Revitalizing Berserker: Traits and Utilities

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I've been playing a lot more of Berserker recently, and I've found it to be pretty fun!  Even in competitive, it has the feeling of "almost there".  However, as has been well documented, Berserker has several glaring flaws, chief among them are:

1.) Berserker is nearly impotent when out of berserk mode

2.) Berserker utilities are garbage

3.) Berserker's sustain traits are underwhelming

 

For the remainder of the post, I'm working under the assumption that a complete re-work is off the table.  Instead, I'm focusing on tweaking things that already exist in an attempt to make Berserker competitive.  With no further ado...

 

Utilities:

They all suck and I don't think I would ever pick any of them over core war utilities.  Here are my takes on tweaks that would make them more useful:

 

Outrage: 

Stunbreak, 20s CD. 

Gain Resistance for 4s

Extends Berserk Mode 5s (1s if not breaking stun)

 

Sundering Leap: 

800 range leap, 3/4s cast, 20s CD

leap finisher

2s AoE knock down (radius 180)

Applies 10 stacks vulnerability

Extends Berserk Mode 4s on hit

 

Wild Blow:

Knockback/launch same as it is now, 1/2s cast, 20s CD

240 range

100% critical chance (helps in PvE I guess)

Grants Fury (8s)

Extends Berserk Mode 5s on hit

 

Rock Guard:

Flip-over skill: Blocks for 1.5s; can click again to shatter.  20s CD

2 stacks of bleeding, 2 stacks stability on shatter

Extends Berserk Mode 3s

 

Head Butt:

Same as it is now, but ignores blind.

 

Blood Reckoning:

Same as it is now; good skill.

 

***New Utility Mechanic***:  Using a Rage skill outside of Berserk mode reduces Berserk CD by 2s.

 This gives the Rage skills added value and helps address the issue of Berserker being helpless outside of berserk mode.  You'd still need to have the 30 adrenaline needed to enter Berserk, so stocking up on Rage Skills without a way to gain adrenaline (like signet of fury or to the limit) has its drawbacks.  But using 1-2 rage skills out of berserk mode could shorten the CD from 11s to 7-9s--much more reasonable. 

 

Traits:

Many of the traits are good (bloody roar, heat the soul, smash brawler, etc), but some are pretty weak.

 

Savage Instinct:

Entering Berserk Mode breaks stun

Take no physical OR condition damage for 2s on entering Berserk mode (can still be CC'd)

 

Last Blaze:

Using a rage skill burns nearby enemies (1 stack burning for 4s) AND grants fire aura

(the idea here is grant more synergy with King of Fires; more fire auras = more detonations via KoF).

 

Eternal Champion:

+300 toughness in Berserk

Gain stability and might when breaking stuns (same as it is now)

Gain pulsing regeneration while in Berserk mode (3s Regen, reapplied every 3s).

[Geoff Fey.1035]

I like these suggestions although Last Blaze I would argue should provide a 4s buff that inflicts Burning (a bit less than current trait) on hit. That way, if you went Greatsword/Axes you could stack burning just as easily if you went Longbow/Swords.

King of Fires should have no cooldown (currently 15s CD on gaining fire aura per crit, so roughly 1-2 times per Berserk... Some "King").

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Quibble:

I'd have the traits that give benefits in Berserk Mode to give half the benefits when out of Berserk Mode.

I'd also get rid of the toughness penalty.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

To elaborate further...

Bloody Roar: Gain 10% increased strike damage. This bonus is doubled in Berserk Mode.

Eternal Champion: Gain 150 toughness, when breaking stuns gain 1 stack of stability for 4s, and 2 might for 5s. These bonuses are doubled in Berserk Mode.

Fatal Frenzy: gain 150 power and 150 condition damag, these bonuses are doubled in Berserk Mode.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

28 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

To elaborate further...

Bloody Roar: Gain 10% increased strike damage. This bonus is doubled in Berserk Mode.

Eternal Champion: Gain 150 toughness, when breaking stuns gain 1 stack of stability for 4s, and 2 might for 5s. These bonuses are doubled in Berserk Mode.

