Painful few dozen hours to start having fun in WvW

[Zikory.6871]

1 minute ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

Well most people aren't going to play only wvw or even this game  for 15 hour/week. Probably realistically say about a little less than an hour a day (so 5 hours per week) .

So assuming 2 levels an hour * 5* 52 = 520 I think.  So Infusion's numbers make a fair bit of sense.

That's fair. So what if that was doubled, using that metric, what if it was 4 ranks per hour? It would get the same effect on masteries plus ranking up for the pip system. 

*Just to be clear, I'm not looking for a wxp buff for all ranks. I'll get 10k in ~2 years and that's fine with me. It just seems the first 500-1000 ranks are the most problematic for the reward system. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

4 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

That's fair. So what if that was doubled, using that metric, what if it was 4 ranks per hour? It would get the same effect on masteries plus ranking up for the pip system. 

*Just to be clear, I'm not looking for a wxp buff for all ranks. I'll get 10k in ~2 years and that's fine with me. It just seems the first 500-1000 ranks are the most problematic for the reward system. 

Well, the problem with faster ranks is that would mean it takes less XP overall for ranks in general, and then people that already have higher ranks may complain. So giving the abilities sooner has the same effect.

 

[Zikory.6871]

2 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well, the problem with faster ranks is that would mean it takes less XP overall for ranks in general, and then people that already have higher ranks may complain. So giving the abilities sooner has the same effect.

 

That's why I was wondering what people thought a fair rank would be. You get +3 pips at 620. +4 at 1395. Say you get a 100% wxp boost until Gold. You are at rank 1394+, got all the masteries. Still have 8k ranks to go. 

Idno, I'm just spit balling ideas. The mount is the only thing I had a strong opinion on lol. 

[Infusion.7149]

Not sure why making ranks faster even entered the picture? That's just a slap in the face to people that did it the long way. You get the same "blues and greens" for rank-ups anyway, it's not like getting 10k WVW rank gets you anything other than a title right now.

I'm pretty sure if you ask any commander if they would be in favor of their squad's members however new being able to use siege properly (which is gated behind masteries), carry supplies as other people, dismount others with warclaw, not run to dead bodies just to loot, and glide full distance. That is unless they want to gatekeep the mode only to people that play it exclusively. That to me is more important than the WvW ranks, how much of a turnoff it is for someone after the first 5 ranks or so to not have most of the abilities on their siege or whatnot.  That is what I believe the topic creator meant by "a few dozen more hours so that you're not a detriment to your team".

Skirmish tracks have been sped up but that doesn't make it more accessible, all it does is handout semi-passive rewards faster. Handing out rewards faster ultimately doesn't garner any long-term players because it doesn't make it more "fun" for people with low ranks, just less time consuming. My first reaction to lowering mistforged armor requirement to 500 (a prestige reward and not necessary for legendary armor) was the same: it used to be something with mistforged armor meant you had maxed WvW masteries without a doubt at least. So that's the second reason the max mastery WvW rank required should be below 500 as that is the threshold set for the prestige reward (along with 350 for Warbringer).

If you think 15 hours a week is a normal playtime then it's going to be skewed such that only people that WvW for most of their playtime will be able to get masteries in a reasonable timeframe. I would use 2 ranks in one day at most as a baseline as that appears as the occasional "daily" for WvW = 730 ranks in a year with no breaks but there's only 261 "working days" in a year.  As Guild Wars 2 is designed as a game where you don't need to do prerequisite things to start having fun (see PVP game mode where you can start whenever and be just as effective) , this is a supreme outlier. Arguably it is worse than fractals because there is a zero AR tier.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Zikory.6871]

33 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

That's just a slap in the face to people that did it the long way.

Who's this hurting? I got at least 2 more years. Why should I care if the first 1000 ranks are faster? It's still going to be long af lmao. 

 

36 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If you think 15 hours a week is a normal playtime

What's even the point of trying to be constructive if people won't read. I play 15, I dno what's normal. I was just asking questions. Anyway, your idea is fine, I just figured new players probably would like some rank progress while also unlocking masteries faster, it all being tied to ranks and all. 

 

But whatever, I don't want to step on veterans past sense of progress. 

