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Options for me as a roamer in alliance system.


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On 12/23/2021 at 4:06 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

Have squads and grouping disabled on the roamer map lol. 🤭

If a territory detects more than 5 players from one side in it, it starts up random fractal instabilities for every 5 player increments after for that side for 5mins. 🤪

Everyone would have to put on commander tags to keep track of how many are in territories at a time. 🤣

 

I actually had an idea sort of like this for a WvW event, lol.

Lone Wolf
Health and Armor are reduced by X% for every player within a 240 radius of you. Power and Condition Damage is increased by 100% when no one is nearby. 

Imagine literally deleting 20+ people as a solo. So many people would quit WvW for the week, lmao.

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Look, you are stuck in the exchange and making further threads about it does not in any way help you past the point of where you are stuck.  You can form a guild or join an alliance with "your p

Roamers don't need a (open) tag and pugs can just join a guild/alliance with whatever pugmander they like to follow. Letting the game sort players by "role" is difficult if not impossible, becaus

7 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

There are also scenario (not so much scenario because it already is like this for me in the first beta) where one friend is alliance with A team, another is alliance with B team, and some on C team.  I definitely do not want to have to choose which team to be with in this situation.

You just said why your idea of a selection-that-isnt-a-selection is flawed and impossible in practice - because your "familiars" make choices. If you cant make that choice then how is the game supposed to make that choice for you?

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28 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

You just said why your idea of a selection-that-isnt-a-selection is flawed and impossible in practice - because your "familiars" make choices. If you cant make that choice then how is the game supposed to make that choice for you?

are you collecting posts? because what you just said does not make any sense. 

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On 12/21/2021 at 10:46 PM, SweetPotato.7456 said:


CHECKBOX 1 --->>>  I want to stay where most of my people are
 

Maybe if you want to keep this thread on topic and constructive, you can answer my first question:

"Do you get placed with the 10 players you're familiar with who were on the same server as you since launch or the 50 players you don't really know who just transferred to your server a month before servers get removed?"

I.E.: How is the system supposed to know who "most of your people" are?

Edited by Chaba.5410
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6 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Why?  If your words don't make sense, don't get mad at the rest of us for asking some basic questions about your thought process.

Because you are censoring my whole post!  nick picking on one line to troll. If you want to pretend to be constructive, you would not have don't what you did, hence why I asked you to please go away. 

Please go away.

Edited by SweetPotato.7456
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6 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Maybe if you want to keep this thread on topic and constructive, you can answer my first question:

"Do you get placed with the 10 players you're familiar with who were on the same server as you since launch or the 50 players you don't really know who just transferred to your server a month before servers get removed?"

I.E.: How is the system supposed to know who "most of your people" are?

If you do not know how to do something, you ask someone who knows a lot to do it, in this case they are ArenaNet 
Hence why I am asking ArenaNet for this.


Also, that thing is called a D A T A B  A S E

Edited by SweetPotato.7456
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52 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Because you are censoring my whole post!  nick picking on one line to troll. If you want to pretend to be constructive, you would not have don't what you did, hence why I asked you to please go away. 

Please go away.

 

51 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

If you do not know how to do something, you ask someone who knows a lot to do it, in this case they are ArenaNet 
Hence why I am asking ArenaNet for this.


Also, that thing is called a D A T A B  A S E

Which data within the database is supposed to be used?  If servers are going away, that data isn't going to exist anymore.  You post some suggestion without thinking further about the implementation obstacles of it then get mad and accuse others of censorship and trolling when you don't like the questions they ask in trying to help you develop your idea further?  It's absurd.

ArenaNet has already thought a lot about these problems and came up with using guilds and alliances to help players stay together.  If you can't answer basic questions about how your idea is supposed to work, how do you expect to convince them to do something different?  Would you consider it a success if they matched you with 10 players who have been on your server since launch or with 50 players who transferred to your server just a month before servers disappear?

Edited by Chaba.5410
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28 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

 

Which data within the database is supposed to be used?  If servers are going away, that data isn't going to exist anymore.  You post some suggestion without thinking further about the implementation obstacles of it then get mad and accuse others of censorship and trolling when you don't like the questions they ask in trying to help you develop your idea further?  It's absurd.

ArenaNet has already thought a lot about these problems and came up with using guilds and alliances to help players stay together.  If you can't answer basic questions about how your idea is supposed to work, how do you expect to convince them to do something different?  Would you consider it a success if they matched you with 10 players who have been on your server since launch or with 50 players who transferred to your server just a month before servers disappear?

If I have to answer questions to play a game, I'd be playing who wants to be a millionaire and not Guild Wars 2, I am here to enjoy pretending to be an Asura and not try to be a rocket scientist, I am trying to make my game experience better by submitting my request, frankly I don't know what you are doing.

