basically been underdogs due to lacking the resources, alliances with other well-developed nations/races, discovered ancient knowledge, and military necessities that Tyrians had when developing their tech. Given how the developers teased that we'd get lots of lore about the turmoil Cantha's been through between Winds of Change and End of Dragons in the expansion zones, I imagine we'll get some fascinating answers to this mystery that helps expand worldbuilding and make jade tech and New Kaineng City become a natural progression of Cantha's development despite the setbacks (and sometimes lack of such) that the nation experienced. 🙂

Edited December 19, 2021 by Kossage.9072

[Scavarius.6059]

On 12/17/2021 at 7:31 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

GW2 is not a science-fiction game.

lets see ...

miniature mass transporter(waypoints)

gates that link 2 places together like a door, even across dimensions

flying ships of various sizes

droids and automatons

giant tanks

at least 3 goblincitys that have more holograms and hardlight than any startrek ship ...

 

there is probably way more, but am too lazy atm :V

also, anet is probably gonna call it jadepunk 

[Dawdler.8521]

5 hours ago, Scavarius.6059 said:

lets see ...

miniature mass transporter(waypoints)

gates that link 2 places together like a door, even across dimensions

flying ships of various sizes

droids and automatons

giant tanks

at least 3 goblincitys that have more holograms and hardlight than any startrek ship ...

 

there is probably way more, but am too lazy atm :V

also, anet is probably gonna call it jadepunk 

Well it is technically correct. 

Because there's very little science behind anything i Tyria. Even Asuran "science" is just long complicated words that can be summed up into one word - magic. Its just fantasy.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Well it is technically correct. 

Because there's very little science behind anything i Tyria. Even Asuran "science" is just long complicated words that can be summed up into one word - magic. Its just fantasy.

From my understanding "science fiction" has long lost its meaning with being actually based on science (if it was even ever a strict rule to classify something as science-fiction). And it's probably because it's hard to draw a definitive line between things like -for example- "what if we advanced technologically and understood reality so well that we were able to invent a time machine?" (which is a pretty typical concept in sci-fi) and "what if we discovered an element/compound/substance that would provide more energy than we need for anything we want to build?" (kind of like what we're commenting on here). Both are fictional, both are just hopes for something we might be able to do/find out in the future and both right now are basically magic.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

From my understanding "science fiction" has long lost its meaning with being actually based on science (if it was even ever a strict rule to classify something as science-fiction). And it's probably because it's hard to draw a definitive line between things like -for example- "what if we advanced technologically and understood reality so well that we were able to invent a time machine?" (which is a pretty typical concept in sci-fi) and "what if we discovered an element/compound/substance that would provide more energy than we need for anything we want to build?" (kind of like what we're commenting on here). Both are fictional, both are just hopes for something we might be able to do/find out in the future and both right now are basically magic.

Well both of that can be scifi. Its just about how they try to ground it in science. But granted, modern "scifi" like Star Trek STD, a show about constantly crying children pretending to be military officers flying a spaceship made of plot armor and powered by magic mushrooms, has muddied the waters a bit. 

[zealex.9410]

On 12/17/2021 at 8:17 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

I don't think most players who have been playing GW2 since launch started this game so they would be playing in a cyberpunk universe.

I hate this direction. I feel 100% alienated by it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

If this is the future of GW2, I suppose it is time to start looking for another MMO. 😢

I mean, the tech aspects of the gw2 universe were quite advertised even back in launch marketing. Elona was very down to earth and basic so the contrast is there, plus is just one of the maps so far, nothing says so far that it will all be cyber wars 2 from here on out.

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, zealex.9410 said:

I mean, the tech aspects of the gw2 universe were quite advertised even back in launch marketing.

Yes, and to a certain extent is was okay. That extent has been overstepped by a long shot with cyberscales, comm devices, computer terminals everywhere, electric billboards, and jade-technology. (And yes, one of the reasons I loved PoF so much was that I didn't have to deal with any of that stuff for most part, which was a relief.)
 