[primatos.5413]

Problem with anet mentality they add grind instead of real content.. just give players some crap to do (farm wxp) to keep them playing bcz of missing a real vision for a gamemode (wvw) so.. yeah startin all over is some sort of hard.. but thats the way it is 😄

P.s.: Merry Christmas 🙂

[Silverleaf.4978]

On 12/22/2021 at 3:45 PM, The Boz.2038 said:

Anyone else started WvW "recently", on a fresh account? 
I've had GW2 since early access, but took a long break after S1, and got back last September. Decided to try WvW again this summer. 
And let me tell you, it was painful. You start off with no masteries, no warclaw, and the average player will have no experience or knowledge of the meta, the builds, the strategies.
Sure, you also start off in PvE with no masteries or mounts, but at least that environment is very relaxed, and not made urgent by the "escaping opportunities" for experience, progress, and loot.
First it takes about a dozen hours to get a few QoL things that just barely makes the experience "not pain": gliding, auto-loot, warclaw, etc. A few dozen more hours so that you're not a detriment to your team with the various supply, ballista, etc. abilities (because you firing the catapult with no upgrades is a straight penalty to your team, if the herald next to you could do it with extra damage, conditions, radius, defenses, etc.).

The initial ten hours of a new WvWer's experience are really discouraging. You are getting crap reward track progress, crap experience, crap loot, every death steals *minutes* of your life in just walking around back to an "opportunistic" area, and every now and then something just random happens that you don't even understand. And I pity the even more new guy that doesn't know you're supposed to do this with a WXP guild boost, enrichment, booster, etc. But the initial ten hours of playing a format are *key*, they are the most crucial "will I stick around" period. Is this fun? Is this rewarding? Is this something I like? Does this entire game mode's recruitment strategy begin and end with "you need to do WvW to get a your Gift"?

I can't be alone in feeling like this.

You are DEFINITLY NOT alone in this BUT ... persevering is rewarding & realizing players are on different goals in WvW is key.

There are amazing players that sacrifice personal goals for server goals so ... stick around against all odds.

Anet is on the brink of changing WvW as is. They just might surprise us with all the changes coming in 2022.

[Infusion.7149]

8 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Who's this hurting? I got at least 2 more years. Why should I care if the first 1000 ranks are faster? It's still going to be long af lmao. 

 

What's even the point of trying to be constructive if people won't read. I play 15, I dno what's normal. I was just asking questions. Anyway, your idea is fine, I just figured new players probably would like some rank progress while also unlocking masteries faster, it all being tied to ranks and all. 

 

But whatever, I don't want to step on veterans past sense of progress. 

What if someone is already at 350 or 500 ranks for example, which is ideally the threshold for balance due to Warbringer  /Mistforged armor?

If you increase WXP gain would they get the retroactive amount? How would you prorate that? How would that even work?

Think about that for a second.  If you retroactively reward ranks then you are compressing total WvW ranks. It doesn't solve the root problem of people that maybe play seldomly but still aren't at the WvW rank for maxed mastery. Lowering the thresholds is the fastest and easiest way. It is the same thing that was done with HoT hero point required for elite specs and the purpose is the same: to lower the bar for "having fun" (i.e. unlocking and using to its full potential) with a spec.

Because World ability reset books exist it would be more or less seamless to drop the required WvW ranks for masteries. Obviously some should be prioritized such as Warclaw, gliding, and autoloot (which as I mentioned above should be the first tier of Provision Master especially since Skirmish Track boxes rewards traps/tricks and the food/utility is generally unwanted).

If you just increase WxP gain it just means people that play more get the masteries faster, it doesn't help the people that have dabbled in the mode prior but aren't yet 1226 WvW ranks.

[Zikory.6871]

44 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Think about that for a second.

Nope, didn't think about retroactive wxp because my idea was to just add a wxp buff to those lower rank tiers. Not adjust rank xp amounts. 

 

18 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Say you get a 100% wxp boost until Gold. You are at rank 1394+, got all the masteries. Still have 8k ranks to go.

Dope, you played up to rank 500. Now you get a buff till gold. If the argument is for people above that, that didn't get the buff...petty just like being against default warclaws. 

If 500 is the rank most people are aiming for, for Warbringer  /Mistforged armor. If said players goal is rewards, maxing masteries probably isn't a main focus so they get to 500 faster for rewards and still have a buff to 1394 to max masteries. How fast is a anet thing, idno what they want or whats fair. 