Fatal Frenzy: gain 150 power and 150 condition damag, these bonuses are doubled in Berserk Mode.

Those are really good ideas. I like it.

[anbujackson.9564]

To mention two more:

 

Burst of aggression: Gain a burst of speed when using a burst skill (entering berserk mode falls into this effect too, since it counts as a t3 burst, this would work great in the situation that they bring normal bursts back in) 

Dead or Alive: Add an effect that heals you upon exiting berserk mode (that would work even better with a manual mode exit). The healing is doubled when receiving fatal damage in berserk mode.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by anbujackson.9564

[anbujackson.9564]

4 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Those are really good ideas. I like it.

Its actually sad how simple some improvements are, even when considering coding this stuff. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Those are really good ideas. I like it.

Part of the espec's problem is that most of the benefits are locked into B Mode. Give half benefits out of the mode and it might just do well enough to not have problems in competitive.

 

3 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

To mention two more:

 

Burst of aggression: Gain a burst of speed when using a burst skill (entering berserk mode falls into this effect too, since it counts as a t3 burst, this would work great in the situation that they bring normal bursts back in) 

Dead or Alive: Add an effect that heals you upon exiting berserk mode (that would work even better with a manual mode exit). The healing is doubled when receiving fatal damage in berserk mode.

 

 

I agree with Burst of Aggression completely.

The DorA change might be too strong unless the doubled amount is the current amount.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Maybe DorA could grant barrier when using a burst instead of the heal on fatal blow?

1k per foe struck, 4s ICD. Let's AoEs proc more barrier, but stops Arc Divider from giving 15k, stops FF from giving out 8k, and keeps Decap from turning Berserker into a bunker. I think 30% healing power coefficient would be fine.

[Infusion.7149]

No F2 button to drop Berserk mode manually at a cost of Berserk mode lockout/adrenaline/rage skill lockout? Disappointed.

The Bloody Roar change proposed above would be nice too. It would make berserker at least sort of on par with core warrior outside of berserk mode in competitive scenarios. On the spellbreaker traitline once you have Magebane tether on someone if you run Pure Strike it's 17% total crit damage bonuses (which is more than the 15% of the full Bloody Roar Bonus , although if you have Berserker armor and Blood Reaction it is roughly 9% ferocity bonus outside of Berserk Mode).

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

46 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

No F2 button to drop Berserk mode manually at a cost of Berserk mode lockout/adrenaline/rage skill lockout? Disappointed.

The Bloody Roar change proposed above would be nice too. It would make berserker at least sort of on par with core warrior outside of berserk mode in competitive scenarios. On the spellbreaker traitline once you have Magebane tether on someone if you run Pure Strike it's 17% total crit damage bonuses (which is more than the 15% of the full Bloody Roar Bonus , although if you have Berserker armor and Blood Reaction it is roughly 9% ferocity bonus outside of Berserk Mode).

If they allow said traits to grant half benefits when not in Berserk Mode, and buff them somewhat then Berserker may not need the F2 to exit Berserk Mode.

[oscuro.9720]

Would be nice if they remove adrenaline requirements for skills in berserker mode. Just tie them to cool downs, we already built the adrenaline to enter berserker mode. 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Would be nice if they remove adrenaline requirements for skills in berserker mode. Just tie them to cool downs, we already built the adrenaline to enter berserker mode. 

 

What would you do then for Decapitate? Spamming that off CD with no adrenaline requirement would be very, very strong.

[Infusion.7149]

^ That's why it isn't balanced that way. Berserker has skills that circumvent cooldowns.

[covahlam.6391]

So one idea I had to give warrior more z-axis mobility without resorting to full on ports would be to add a z-axis to a couple of leap skills, sundering leap and stomp being the prime candidates. Basically, the travel distance would be the hypotenuse of the triangle formed between the warrior, the destination, and the ground. A higher jump would mean less horizontal distance traveled whereas using the skill on flat terrain would mimic the current behavior. So with the addition of the z-axis component, a warrior could 'high jump' up to a ledge such as the clocktower on battle of kyhlo. Thematically, this idea fits well with berserker IMO.

