Bad time at Dragons' Stand

[Von Dobbs.9072]

Hello, I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for the past four years, usually solo.

 

I acquired a commander's tag a few weeks ago, mainly to attract other players to me when I find an event in the morning while doing my dailies.

 

Yesterday evening I wanted to do Dragon's Stand. We were few players and there was only one commander.

 

As I could see that no one else was putting a tag, I tagged up, to help, and I started in the south lane.

 

Everything went well up to the Tower.

 

There, things got complicated and I ended up seeing insults on the map chat, towards me, harsh and hurtful insults. I logged out.

 

I know Dragon's Stand very well, however. I've done the meta hundreds of times, on all lanes.

 

But it turns out that I am autistic (Asperger's syndrome) and that finding myself as a commander puts me in a state of deep embarrassment, confuses me.

 

People without autism probably cannot understand this.

 

Leading other players is something that is difficult and totally foreign to me.

 

I absolutely do not have the mental of a "commander".

 

In addition, I am French, and I speak poor English, which means that I refrain from giving instructions in map chat.

 

Nothing serious, of course. But despite everything these insults hurt me.

 

Maybe it bears repeating: don't forget that there is a real human being behind the toon, an individual with their frailties and vulnerability, who is just trying to participate in the game like you.

[AgentMoore.9453]

I'm sorry you had this experience.

Dragon's Stand is a map built around doing a meta event that requires the cooperation of multiple groups working in tandem, so having commanders is almost a must if you want to be in an instance that has a mapwide success. While this can create some fun and engaging gameplay, it undoubtedly also has the effect of drawing out aggression in players who lose their mind if everyone doesn't know how to do every event or respond to every mechanic quickly enough to meet their standards. This can sometimes translate to trash talk between commander tags in Dragon's Stand, even if the map is doing well.

There isn't really a fix for this kind of behavior except to block or ignore those who choose to insult instead of instruct. As for your issues with commanding, just know that there's no pressure for you to put up a tag if you'd prefer not to. Dragon's Stand gets run often enough that there is usually a group (or several groups) with commander tags running already, so you can avoid an empty map by simply joining one of them.

I hope your next experience in DS is a lot better than this one, because the Mouth of Mordremoth fight is (imo) the most immersive, satisfying fight in the entire game.

[Von Dobbs.9072]

10 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I'm sorry you had this experience.

Dragon's Stand is a map built around doing a meta event that requires the cooperation of multiple groups working in tandem, so having commanders is almost a must if you want to be in an instance that has a mapwide success. While this can create some fun and engaging gameplay, it undoubtedly also has the effect of drawing out aggression in players who lose their mind if everyone doesn't know how to do every event or respond to every mechanic quickly enough to meet their standards. This can sometimes translate to trash talk between commander tags in Dragon's Stand, even if the map is doing well.

There isn't really a fix for this kind of behavior except to block or ignore those who choose to insult instead of instruct. As for your issues with commanding, just know that there's no pressure for you to put up a tag if you'd prefer not to. Dragon's Stand gets run often enough that there is usually a group (or several groups) with commander tags running already, so you can avoid an empty map by simply joining one of them.

I hope your next experience in DS is a lot better than this one, because the Mouth of Mordremoth fight is (imo) the most immersive, satisfying fight in the entire game.

You're right, Dragon's Stand is my favorite meta, the atmosphere is intense and epic.

 

In fact, I forced myself a bit by tagging up. I try to go beyond my limits but often I am quickly brought back to reality and my difficulties.

 

I will refrain from doing so from now on and will content myself with following a commander.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Quote

Nothing serious, of course. But despite everything these insults hurt me.

but why

i recomend work on perceive your personal value

once you make up your own opinion about yourself you will not care much about opinion of others as whos knows you better then you yourself (feedbacks are still ok tho, but you are deciding that)

trening will also help if your shy person

You need give yourself question, did you want other ppl to hear you out

if answer is yes, then go on, make your opinion, once you give it one or twice, more times will make you more experienced and you will need less curage to do that 😉

 

Commander is not leading ppl, his giving his opinion how to solve problem, and other ppl taking that sugestion 

I was commanding with mentor tag few times, and ppl not folowed commander that randomly taged up but me insted, as my sugestions on map chat was better, and even if ppl debout me on start, once thay notice i'm profesional thay stick to me

Notice that some ppl can test you by asking some stupid questions, but it's becose thay want put thay trust on you, and thay checking your mentality (by thay instinct)

Edited December 21, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Balsa.3951]

1 hour ago, Von Dobbs.9072 said:

Hello, I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for the past four years, usually solo.

 

I acquired a commander's tag a few weeks ago, mainly to attract other players to me when I find an event in the morning while doing my dailies.