Are veteran players really hurting for wxp boosts? Birthday boosters, food/guild/amulet, goblers... I've basically had a base 150%+ wxp since 2017 lol. 

Whatever works. Everything is already tied to ranks, why not get them hooked with some inflated wxp gains. They can suffer with the rest of use after silver.

[Infusion.7149]

2 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Nope, didn't think about retroactive wxp because my idea was to just add a wxp buff to those lower rank tiers. Not adjust rank xp amounts. 

 

Dope, you played up to rank 500. Now you get a buff till gold. If the argument is for people above that, that didn't get the buff...petty just like being against default warclaws. 

If 500 is the rank most people are aiming for, for Warbringer  /Mistforged armor. If said players goal is rewards, maxing masteries probably isn't a main focus so they get to 500 faster for rewards and still have a buff to 1394 to max masteries. How fast is a anet thing, idno what they want or whats fair. 

Are veteran players really hurting for wxp boosts? Birthday boosters, food/guild/amulet, goblers... I've basically had a base 150%+ wxp since 2017 lol. 

Whatever works. Everything is already tied to ranks, why not get them hooked with some inflated wxp gains. They can suffer with the rest of use after silver.

But you see my point though? The majority of people that are not in WVW already are rewards driven, they will only dabble in it. Hence we have afkers in spawn for skirmish tickets and such.

Unless you can make the utility portion of ranks lower than rewards it's a failure of the mastery system.

Mistforged armor rank dropping to 500 was not a well thought out change if they were to keep the mastery requirement at 1226 since it was a fast and easy way to tell if someone has the proper masteries when they get on siege.

[Zikory.6871]

6 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

But you see my point though? The majority of people that are not in WVW already are rewards driven, they will only dabble in it. Hence we have afkers in spawn for skirmish tickets and such.

No, I don't see your point. We will always have people looking for low effort ways to obtain tickets because it take 30+ hours for diamond for some people. 

I didn't argue against reducing the 1226, that's fine if that's what anet wants to do idc. You suggested 308? sure, still get to play over burn out level hours to finish the reward system in the game mode. How long does it take a new player to finish bronze chest? Is it a enjoyable experience for new players? I defiantly didn't enjoy gearing out a few alts and I had my main to supplement it. 

But meh, our ideas are pretty clear. We'll see what anet does after EoD. 

[Infusion.7149]

10 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

No, I don't see your point. We will always have people looking for low effort ways to obtain tickets because it take 30+ hours for diamond for some people. 

I didn't argue against reducing the 1226, that's fine if that's what anet wants to do idc. You suggested 308? sure, still get to play over burn out level hours to finish the reward system in the game mode. How long does it take a new player to finish bronze chest? Is it a enjoyable experience for new players? I defiantly didn't enjoy gearing out a few alts and I had my main to supplement it. 

But meh, our ideas are pretty clear. We'll see what anet does after EoD. 

If the reward WVW level is 500/350 whatever it is and the UTILITY WvW rank is lower then casual players don't care about whether it is lower than the UTILITY level as you stated yourself ("if they're playing for rewards maxed masteries isn't their focus"). They will go on about their business and complain it takes too long either way.

By lowering the  UTILITY level (i.e. the masteries) it benefits the players that are actually there for WvW purposes indirectly because you won't have as many players tagging along that don't have max masteries. It's a benefit to the mode to reduce the UTILITY level instead of increasing WXP gain for low ranks because that has a minimal amount of effect for people already invested in WVW in some fashion.

You're probably thinking, "you're 2K+ rank why do you even care?" The reason is several players I know that have recently (as in past year or so) made alts on my server are way below 1226 right now and even if they are experienced in WvW they joke that they don't even have cata mastery or whatnot. It isn't funny to the rest of the people they're playing with. The idea that people are going to run full boosters on their alts is out of the question more or less.
 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Zikory.6871]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If the reward WVW level is 500/350 whatever it is and the UTILITY WvW rank is lower then casual players don't care about whether it is lower than the UTILITY level as you stated yourself ("if they're playing for rewards maxed masteries isn't their focus"). They will go on about their business and complain it takes too long either way.

By lowering the  UTILITY level (i.e. the masteries) it benefits the players that are actually there for WvW purposes indirectly because you won't have as many players tagging along that don't have max masteries. It's a benefit to the mode to reduce the UTILITY level instead of increasing WXP gain for low ranks because that has a minimal amount of effect for people already invested in WVW in some fashion.