Both sundering leap and stomp would have to be sped up quite a bit, but I don't see that being unfair. Stomp provides stab, too, which would help reduce the risk of being interrupted mid leap. Also, I know way back in like 2014, anet patched leaps to prevent them from being able to scale certain terrain, but the game has changed so much that there is no need to be bound by that philosophy. Orrrr, warrior could, you know, just get an actual port skill.

Edited December 23, 2021 by covahlam.6391

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

9 minutes ago, covahlam.6391 said:

So one idea I had to give warrior more z-axis mobility without resorting to full on ports would be to add a z-axis to a couple of leap skills, sundering leap and stomp being the prime candidates. Basically, the travel distance would be the hypotenuse of the triangle formed between the warrior, the destination, and the ground. A higher jump would mean less horizontal distance traveled whereas using the skill on flat terrain would mimic the current behavior. So with the addition of the z-axis component, a warrior could 'high jump' up to a ledge such as the clocktower on battle of kyhlo. Thematically, this idea fits well with berserker IMO.

Both sundering leap and stomp would have to be sped up quite a bit, but I don't see that being unfair. Stomp provides stab, too, which would help reduce the risk of being interrupted mid leap. Also, I know way back in like 2014, anet patched leaps to prevent them from being able to scale certain terrain, but the game has changed so much that there is no need to be bound by that philosophy. Orrrr, warrior could, you know, just get an actual port skill.

I agree; I had this in mind with the proposed changes to Sundering leap. Would definitely help with Warrior's mobility issues.

 

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

No F2 button to drop Berserk mode manually at a cost of Berserk mode lockout/adrenaline/rage skill lockout? Disappointed.

I'd totally be down with this. I was operating under the assumption that they wouldn't change the core mechanic of Berserker, but you're right, a simple "off" button doesn't seem like to much of an ask...

 

Further, this would offer the possibility of doing what @anbujackson.9564 suggested RE DoA and leave Berserk mode early to get some healing (I'd propose one half the current value). 

[oscuro.9720]

8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

What would you do then for Decapitate? Spamming that off CD with no adrenaline requirement would be very, very strong.

That’s a good point. I’d just remove the CD reduction, it’s a 5s CD. It would be strong, I like strong things. I honestly don’t play berserker much, so I have no sense of balance around it, I just know that the adrenaline requirement in zerk mode can be annoying and don’t like it.

[Ezikeo.5047]

Nice

Edited December 23, 2021 by Ezikeo.5047

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

That’s a good point. I’d just remove the CD reduction, it’s a 5s CD. It would be strong, I like strong things. I honestly don’t play berserker much, so I have no sense of balance around it, I just know that the adrenaline requirement in zerk mode can be annoying and don’t like it.

I think that then would make Power Berserker do less damage in PvE, which we would not want to do. I think it only takes 1s to get the adrenaline needed to slap F1 again. So after getting rid of Adrenaline needed for Berserk Mode I would change Decap so that instead of instantly recharges if it hits, for it to have a reduced CD if it hits (5s ->1s).

That preserves Power Berserker DPS in PvE while giving QOL for the other bursts.

[Katary.7096]

8 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

That’s a good point. I’d just remove the CD reduction, it’s a 5s CD. It would be strong, I like strong things. I honestly don’t play berserker much, so I have no sense of balance around it, I just know that the adrenaline requirement in zerk mode can be annoying and don’t like it.

Removing adrenaline from primal bursts sounds like it is going to dumb down the only resource mechanic that core warrior has and it is doing it on an elite specialization. Why would you want that? Warrior elite specs should make managing adrenaline more complex than core, not simpler.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

32 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

Removing adrenaline from primal bursts sounds like it is going to dumb down the only resource mechanic that core warrior has and it is doing it on an elite specialization. Why would you want that? Warrior elite specs should make managing adrenaline more complex than core, not simpler.

Well Berserker is already simpler. You only need 10 adrenaline for a Primal Burst, which is kind of easy to get before they are off CD anyway.