 

Yesterday evening I wanted to do Dragon's Stand. We were few players and there was only one commander.

 

As I could see that no one else was putting a tag, I tagged up, to help, and I started in the south lane.

 

Everything went well up to the Tower.

 

There, things got complicated and I ended up seeing insults on the map chat, towards me, harsh and hurtful insults. I logged out.

 

I know Dragon's Stand very well, however. I've done the meta hundreds of times, on all lanes.

 

But it turns out that I am autistic (Asperger's syndrome) and that finding myself as a commander puts me in a state of deep embarrassment, confuses me.

 

People without autism probably cannot understand this.

 

Leading other players is something that is difficult and totally foreign to me.

 

I absolutely do not have the mental of a "commander".

 

In addition, I am French, and I speak poor English, which means that I refrain from giving instructions in map chat.

 

Nothing serious, of course. But despite everything these insults hurt me.

 

Maybe it bears repeating: don't forget that there is a real human being behind the toon, an individual with their frailties and vulnerability, who is just trying to participate in the game like you.

U need to divide urself from ur game character, all those words going to ur charr not to u. U are invisible and invincible at home.

[Danikat.8537]

I'm sorry that happened to you. I know (because I've seen this happen before) that they will have made it personal, but it's not really about you. They were frustrated with the situation and while feeling overly emotional (and hopefully still taking the time to participate instead of stopping to rant) they weren't able to think objectively and express their frustrations accurately, instead they resorted to lashing out at any easy target - in this case the person with a target marker over their head.

If/when you find yourself in a situation like that again one option is to offer to provide the commander tag but say at the start you will need help to run the event because English is not your first language and you can't type instructions quickly. There's no reason it has to be the person with a tag who gives instructions.

I actually do that every time I use my commander tag in Dragon's Stand because I can never remember where all the side events are and there's always someone who is better than me at things like picking out people to fight the boss at the blighting tree. So either 1 person or a few people give instructions and I focus on making sure the tag is where it needs to be and updating the other lanes on our progress.

[Von Dobbs.9072]

26 minutes ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

but why

i recomend work on perceive your personal value

once you make up your own opinion about yourself you will not care much about opinion of others as whos knows you better then you yourself (feedbacks are still ok tho, but you are deciding that)

trening will also help if your shy person

You need give yourself question, did you want other ppl to hear you out

if answer is yes, then go on, make your opinion, once you give it one or twice, more times will make you more experienced and you will need less curage to do that 😉

 

Commander is not leading ppl, his giving his opinion how to solve problem, and other ppl taking that sugestion 

I was commanding with mentor tag few times, and ppl not folowed commander that randomly taged up but me insted, as my sugestions on map chat was better, and even if ppl debout me on start, once thay notice i'm profesional thay stick to me

Notice that some ppl can test you by asking some stupid questions, but it's becose thay want put thay trust on you, and thay checking your mentality (by thay instinct)

I don't have a high perception of my value, especially in the game. I play a lot but am not a "good" player.

I am not able to do high end content, not least because I have speech difficulties which keep me away from Discord.

So, no, my estimate of my worth in the game is not high and I can hardly fight against that.

[Von Dobbs.9072]

23 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

U need to divide urself from ur game character, all those words going to ur charr not to u. U are invisible and invincible at home.

You are right, but it is not that easy!

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Von Dobbs.9072 said:

I don't have a high perception of my value, especially in the game. I play a lot but am not a "good" player.

I am not able to do high end content, not least because I have speech difficulties which keep me away from Discord.

So, no, my estimate of my worth in the game is not high and I can hardly fight against that.

Alot of groups dont demand you speak on discord tho just that you listen to instructions.

[Cuks.8241]

Dragon Stand is my favorite meta to command just because it actually needs commander on the tower phase. Don't feel bad because you met some kittens, that's life, right click ignore. But on the other hand as a commander don't be afraid to actually issue some commands. There are always new people that don't know what to do and that phase can actually fail. You don't need to know much English for simple commands.

You will get people that are smart kitten and can ridicule you for giving orders for such a simple thing as a meta. Well better to give redundant orders than to fail. Again right click ignore and forget.

You probably know all of this based on your post but maybe some tips will still be helpful. 

Take a minute before the start of tower phase and ask up to max 10 people to pull themselves into group 2 and those should go to the middle. Only those, tell them.

To the rest tell that they should stay on tag all the time and only focus preservers and towers. Ignore everything else and move fast. Slowpokes will be left for dead.

If people will lag behind or often also run ahead if you are fast enough, remind them stay on tag, stay on tag... You can see preserver spawns on the mini map but many people are oblivious to that and just tunnel vision and run past. Using a ground marker help.  Mark preserver as it spawns so people can focus it in the middle of all the mobs.

