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Bad time at Dragons' Stand


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19 hours ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

but why

i recomend work on perceive your personal value

once you make up your own opinion about yourself you will not care much about opinion of others as whos knows you better then you yourself (feedbacks are still ok tho, but you are deciding that)

trening will also help if your shy person

You need give yourself question, did you want other ppl to hear you out

if answer is yes, then go on, make your opinion, once you give it one or twice, more times will make you more experienced and you will need less curage to do that 😉

...You really don't know?  It's weird that I'm the one who has to explain this:

  1. Insults usually have direct consequences, either immediately or in the near future.  They're never floating meaninglessly in the ether.  They're said by a person, usually by someone who has been incited to by some action that that you've taken, and are usually followed up on by action.  I.E. if I'm walking down the street and I hear a bunch of slurs and insults coming my way, this usually means "square up, I'm going to attack you."  Personal value doesn't mean squat when getting hot-clocked in the back of the head.  If it doesn't mean that, it means you wake up the next day with your car stolen and driven into a ditch.  Or, if you live in a more civilized part of the world than urban areas, it means you're going to get threatening letters from HR and chewed out by your boss because the person who didn't like you decided to file false complaints against you.  Similar things happen when you find yourself mysteriously banned from your favorite social media hangouts, or your favorite bar, etc and so on.  People, as a whole, like drama and gossip, and they will form opinions about you based on flimsy rumors and whims, and then they change how they treat you based on those rumors.  In-game, if you do a bad job at commanding, it means people will just quit whatever you are trying to do (strike, raid, overworld event), refuse to join you ever again, and let other people know that you're terrible if ever the subject comes up.
  2. The average person can't just make an opinion of themselves and stick to it.  The way we form opinions about ourselves comes from a combination of our own personal experiences on the matter, and also the feedback that we receive from others when doing something.  There's a term we have when people create self-evaluations without either of those: Dunning-Krueger effect.  Case in point, Von Dobbs here is not a seasoned commander.  It is impossible for him to form a rational and sturdy opinion of his commanding abilities due to this lack of experience.  Therefore, when things go terrible and everyone hates him for it, there's only one basis to go off of, and that is personal failure.  When I recommend stoicism, this isn't about shutting your mind off as much as it is detaching yourself emotionally from your performance.  If a person just quits taking feedback, this doesn't resolve an issues that incited the incident.  
  3. The insults also matter when you care about the subject.  This ties in to point 1, wherein most insults aren't actually random.  There's usually an event that incites them, tied to something that you'll be doing, and you're doing such a thing because you care about getting it done.  In these circumstances, the insults are like a one-two punch when combined with personal inadequacies.  The brain is constantly trying to resolve the dissonance between what it wants to do, and what it is actually doing, and having another person drag you such a subject causes an increase in stress.  

 

19 hours ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

 

Commander is not leading ppl, his giving his opinion how to solve problem, and other ppl taking that sugestion 

I was commanding with mentor tag few times, and ppl not folowed commander that randomly taged up but me insted, as my sugestions on map chat was better, and even if ppl debout me on start, once thay notice i'm profesional thay stick to me

Notice that some ppl can test you by asking some stupid questions, but it's becose thay want put thay trust on you, and thay checking your mentality (by thay instinct)

Commanding is very much about leading people.  There's different leadership styles, with some strict and some relaxed, but make no mistake: the person who wears the colored dorito is assumed by default to be in-charge.  Players look to the commander for instructions, and for a guiding point.  When it comes to instanced content, the commander has control of group formation and also decides if someone stays or not.  It is a shame that so many people just tag up and expect everyone to know what's going on, but that's the worst way to handle things.  Even just putting simple directions in the daily squad message can help out immensely.  

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On 12/21/2021 at 10:06 AM, AgentMoore.9453 said:

There isn't really a fix for this kind of behavior [...]

This kind of aggressive and disrespectful behavior is increasing ever since GW2 went free2play and all those ill-mannered people from other games (where this type of behavior is considered normal) came pouring in.

I remember two years ago commanding the same, Dragon's Stand, on a male Norn, whose name included a ligature for ö because the variant with an Umlaut was already taken. I got bombarded by some aggressive trolls (because of said ligature) with immature phrases such as, "Oooh, look at you, you must feel special with that name!", "Look at him [I am female, btw], he must be seeking attention badly LOL", "Special snowflake" etc. They just wouldn't shut up about it and got more and more insulting, until I blocked every single one of them so I could continue commanding my lane in peace.

On another occasion, I was called a "weep" for daring to have a character with a Canthan name. The person attacking me called me names I dare not repeat.

There are dozens more examples, so @Von Dobbs.9072, you are not alone - if that is of any comfort to you.

I remember when everyone used to be polite in this game.

Edited by Ashantara.8731
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I refrain from using my tag for meta's as well, largely because I don't want the responsibility of screwing something up if I forget something or get distracted. 

Mostly I just use the tag to lure others to me, but not really for my benefit it's always for theirs.
They help me kill things faster for sure but they get loot from something I would otherwise just solo.

Bounties, single target events and mostly the Halloween Labyrinth is where I mostly use my tag.
I rarely tag up for Metas, I probably could command them fine but I'd rather let others who are more familiar with commanding them do it.