When a Cantha expansion was announced, I was super excited. I couldn't wait to return to those Eastern Asian themed lands full of legends, mysteries and magic. I was looking forward to likewise themed elite specs such as Assassins, Master Swordsmen, staff-wielding (and fist-fighting) Monks, spirit-whispering Ritualists, and flying, fireball-shooting Elementalists - instead, we are getting these (please excuse the harsh term) abominations. I also couldn't care less about two rivalling gangs fighting over some high-tech that powers their homeland (even if it involves a dragon).

It's fine, though, I am at peace with it now. I have spend these past two days snooping through upcoming MMORPG attractions and have found one that I know will suit my ideas of a classic (and classy) fantasy world. So my "MMORPG-fired" dopamine levels  will no longer depend on a game that obviously isn't for me anymore (and perhaps never was). I can relax now and see what's coming to GW2 and take it for what it is. Further complaints are pointless, because decisions were already made and my opinion has zero influence on them.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Hope there's a great forum you can join, and make your home, as well.

Good luck!

[Ashantara.8731]

44 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Hope there's a great forum you can join, and make your home, as well.

Good luck!

Thanks, but no need to say goodbye as I didn't say I was quitting - how can "I can relax now and see what's coming to GW2 and take it for what it is" be interpreted as "Grrr, argh, I am rage-quitting"? 😉 Oh well, perhaps wishful thinking on your end. 😋

If you think I won't play what I paid for (namely EoD) you are mistaken, plus nowhere did I say anything along the lines. I will just stop hoping for GW2 to ever become what I thought it was when I bought it in 2012, namely a better, enhanced version of its predecessor - in other words: a true successor.

(P.S. Yes, I will certainly spend a lot less time in it after EoD. But that's okay with me.)

Edited December 19, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[GRRRR.3521]

Not terribly original but what is nowadays. Looks cool anyway

I hope they go all out with this and Canthan tech is more advanced than Asuran, thatd be funny

Edited December 19, 2021 by GRRRR.3521

[Leo.3428]

If we fight smart replicants and get Roy Batty 's "I've seen things" dialog in the final boss fight, I'm all for jade punk.

Otherwise, I'll put down those glowing gundams with my daggers. I hear they have sensitive toes just like the dragons.

[Artemis.8034]

On 12/17/2021 at 12:25 PM, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Never know how concept art will match up with the game.

IDK but i do see a big screen broadcasting from a building , that may be a little too much advanced. So we have LED tvs in GW2 now?

[Randulf.7614]

3 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

IDK but i do see a big screen broadcasting from a building , that may be a little too much advanced. So we have LED tvs in GW2 now?

Can it really be more advanced than the holodeck from season 3? Or a wireless, long range comm system? Or all the computer screens in the Inquest Base on Sandswept? Or displaying a holographic replica of Shatterer above Hoelbrak during the festival? 
 

It sounds far fetched isolated on its own sure, but compared to the tech Tyria already has, a holographic billboard isn’t really out of place.

[Artemis.8034]

1 minute ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Can it really be more advanced than the holodeck from season 3? Or a wireless, long range comm system? Or all the computer screens in the Inquest Base on Sandswept? Or displaying a holographic replica of Shatterer above Hoelbrak during the festival? 
 

It sounds far fetched isolated on its own sure, but compared to the tech Tyria already has, a holographic billboard isn’t really out of place.

I have only seen the op pic, where are you seeing these photos? I dont see any posted by anet in the forums.

[Randulf.7614]

1 minute ago, Artemis.8034 said:

I have only seen the op pic, where are you seeing these photos? I dont see any posted by anet in the forums.

What photos? The examples I mention are historical ones and are in game.

[Artemis.8034]

Just now, Randulf.7614 said:

What photos? The examples I mention are historical ones and are in game.

I mean where is the op getting that pic of the new city.

[Randulf.7614]

5 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

I mean where is the op getting that pic of the new city.

Ohh. The twitter post was embedded on the forums and almost certainly on the GW2 homepage

 

edit - see the bottom of the “See you in 2022” news post on the GW2 website

Edited December 19, 2021 by Randulf.7614

[Artemis.8034]

Just now, Randulf.7614 said:

Ohh. It’s on twitter and almost certainly on the GW2 homepage

Ok i dont use twitter and didnt see it on the main page