Tier Manipulation - What is the preventive measures taken in the Alliance System

[SweetPotato.7456]

Tier Manipulation is Bad M'kay
 

I would like to request that there is some kind of measures to counter this behaviour and that a penalty is impose.
 

thank you.

[Yuffi.2430]

Are you referring to the situation where servers might not play seriously during a match with the specific aim of either not going up a tier, or to drop down a tier?

As far as I understand, Alliances will see the end of large servers. Teams will be made from more groups and this mix will be changed regularly by ANET with the aim to balance populations. I know of no guarantee that these building bricks will be moved up or down by a single tier. As far as I know, the only promise is to keep allied guilds together (if they stay within the population limit set for an alliance). If the over-riding aim is to balance population then players, guilds and alliances of guilds could be moved to any "tier" as ANET sees fit. 

Also, I wonder whether there will be tiers in the current sense at all? The team names from the beta might be used to establish tiers I guess, but if there is no player choice in where ANET put alliances or guilds then I don't see how there could be a bandwagon or tier manipulation...

It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Mabi black.1824]

here we touch on another delicate topic that somehow needs to be thought out and solved.

you said well does not exist and does not make any sense one up and one down or who wins and who loses ..... in essence it lacks motivation and goal for the player.

 

I suggest building 15 teams  every 6 months. 5 Matches three-way that reset every 2 weeks....... as a result keep one up and one down at each reset and keep a team ranking for 6 months.

every 6 months you deliver the prizes you have first three classified and then you remix everything and build 15 new scquadre and everything starts again.

of course the team is built with alliance + guilds + random players.

would solve a few issues raised by several posts...... belonging to a team ..... competition........ ranking....... rewards.

maybe something similar already provides for the new alliance system .... What do you think?

[joneirikb.7506]

Depends on what you mean with Tier Manipulation?

* Tanking to get out of a tier, or trying to make another server win/lose to get them out of a tier?
* Players trying to stack a server to win a tier?

First one will be somewhat countered by each "Team" will be randomly put together each 2 months, so there won't be a "oh no we're up against Maguma!" moment, at most it will be "Oh no, that alliance is in next weeks opponent." but will only account for 20% max of that team. So players will likely not be as motivated to try to dodge match-ups, at least not in the same manner. Tldr: Each 2 month opponents are fresh, less prejudice to make pre-emptive choices from.

 

Second one will be largely countered by Guild/Alliance max at 500, approximately 20% of an average World/team (estimated at 2500). They can stack that 500, they can't stack the rest of the world/team.

[SweetPotato.7456]

https://ibb.co/60pxc0Z 

This morning after joining a map @ reset, a player on our team said "Thank you everyone who tanked bla bla bla " (can't remember the whole phrase) 

Above is the image of map in wvw on my server now. I am Green Map, this will be the color every day for a whole week because people manipulated the tier. 

This week, I might be able to finally get the - someone called it "Charity Legendary Amulet" NOT ME, I like that we get  free legendary,  Please gib more free legendary thank you. When people tier manipulated, I can get legendary. PvE time!

Edited December 25, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456

[Boh.4568]

All I see is blues going powerPPT during the first night of reset. Where's the tier manipulation? Which corrupted server is the blue one?

[joneirikb.7506]

Well, the obvious answer to that is that World-Restructure will tear such "tanking-match-manipulating" groups apart and spread them around so for the most part they'll be too small to do much about it.

Secondly, since all the opponent servers will also be re-created every 2 months, and they'll use a system to try to get "player hours" as close as possible, there should be less population/play-hours difference between players. So all servers would be much closer in size than they are today, so less opportunity to "seal-clubbing".

[Sleepwalker.1398]

At the moment a NA Tier 1 server is way too strong and with it's link attracting more boon balls, servers with mostly pugs is not gonna work.

 

[enkidu.5937]

On 12/22/2021 at 7:49 AM, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Tier Manipulation is Bad M'kay
 

I would like to request that there is some kind of measures to counter this behaviour and that a penalty is impose.
 

thank you.

Anet plans to delete Worlds. So basically, World vs. World will turn into another EotM. Random teams, K-trains, Guild scrims, and no incentive to win the match. No tiers, no ranks, just fight club for the memes, all day long.

 

Enjoy 😏 😝

[gloflop.3510]

I think that the op raised an interesting point. Adjusting the playing style depending on the future (possible) opponents is in my eyes totally annoying. I either play as good as I can or I simply go out and play. Motivating players to not play so that the server will drop a tier is in my eyes totally wrong.

 

What will now happen with alliances?

