Are Elementalists supposed to be "Mages"?

[greedywholesome.9081]

I've been playing this pvp game from steam called Arena of Kings and it has a mage class called Wizard. During the intro, the devs suggest one play the easier classes similar to the ranger and guard of GW2. I chose the wizard despite it being labeled hard because I've always loved playing casters that do tremendous aoe damage and CC in exchange for being glassy. 

 

I do love GW2 elementalist but I feel their job/role is more fitting working at the Four Seasons Hotel. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by greedywholesome.9081
Grammatical error - from they're to their

[moony.5780]

Unluckily, elementalists are not like all other mages in other games. The staff used to be like it in the past, but it got nerfed too hard.

Eles are more like jummping battlemages. It is very much fun, but other classes can have more powerful AOE, because ele need to do 10 skills instead of 2, to do the same dmg.

[greedywholesome.9081]

21 minutes ago, moony.5780 said:

Unluckily, elementalists are not like all other mages in other games. The staff used to be like it in the past, but it got nerfed too hard.

Eles are more like jummping battlemages. It is very much fun, but other classes can have more powerful AOE, because ele need to do 10 skills instead of 2, to do the same dmg.

 

Hi Moony, I remember the glory days of the staff ele. 

When the courtyard pvp map first came out, I sported staff ele it consistently did over 1M dmg each round. 

 

Right on w/ the battle mage concept. I see many threads here about how difficult the class is to master but on the upside, its gameplay and constant practice would make one mechanically superior when playing a different class. I multi-class and have a soft spot for casters/light armored classes except necro. 

[Jski.6180]

There no real magic in gw2 you have physical attks that are look like magic. The cloeset thing to magic in gw2 would be condi dmg and ele only has 2 condi dmg type bleed (the weakest condi in the game) and burning (a good condi just not on its own).

There no fire attk lighting attks no "earth" attk and no water/ice attk there even no "magic" attks (in some games there a split in dmg physical and magic gw2 dose not even have that.)

Ele will never feel like a true wizard because of the lack of magic dmg.

[Artemis.8034]

Im upset i bought this game only to find out there are no ranged mage like classes. When they clearly show magic casters in the previews. But everything is melee, even the casters. They are tone deaf to the players, i have seen many posting on ranged caster for elementalist , but looking at all the elite specs and reading what people say its all melee. To me that means they dont know how to balance a game properly, where is the variety, the class fantasy? Stack here and swing weapon ----> just isnt going to make me happy its awkward and boring.

[Howluffu.7259]

They should buff STAFF to be at same level as other weapons so we can at least do more or less the same damage and feel like we are casters. Beautiful staves skins and you can't even wear them as a caster(to bonk with dd or heal with druid/fb is not the same).

Waiting for incoming message: "you can wield it as mesmer".

 

I want to toss giant fireballs with a staff and feel powerful not neutered...

[Infusion.7149]

You can play staff as DPS in WVW.
In PVE staff is balanced to be lower sustained damage than scepter which is in turn generally lower sustained DPS than dagger. As such it is generally ran as a support weapon in PVE.

[draxynnic.3719]

Elementalist is still described as 'favours ranged' in character creation, and otherwise described as if it is supposed to be a mage. ArenaNet really needs to either put up (supporting that theme properly) or shut up (changing the description in character creation so new players don't get the wrong idea).

[Artemis.8034]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Elementalist is still described as 'favours ranged' in character creation, and otherwise described as if it is supposed to be a mage. ArenaNet really needs to either put up (supporting that theme properly) or shut up (changing the description in character creation so new players don't get the wrong idea).

No kidding, im so sad that ranged isnt really an option here.

[Infusion.7149]

10 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

No kidding, im so sad that ranged isnt really an option here.

Example in action:

 

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Example in action:

 

First time i watched your post videos non of them are ranged.

[Infusion.7149]

@Jski.6180

From description : "Pretty nice build considering your entire damage is ranged (except transmute fire aura). "
and then you post "none of them are ranged" ...
They're in melee for boons, but it doesn't make the build melee. That's like saying condi scourge is a melee build.

see

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Jski.6180]

10 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

@Jski.6180

From description : "Pretty nice build considering your entire damage is ranged (except transmute fire aura). "
and then you post "none of them are ranged" ...
They're in melee for boons, but it doesn't make the build melee. That's like saying condi scourge is a melee build.

see

 

Well right that is the issues ele as a class realty should not be in melee ranged even for the boons its a "mage" but because it cant generate its own boons it must stand in the melee ball to get support. All at a massive higher risk then any other class in the game.

The stances only is 240 ranged too so its melee too sadly.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Infusion.7149]

2 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Well right that is the issues ele as a class realty should not be in melee ranged even for the boons its a "mage" but because it cant generate its own boons it must stand in the melee ball to get support. All at a massive higher risk then any other class in the game.

So does scourge or condi shortbow soulbeast. That is a nonissue unless you want to be a meme offtag in Narnia doing your own thing.

Of course you keep moving the goalposts. 🤣

Edited December 25, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

So does scourge or condi shortbow soulbeast. That is a nonissue unless you want to be a meme offtag in Narnia doing your own thing.

Of course you keep moving the goalposts. 🤣

They are much higher hp classes?

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

They are much higher hp classes?

Exactly, you keep moving the goalposts to suit your agenda.

[Jski.6180]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Exactly, you keep moving the goalposts to suit your agenda.

Your using a lot of buzz words i am not sure if your here for a chat about ele at this point.