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21 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

If I have to answer questions to play a game, I'd be playing who wants to be a millionaire and not Guild Wars 2, I am here to enjoy pretending to be an Asura and not try to be a rocket scientist, I am trying to make my game experience better by submitting my request, frankly I don't know what you are doing.

Chaba is actually trying to help your suggestion make sense enough for ANet to listen to it.

Your suggestion/request as it stands can basically be summed up as "ANet please wave your magic wand and make me happy!". It lacks constructive ideas or suggestions, and if you can't present a good constructive idea that could logically work well with the whole "World-Restructure/Alliance" system, then ANet isn't going to deviate from their existing plan (using Guilds and Alliances of Guilds as the community building, to be grouped with the people you want to play with).

Because so far, everything you've asked for and wanted can be replicated with an Alliance (except that you don't like it), so ANet doesn't have much reason to really change or add to their plan.

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4 minutes ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Chaba is actually trying to help your suggestion make sense enough for ANet to listen to it.

Your suggestion/request as it stands can basically be summed up as "ANet please wave your magic wand and make me happy!". It lacks constructive ideas or suggestions, and if you can't present a good constructive idea that could logically work well with the whole "World-Restructure/Alliance" system, then ANet isn't going to deviate from their existing plan (using Guilds and Alliances of Guilds as the community building, to be grouped with the people you want to play with).

Because so far, everything you've asked for and wanted can be replicated with an Alliance (except that you don't like it), so ANet doesn't have much reason to really change or add to their plan.

Chaba really isn't helping by saying this won't work every step of the way and censoring everything I put in here, quoting one line to pick it apart, all I see is Chaba trying really hard to troll.  

This is a situation where I see if Anet wanted to , it can be done, the database is there, if they don't want to , like I said before 0.001% chance,  than it won't be done, but I have to put it here because I do not like where the alliance is taking me, it is destroying a game I have  invested 9 years to.  I do not need Chaba to challenge the one little thing I wish Anet would consider.

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2 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Chaba really isn't helping by saying this won't work every step of the way and censoring everything I put in here, quoting one line to pick it apart, all I see is Chaba trying really hard to troll.  

This is a situation where I see if Anet wanted to , it can be done, the database is there, if they don't want to , like I said before 0.001% chance,  than it won't be done, but I have to put it here because I do not like where the alliance is taking me, it is destroying a game I have  invested 9 years to.  I do not need Chaba to challenge the one little thing I wish Anet would consider.

My account has been on some ~15 different servers on both EU and NA. Which server would the database consider me to be for grouping ? This can create a lot of different results:

  1. Do they throw me back to my original first server (that I was on perhaps 1-2 weeks)?
  2. Or the one I've stayed the longest on?
  3. The one I've been the most times on?
  4. Or the latest one?
  5. Or a random other one?

This gets more complicated with band-wagons, mass server transfers, and when most players consider the "link" to just be open "rental spots" to the host server (and thus consider themselves the host server members and not the link server members).

It's a simple idea, but with a complicated execution. And if ANet tried to do this I imagine you wouldn't like the end result, as many of the ones you want to be grouped with might end up considered at some other "server" than you did, depending what statistic they used from the data-base.

Which is why they're going with the Alliance system, give players the control to pick/invite the people they want to play with. Which for all practical purposes is:
 

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CHECKBOX 1 --->>>  I want to stay where most of my people are

 

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9 minutes ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

My account has been on some ~15 different servers on both EU and NA. Which server would the database consider me to be for grouping ? This can create a lot of different results:

  1. Do they throw me back to my original first server (that I was on perhaps 1-2 weeks)?
  2. Or the one I've stayed the longest on?
  3. The one I've been the most times on?
  4. Or the latest one?
  5. Or a random other one?

This gets more complicated with band-wagons, mass server transfers, and when most players consider the "link" to just be open "rental spots" to the host server (and thus consider themselves the host server members and not the link server members).

It's a simple idea, but with a complicated execution. And if ANet tried to do this I imagine you wouldn't like the end result, as many of the ones you want to be grouped with might end up considered at some other "server" than you did, depending what statistic they used from the data-base.

Which is why they're going with the Alliance system, give players the control to pick/invite the people they want to play with. Which for all practical purposes is:
 

 

Hence 0.001% , what are you trying to proof? Maybe theres that 0.001% that one coder in ArenaNet is just that efficient. 

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9 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Hence 0.001% , what are you trying to proof? Maybe theres that 0.001% that one coder in ArenaNet is just that efficient. 

Basically just trying to tell you that ANet has already spent some years thinking through this, and their answer to what you ask for is Alliances.

So unless you actually have a brilliant (and plausible) suggestion to give them, ANet will just say "Yeah, you're getting Alliances which does all that." and move on.

But it's pretty clear you don't want to listen to me, or anyone else that tries to discuss in the discussion forum. So good luck.