You're probably thinking, "you're 2K+ rank why do you even care?" The reason is several players I know that have recently (as in past year or so) made alts on my server are way below 1226 right now and even if they are experienced in WvW they joke that they don't even have cata mastery or whatnot. It isn't funny to the rest of the people they're playing with. The idea that people are going to run full boosters on their alts is out of the question more or less.
 

Not really, Im 6k+ and my alts have warclaw and autoloot. Why do I care? I want long term goals, I thought the mistforge nerf for a skin was dumb. And honestly, they whole game is flooded with boosters, it's actually part how to play the game at this point. 

Ty for spelling it out for me. Again, don't have a argument against it. I don't understand why it has to be either/or. And I don't see how reducing the "utility level" is any different then boosting early ranks. I mean, giving them a 300%+ boost to compare to your 308 suggestion would be ridiculous but that goes back to what I was talking to ArchonWing about, What's a realistic time frame for players to play WvW? 

Warclaw 91 up to the detection skill. Gliding full 60. Autoloot 20. 35 for cata +damage. 20 for rams. 226 not fair rank to be useful? 

Again, don't care. Give everyone all the masteries or make the ones you deem "not funny to not have" default. Fine with me. 

[Infusion.7149]

It doesn't really matter what I think is a "realistic time frame" because we have a dataset on gw2efficiency that suggests even 200 ranks is too high for majority of playerbase:
https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.wvwRank

• 500-1000 hours on account : 345 is top 1%
• 1000 hours - 2000 hours on account : 815 is top 1%
• 2K-4K hours: 760 is top 10%
• 4K+ hours: 532 is top half

Longterm WvW goals should be achievements, rewards/titles/items not functionality.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[The Boz.2038]

The game has had the issue several times. They always compensated you for stuff. You aren't discovering a unique new problem with this observation.

[Zikory.6871]

Sounds like a WXP problem to me anyway. Maybe we are both wrong and adding more ways to get WXP is the better route. 

[joneirikb.7506]

34 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The idea that people are going to run full boosters on their alts is out of the question more or less.

I do like your suggestion about reducing the cost of the WXPmasteries, and think ANet seriously should consider at the very least doing that for the 3 said masteries you mentioned (warclaw, glider, autoloot). 

When I mentioned the idea about faster WXP gain at certain ranks earlier, it was mostly at the idea of replacing the boosters, because I do find it dumb/silly that playing with a booster/consumable is basically assumed on new players.

So theoretically, without changes my suggestion would have been to rapidly increase wxp gain until you hit silver (more than the booster), and then no bonus after you hit silver (slower than now since you wouldn't be able to use boosters).

Hitting silver I feel you have enough mastery points (620) to get what you need while still having to make some choices, and also get a few extra bonus pips. The main advantage over changing all the mastery values is that it's probably even easier to implement, doesn't devalue high cost masteries (still agree mount, glider, autoloot should be like 1 point each at start of their lines).

I think there are value in both suggestions.

[Xenesis.6389]

What the hell is going on in here? Why are you guys arguing over rank compression? There is absolutely no need to screw with ranks.

 

Just add more boosters like the week event, which would benefit everyone, no need to screw with the ranks to try and appease newbies who think numbers are too big.

 

If you want to lower mastery, then reduce the points required to fill them, but I don't know why people think you need to max out mastery to function in wvw. 600 out of the 1226 are for siege, when your zerg of 25 goes to capture something, do they set down a piece of siege for every single person? You don't ever have to have the siege mastery when plenty of veterans are around to operate them. Why are people stressing over this?

 

You only need 24 points to function in wvw, 1 for mount, 3 for gliding, 20 for autoloot, THAT'S IT, everything else is bonus.

 

Why the hell are we constantly stripping away long term goals of wvw to appease casual and newbie pve players that only come into wvw for the gift or legendary then leave? I'd much rather they take gift of battle out of wvw if anything and get rid of most of these complaints, if they don't want to bother with wvw and it's rewards and goals then gtfo.

[Infusion.7149]

^ My suggestion would benefit those that play sporadically (which let's face it, that is how GW2 is designed due to Living Story), whereas making WXP gain quicker for new ranks would only benefit people starting after now and could potentially take months if not years to achieve full benefit to the playerbase.