Look i am sry if you dont like it but if your at melee ranged of a mob for boons support etc.. yet your the "mage" class your playing a mages class with all of the risk of an mages as if your an melee class. It comply negates the very ideal of what a "mage" is. This is not moving any thing this is not an agenda this is the simple fact that this game has NO mages in it.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Infusion.7149]

6 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Your using a lot of buzz words i am not sure if your here for a chat about ele at this point.

Look i am sry if you dont like it but if your at melee ranged of a mob for boons support etc.. yet your the "mage" class your playing a mages class with all of the risk of an mages as if your an melee class. It comply negates the very ideal of what a "mage" is. This is not moving any thing this is not an agenda this is the simple fact that this game has NO mages in it.

"A magician, also known as a enchanter/enchantress, mage, magic-user, sorcerer/sorceress, spell-caster, warlock, witch, or wizard, is someone who uses or practices magic derived from supernatural, occult, or arcane sources."  - wikipedia

Guess what , all light armor classes fit that.

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

"A magician, also known as a enchanter/enchantress, mage, magic-user, sorcerer/sorceress, spell-caster, warlock, witch, or wizard, is someone who uses or practices magic derived from supernatural, occult, or arcane sources."  - wikipedia

Guess what , all light armor classes fit that.

One could even say gurd fits that as well. In other games they use "magic" to lat hits and this magic has propitious that are different then say an arrow or an sword hit. Even in the most simple ideal of "magic" it is energy not a physical hit. In gw2 there is NO energy attks its all physical. There is no magic in gw2.

What is there left to call something a mages or not then just the light armor class because in this game magic is just the animations of the skill not the skills effect. Its all made worst with the ideal of boon stacking in any game type where your lower hp / def is nothing more then a pure weakness with no pay off. There a lot of things wrong with this game for balancing but to call ele a mages and playing an ele like an mages is pure roll playing. Ele is not an mages.

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

One could even say gurd fits that as well. In other games they use "magic" to lat hits and this magic has propitious that are different then say an arrow or an sword hit. Even in the most simple ideal of "magic" it is energy not a physical hit. In gw2 there is NO energy attks its all physical. There is no magic in gw2.

What is there left to call something a mages or not then just the light armor class because in this game magic is just the animations of the skill not the skills effect. Its all made worst with the ideal of boon stacking in any game type where your lower hp / def is nothing more then a pure weakness with no pay off. There a lot of things wrong with this game for balancing but to call ele a mages and playing an ele like an mages is pure roll playing. Ele is not an mages.

"There is no magic in GW2"  is your opinion

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic

If they separate "magic" damage from "physical damage' then you just would have more armor stats to deal with. It is meaningless unless you want to nitpick and the whole point of the thread was range/caster.

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

"There is no magic in GW2"  is your opinion

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic

If they separate "magic" damage from "physical damage' then you just would have more armor stats to deal with. It is meaningless unless you want to nitpick and the whole point of the thread was range/caster.

Or you could give "mages" classes armor penetration where there attks for having low armor as classes do higher dmg vs higher armor classes. That an issues of balancing though more then any thing else. To say there is a real different between a scepter 1 air and say bow 1 on ranger where one is magic and the other is not is just silly.

Your not casting and your not attking at a range.

[Infusion.7149]

2 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Or you could give "mages" classes armor penetration where there attks for having low armor as classes do higher dmg vs higher armor classes. That an issues of balancing though more then any thing else. To say there is a real different between a scepter 1 air and say bow 1 on ranger where one is magic and the other is not is just silly.

Your not casting and your not attking at a range.

You do know there is projectile reflect right?


Vulnerability is effectively "armor penetration" and conditions ignore armor, so the above condi scepter weaver fits that description
 

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You do know there is projectile reflect right?


Vulnerability is effectively "armor penetration" and conditions ignore armor, so the above condi scepter weaver fits that description
 

Ok fine lets make all "magic" non projectiles then i would love that a lot of ppl would love that. What do we do for melee sword etc.. attks?

A lot of classes have vulnerability there needs to be something more about magic attks that some how gives better dmg for the risk of being an mages.

It would be nice if condi where pure magic classes effects but a lot of the "non mages" classes have stronger condis then the mages classes. But in gw2 it is as close as you can get to "magic" dmg type. Maybe we can have fire balls set things on fire and lighting cause electrical burning and ice cause frost bit (what torment use to be before torment was added in).

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

It feels like you're confusing technical term of mages with the fantasy term. In MMOs, the technical term is always used--a squishy player with access to lots of skills, usually with high cast times and/or other tradeoff like mana cost.

 

The mechanical mage trades off the ability to just facetank everything like a melee would in exchange for being able to either lay down some serious damage, CC, or support the team and are generally a priority to target in battles.

 

Ele fits the bar perfectly.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Kain Francois.4328]

58 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

@Jski.6180

From description : "Pretty nice build considering your entire damage is ranged (except transmute fire aura). "
and then you post "none of them are ranged" ...
They're in melee for boons, but it doesn't make the build melee. That's like saying condi scourge is a melee build.

see

 

Good effort trying to convince people.

However, you cannot convince those who argue in bad faith, and refuse to acknowledge balance and video evidence.

Many people complain with an ulterior motive. They believe by leaving dishonest feedback, they can mislead and nudge balance into giving them certain buffs, and weapon choices.

Others simply cannot accept when they simply fail at a class, so they blame balance instead, as a a coping mechanism.

Some simply have an internal roleplay they want to force onto the game. Such as the whole argument about Ele not being "mage"-enough, since some people want to replicate a carbon copy of their childhood experiences from other games. (Like those who insist on calling Ranger "Hunter" and blasting it for not having Rifle, like a certain other game...)

Edited December 25, 2021 by Kain Francois.4328