Many good points were made already. A single alliance has a limited impact on the score at the end of the week since a single alliance can only have up to 500 players. However, I can imagine that multiple alliances (or guilds) favor dropping a tier (or climbing). So, this problem might continue to exist. Another option is that the enemies are better mixed and unknown. The unknown part is something which I would like to delete straight. Of course not every single player will say openly on which world he/she is. In the contrary, large guilds or alliances will be pretty open about it. If there is a preferred alliance to fight, some players might be interested in climbing or dropping a tier. My overall conclusion is that the problem is mitigated with alliances but it will still exist.

A problem which I see and which was not mentioned yet is that several players have multiple accounts. If they jump from one account to another, it will be hard for anet to create balanced teams. The data on which the world assignment bases on does not account for players playing one a certain account depending on the current matchup. Their data assumes that a player will continue to play in the future like he did in the past (simplified).

 

What could anet do?  I did not find a convincing solution yet. Maybe someone else does.

[lblazer.5381]

1 hour ago, gloflop.3510 said:

I think that the op raised an interesting point. Adjusting the playing style depending on the future (possible) opponents is in my eyes totally annoying. I either play as good as I can or I simply go out and play. Motivating players to not play so that the server will drop a tier is in my eyes totally wrong.

 

What will now happen with alliances?

Many good points were made already. A single alliance has a limited impact on the score at the end of the week since a single alliance can only have up to 500 players. However, I can imagine that multiple alliances (or guilds) favor dropping a tier (or climbing). So, this problem might continue to exist. Another option is that the enemies are better mixed and unknown. The unknown part is something which I would like to delete straight. Of course not every single player will say openly on which world he/she is. In the contrary, large guilds or alliances will be pretty open about it. If there is a preferred alliance to fight, some players might be interested in climbing or dropping a tier. My overall conclusion is that the problem is mitigated with alliances but it will still exist.

A problem which I see and which was not mentioned yet is that several players have multiple accounts. If they jump from one account to another, it will be hard for anet to create balanced teams. The data on which the world assignment bases on does not account for players playing one a certain account depending on the current matchup. Their data assumes that a player will continue to play in the future like he did in the past (simplified).

 

What could anet do?  I did not find a convincing solution yet. Maybe someone else does.

WVW is a 24x7 mode
as long as players can select where they want to go there won't be a balance in numbers
unless queing system on a map will limit based on the lowest number of the enemy on the map, but players won't like that

players will find an excuse just to have an advantage on anything.

only way to balance numbers is to have the queing system same like the pvp mode
saw a thread saying pvp will have 10vs10,15vs15 mode
if a system in that mode will be like the 15vs15 of wow battlegrounds numbers will be balanced, cause if players leave the map numbers get outnumbered the match ends

yes wvw is different mode, that's why numbers won't always be even, players will find a way to take advantage of something 

 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

6 hours ago, lblazer.5381 said:

if a system in that mode will be like the 15vs15 of wow battlegrounds numbers will be balanced, cause if players leave the map numbers get outnumbered the match ends

yes wvw is different mode, that's why numbers won't always be even, players will find a way to take advantage of something 

Yep, 15 bots vs 15 bots would be great assuming there is an observer mode too so we can chill and watch it.

[SweetPotato.7456]

https://ibb.co/ChbMpjw
https://ibb.co/nm8fR6D

 Second day after tanked.
Red came too after blue. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456

[Cyninja.2954]

On 12/25/2021 at 11:46 AM, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Above is the image of map in wvw on my server now. I am Green Map, this will be the color every day for a whole week because people manipulated the tier.

 

People manipulated the tier, and you are still getting destroyed? Highest player hours across most time slots, worst k/d nearly all the time. Guess Tier 3 is the goal now. Careful now, you might end up being the strongest server in Tier 4.

 

https://gw2mists.com/matches/na

 

Don't worry. In the alliance system you'd get re-matched eventually to try your luck with new "allies" free of charge currently.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[SweetPotato.7456]

Meanwhile , this is Tier 1 where my server thinks its so hard to fight, look at how serene the maps is. 

https://ibb.co/jMm8gvL

don't you all feel silly now, tanking.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

tiers have zero worth, why would u care? people avoid tier1 bc its stale and boring... not really for any other reason.

 

that t1 pic says all btw... green ppting day and night and having tons of space, blues barely holding up and reds getting their stuff stolen all the time as well. it's just boring to play with or against servers who focus ppt.

 

it still is often not even anything close to "manipulation", bc a big amount of ppt is uncontrollable. the hardcore ppt people do it anyways, without any reason or real aim, nor with anybody asking them to do so.

[SweetPotato.7456]

3 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

tiers have zero worth, why would u care? people avoid tier1 bc its stale and boring... not really for any other reason.

 

that t1 pic says all btw... green ppting day and night and having tons of space, blues barely holding up and reds getting their stuff stolen all the time as well. it's just boring to play with or against servers who focus ppt.