Being able to use a catapult to its full potential or a mortar is not a "longterm goal" lol. To suggest otherwise is pretty hilarious.

P.S. Gliding is 60 points right now if you intend to ever play on desert map. It's the only way to make the glide from southwest spawn to fire keep.
* So is 166 for dismounting people with lance on warclaw, which I consider a basic function unless you only zerg all day.
* 20 for autoloot in Provisioner
Total is well over 200 ranks. Bronze is at 150.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Zikory.6871]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

whereas making WXP gain

Guy, way not both? Starting to feel like you have a ulterior motive against wxp gains. 

[Xenesis.6389]

30 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

^ My suggestion would benefit those that play sporadically (which let's face it, that is how GW2 is designed due to Living Story), whereas making WXP gain quicker for new ranks would only benefit people starting after now and could potentially take months if not years to achieve full benefit to the playerbase.

Being able to use a catapult to its full potential or a mortar is not a "longterm goal" lol. To suggest otherwise is pretty hilarious.

P.S. Gliding is 60 points right now if you intend to ever play on desert map. It's the only way to make the glide from southwest spawn to fire keep.
* So is 166 for dismounting people with lance on warclaw, which I consider a basic function unless you only zerg all day.
* 20 for autoloot in Provisioner
Total is well over 200 ranks. Bronze is at 150.

 

Are you sitting on catapults and mortar 100% of the time you're in wvw? Not like it matters most of the idiots that sit on catapults can't even be bothered to hit the shield at the right time or at all anyways, that's while coms have to built shield gens too to cover for the moron operators.

 

Why do I care to dismount one person? like wvw doesn't have enough targets around to kill? you have to cry about having 166 points just to dismount some rando you're desperate to kill? desperate much?

You can walk, run, mount, into the keeps, gliding isn't required, it isn't the only way to get there, it's a convenience.

Are the pve masteries hilarious too? maybe we should just ask anet to take out all masteries cause it's a hilarious inconvenience to you. Speaking of full potential, is playing from level 1 without all your traits and skills hilarious too? maybe we should ask anet to just instant level us to 80 with everything unlocked. Hell man let's just have them hand over every feature as soon as you enter your visa to buy the game, then you only need to stress about farming rewards as fast as possible in a circle.

 

Your hilarious argument is what's hilarious here.

"Just like your hilarious retort." - your hilarious response I'm sure.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Xenesis.6389

[Infusion.7149]

59 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

Are you sitting on catapults and mortar 100% of the time you're in wvw? Not like it matters most of the idiots that sit on catapults can't even be bothered to hit the shield at the right time or at all anyways, that's while coms have to built shield gens too to cover for the moron operators.

 

Why do I care to dismount one person? like wvw doesn't have enough targets around to kill? you have to cry about having 166 points just to dismount some rando you're desperate to kill? desperate much?

You can walk, run, mount, into the keeps, gliding isn't required, it isn't the only way to get there, it's a convenience.

Are the pve masteries hilarious too? maybe we should just ask anet to take out all masteries cause it's a hilarious inconvenience to you. Speaking of full potential, is playing from level 1 without all your traits and skills hilarious too? maybe we should ask anet to just instant level us to 80 with everything unlocked. Hell man let's just have them hand over every feature as soon as you enter your visa to buy the game, then you only need to stress about farming rewards as fast as possible in a circle.

 

Your hilarious argument is what's hilarious here.

"Just like your hilarious retort." - your hilarious response I'm sure.

For someone that is adamantly against "k-training boon blobs" per your signature you sure seem against giving more players lance.

PvE masteries to open essence chests were complained about by major streamers including many people in the community that exclusively PvE. Most other things aren't necessary whatsoever to do content as it is released or get rewards from said content.

You need to have at least one lvl 60 to enter WvW the first time, which means the built in scaling for exotics that current exists is more effective.

What does entering a visa have to do with masteries?

Do you really think WvW is about leveling masteries?

Should they balance around people not knowing how to use the bubble on catapults rather than standardizing it down so more people have it?

The definition of a goal:  the object of a person's ambition or effort; an aim or desired result. Being able to use a cata properly therefore is not a valid "goal" in WvW if it is to be in a healthy state whatsoever. Are you going to tell prospective players "come WVW so you can level masteries to do WVW"?