Lastly it helps if you have a build that can move fast so you can stay on point and drive people that want to run off. Focus on CCing the preserver and just helping people around you to survive and move faster. And well obviously you should be able to survive in any situation in there.

[Von Dobbs.9072]

17 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Dragon Stand is my favorite meta to command just because it actually needs commander on the tower phase. Don't feel bad because you met some kittens, that's life, right click ignore. But on the other hand as a commander don't be afraid to actually issue some commands. There are always new people that don't know what to do and that phase can actually fail. You don't need to know much English for simple commands.

You will get people that are smart kitten and can ridicule you for giving orders for such a simple thing as a meta. Well better to give redundant orders than to fail. Again right click ignore and forget.

You probably know all of this based on your post but maybe some tips will still be helpful. 

Take a minute before the start of tower phase and ask up to max 10 people to pull themselves into group 2 and those should go to the middle. Only those, tell them.

To the rest tell that they should stay on tag all the time and only focus preservers and towers. Ignore everything else and move fast. Slowpokes will be left for dead.

If people will lag behind or often also run ahead if you are fast enough, remind them stay on tag, stay on tag... You can see preserver spawns on the mini map but many people are oblivious to that and just tunnel vision and run past. Using a ground marker help.  Mark preserver as it spawns so people can focus it in the middle of all the mobs.

Lastly it helps if you have a build that can move fast so you can stay on point and drive people that want to run off. Focus on CCing the preserver and just helping people around you to survive and move faster. And well obviously you should be able to survive in any situation in there.

Thank you for these details, I will write them down in case I decide to repeat the experience. Yes I have a fast build, this is the flamethrower engineer build from Woodenpotatoes, which has a lot of speed, great for Dragon's Stand.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Von Dobbs.9072

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I didnt buy a commander tag because I dont really see a point in me doing that.

Personnally I think someone who's tagging has a responsability of knowing how the map/meta event works and I cant really be bothered to learn that by heart. I just know what I have to do and that's it. So if you're tagging and know what to do during the dragon stand meta, you should be at least proud of that because I know I (and maybe some other) wouldnt want to do that job. That being said I've seen some people tag just for the sake of having a tag and say in chat they dont know all the mechanic and sometime it goes well, sometime someone else who knows better takes that role so it's not the end of the world

 

Sometime stuff happens and it can fail, it's annoying but eh that's the same IRL. Sometime even if you lead perfectly there will always be that one player/group of player who doesnt read the map chat / just want to troll and throw on purpose, nothing much you can do there. That is a bad experience sure but you should ignore these guys and block them. There will always be these people in video game in the internet, nothing you can do about it except ignore them and move on.

[Goettel.4389]

I'd follow ya buddy

[Fuchslein.8639]

As someone who doesn't have autism, but drives similarly in terms of self-respect and everything.
I know myself that when you read something like that from others, you often just think, they don't understand me. But believe me, just that you turn on the commie and try to drive maps forward makes you many times more useful than most others. Because without commie runs often nothing.

And try to see it that way. people who prefer to complain instead of helping and just play the game, have very different problems ^^.

I can only speak of myself, I have no commie because the price is a shame for me. But I have already started many meta-events with my Mentor-tag and have already read the "funniest" things. Once even, because I have not noticed soon enough that someone has turned on his commie. And although I was the first there (also DS) and at the time was only one commie and west has only filled when I have turned on my mentor the commie thought to have to insult me because mentor tags are inferior (his words).
Such people you have to block, ignore and move on. As difficult as that often is.

There will always be people like that. But there are many more grateful (like me) who write nothing and just play the game and are happy that maps get filled by commanders like you ^^.

[mtpelion.4562]

I know it can sometimes be hard to remember this in the heat of the moment, but insults from random, faceless nobodies on the internet are meaningless. Their opinions are based on a combination of ignorance and rage and have no merit whatsoever. 

Once you remember this, their insults carry no sting. Who cares for the thoughts of angry flies? 

[Omega.6801]

So you tag'd up for an event you knew, so you had to know what the comms on this event are doing. You knew that you're not fit for what is expected, as you say for yourself. But you tag up nonetheless. I don't get what your post is trying to say. Sure, people should not insult others and a bit of gratitude for the comms who put themselves out there to make things happen would be very nice. But 1) that's just not how people work as thousands of years of recorded history tell us and 2) don't tag up if you can't bring what is expected or can't handle backlash. By taging up, you put yourself out there. You make yourself a target for both, the praise when something goes well but also the critizism if things go south.

(I can sympathize with this, having my own yet different problems that keep me from taging up even for events I must've done hundreds of times by now. I won't tag up if I know I'm not in the mood for the sort of """constructive critizism""" mapchat provides if things go off the perfectly optimized path or if I don't know what needs to be done.)