(Also just noticed my first post in the thread got removed, huh weird, didn't even get a message about it)

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1 minute ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Basically just trying to tell you that ANet has already spent some years thinking through this, and their answer to what you ask for is Alliances.

So unless you actually have a brilliant (and plausible) suggestion to give them, ANet will just say "Yeah, you're getting Alliances which does all that." and move on.

But it's pretty clear you don't want to listen to me, or anyone else that tries to discuss in the discussion forum. So good luck.

(Also just noticed my first post in the thread got removed, huh weird, didn't even get a message about it)

You've actually helped there, the previous post of this one.
so, sorting of players should not be base on "ip address/the individual/the player" instead base on the Account (not the account holder), you said you have 15 accounts overall, if something is to be implemented it should be account base, NOT on the account holder,  My other accounts definitely want to stay with who they play with on those account. 
Thank You

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3 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

You've actually helped there, the previous post of this one.
so, sorting of players should not be base on "ip address/the individual/the player" instead base on the Account (not the account holder), you said you have 15 accounts overall, if something is to be implemented it should be account base, NOT on the account holder,  My other accounts definitely want to stay with who they play with on those account. 
Thank You

Clarification: I said my account (1) has been on many different servers (approximate 15, don't remember exactly), and on both NA and EU. (Ironically, I've mostly moved servers for PvE, not WvW)

So if ANet made a system, that grouped me with others based on what server I used to be on (before server get removed), I could just as well end up in EU as NA and be separated from my entire guild and friends by getting stuck back on EU again.

A lot of WvW players has moved servers around a lot. A system based on what servers they've been on could very possibly be much messier than anything else (even just going Solo in World-Restructure).

---

Someone else suggested that ANet made some "open alliances", basically one based on each "old world", that anyone could join, with no "leader" (and thus also no one can kick you from). But would still be capped at 500, and if more than 500 people joined it, they'd basically be split in 2 (or more) and sent into World-Restructure as 2 (or more) separate alliances.

I think that's the only plausible idea I've seen so far on the topic.

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@SweetPotato.7456

 

The burden of proof here is on you. That's not mean or trolling that's a fact. Anet is not required to listen to you, or any of us for that matter. 
 

As a few have pointed out here you need to explain yourself more completely. That is assuming you want to be listened to and don't just want to rant. That's perfectly fine, but most people are here for constructive ideas rather than complaints so you won't get as far without some degree of explanation. We aren't mind readers and our ability to extrapolate is limited. 
 

Personally, I don't understand your issue with Alliances. You like people you are paired with. I get that. But you are often re-paired under the current system. I've been paired with Blackgate and Maguuma, Devona's Rest, and the rest. And I've liked people and not liked people. It's not like my server mates have stuck with the server either. I've seen guilds and people I like leave my team. 
 

If you want to play with people consistently the newer system will allow that to happen. More so than our current system. 
 

If you think it won't work out better then I'm all ears for you to explain yourself. I'm not against you. If you are right, I will 100% support you. Because I do want the game to be the best it can be.

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6 minutes ago, saerni.2584 said:

@SweetPotato.7456

 

The burden of proof here is on you. That's not mean or trolling that's a fact. Anet is not required to listen to you, or any of us for that matter. 
 

As a few have pointed out here you need to explain yourself more completely. That is assuming you want to be listened to and don't just want to rant. That's perfectly fine, but most people are here for constructive ideas rather than complaints so you won't get as far without some degree of explanation. We aren't mind readers and our ability to extrapolate is limited. 
 

Personally, I don't understand your issue with Alliances. You like people you are paired with. I get that. But you are often re-paired under the current system. I've been paired with Blackgate and Maguuma, Devona's Rest, and the rest. And I've liked people and not liked people. It's not like my server mates have stuck with the server either. I've seen guilds and people I like leave my team. 
 

If you want to play with people consistently the newer system will allow that to happen. More so than our current system. 
 

If you think it won't work out better then I'm all ears for you to explain yourself. I'm not against you. If you are right, I will 100% support you. Because I do want the game to be the best it can be.

I am not in a court, this is not a trial, I merely suggest to ArenaNet that MAYBE please add something like this in the game for me, I used me because someone nick picked my grammar and then said I should not speak for everyone. 

No one need to vote on this. and I would thank anyone that has better contribution, stop trying to make this what it is not.
Please go argue somewhere else.

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1 hour ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Clarification: I said my account (1) has been on many different servers (approximate 15, don't remember exactly), and on both NA and EU. (Ironically, I've mostly moved servers for PvE, not WvW)

So if ANet made a system, that grouped me with others based on what server I used to be on (before server get removed), I could just as well end up in EU as NA and be separated from my entire guild and friends by getting stuck back on EU again.