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I won't comment much I'll just add that being a Commander with autism is very difficult. Those of us who are autistic tend to take everything literally and personally, due to how we're raised and how others treat us.

 

For those who don't know, we're generally treated as worthless by our families and so-called friends due to being "broken" and needing to be "fixed",  and their overall embarassment of us, and this leads to lifelong problems where we perceive everyone as seeing us this way. This translates into the game, too, but it only really comes full force when leading other players, when there's high expectations of you and its easy to fail, which leads to completely different situation to how a neurotypical person would be able to just shrug off the insults and so on.

 

Basically, abuse is multiplied several fold against autistics, because we're taught its what we deserve.

 

There's alot more that could be said, but I'd recommend more people learn about it. It does alot of good, more than you think, every person who learns about it is someone who can teach others.

Edited by Hannelore.8153
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13 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

This kind of aggressive and disrespectful behavior is increasing ever since GW2 went free2play and all those ill-mannered people from other games (where this type of behavior is considered normal) came pouring in.

I remember two years ago commanding the same, Dragon's Stand, on a male Norn, whose name included a ligature for ö because the variant with an Umlaut was already taken. I got bombarded by some aggressive trolls (because of said ligature) with immature phrases such as, "Oooh, look at you, you must feel special with that name!", "Look at him [I am female, btw], he must be seeking attention badly LOL", "Special snowflake" etc. They just wouldn't shut up about it and got more and more insulting, until I blocked every single one of them so I could continue commanding my lane in peace.

On another occasion, I was called a "weep" for daring to have a character with a Canthan name. The person attacking me called me names I dare not repeat.

There are dozens more examples, so @Von Dobbs.9072, you are not alone - if that is of any comfort to you.

I remember when everyone used to be polite in this game.

Since dragon stand is an expansion map this got nothing to do with the free to play people.

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Two things, @Von Dobbs.9072:
 

(1) Although it didn't go well, I think it's commendable that you stretched yourself a bit and tried!

(2) Dragon's stand is perhaps the one meta that absolutely requires verbal direction before the blighting towers phase, and is greatly improved by similar verbal directions at all other event phases. As such, the experience was almost guaranteed to turn out the way it did for you, hopefully you can get over the ill feelings regarding that soon. That said, it is entirely possible to keep your communication limited and front-loaded (giving brief explanations before the event starts).

For instance during the escort phases, as a commander I always tell people the general order things appear in (thornheart, stalkers, etc) so that when I put a target marker on the thornheart and just say "cc", people know what's going on and generally comply. Same deal with the spitfires, I always tell the entire group about Vinetenders and Preservers, so during combat all I have to do is target mark them, and people comply. This way, I am not constantly composing messages, but can instead just use the target marker tool (and the squad ground markers) to more passively direct people.

But more than anything else, the best thing a tag can do in that map is simply to be in the right place. If you don't want your south group outpacing the dolyak to go play with the axemaster, you can just make sure you're always where the thornheart or stalkers spawn on the escort instead of running ahead. This is 100x more true for the blighting tower, where your raison d'être is to keep the group moving towards the next preserver.

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i have Asperger too, and commanded Dragon Stand, and insulted once time, i just dont cared about it, if u really a truly asperger, u wont be ashamed so easily. most ppl complained about me talking very little, not because of syndrome, because im bit "slow" to command tower rotation and same time type..... Ppl who really have asperger tend to ignore communication, if u feel "ashamed" or insecure because of it, u aren't so autistic as u think....

 

 

Edited by ugrakarma.9416
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18 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Since dragon stand is an expansion map this got nothing to do with the free to play people.

Okay, perhaps I should elaborate on my statement: "free2play" attracts a lot of people from all different corners of the gaming universe. Many of those people then decide to stay and buy the game.

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The best solution is like experienced commanders do:

 

- If u are to start a encounter that require much control, so u can't type to explain things, explain things before encounter starts. In the countless Dragon Stand i have seen, i noticed the ones who some commander give a brief explain before Towers start, have better sucess rate.

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42 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

I won't comment much I'll just add that being a Commander with autism is very difficult. Those of us who are autistic tend to take everything literally and personally, due to how we're raised and how others treat us.

 

For those who don't know, we're generally treated as worthless by our families and so-called friends due to being "broken" and needing to be "fixed",  and their overall embarassment of us, and this leads to lifelong problems where we perceive everyone as seeing us this way. This translates into the game, too, but it only really comes full force when leading other players, when there's high expectations of you and its easy to fail, which leads to completely different situation to how a neurotypical person would be able to just shrug off the insults and so on.

 

Basically, abuse is multiplied several fold against autistics, because we're taught its what we deserve.

 

There's alot more that could be said, but I'd recommend more people learn about it. It does alot of good, more than you think, every person who learns about it is someone who can teach others.

You have presented the problem perfectly.

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Just want to say you're awesome for trying! Even more awesome to come here and share your experience.

Being a commander for a large, coordinated map meta is possibly one of the most pivotal yet thankless roles one can take on in GW2. 

Hope you still decide to command, even if it is smaller squad events! Tyria needs you!

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