[Xanadrine.4352]

You dont have to have an issue to be uncomfortable at commander. There is no way I could com I dont have it in me I would be a total failure at it. People will rail on coms when something dont go right, even if its not the coms fault.

[Ashen.2907]

Sorry about your experience. People should not be verbally abusive to others. This seems particularly the case when they are not willing to tag up themselves.

If you are not capable of commanding in a situation such as this, it might be a good idea to avoid doing so. People see the tag and assume that means that there is a leader. It isn't your fault that you cannot give them what they need but it is not fair to them, or you, for you to tell them that you can.

That said, sometimes you do not realize the difference between your knowledge of something and an ability to lead others in doing that thing until you try. I applaud your willingness to try to grow as a player and your intention to help everyone on the map succeed with the meta. You should be proud of that.

 

Your English is more than just fine.

[AliamRationem.5172]

This game has a good community, but there's definitely a large number of players who wait around for somebody else to take the initiative, but then want to criticize.  To those people: Don't like it?  Shut up and do it yourself next time.

[Gibson.4036]

I just want to say it's awesome that you had the courage to try it.

I've seen people abuse commanders as well, and I know enough about leadership to know that no matter how well you know your stuff, leading it is a whole different ball game, and it takes trying to lead to learn to lead.

It's too bad people get abusive.

I admire you.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Kitten, some people just take open world too seriously. Heck, you see people freaking out in Dragonfall when there's no chance of failure.

 

It'd be nice if these people would help, but considering they are incapable or unwilling to help, they might as well just be ignored.

Edited December 21, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Insults are never deserved for someone's attempts to help fellow players. I bet none of the others tagged up afterward. Sorry to read about your experience OP.

[Ryou.2398]

20 hours ago, Von Dobbs.9072 said:

Hello, I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for the past four years, usually solo.

 

I acquired a commander's tag a few weeks ago, mainly to attract other players to me when I find an event in the morning while doing my dailies.

 

Yesterday evening I wanted to do Dragon's Stand. We were few players and there was only one commander.

 

As I could see that no one else was putting a tag, I tagged up, to help, and I started in the south lane.

 

Everything went well up to the Tower.

 

There, things got complicated and I ended up seeing insults on the map chat, towards me, harsh and hurtful insults. I logged out.

 

I know Dragon's Stand very well, however. I've done the meta hundreds of times, on all lanes.

 

But it turns out that I am autistic (Asperger's syndrome) and that finding myself as a commander puts me in a state of deep embarrassment, confuses me.

 

People without autism probably cannot understand this.

 

Leading other players is something that is difficult and totally foreign to me.

 

I absolutely do not have the mental of a "commander".

 

In addition, I am French, and I speak poor English, which means that I refrain from giving instructions in map chat.

 

Nothing serious, of course. But despite everything these insults hurt me.

 

Maybe it bears repeating: don't forget that there is a real human being behind the toon, an individual with their frailties and vulnerability, who is just trying to participate in the game like you.

Hey friend I am sorry this happened to you truly, it happens to everyone in mmos, there is allot going on and everone is stressed out, we have allot of refuges from other mmos where it may have been a different vibe, of course im not saying the gw2 community is perfect either, do not let one experience ruin it for you just avoid being a commander in the map, also do not take this wrong but my son is high fuctioning autiistic and has zero emberassment, but maybe it was some of my lessons to help with that. But I do not think its black or white, it truly differs from person to person, hollywood makes people think it is though its ridiculous. Really these kind of people are emberassing themselves its not your job to hold the mirror for them.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

19 hours ago, Von Dobbs.9072 said:

I don't have a high perception of my value, especially in the game. I play a lot but am not a "good" player.

I am not able to do high end content, not least because I have speech difficulties which keep me away from Discord.

So, no, my estimate of my worth in the game is not high and I can hardly fight against that.

There's good news: most raid/fractal groups don't actually demand that you speak in discord.  They only demand you listen.  I've been in a few groups that run discord, and my inability to speak hasn't been a problem for any of them.  I'm autistic, too, and as time has gone on the ability to form words and speak intelligibly has been diminishing rapidly.

That all said, emotional fortitude isn't really a feature of autism.  It seems like it is, but that is just because we have a lower stress threshold than regular people.  But, the inability to handle insults or negative criticism is a very, VERY common trait.  There's even an insult for it: snowflakes.  It is partly a side-effect of the modern-day self-esteem culture, partly because of the internet, probably a few other reasons, but whatever the cause the modern day western person is losing the ability to play well with others.  There is some value in stoicism, and it is something that most people need to work on, autistic or not.  

[Borked.6824]

Props for taking the initiative on acquiring and using your tag.  That alone speaks to your quality.  It's not just an icon on a map and people know who's the alpha at the end of the day.