[Morokey.8534]

The only thing I miss is F2 for manual exit berserker form. + There should be possibility to recharge berserk mode faster for example head but can fully recharge berserker mode or if you use a rage skill out of berserker form their duration if hit (2s,3s,4s,5s) just reduce berserker mode for that duration. Logicaly.. you are not angry out of berserk rage skills helps you to be angry agin so cd reduce.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Morokey.8534

[Katary.7096]

On 12/23/2021 at 4:43 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Well Berserker is already simpler. You only need 10 adrenaline for a Primal Burst, which is kind of easy to get before they are off CD anyway.

I don't think that that is the same spectrum. If primal bursts were to cost 40 adrenaline instead of 10 then Berserker would be as simple as it is now. (Assuming maximum adrenaline would be 40 points ofc.) It was different back when Berserker had the option to use core bursts or enter berserk mode instead. Also current axe Berserker, but that is just one weapon so doesn't really count.

[anbujackson.9564]

In addition to ignoring blind, headbutt should also get its old animation speed back since its dealing no damage anymore (which was the main problem in the first place I believe). 

[Ovark.2514]

On 12/21/2021 at 6:04 PM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I've been playing a lot more of Berserker recently, and I've found it to be pretty fun!  Even in competitive, it has the feeling of "almost there".  However, as has been well documented, Berserker has several glaring flaws, chief among them are:

1.) Berserker is nearly impotent when out of berserk mode

2.) Berserker utilities are garbage

3.) Berserker's sustain traits are underwhelming

 

For the remainder of the post, I'm working under the assumption that a complete re-work is off the table.  Instead, I'm focusing on tweaking things that already exist in an attempt to make Berserker competitive.  With no further ado...

 

Utilities:

They all suck and I don't think I would ever pick any of them over core war utilities.  Here are my takes on tweaks that would make them more useful:

 

Outrage: 

Stunbreak, 20s CD. 

Gain Resistance for 4s

Extends Berserk Mode 5s (1s if not breaking stun)

 

Sundering Leap: 

800 range leap, 3/4s cast, 20s CD

leap finisher

2s AoE knock down (radius 180)

Applies 10 stacks vulnerability

Extends Berserk Mode 4s on hit

 

Wild Blow:

Knockback/launch same as it is now, 1/2s cast, 20s CD

240 range

100% critical chance (helps in PvE I guess)

Grants Fury (8s)

Extends Berserk Mode 5s on hit

 

Rock Guard:

Flip-over skill: Blocks for 1.5s; can click again to shatter.  20s CD

2 stacks of bleeding, 2 stacks stability on shatter

Extends Berserk Mode 3s

 

Head Butt:

Same as it is now, but ignores blind.

 

Blood Reckoning:

Same as it is now; good skill.

 

***New Utility Mechanic***:  Using a Rage skill outside of Berserk mode reduces Berserk CD by 2s.

 This gives the Rage skills added value and helps address the issue of Berserker being helpless outside of berserk mode.  You'd still need to have the 30 adrenaline needed to enter Berserk, so stocking up on Rage Skills without a way to gain adrenaline (like signet of fury or to the limit) has its drawbacks.  But using 1-2 rage skills out of berserk mode could shorten the CD from 11s to 7-9s--much more reasonable. 

 

Traits:

Many of the traits are good (bloody roar, heat the soul, smash brawler, etc), but some are pretty weak.

 

Savage Instinct:

Entering Berserk Mode breaks stun

Take no physical OR condition damage for 2s on entering Berserk mode (can still be CC'd)

 

Last Blaze:

Using a rage skill burns nearby enemies (1 stack burning for 4s) AND grants fire aura

(the idea here is grant more synergy with King of Fires; more fire auras = more detonations via KoF).

 

Eternal Champion:

+300 toughness in Berserk

Gain stability and might when breaking stuns (same as it is now)

Gain pulsing regeneration while in Berserk mode (3s Regen, reapplied every 3s).

Good stuff. Similar to what I have been saying ever since it was released. My additions are: King of Fires is very frustrating  to use since it triggers randomly so it should grant a fire aura when landing a burst skill and detonate it when critically striking a foe within X range of you. Also Last Blaze needs a larger AOE because it doesn't burn foes when you use Wild Blow. Blood Reaction is boring and Dead or Alive is lame and mostly useless.