A lot of WvW players has moved servers around a lot. A system based on what servers they've been on could very possibly be much messier than anything else (even just going Solo in World-Restructure).

---

Someone else suggested that ANet made some "open alliances", basically one based on each "old world", that anyone could join, with no "leader" (and thus also no one can kick you from). But would still be capped at 500, and if more than 500 people joined it, they'd basically be split in 2 (or more) and sent into World-Restructure as 2 (or more) separate alliances.

I think that's the only plausible idea I've seen so far on the topic.

Well, in that case, that option I wanted clearly isn't for you, It's for me who play on one server on one account loyally, and other account on other server also loyally,  you won't have a problem being placed in random teams.  You can go ahead and pick "surprise me" 

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56 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Well, in that case, that option I wanted clearly isn't for you, It's for me who play on one server on one account loyally, and other account on other server also loyally,  you won't have a problem being placed in random teams.  You can go ahead and pick "surprise me" 

Loyal to the server? You where talking about playing where most of "your people" was.

What we are asking you is how you define "your people" when all players supposed to be faced with the same choices and worlds dont exist.

If it's one of  "your people", do you forcibly join them to the team you got placed in even if they chose random? If they picked a guild do you kick them from their guild so they can play with you? Or do you somehow get to automatically join their alliance/guild regardless of whether they want to or not?

Anet can solve alot of things, but solving how 2+2=Zebra probably isnt one of them. The option that clearly is for you remains... alliances. That's the choice to make. You can probably create it yourself, give it the same name as your current world and voila. Everyone have the choice to join. You get to play with  "your people" because they made that choice. What's the difference from your choices?

Edited by Dawdler.8521
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48 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Loyal to the server? You where talking about playing where most of "your people" was.

What we are asking you is how you define "your people" when all players supposed to be faced with the same choices and worlds dont exist.

If it's one of  "your people", do you forcibly join them to the team you got placed in even if they chose random? If they picked a guild do you kick them from their guild so they can play with you? Or do you somehow get to automatically join their alliance/guild regardless of whether they want to or not?

Anet can solve alot of things, but solving how 2+2=Zebra probably isnt one of them. The option that clearly is for you remains... alliances. That's the choice to make. You can probably create it yourself, give it the same name as your current world and voila. Everyone have the choice to join. You get to play with  "your people" because they made that choice. What's the difference from your choices?

Which alliance the players currently on my server choose is non of my business, It is the sorting system, It needs to sort player like me, who is on their own base on priority,  1) to where most of my people/familiar, and the next and so on. vs currently, during the beta, I had picked my own guild as the WvW guild I wanted to be associated with, I was landed in Moogooloo where they are all strangers. No one was doing anything, no one was responding to anything. It's a whole team of randoms like me, which is actually a serious problem, because how can a team with players who are all like me be on a same team. we didn't have a MAIN TEAM.  The sorting system for roamers/single player guild need to be better because it is not good right now.

Funny of the day was: I tot maybe if I tag up and gather people we might be able to flip that one tower. YES YOU GUESSED IT, NO ONE CAME.

Edited by SweetPotato.7456
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6 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

If you do not know how to do something, you ask someone who knows a lot to do it, in this case they are ArenaNet 
Hence why I am asking ArenaNet for this.


Also, that thing is called a D A T A B  A S E

????
Just because you know the word database means nothing about understanding it...
There's different database types and the way the API works there isn't even evidence that balancing activity will be equal as KDR, caps, playtime, and pips are what is recorded.

They don't know who you "see" often nor whether those people care you are there. What would even be the field in the hypothetical "database"? Realistically you're looking at friendslists (and since friendslists aren't mutual in the system currently this is a problem), alliances, and guilds for tangible inputs in an alliance system.

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1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

????
Just because you know the word database means nothing about understanding it...
There's different database types and the way the API works there isn't even evidence that balancing activity will be equal as KDR, caps, playtime, and pips are what is recorded.

They don't know who you "see" often nor whether those people care you are there. What would even be the field in the hypothetical "database"? Realistically you're looking at friendslists (and since friendslists aren't mutual in the system currently this is a problem), alliances, and guilds for tangible inputs in an alliance system.

Hence why I am asking for someone who knows to do it. Just because you wanted to say something doesn't mean you need to say it.

Edited by SweetPotato.7456
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1 minute ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Hence why I am asking for someone who knows to do it. Just because you wanted to say something doesn't mean you need to say it.

Seeing how I have explored the WVW api in the past, here's a hint:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/API:2/wvw/matches

What you're asking for a is monumental network problem as if you model every "roamer" it grows the calculation exponentially for a network graph. Alliances and guilds allow for a simplified model as you have up to 500 player chunks.

There's also no reason for them to implement this as the whole point of alliances and guilds is to provide a structure to build off. Otherwise it might as well just be a free for all mode.

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