Edited December 24, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Shroud.2307]

2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

Why the hell are we constantly stripping away long term goals of wvw

There are plenty of long term goals in Achievements. I don't think gating any form of Mastery is really necessary beyond short term progress. These things didn't exist pre-expacs when WvW was balanced differently - now, it is significantly more punishing to be not only a new player, but new to WvW. Your rewards are worse, you're slow and will struggle to stay with the zerg, and you'll be scolded for using siege by other players because they can see that you don't have mastery.

Personally, I don't think ranks should have anything to do with rewards. Visibility of your experience is plenty enough - it shows how long you've been around or how much you've played.

And Mastery ranks don't need to be high either. Enough to keep new players feeling like they're making some form of progress, but not so much that it feels like a grind or a long term goal. Once they understand what's going on the Mastery junk just feels like being patronized.
"Good job! You can now spend 6, up from 4(!) supplies when repairing! Congratulations!"

Edited December 24, 2021 by Shroud.2307

[Xenesis.6389]

Why are you playing a rpg game if you want no progression?

 

I have nothing against the lance, but it's not required, you can just as well take someone off the mount with plain damage.

You don't need gliding, not even in desert, how did you think people got around the desert map before gliding was even introduced? it is not required to play, just a helpful tool for shortcuts. Do you really go around telling new players they need 60 points in gliding to enter fire keep?

 

My problem is where players like you are trying to draw the line on what is required to properly function in the game mode. You do not need siege masteries nor a lot of the other ones, you can go entire hours, days, weeks without needing to sit on a piece of siege, and even if you do you can still use their basic skills, if siege was entirely locked behind masteries then we might have a slightly different story. Plus you are not the only one in the game mode, there's plenty of others around you to use siege. You don't have to tell new players that 1226 points are required before they can be a real player in wvw, you are the one telling players they need a bunch of masteries to do wvw, when in fact you only need 24 points to get 3 QOL things to function at the basic level of everyone else. Of which at this point I think those QOL should be freely given and not needing masteries to use.

 

Goals and progression in rpg games are partly there to teach you about the game and mechanics. People lose interest in something if they see there's no progression, whether that's in their own skills or the growth of their own characters by rewards, gear, skills, perks, traits, talents, etc. Winning already means nothing in wvw, do you really want to continue stripping away other progressions for wvw? Do you really just want to make wvw about rewards and that's it?

 

A goal is something you aim for, something you put time into to progress and eventually complete, they come in many different forms and range of importance, getting max catapult mastery is a goal, not an important one, but a side one that you can get eventually. It's the same going to a fps shooter and you're using a gun, you get upgrades, you even get experience to get better stats on the gun, there's a goal for a person to progress and achieve there.

 

I don't need to tell players to come to wvw to level masteries because I'm not the one thinking they're so important you need them all to even play wvw. Leveling masteries is a goal, but not the one and only thing to do or play for in wvw.

[Xenesis.6389]

1 minute ago, Shroud.2307 said:

There are plenty of long term goals in Achievements. I don't think gating any form of Mastery is really necessary beyond short term progress. These things didn't exist pre-expacs when WvW was balanced differently - now, it is significantly more punishing to be not only a new player, but new to WvW. Your rewards are worse, you're slow and will struggle to stay with the zerg, and you'll be scolded for using siege by other players because they can see that you don't have mastery.

Personally, I don't think ranks should have anything to do with rewards. Visibility of your experience is plenty enough - it shows how long you've been around or how much you've played.

And Mastery ranks don't need to be high either. Enough to keep new players feeling like they're making some form of progress, but not so much that it feels like a grind or a long term goal. Once they understand what's going on the Mastery junk just feels like being patronized.
"Good job! You can now spend 6, up from 4(!) supplies when repairing! Congratulations!"

I have finished 99% of the achievements because they too were reduced. What now? Achievement are also fluff goals that are pretty meaningless to me in the first place, a bunch of titles that you can't even display in wvw and only see when you target someone? whoopdeedoo. Title I'm using these days isn't even from wvw.

 

I don't think they should be gating 3 QOL things in wvw, the mount, gliding, autoloot. That I think we can all agree on.

 

So they should strip out rank masteries for qol, siege, rewards as in pips? mistforged skins?, legendary backpiece?

 

What's left? legendary pieces that people clamoring takes too long too?

 

What rank do you guys think people should be done with wvw altogether? 350? 500?

 

Whatever I'm going back to read mode.