 

it still is often not even anything close to "manipulation", bc a big amount of ppt is uncontrollable. the hardcore ppt people do it anyways, without any reason or real aim, nor with anybody asking them to do so.

you are off the point so far. 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

tier 1 is worthless. all tiers are in fact equal, just t1 is basically a "stuck" situation. anyone who does not see that, just does not understand the system.

[SweetPotato.7456]

How is tier 1 a stuck situation if all tiers are equal.
If all tier are equal, why do people tank.

Edited December 27, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

How is tier 1 a stuck situation if all tiers are equal.
If all tier are equal, why do people tank.

 

T1 is a stuck situation because if you win, you can't move up. 2 sides are stuck perpetually, usually with strong ppt and numbers, or worse: 1 side is far stronger and the second one is just stuck fighting the same outnumbered opponent for the entire matchup.

 

Any server moving up from Tier 2 to Tier 1 either replaces the weaker of the 2 stuck servers, or drops back down.

 

All other tiers, with exception of T4 in NA and T5 in EU, have constant shifting opponents. Tier 4/5 again has 2 stuck servers.

 

As far as TC tanking: again, you have the numbers advantage nearly the entire time. The server K/D is terrible. IF indeed some players are actively tanking, aka from 1-2 strong guilds refusing to WvW, that is not showing up in the numbers of players participating but only in the lacking fighting strength of active players.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[GoldenPants.1870]

33 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

2 sides are stuck perpetually

Fighting Blackgate for months on end was so kitten bad. Just stuck, nothing new, just BG, BG, BG, only endless BG blobs.

[Evenge.4067]

1 hour ago, GoldenPants.1870 said:

Fighting Blackgate for months on end was so kitten bad. Just stuck, nothing new, just BG, BG, BG, only endless BG blobs.

This.

The current system has allowed for flakey server hoppers to move to the BG link server and stack it just like old times. Currently BG has 35 skirmish wins compared to 1 win each for the other 2 Tier 1 servers (2 days  played so far).

The majority on our tanking server simply wanted a break from the 24/7 BG blob. We had been in Tier 1 for almost 6 months and most wanted a week away from it and you freak about it. You continue to freak about it in our Team chat. It's only for 1 week, get over it. 

We get it. You play OCX/SEA times and don't like the server in Tier 2 that is overloaded in that time zone.  Your pictures only show the maps during your play times. Also it's only been 2 days.

The Alliance system can't come soon enough! Hopefully it fixes the bandwagon problem.  Hopefully it fixes the timezone stacking problem. 

Chill.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 12/25/2021 at 5:50 PM, enkidu.5937 said:

Anet plans to delete Worlds. So basically, World vs. World will turn into another EotM. Random teams, K-trains, Guild scrims, and no incentive to win the match. No tiers, no ranks, just fight club for the memes, all day long.

 

Enjoy 😏 😝

 

 

I can't find the quote right now but I believe the plan was Alliances and then some meaning to winning. Of course that will mean facing the other side of the issue of tanking matches which is the very organized self-built groups versus the random generated groups until they too organize. We might also get right back to the same groups fighting each other if the system works as intended. Either way, until its implemented its an unknown.  

[ArchonWing.9480]

15 hours ago, Evenge.4067 said:

The Alliance system can't come soon enough! Hopefully it fixes the bandwagon problem.  Hopefully it fixes the timezone stacking problem. 

 

At the very least when Alliances come, you'll be able to get away from the whiners and maybe kill them.  🙃

Honestly I wonder why those people even play the game when they flood chat incessantly with their nonsense. Suppose it's my fault for giving them too many chances and just not blocking 'em. It seems like every server has at least one or three.

[Xenesis.6389]

Server I'm linked with made me want to turn off team chat on reset night three weeks in a row. Their scouts are bad, they will link a place, you ask them for numbers they'll link outnumbered, finally after 2 mins and a bunch of nonsense reports later the number might appear.

On 12/26/2021 at 9:06 AM, SweetPotato.7456 said:

https://ibb.co/ChbMpjw
https://ibb.co/nm8fR6D

 Second day after tanked.
Red came too after blue. 

Oh lemme guess linking pics of SoS rampaging with their usual ocx ktrain, nothing new, there's practically no server that can counter that due to the time zone that that stacked for nine years, all their other times are normal.

On 12/27/2021 at 3:45 AM, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Meanwhile , this is Tier 1 where my server thinks its so hard to fight, look at how serene the maps is. 

https://ibb.co/jMm8gvL

don't you all feel silly now, tanking.

Oh yeah BG, with five T3 Keeps and Smc most of the time, and boon blob NA, oh yeah certainly a lot better facing them... 🙄

But yeah let's complain about tanking, when can barely hold on to T2, now enjoy the incoming DH/Mag AR/HoD next week.

EBG won't suck I'm sure... https://i.imgur.com/5aQw4fQ.jpg

 

Pretty sure alliances will be better than these slop tiers....

Edited December 31, 2021 by Xenesis.6389